I.Dup. Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Our situation is similiar to what was posted in another thread, we just moved out of a rental, left it in very good condition, and they are taking us to court over $2,800- much of that is cleaning costs charged by the only cleaner in town they would accept (she works for them at $35 an hour and supposedly she spent 60 hours in there cleaning which is completely ridiculous). The only proof they have is this cleaning woman's testimony and the bill she gave them. They did send us all of this within the 21 day period, they made sure to cover everything legally and they did a good job of it. I am wondering what the best way is to go against these landlords and this cleaning woman in court? They are heavy hitters here in town and own many, many rental properties in our small town (hundreds). I called this mysterious cleaning woman and the only answer she would give me about why she spent so long in the duplex was that the "kitchen cabinets had not been vacuumed or wiped down" but I did do that. She said it was "very messy" but did not give any details. We also wiped down the walls and filled all of the nail holes, but the walls are a big thing they are holding against us. I'm sure there were still crayon marks left over and I can understand if she spent, say, 5-6 hours in there cleaning but to charge us for 60 hours is so completely over the top. They took pictures but we can prove they came in and took the pictures before we were done moving out b/c we have many of the items in the pictures still in our possession. We would not have that if they took the pictures after we had finished cleaning and handed over the keys. I have looked at the pictures and they are VERY zoomed in on things like 1 crayon mark on the wall, or one stove top burner, without giving a good look at the duplex. I am hesitant to ask that the pictures be removed from evidence because overall, it shows the condition was really not that bad, even though the pictures were taken before we had even started cleaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigomama Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Ugh-what a hassle. Did you take pictures when you left? Did you do a walk-thru? We own now, but when we rented we always took dated pictures prior to moving in and after cleaning for move-out. We also, always did a walk-thru with the landlord at the time of move out before handing over the keys. Could you call another cleaning service and get an estimate of what they would have charged for any reasonable amount of time you think they might have needed someone? Sorry I don't have any other advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6packofun Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I assume you didn't take your own photos? I'm not sure what to tell you, other than I get the impression this could be a scam they've got going together! I'd be curious how many other times they've take people to court or threatened to... I'm sorry you're going through this. A lawyer would be your best bet, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6packofun Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 OH, I also meant to say that the landlord sounds like he/she knows the law, but if you were to return their correspondance with a letter from your OWN lawyer, they'll know you're serious and may drop the case if they don't want the hassle. I believe that in most cases if they are found to be bringing false or unsustainable charges, they have to pay YOUR court costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 If you didn't take pictures, that's not good. If you're up against a long term landlord that's not good. There are some landlords who are pros at scamming people and they don't care if they lie through their teeth. 60 hours is excessive and judges are not stupid. I'm sure you'll end up paying something but not near 60 hours worth of cleaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 My dh and I used to own a cleaning business. We did a few move out cleanings. I can tell you that we had some bad ones and they would take two days, maybe 30 man (two people at ~8 hrs/day)hours total.But 60 hours? Please! The house would have to eat off the floor clean now and you would have had to have been slobs. I'm not sure I have any advice, :grouphug::grouphug: If they are heavy hitters in town, I would get a lawyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I wonder if they had it repainted, and charged you for the painting, but called it cleaning costs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailofsparks Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 It's been a while since I rented, but at the time in the state where I lived, if a tenant had rented for a certain amount of time before moving out, the owner had to re-paint and couldn't charge the renters. It was more for sanitary reasons. If you lived there a while, this might be something to check into in case they try to stiff you w/painting fees. Is there any way you can look into the history of these 2 companies? If they're scammers, they've got a history of it. Sorry you're going through this. I hope it's resolved quickly and painlessly for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 You only have to leave it as clean as it was when you moved in. Otherwise the cleaning charge belongs to the landlord, as it involves getting ready for the next tenant. Also, if he feels he has cause to charge you, this normally would be deducted from the security deposit. Why are you getting a bill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarreymere Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 As a former travel nurse who moved into and out of housing every few months we were advised by the veteran travellers to always videotape the walk-in inspection with the landlord or agent and also to videotape the exit inspection and walk-thru. This was so that you could also tape the verbal comments made at the time also as people are more inclined to run over at the mouth and it was usually more favorable to us than just photos. Some staffing companies also owned the rental housing and it was pretty common to try to scam us. I'm sorry this happened to you, get a good lawyer and next time video tape everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 It sounds like you are being scammed- 60 hours of cleaning is ridiculous. You could call their bluff and get your own lawyer. I guess if you need a reference its even tricker? We have never had that problem and we have always rented- but we have always employed cleaners once we moved out, to finish off after we have done a basic clean- we would never leave that to a real estate agent. It's too open to abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misidawnrn Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 60 hours??? I am cleaning our old house right now and getting it ready for renters...so far I have removed carpet and padding from the livingroom and hallway 1.5 hours pulled up all of the stupid carpet staples on my hands and knees mind you (wanna know what my knees feel like?)...2 hours, have swept the bare floors about 4 times after removing carpet 1 hour painted the livingroom, windows, door frames, hallway, 5 doors and frames in the hallway, and dining room...with a roller brush, not spray on...total probaby 10 hours, had the tub resurfaced and replaced the surround 8 hours (done by a professional), painted the new sheet rock in the bathroom 1 hour scrubbed the kitchen, stove, fridge, cupboards etc 8 hours vaccuumed all 3 bedrooms very well 1 hour so total that is 32 hours, give or take. 60 hours???? Did she have to remodel the whole house? I think you are getting ripped off!!!! I hope you win in court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewellsmommy Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Sounds crazy! I'm sure they will have to back up their claim some how. When they can't, you'll win. We were taken to court once by an apt complex. I guess they didn't think we would actually show. When the case was called, I stood there and opposed the charges (it was about when and how we gave notice and a supposed mess we left). The judge asked the apt manager to show the lease. They didn't even have it. The judge ruled in our favor. The whole thing took less than 5 minutes. The whole thing was ridiculous, and I think they were playing a numbers game. They probably go after a lot of people on trumped up claims, hoping that they will get those few that don't even bother to show up at the court. I hope it goes well for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 Thank you all. Dh and I were flabbergasted when we saw the itemized "bill" (and that "bill" was really just this one woman cleaning lady saying how many hours she was supposedly in there for...from what I know, they are the only people that use her and she is the ONLY one they will use, they instructed us not to hire other cleaners.) I spent many, many hours in there scrubbing out the shower with special sponges to get every trace of soap scum off, we scrubbed down all the walls, I hired a carpet cleaner myself about 6 weeks before we moved out (the same one they use), I cleaned out the window tracks, I cleaned out the kitchen cabinets- scrubbed and vacuumed. But 60 hours is so completely unfathomable I cannot believe they're actually going through with this court thing. We filed an answer, we had a lawyer friend write it up but he said that's all he could really do for us, and we mailed it to their lawyer and they're still wanting to go through with court. Sounds crazy! I'm sure they will have to back up their claim some how. When they can't, you'll win. We were taken to court once by an apt complex. I guess they didn't think we would actually show. When the case was called, I stood there and opposed the charges (it was about when and how we gave notice and a supposed mess we left). The judge asked the apt manager to show the lease. They didn't even have it. The judge ruled in our favor. The whole thing took less than 5 minutes. The whole thing was ridiculous, and I think they were playing a numbers game. They probably go after a lot of people on trumped up claims, hoping that they will get those few that don't even bother to show up at the court. I hope it goes well for you. I am REALLY hoping this is what will happen. Our court date is one week before I'm expecting this baby to be born and come hell or high water we WILL be there but I'm really stressing about it. I hope the judge sees right through it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 I did NOT take pictures upon moving out, of course I wish I had now and always will in the future. I never dreamed they would pull something like this. But even the pictures they have as evidence really aren't very incriminating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 And the $2800 is over and above the $750 security deposit they are keeping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepymommy Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 :grouphug::grouphug: I hate this feeling of being taken advantaged of. Add to this that I'm a pretty introverted, non-confrontational person and it just makes the whole situation so nauseating. Our landlord seems to have gotten all his ducks in a row against us to. I truly hope that the judge rules in your favor and that this guy gets slapped right back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 :grouphug::grouphug: I hate this feeling of being taken advantaged of. Add to this that I'm a pretty introverted, non-confrontational person and it just makes the whole situation so nauseating. Our landlord seems to have gotten all his ducks in a row against us to. I truly hope that the judge rules in your favor and that this guy gets slapped right back. I hope the same for you. It truly makes me feel sick, feeling taken advantage of like this. Esp. when they're coming at us with their guns blazing. :sad::angry: If I had any idea this could happen I would have done a LOT of things differently, that was my fault for not taking pictures upon move out, etc. I just give people too much credit I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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