Who knew that such a "mixed" group concerning vax would be so "pro" sedation?

[Pegasus]

I'm a strong believer in vaccinations and my DC have received all of theirs on the suggested schedule (with the exception of the new HPV vaccine which we are waiting a few years). I've read the mixed opinions on vaccinations on this board and have been very interested in hearing the different viewpoints.

 

So, I was a bit surprised on a recent dentist thread for the opinion to be overwhelmingly pro sedation of children for routine dental work. I was the only one who voiced that I would use that only as a last resort. I'd try other things first, such as progressive exposure.

 

It just hit me as odd.

 

Pegasus

[Mrs Mungo]

Sedation (except in extremely rare cases) only affects them for a short while. We don't yet know in what all ways the massive amount of vaccinating we do affects the immune system and such. There's a world of difference.

[Pegasus]

Oh, yes! I agree there is a world of difference. But, my views are completely reversed. I see vax as critical to the health of my children while sedation as a "first choice" is needlessly risky.

 

Pegasus

[mcconnellboys]

As far as I know, the meds administered by the dentist do not contain thimerasol and are not given in such large doses or to such young patients that their bodies cannot handle the substance. Does neurotoxicity result from administration of any meds used for dental work? That would be news to me.... Now, I know that there are still some dentists around who may be using inappropriate filling materials that can leach mercury, because someone locally has just recently discussed this with me, but I believe that's been pretty much eradicated from the dental scene......

[Pegasus]

Since 2001, with the exception of some influenza (flu) vaccines, thimerosal is not used as a preservative in routinely recommended childhood vaccines.

 

5 minutes spent on Google turned up several heart-breaking stories related to the use of sedation on children by dentists. I DO believe that dire results are rare. But why not try other things first? That's why I was surprised by the posts.

 

Pegasus

[snickelfritz]

The child had already freaked out at the dentists office. Didn't she need fillings? I could be wrong there, but I thought I remembered that.

 

sedation as a "first choice" is needlessly risky

 

We are working through the progressive exposure method and it is getting better. We have worked up to the female hygenist doing a cleaning and the male dentist looking at her teeth (all on my lap.) No x-rays, yet. She's stopped her hysterical crying when the dentist comes around the corner.

 

At this point, if the dentist said that my dd needed a filling or a tooth pulled.....we would have to do sedation. I don't think we would have the time to work up to a filling. It's taken us over a year to work up to where we are now.

 

Now, my dd has been through 8 out-patient, total sedation via gas-mask procedures, so I may be more comfortable with the idea than most.

[Mrs Mungo]

Oh, yes! I agree there is a world of difference. But, my views are completely reversed. I see vax as critical to the health of my children while sedation as a "first choice" is needlessly risky.

 

Pegasus

 

Not to pick on you but do you believe that receiving the Hepatitis B vaccine, a blood-borne disease, is critical to the health of your young children? Are they IV drug users? Are they getting tattoos? I'm not trying to be snarkyby putting a little levity into it but I put a *lot* of research and thought into skipping certain vaccinations. It's not a decision I came to lightly. I hold their health in as high regard as you do the health of your children.

 

I don't think 5 minutes of googling tells the full story of sedation. What kind of sedation? Which medicaitons are more likely to lead to tragedy?Under what circumstances? What led to the tragedies? How do we work to avoid those issues? I don't believe in being a reactionary.

[Mallorie]

LOL....five minutes on google can turn up a TON of freaky, scary things. What were your search terms?

 

Why not try other things first concerning vaccines? Heck, when you consider most things we jump to use in this "modern" time of ours, it is scary.

[Mallorie]

Oops, hit post too quickly, I have one more question.

 

I see vax as critical to the health of my children

 

Not trying to start an argument, it's pure curiosity, but could you expound on this a bit? What does it contribute exactly to the health of your children?

 

FWIW, I have a friend whose children were fully vaxed. They still got whooping cough. And severe food allergies, eczema and asthma. What then?

[Pegasus]

Not to pick on you but do you believe that receiving the Hepatitis B vaccine, a blood-borne disease, is critical to the health of your young children? Are they IV drug users? Are they getting tattoos? I'm not trying to be snarkyby putting a little levity into it but I put a *lot* of research and thought into skipping certain vaccinations. It's not a decision I came to lightly. I hold their health in as high regard as you do the health of your children.

 

I don't think 5 minutes of googling tells the full story of sedation. What kind of sedation? Which medicaitons are more likely to lead to tragedy?Under what circumstances? What led to the tragedies? How do we work to avoid those issues? I don't believe in being a reactionary.

 

Nothing wrong with a little levity. :001_smile: Honestly, I've read many of the vaccination threads on this board and have been exposed to the wide variation in opinions. I have high regard for any well informed parent making their own choices. I do believe many (not necessarily on this board!) parents refusing vax are being reactionary, to use your well chosen word.

 

I certainly didn't mean to imply that my 5-minute of googling was exhaustive. Simply that sedation is not risk-free and even cursory research shows the very real (if remote) risk.

 

If one of my DC needed sedation, I wouldn't have much fear for their safety. However, if I wouldn't jump at the chance to sedate them if I thought I could avoid it.

 

Pegasus

[Pegasus]

The child had already freaked out at the dentists office. Didn't she need fillings? I could be wrong there, but I thought I remembered that.

 

 

 

We are working through the progressive exposure method and it is getting better. We have worked up to the female hygenist doing a cleaning and the male dentist looking at her teeth (all on my lap.) No x-rays, yet. She's stopped her hysterical crying when the dentist comes around the corner.

 

At this point, if the dentist said that my dd needed a filling or a tooth pulled.....we would have to do sedation. I don't think we would have the time to work up to a filling. It's taken us over a year to work up to where we are now.

 

Now, my dd has been through 8 out-patient, total sedation via gas-mask procedures, so I may be more comfortable with the idea than most.

 

Yes, you remember correctly. She did need a couple fillings and she had been hysterically crying at the dentist. It may very well be that she will need to be sedated. I was only surprised at amount of pro sedation comments without much other advise offered.

 

I'm glad to hear that your DD is improving with the progressive exposure, even if it is slow. :001_smile:

 

Pegasus

[Mrs Mungo]

If one of my DC needed sedation, I wouldn't have much fear for their safety. However, if I wouldn't jump at the chance to sedate them if I thought I could avoid it.

 

FWIW, I told the story of my daughter freaking out? Yeah, she had *already* been sedated and *still* freaked out. But threatening worked well for her so it worked out in the end. I realize many parents are against coercion but I'm not really one of them.

 

eta: I do agree that it's not necessarily a decision to be made lightly or without reasoning through the process.

[Laura Corin]

 

FWIW, I have a friend whose children were fully vaxed. They still got whooping cough. And severe food allergies, eczema and asthma. What then?

 

I suspect my children are probably the most fully-vaxed on the board. All the usuals plus TB, rabies, Hep A/B, Typhoid, Japanese Encephalitis..... No allergies, excellent immune systems. Hobbes visited the doctor for the first time in two years a month or two ago. As you can imagine, one would think that living in China would give him ample opportunity to get sick. But he and his brother are very healthy.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

[Mrs Mungo]

I suspect my children are probably the most fully-vaxed on the board. All the usuals plus TB, rabies, Japanese Encephalitis..... No allergies, excellent immune systems (Hobbes visited the doctor for the first time in two years a month or two ago).

 

Laura

 

But I bet the military wives have the most-vaxed hubbies! :lol: My hubby's vaccination record is 3 pages, typed. He's has all those you listed and then some.

[Pegasus]

Oops, hit post too quickly, I have one more question.

 

 

 

Not trying to start an argument, it's pure curiosity, but could you expound on this a bit? What does it contribute exactly to the health of your children?

 

FWIW, I have a friend whose children were fully vaxed. They still got whooping cough. And severe food allergies, eczema and asthma. What then?

 

Unfortunately, they do not have vaccines for eczema and asthma. They DO have allergy shots but I've usually heard of them being using in conjunction with seasonal allergies. I don't know if they'd be effective with food allergies.

 

Vaccinations are never foolproof. Even if you fully vaccinate a population, a certain percentage is still vulnerable to catching the disease. So, yes, vaccinated children can suffer whooping cough, chicken pox, etc. Usually their symptoms are less severe.

 

To answer your question, by fully vaccinating, I'm maximizing their chances (no guarantees!) to avoid serious illnesses. I believe the horrors of the diseases we vax against have faded too much from the minds of the public.

 

Pegasus

[mcconnellboys]

I see. I haven't heard of any such stories so I wasn't aware of those concerns. Regarding thimerasol, its inclusion was discontinued, but current stock was not pulled and thimerasol containing vaccines are still out there.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

It is interesting to me, too. A few years ago, I posted a similar question here regarding my ds, and got totally different responses. As a result of those responses, I took him to a different dentist, who did the fillings without sedation, or a papoose board, or requiring me to leave the room. The fourth filling was done without novacaine (and without pain).

 

Just taking my ds out of the environment that freaked him out as a young child made all the difference.

 

Background, my ds had been afraid of the "children's dentist" ever since his first check up, at about age 18 months. At age four, he needed a bunch of fillings, and that dentist wanted to give him oral sedation, use a papoose board to strap him down, and she wanted me in the waiting room the whole time. The sent me home with a bottle of unmarked sedative, with instructions to have him drink it an hour before his filling appointment, but no notice of possible side effects, and no instructions for possible problems. I was distraught, and came here. The moms on this board at the time told me to run (not walk) from that dentist, and find another. I did. The new dentist required none of those things, and needed none of them. Ds was scared, but he was a trooper. Like I said, he did the fourth filling without even a shot because the dentist said that the shot would hurt more than the procedure. He was right.

 

Anyway, I didn't get a chance to post to the original poster, but I would suggest she simply try a different dentist, even if a pediatric dentist isn't available. Just getting her ds out of the environment that scares him so much may make the world of difference.

[Bev in B'ville]

Unfortunately, they do not have vaccines for eczema and asthma. They DO have allergy shots but I've usually heard of them being using in conjunction with seasonal allergies. I don't know if they'd be effective with food allergies.

 

Vaccinations are never foolproof. Even if you fully vaccinate a population, a certain percentage is still vulnerable to catching the disease. So, yes, vaccinated children can suffer whooping cough, chicken pox, etc. Usually their symptoms are less severe.

 

To answer your question, by fully vaccinating, I'm maximizing their chances (no guarantees!) to avoid serious illnesses. I believe the horrors of the diseases we vax against have faded too much from the minds of the public.

 

Pegasus

 

:iagree:

 

That shots are NOT for seasonal allergies. He tells his seasonal allergy patients to take whatever med works for them (e.g. Claritin, Allegra, etc.) My son, who is highly allergic to some things (e.g. he went into anaphylactic shock during allergy testing) receives allergy shots which are slowly building up his immunity to all the things he's allergic to. Otherwise, my son would be taking four medications every day for the rest of his life. Are those shots worth it? You bet.

 

For what it's worth, yes my children are vaccinated by everything available (and other than allergies in my son, both are quite healthy). I had meningitis when I was younger and would rather give birth to quadruplets simultaneously than have that again. It was excruciatingly painful (words don't do it justice), way worse than labor ever was. Until the hospital put a morphine drip in me, I was quite delerious with pain. The morphine drip stayed in for days and it took about six weeks to fully recover. I was one of the lucky ones. People die from meningitis or have permanent issues from meningitis (e.g. brain damage, loss of hearing, loss of limbs, etc.). Vaccinate? You're darn tootin.

 

I respect those who do not choose to vaccinate, but I will continue to do so - having been on the other end of non-vaccinations.

 

Just my $.02.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I haven't read all the replies, but my impression is that most of the replies to the other poster were not in favor of sedation for routine dental work as a rule. They were addressing specific cases where it was not safe to complete the procedures without it. Also, when I responded, I was speaking to a liquid sedative to calm the child, not general anesthesia.

 

I had 2 children who needed dental work at very young ages who were not able to control their reactions to a stranger fiddling in their mouth for any period of time. Ds was 18 months at the time and terribly stranger adverse and not eating a stitch of solid foods and losing weight. DD was 2 and in pain. I am very conservative with medications - we typically do not do meds unless there are other alternatives. However, in this case, after much research into the situation, we opted for sedation for these specific procedures and have not used it since. DD needed a cavity filled at 4 and did not need sedation for that. Progressive exposure may be fine when there is no urgent need, but when you have very young children who are not eating due to oral pain and the progressive exposure would take years, we needed to look for other options.

 

I think the original poster was dealing with an unusual situation - an older child who had a worsening problem. Perhaps the demeanor of the pediatric dentist may have been enough for this child to be more co operative. Or, perhaps, the fear was more deep seated than that and needed a different approach.

[snickelfritz]

For my dd's procedures, they give her a "goofy juice" beforehand. It makes her extremely relaxed and ...well, goofy. She's not supposed to walk by herself when she's had it. It doesn't knock her out, but it is supposed to really relax her so that they can knock her out without a hysterical fit.

 

I am wondering if the goofy juice is the same thing the dentists use.

 

I would assume you have to go to an oral surgeon to have a true iv sedation. I did that for my wisdom teeth, due to my own dentist anxieties.

[Kathy in MD]

I misread your title as WAX instead of vax.

 

I thought you were commenting on how people who used wax for hair removal were now sedating themselves before removing the wax. My reaction?:

 

"Well, of course they are!!!!! After reading about the Brazilian wax and the bathtub story, who wouldn't use sedation first!"

[Jean in Newcastle]

As the OP on the whole dental trauma thread, I'm going to weigh in now! Our dentist is a fine dentist. They do the first visits where the child gets to ride in the chair, meet "Mr. Thirsty", etc. She has never had a horrible experience at the dentist - you know, something that would cause a sudden fear to emerge. So, the dentist and I were caught a bit unaware when she started to freak out - a bit at the previous visit and this time a full-blown freak out. The dentist was not upset by her screaming in his ear. He was more concerned that he might accidentally hurt her (esp. when she gets her fillings) because she was not only screaming but was moving when she was not supposed to.

 

My dh did point out something that helped me understand her a bit better - she is very bright and has a very active imagination that goes with it. That imagination can heighten fears. In our case I want a dentist that can keep her safe - with sedation if she needs it. The idea of her being physically restrained makes my hair curl a bit - I would hate to be restrained like that - talk about having no control over what is being done with your body! I do want her to have me with her if she wants/needs me. This child can be a very brave girl - when she had her tongue clipped last year, she chose to not have sedation but to walk down the hall to the operating room without me - she wanted to be alert enough to know what was happening to her - at least up to the point where they put her out with anesthesia!!

 

BTW - we do vaccinate but on a delayed schedule. Some of the more recent vaccinations we may decide to decline.

[dirty ethel rackham]

The goofy juice is what I was talking about. I think IV sedation would be general anesthesia. I've only known one person who had this for their child, but they were talking about 2 hours worth of work on a toddler. The goofy juice only goes so far.

[Rhonda in TX]

We allowed laughing gas once and DS didn't react well to it. We have changed to a different dentist and they are wonderful. DS has had two cavities filled, with shots given, with no problem. He didn't even know when they gave him the shot!