I probably shouldn't have said anything, but I did.

[Jenny in Florida]

Well, if a parent has a specific goal of making the child aware of how other people view his or her behavior (a common goal for parent's of Aspie's and other high functioning autistics) then having someone else tell the child that they perceived the behavior negatively does specifically back up the parent. even beyond that situation, I do not think having a member of the community reinforce the standards set by the parent (by communicating those standards respectfully to the child) in any way undermines a parent. Community standards are a important part of most parent's standards for their children's behavior and is one reason that some aspects of child training vary by region. While I do not think it is the village's job to raise anyone's children, I do think that when you are out in the village square, so to speak, the village has a right to expect some basic level of pro-social behavior and to let you (even a child "you") know when you are failing to do that in a polite, respectful and pro-social manner.

 

But, you see, a stranger would have no idea what my specific goals are for my child.

 

Nor would a stranger know anything about my parenting philosophy or something as simple as the fact that we do not require our children to say they feel things they don't yet feel in order to satisfy the demands of strangers.

[Jenny in Florida]

Worked for ds AND us! :001_smile:

 

But, you see, it would not have worked for us. So, both you and the stranger got lucky. None of us have any way of knowing whether that would be the case with the next parent.

[Jenny in Florida]

I wonder if anyone would have minded the comment had it been made by the scout leader.

 

The difference in that situation would be that the scout leader would be an adult I had CHOSEN to help me raise my child, and also someone with whom we would presumably have an ongoing relationship.

 

It would not be a stranger who took it upon herself to discipline my child based on a brief and anonymous interaction.

[EKS]

My approach to these sorts of situations is "Not my child, not my problem."

[8circles]

OP, I think what you said was well-meaning & not inappropriate at all. However, as the thread shows, it may not have been perceived as such. I can imagine a scenario in which I would not have appreciated it but I don't think you have any way of knowing this & I don't think it follows that you should have said nothing then.

 

I'm pretty strict & definitely don't allow my kids to be disrespectful but all children are not the same & don't respond in the same ways to the same directions/tone. I would have been horrified if someone had told my children to "Sit down!" if they were peering over into the next booth. Even though that isn't allowed behavior, there have been times when I haven't caught it right away. I would find it very rude for an adult to respond in such a way to a child.

The man with the "baby" comment at the park? Oh my.

 

I think this is just one of those potayto/potahto moments & you just have to let it go, whichever side you're on. Even though some people's "helpful" is my "rude" I have to keep assuming they mean well... unless it's more obvious that they don't.

[In2why]

The thing is that she DIDN'T tell the child to "respect his parent." She specifically told him to say he was sorry.

 

I've already explained that this is something we very intentionally do not do in our home. I have never understood how it is helpful to coerce a child into lying about his feelings in order to get out of being in trouble. In our home, we never make apologizing a consquence of misbehavior.

 

If a stranger insisted my child apologize to me, that would not be consistent with our (intentional and well-thought-out) parenting approach.

 

But, of course, a stranger wouldn't know that.

 

Which is why said stranger should NOT attempt to discipline my child unless I'm not around to do so.

 

 

She didn't insist he apologize, she did tell him that he should. In fact the child didn't apologize, and kept on mouthing off and she didn't continue the conversation with the child. I also think that your saying that they shouldn't discipline your child when you are there, but it is okay if you aren't around are a contradiction. If your child hit another child, and you weren't there, I would likely instruct him to apologize to the child he hit, and wouldn't know that is "against you parenting style". The only difference I see is that you are there in one scenario and not in another.

[joysworld]

Well, if a parent has a specific goal of making the child aware of how other people view his or her behavior (a common goal for parent's of Aspie's and other high functioning autistics) then having someone else tell the child that they perceived the behavior negatively does specifically back up the parent. even beyond that situation, I do not think having a member of the community reinforce the standards set by the parent (by communicating those standards respectfully to the child) in any way undermines a parent. Community standards are a important part of most parent's standards for their children's behavior and is one reason that some aspects of child training vary by region. While I do not think it is the village's job to raise anyone's children, I do think that when you are out in the village square, so to speak, the village has a right to expect some basic level of pro-social behavior and to let you (even a child "you") know when you are failing to do that in a polite, respectful and pro-social manner.

 

I have a high functioning ds, and if someone were to try to correct him, even as politely as the OP, he would curl into a fetal position on the floor and wail. Yes my son needs to understand his consequences effect others, but the way to do that varies from child to child. A stranger has no way of knowing what another parent's particular child needs.

[cdrumm4448]

The thing is that she DIDN'T tell the child to "respect his parent." She specifically told him to say he was sorry.

 

 

Actually, she said,"Young man, you do not talk to your mama that way..." Implying he spoke in an unacceptable, disrespectful manner.

 

And for the record, apologies are expected in my home. I believe children need guidance and models of behavior. For example, when showing my son how to clean the bathroom, I didn't tell him to clean the toilet when he felt he was ready. We clean the toilet as part of cleaning the bathroom. It is part of that responsibility.

 

In my home, apologizing for a wrong you have done to someone is part of the responsibility of making amends, and sometimes you do it when you don't feel like it, because it's the right thing to do. In my opinion, it isn't up to the wronged person to wait around until the guilty party feels good and ready to apologize.

 

Not everyone has the same expectations.

[Jenny in Florida]

She didn't insist he apologize, she did tell him that he should. In fact the child didn't apologize, and kept on mouthing off and she didn't continue the conversation with the child. I also think that your saying that they shouldn't discipline your child when you are there, but it is okay if you aren't around are a contradiction. If your child hit another child, and you weren't there, I would likely instruct him to apologize to the child he hit, and wouldn't know that is "against you parenting style". The only difference I see is that you are there in one scenario and not in another.

 

She said, as I recall, "You need to say you're sorry."

 

The difference is that when I'm not around, it's because I've left my children in the care of people I know and trust, not random strangers.

[Cricket]

If you had said that to my kid, I would have raised an eye....at my kid....as to say "SEE, someone else thinks you are acting like a fool." Wouldn't make me mad at all if I knew my kid deserved it.

 

This is the way I would react now. I would have been upset with the OP if it had been my first child. :) What I do mind is when someone steps in to tell my dd she can't buy a pack of gum at the store, grabbing it from her and putting it back on the shelf. That is overstepping bounds. A "well-meaning" relative did this the other day. :glare: I didn't mind when he told her not to argue with her mother.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

I have to keep assuming they mean well...

:hurray:

[Serenade]

 

I guess I look at this new world we live in, where you're not supposed to give anyone else even a hint that they are less than perfect, lest you shatter their world to pieces, and I realize I don't belong. I'm from a world where you see your own faults and try to improve them, and you try to help other people (especially the younger ones) do the same. I think the general emphasis in our culture on "tolerance" has ironically made all of us a lot thinner-skinned, and it emboldens more people to foist the intolerable on everyone else around them.

 

This is wonderfully quotable. I love what you wrote, and I think it is very true.

[Impish]

Ok, I have a question. No snark, serious question.

 

At what point IS it acceptable to speak up?

 

Let me give you an example.

 

When Princess was a baby, we took the kids to the community pool. Wolf and I were in the 'training' pool, a very shallow area used by parents of babies and toddlers. Along came a boy, about 10 or so, with his mom.

 

Mom sat on the bench, boy started hucking weighted diving rings into the pool, repeatedly having near misses with little ones and their parents. Mom sat there and said, "Sorry, he has ODD." Absolutely no action on her part. Didn't even address her child.

 

This continued until I went and got a life guard, who removed the child.

 

Don't get me wrong. I get that some children have special needs, and can be exhausting and challenging to parent. Honestly, I do.

 

But when your child is endangering others, if you're not doing a single thing to help, someone has got to act to ensure the safety of others. Simply ignoring it isn't going to fix anything. Worrying about Mom being offended isn't going to help. It was a matter of time before someone was hurt.

[Mejane]

Mom sat on the bench, boy started hucking weighted diving rings into the pool, repeatedly having near misses with little ones and their parents. Mom sat there and said, "Sorry, he has ODD." Absolutely no action on her part. Didn't even address her child.

 

 

 

 

"I understand that, but someone is going to get hurt so he really needs to stop." Then if she doesn't intervene, get the guard. I believe in giving the parent the opportunity to be the parent. If they don't, then someone else needs to be.

[Jenny in Florida]

"I understand that, but someone is going to get hurt so he really needs to stop." Then if she doesn't intervene, get the guard. I believe in giving the parent the opportunity to be the parent. If they don't, then someone else needs to be.

 

Pretty much this.

[Brindee]

I would have been horrified if someone had told my children to "Sit down!" if they were peering over into the next booth. Even though that isn't allowed behavior, there have been times when I haven't caught it right away. I would find it very rude for an adult to respond in such a way to a child.

Really? It could be said in a nicer tone, but why would that be horrifying and rude? People don't care for kids hanging over and staring at them while they're trying to eat. They know parents get distracted, so they're just letting the child know they need to turn around and not stare at them. What would be better for them to do?

 

The man with the "baby" comment at the park? Oh my.

Guess you had to be there. :001_smile: Maybe Jenny was right and we lucked out. The guy was very jovial about it. He was talking to our ds like a friend, "hey buddy, think about it dude" type talk that was obviously not meant to harm or intrude but to help.

 

I understand where you're coming from, I've gotten my hackles up when people have said things to me or my child(ren). But there was a huge difference in attitude. Others have a harsher attitude, acting as if I or my child are idiots. This guy wasn't like that at all.

 

 

I think this is just one of those potayto/potahto moments & you just have to let it go, whichever side you're on. Even though some people's "helpful" is my "rude" I have to keep assuming they mean well... unless it's more obvious that they don't.

I agree, that's why I don't understand your above comment of how rude that would be for someone to ask your child that's staring at them to sit down. :001_huh:

 

But yeah, I always try to assume they mean well. If I hear a sharp tone, or see rolled eyes, that's a different story! :tongue_smilie:

Edited May 3, 2011 by Brindee

[In2why]

She said, as I recall, "You need to say you're sorry."

 

The difference is that when I'm not around, it's because I've left my children in the care of people I know and trust, not random strangers.

 

What about at the park or whereever and your back is turned. Is it okay then for a stranger to tell your child to stop throwing sand on their child? Or that throwing trash in the ground isn't nice and they should pick it up? Or should they always find you and tell you what your child is doing instead? I find this all fascinating, and think perhaps it is a generation gap. I find many children and their parents to hold the belief that they are the center of the universe and everything should be bent to their needs and wants. To tell the truth is scares me a bit for the future.

[8circles]

I agree, that's why I don't understand your above comment of how rude that would be for someone to ask your child that's staring at them to sit down. :001_huh:

My point is that even though to me it sounds rude, I don't assume that was the intention. I still have *my opinion of whether or not something is rude. & yes, I would be horrified. If the adult said "hey, could you please sit down? We'd like some privacy" then that's different. A simple "sit down!" seems a bit harsh to me. Children are as deserving of respect as adults. But that's just MHO. Maybe some are capable of delivering a "sit down!" that doesn't come across as harsh but I can't picture it. In any case, if this happened to me & my children, I'd keep my horror to myself & assume the other person meant well.

 

But yeah, I always try to assume they mean well. If I hear a sharp tone, or see rolled eyes, that's a different story! :tongue_smilie:

:001_smile:

[Jean in Newcastle]

I've started to very loudly call out "No!" when I see kids peeking under the toilet stalls at me. Sometimes it's toddlers but often it is older kids who definitely know better.

[8circles]

I've started to very loudly call out "No!" when I see kids peeking under the toilet stalls at me. Sometimes it's toddlers but often it is older kids who definitely know better.

 

Not sure if you meant it to come across as funny, but it did. & I wholeheartedly approve. :lol:

[Jean in Newcastle]

Not sure if you meant it to come across as funny, but it did. & I wholeheartedly approve. :lol:

 

I never mind laughter. :D But it's not always funny at the time. I do like a LITTLE bit of privacy when doing my business:blushing:

[In2why]

Ok, I have a question. No snark, serious question.

 

At what point IS it acceptable to speak up?

 

Let me give you an example.

 

When Princess was a baby, we took the kids to the community pool. Wolf and I were in the 'training' pool, a very shallow area used by parents of babies and toddlers. Along came a boy, about 10 or so, with his mom.

 

Mom sat on the bench, boy started hucking weighted diving rings into the pool, repeatedly having near misses with little ones and their parents. Mom sat there and said, "Sorry, he has ODD." Absolutely no action on her part. Didn't even address her child.

 

This continued until I went and got a life guard, who removed the child.

 

Don't get me wrong. I get that some children have special needs, and can be exhausting and challenging to parent. Honestly, I do.

 

But when your child is endangering others, if you're not doing a single thing to help, someone has got to act to ensure the safety of others. Simply ignoring it isn't going to fix anything. Worrying about Mom being offended isn't going to help. It was a matter of time before someone was hurt.

 

Crazy. Last summer a boy about 10 went in my son's wallet while he was in the pool and took his cash. I happened to be outside of the gate and saw it all. I didn't see his mother, or even know who she was, but I told the boy to give the money back to my son and his Aunt came over and couldn't believe that he did this. HisUep Mom came over from the snack shack and expressed disbelief and apologized for him while he merrily swam in the pool. She said she couldn't understand why he would steal because they give him everything that he could ever want. I kept thinking that I couldn't believe that she wasn't getting him out of the pool, speaking to him about it, making him apologize, or taking him home to be grounded or some type of consequences. I think I know why he steals, because apparently the world doesn't completely end when he does something like this, so why not? Even if she needed to get herself together and decide what to do about it later, I can't imagine just letting him go on enjoying his day like nothing happened. Yep I judge her parenting.....not because he stole, but because of her reaction to it.

[tex-mex]

If that's the worst thing that this kid ever hears from someone, he'll have lived one heck of a charmed life.

 

Goodness, the OP didn't curse him out. :tongue_smilie:

:lol::lol::lol:

[In2why]

I've started to very loudly call out "No!" when I see kids peeking under the toilet stalls at me. Sometimes it's toddlers but often it is older kids who definitely know better.

 

 

If anyone has a problem with this I am really going to :banghead:

[8circles]

I guess I look at this new world we live in, where you're not supposed to give anyone else even a hint that they are less than perfect, lest you shatter their world to pieces, and I realize I don't belong. I'm from a world where you see your own faults and try to improve them, and you try to help other people (especially the younger ones) do the same. I think the general emphasis in our culture on "tolerance" has ironically made all of us a lot thinner-skinned, and it emboldens more people to foist the intolerable on everyone else around them.

 

I've been thinking about this paragraph & trying to piece together a coherent response. I'm not sure how exactly you mean this in relation to the original situation, or even if you do. Can you explain that?

 

In general, I don't know that I agree with you, but in as much as it may be true that we are more thinner-skinned than before, I don't see tolerance as a contributor. I keep typing more & it's not coming out right. I know for me, I see people who have such long lists of expectations of everyone & everything on the list is high priority. & then there are people who look at those lists & think "I can't possibly live up to those expectaions" so they whittle them down to what they consider important. I guess after I type it out, that's where the tolerance comes in. The list-whittlers are much more tolerant of things not on their list. But to me it's important to note that the tolerance itself is a reaction to something else - the expectations that to some people seem or are unreachable.

[cdrumm4448]

I've been thinking about this paragraph & trying to piece together a coherent response. I'm not sure how exactly you mean this in relation to the original situation, or even if you do. Can you explain that?

 

I think she might have meant to tie it to the original situation because some are taking her comments to the child as a criticism of his behavior and mom's parenting. We do live in a world filled with people who are the first to shoot you dirty looks when you're the one with the kid making a scene, but then freak out if you make any kind of remark considered a criticism or direction when it's them and their kid.

[mytwomonkeys]

OP, i think it was fine. addressing the mother probably would have felt more supportive, but it sounds like that little boy needed to be addressed as well. you were well-intentioned & truly felt bad for her. you were trying to stick up for the woman - not shame her. the good news is, even if it did upset her, i'm sure she has gotten over it much faster than this thread has, lol. :grouphug:

[FlockOfSillies]

I thought that was the biggest problem. You are the one who brought up the argument about his actions being limited to "his own family," so I was answering that objection. I didn't know about my dh's shoes until yesterday, fyi.

[FlockOfSillies]

Well, if it makes you feel better, I didn't specifically tell him to say sorry "right this minute." But I do hope he did it when he had some time to think about it and say it sincerely.

[Impish]

"I understand that, but someone is going to get hurt so he really needs to stop." Then if she doesn't intervene, get the guard. I believe in giving the parent the opportunity to be the parent. If they don't, then someone else needs to be.

I think narrowly missing hitting babies in the head with weighted diving rings made the danger pretty obvious. *shrug*

[Lily of the Valley]

We were at the park last summer and dd9 was playing at the splash pad. Several children were running around with cups throwing water on each other, including my dd.

 

At one point, another girl (about 9 or 10 years old) decided it would be funny to repeatedly throw water in my dd's face. Dd got upset and came running over to tell me. I told her to tell the girl she didn't like it and to please stop. She did, and the girl threw water directly in her face again.

 

I took dd by the hand and walked over to the girl with her. I had no idea who was supervising the girl, so I very nicely said, "My daughter asked you not to throw water in her face, so please stop." The girl's mother came storming over to me, got right in my face and started yelling at me for daring to get onto her daughter. I tried explaining what happened, and she continued yelling at me and threatened to beat me up!

 

Maybe it would have been better for me to ask the girl where her "adult" was before saying something to her, but I wouldn't have had an issue with someone addressing my daughter the way I addressed this girl.

 

I think it's a sad thing that children are being raised to think that the only people they ever have to listen to are those in whatever small circle they belong to. Actions do have an affect on other people, and when those actions affect me I am going to say something! I will be kind about it, but I will address a child just as I would another adult if they were doing something similar.