SOTW 2 secular?

[DragonFaerie]

How much religious content is there in SOTW 2? I didn't use SOTW 1 because I thought it was too religious but I think there is less in book 2. Is that right?

[Veritaserum]

How much religious content is there in SOTW 2? I didn't use SOTW 1 because I thought it was too religious but I think there is less in book 2. Is that right?

 

I don't find any of the SOTW volumes to be religious. Yes, SOTW 1 includes Judeo-Christian sacred stories, but it also includes stories from other religions. The second volume also contains religious stories where they help illustrate the beliefs of a culture, but there are fewer of them. You can't gain a good understanding of history without understanding the Church and the Reformation or other religious topics, nor should those parts of history be excluded from a secular education. :)

[Just Robyn]

In SOTW 1 it is made clear that stories from religions other than xianity are myths, but some (all?) of the stories from xianity are not defined as such. It's something like putting King Kong in a blue box marked "myth" in a chapter about monkeys/apes, and then making Godzilla the chapter after Stegosaurus - no blue box, no "myth" label.

 

ETA: Sorry, I know this doesn't answer the original question. I really don't know. I started using HO so that I wouldn't have to go through the whole SOTW book ahead of time and weed out religious chapters because HO does it for me. By "religious chapters" I don't mean chapters that teach about religion, I mean chapters that teach religion as if it were fact.

Edited June 4, 2011 by crstarlette

[lailasmum]

When we used SOTW 1 & SOTW 2 if I found anything that represented Christian stories as fact I simply reworded it as I read it out loud. It wasn't difficult to alter it as I read it to give it the same treatment as for the other religions covered. We are still using it as a read aloud though. Would be different if my dd was reading it for herself though I would have to find a different source then.

[cassiemc]

I don't find any of the SOTW volumes to be religious. Yes, SOTW 1 includes Judeo-Christian sacred stories, but it also includes stories from other religions. The second volume also contains religious stories where they help illustrate the beliefs of a culture, but there are fewer of them. You can't gain a good understanding of history without understanding the Church and the Reformation or other religious topics, nor should those parts of history be excluded from a secular education. :)

I totally agree with this. I think studying these books has helped my kids see religion for what it is ;)

[Farrar]

There are reasons to find SOTW 1 (or the whole series) too religious if you're a secular homeschooler. The OP already evaluated the first volume and found it too Christian. The question is whether volume 2 is similar or if there's any difference. I don't think you're going to convince the OP that the content of the first volume is okay - she's already made up her mind and it's not what she asked besides.

 

As a secular homeschooler, having used both volumes. Yes, the second volume has less religion than the first. The first volume has a lot about the history of the Jews and the rise of Christianity. Even outside of Christianity, there are just a lot of religious myths presented, plus there's the issue of the prehistory that is glossed over so quickly at the start. The second volume, because of the time frame, has less of these issues to deal with. There is a chapter on the history of the Jews (easily skipped). The beginnings of Islam is covered, but I thought it was covered fairly. The place where you might have issues is with the clash between the Islamic Empire and Christian Europe - there are a few places where the language seems to imply that the stories the Christian side told about being helped by God has more weight than the Islamic side. Also, in the section on the Crusades, some people might feel she's not really hard enough on the Crusaders, though I thought that in a text for younger kids, it was appropriately covered (she absolutely makes it clear they caused a lot of havoc on the Crusades). There may be a couple other places where religion might be a slight issue, but overall, I find it much less religious than the first volume.

 

On the other hand... the historical biases in the second volume stood out for me more and I didn't always agree with what was covered. We ended up supplementing more with historical books (as opposed to the piles of myths and fiction we used with both) than with the first volume. I wrote about that a little in a blog post if you're curious.

 

But I personally found that both volumes were good in many other ways. So, you can take my opinion with a grain of salt, so to speak.

[sarawatsonim]

There are reasons to find SOTW 1 (or the whole series) too religious if you're a secular homeschooler. The OP already evaluated the first volume and found it too Christian. The question is whether volume 2 is similar or if there's any difference. I don't think you're going to convince the OP that the content of the first volume is okay - she's already made up her mind and it's not what she asked besides.

 

As a secular homeschooler, having used both volumes. Yes, the second volume has less religion than the first. The first volume has a lot about the history of the Jews and the rise of Christianity. Even outside of Christianity, there are just a lot of religious myths presented, plus there's the issue of the prehistory that is glossed over so quickly at the start. The second volume, because of the time frame, has less of these issues to deal with. There is a chapter on the history of the Jews (easily skipped). The beginnings of Islam is covered, but I thought it was covered fairly. The place where you might have issues is with the clash between the Islamic Empire and Christian Europe - there are a few places where the language seems to imply that the stories the Christian side told about being helped by God has more weight than the Islamic side. Also, in the section on the Crusades, some people might feel she's not really hard enough on the Crusaders, though I thought that in a text for younger kids, it was appropriately covered (she absolutely makes it clear they caused a lot of havoc on the Crusades). There may be a couple other places where religion might be a slight issue, but overall, I find it much less religious than the first volume.

 

On the other hand... the historical biases in the second volume stood out for me more and I didn't always agree with what was covered. We ended up supplementing more with historical books (as opposed to the piles of myths and fiction we used with both) than with the first volume. I wrote about that a little in a blog post if you're curious.

 

But I personally found that both volumes were good in many other ways. So, you can take my opinion with a grain of salt, so to speak.

 

Thanks for the blog post! We are doing SOTW 2 next year and medieval history is my thing as well so I am really looking forward to it. I was thinking that I would be needing a lot more supplements for this book than the last so thanks for confirming that. I wasn't a big fan of the AG for SOTW 1, we ended up skipping most of the crafts in it. So I might skip buying that and put the money towards some good supplemental books instead. Thanks for the book recommendations. I find the medieval time period fascinating and hope to pass that on to my dd.

[poetic license]

There are reasons to find SOTW 1 (or the whole series) too religious if you're a secular homeschooler. The OP already evaluated the first volume and found it too Christian. The question is whether volume 2 is similar or if there's any difference. I don't think you're going to convince the OP that the content of the first volume is okay - she's already made up her mind and it's not what she asked besides.

 

As a secular homeschooler, having used both volumes. Yes, the second volume has less religion than the first. The first volume has a lot about the history of the Jews and the rise of Christianity. Even outside of Christianity, there are just a lot of religious myths presented, plus there's the issue of the prehistory that is glossed over so quickly at the start. The second volume, because of the time frame, has less of these issues to deal with. There is a chapter on the history of the Jews (easily skipped). The beginnings of Islam is covered, but I thought it was covered fairly. The place where you might have issues is with the clash between the Islamic Empire and Christian Europe - there are a few places where the language seems to imply that the stories the Christian side told about being helped by God has more weight than the Islamic side. Also, in the section on the Crusades, some people might feel she's not really hard enough on the Crusaders, though I thought that in a text for younger kids, it was appropriately covered (she absolutely makes it clear they caused a lot of havoc on the Crusades). There may be a couple other places where religion might be a slight issue, but overall, I find it much less religious than the first volume.

 

On the other hand... the historical biases in the second volume stood out for me more and I didn't always agree with what was covered. We ended up supplementing more with historical books (as opposed to the piles of myths and fiction we used with both) than with the first volume. I wrote about that a little in a blog post if you're curious.

 

But I personally found that both volumes were good in many other ways. So, you can take my opinion with a grain of salt, so to speak.

 

 

Just wanted to say I really appreciate reading this analysis and the blog post. I had the same issues that you brought up in the blog post about grammar stage kids being more than just sponges. They can definitely pick up at least basic discussions of the "why" of history. I haven't even done SOTW 1 but I'm definitely keeping these ideas in the back of my mind when we get to SOTW 2.

[kalanamak]

How much religious content is there in SOTW 2? I didn't use SOTW 1 because I thought it was too religious but I think there is less in book 2. Is that right?

 

I believe so, and I've read them all.

[kalanamak]

I totally agree with this. I think studying these books has helped my kids see religion for what it is ;)

 

 

:iagree: When we got to Abraham, who was written about in a different tone than all before, my son (at 6!) asked if the writer was Christian, and I told him she was.

[Kate in Arabia]

The beginnings of Islam is covered, but I thought it was covered fairly. The place where you might have issues is with the clash between the Islamic Empire and Christian Europe - there are a few places where the language seems to imply that the stories the Christian side told about being helped by God has more weight than the Islamic side.

 

I took issue with parts of how the beginnings of Islam there handled. There is an element of "artistic license" which is expected in a book for children, but I found how this came out in the parts on Islam unfortunate. We substitute in those chapters.

[kiana]

I took issue with parts of how the beginnings of Islam there handled. There is an element of "artistic license" which is expected in a book for children, but I found how this came out in the parts on Islam unfortunate. We substitute in those chapters.

 

Kate, this might be side-tracking the thread a bit, but what did you substitute?

[Kate in Arabia]

We're a Muslim family, so we have a fairly broad range of materials on early Islam from a Muslim perspective. I have a list of most of our resources here.

[kiana]

We're a Muslim family, so we have a fairly broad range of materials on early Islam from a Muslim perspective. I have a list of most of our resources here.

 

Thanks :)

[kalanamak]

Kate, this might be side-tracking the thread a bit, but what did you substitute?

 

I liked the Islam beginnings covered in The Cartoon History o the Universe. I know these books sound silly, and there is a wee bit of silly, but no comic books WHAM POW or melodrama, and they exposed my 7 year old to more things because the drawings kept him attuned.

[foxbridgeacademy]

Okay, I'll admit it, we're atheists and we use SOTW. I was also very concerned about the religious content but have found that if we discuss after reading there are no issues. We're still on SOTW 1 but I have mostly read through Vol. 2 and there seems to be less religious content.

 

The thing is even as a nonbeliever I feel it's a good idea to know the stories. DH gives me dirty looks when we read about Abraham and the others. I think it's important to know not only what really happened but also what people believe to be true. Religion has shaped so much of our history even our pre-history that there is no way to leave it out. I minored in religion at college (majored in History) for the very reason that to truly understand people and the why of it all, you need to understand their motivations, and for a very long time belief in God has been a huge motivator.

[Mom in High Heels]

\

 

The thing is even as a nonbeliever I feel it's a good idea to know the stories. DH gives me dirty looks when we read about Abraham and the others. I think it's important to know not only what really happened but also what people believe to be true. Religion has shaped so much of our history even our pre-history that there is no way to leave it out...{SNIP} .... to truly understand people and the why of it all, you need to understand their motivations, and for a very long time belief in God has been a huge motivator.

 

Oh, yes, this! We're secular hsers and use SOTW. I did find 2 less religious than the others in a sense of "this is fact and that is fiction" that came through in 1. Vol 2 does discuss religion, but when you're studying the middle ages you really can't NOT discuss religion as for most of the western world, religion was the center of life and the driving force behind much of what happened in the way of art, architecture, literature, dress, and daily life. Wars were fought and kingdoms toppled over religion. There are a few things that I edited on the fly (just because I didn't like the wording), but it was far easier than in vol 1.

[DragonFaerie]

Thanks for the replies, everyone! It's not that I want to avoid religion completely. I just don't like it presented as fact or as the centerpiece of historical or scientific study.

[justamouse]

I don't find any of the SOTW volumes to be religious. Yes, SOTW 1 includes Judeo-Christian sacred stories, but it also includes stories from other religions. The second volume also contains religious stories where they help illustrate the beliefs of a culture, but there are fewer of them. You can't gain a good understanding of history without understanding the Church and the Reformation or other religious topics, nor should those parts of history be excluded from a secular education. :)

:iagree:

[mamachanse]

Okay, I'll admit it, we're atheists and we use SOTW. I was also very concerned about the religious content but have found that if we discuss after reading there are no issues. We're still on SOTW 1 but I have mostly read through Vol. 2 and there seems to be less religious content.

 

The thing is even as a nonbeliever I feel it's a good idea to know the stories. DH gives me dirty looks when we read about Abraham and the others. I think it's important to know not only what really happened but also what people believe to be true. Religion has shaped so much of our history even our pre-history that there is no way to leave it out. I minored in religion at college (majored in History) for the very reason that to truly understand people and the why of it all, you need to understand their motivations, and for a very long time belief in God has been a huge motivator.

:iagree: yes to all of this (except I studied Sociology). ;)

[EKS]

If you thought SOTW 1 was too religious, then you'll definitely think SOTW 2 is! However, any history book worth anything is going to have to spend quite a while on religion because of its influence on human events. However, SWB's Christianity does come through strongly in the narrative, which can be off-putting for those of us of other faiths/non-faiths.