LibraryLover Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) True, but some churches are HUGE. Attending the same church is no guarantee that they would recognize you at all. Still not the same as stalking babies at Walmart, which might more likely to lead to a bad outcome. Sitting by a mom to hold a babe (who might not be old enough to be afraid of a strange woman ;)) as the mom juggles lots of small children during an Easter dinner at church doesn't seem something that it would lead to a bad outcome. Maybe there should be no mega-churches for this very reason. :D Edited April 25, 2011 by LibraryLover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crissy Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Maybe there should be no mega-churches for this very reason. :D Given all RM has shared about her home and life in the past, I can't imagine she attends a mega-church anyway. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 Given all RM has shared about her home and life in the past, I can't imagine she attends a mega-church anyway. :) It's not a mega, but it has grown in past years so that we don't all know each other as well as we used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) Given all RM has shared about her home and life in the past, I can't imagine she attends a mega-church anyway. :) And the world is so very complicated, isn't it? This could also easily be a post here: "I was at church on Easter Sunday trying to juggle my 6 little kids during dinner, and not one person offerred to help me. There I was, crying toddler, baby in my arms, trying to cut my 4 year old's meat...and people just ignored me. I wanted to cry. What is wrong with people today?" Edited April 25, 2011 by LibraryLover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 That was a very nice offer! But I would have turned you down as well. I'm sorry! Same here, but I wouldn't take it personally. Most women I know don't let others (except family) hold their kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dulcimeramy Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 The worls is so very complicated, isn't it? This could also easily be a post here: "I was at church on Easter Sunday trying to juggle my 6 little kids, and not one person offerred to help me. There I was, crying toddler, baby in my arms, trying to cut my 4 year old's meat...and people just ignored me. I wanted to cry. What is wrong with people today?" I thought of that, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindergretta Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 The worls is so very complicated, isn't it? This could also easily be a post here: "I was at church on Easter Sunday trying to juggle my 6 little kids, and not one person offerred to help me. There I was, crying toddler, baby in my arms, trying to cut my 4 year old's meat...and people just ignored me. I wanted to cry. What is wrong with people today?" Nice. :glare: (You edited this while I was posting. Originally is said, "Now I await the post that says...") We attend a big small church. IOW, there are around 100 of us on a weekly basis. Yesterday, for Easter, we had over 300 people. (Free egg hunt, open to the public) Even all of us who all know each other didn't know everyone roaming around. Could the mom have been exhausted to the point of confusion? Not recognizing a regular? Just a thought. My babies wouldn't ever go to anyone. They screamed!! But my last one, she would have let you hold her. And even now at 3, if you gave her some time to warm up to you, she would cuddle you like you have never been cuddled! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Still not the same as stalking babies at Walmart, which might more likely to lead to a bad outcome. Sitting by a mom to hold a babe (who might not be old enough to be afraid of a strange woman ;)) as the mom juggles lots of small children during an Easter dinner at church doesn't seem something that it would lead to a bad outcome. Maybe there should be no mega-churches for this very reason. :D Like I said, I agree. I'm just saying that just b/c someone attends the same church doesn't mean they recognize you at all. There are so many things that could be happening behind the scenes for this mom, you just have no way of knowing. One of my best friends had a micro-preemie. He died 4 mths after his birth. When she had her 2nd child, she couldn't let him out of her sight. I'd known her for about 10 yrs at that point, we'd been through Hell and back together...but when I held her child, she paced anxiously, couldn't sit still...didn't relax until he was back in her arms. Had nothing to do with *me*, she loves and trusts me. Had everything to do with losing her first child. She couldn't leave him with her inlaws, at nursery at church, nothing. Things just aren't as cut and dried for some as for others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Nice. :glare: No, it's *not* nice that the world is so very complicated. It makes it hard for people to know how to help, and what is appropriate to suggest. I wouldn't think years ago people would be as worried about a fellow church member wanting to help a mother with lots of little kids. What's the right thing to do? And is anyone safe these days? It makes me sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'smom Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I have a lot of children and I have had a lot of little ones at one time and I do not let anyone hold my babies unless it is a very close friend or family member. I would not care that I could not get a bite to eat. Well as I reflect on my history as a mom...- that is not totally true(that I do not ever let people hold my babies)- but in that exact situation-I would most likely have acted the very same way... or maybe let an older church mom hold my baby- but still felt uncomfortable and weird. I do not enjoy other people wanting to "help" me in that way- especially when it is really about them. I.e.- they just want to hold a baby. It is totally not to offend the person. I am sincerely UNCOMFORTABLE with just anyone holding my babies and cuddling them, etc. We also have a child (now eight and a half) with severe, life threatening food allergies (since the time he was a wee baby) and that has very much altered my life experience and what I am comfortable with. Also- and this is said gently- I do not feel like my babies need to satisfy someone else's need for a "baby fix." I really don't. I have never looked upon other people to help me or meet my need that way when dealing with lots of young children. That is me... My husband and I tag team and work as a team together in all those situations. Also- women- especially older women can be so critical and possessive with other people's children- wanting you to feed them this, thinking you need to do that, holding them this way or whatever. I find it frustrating. I also do not like my babies smelling like someone else's perfume, clothes, etc! So- there is another perspective for you! But it certainly is NOT personal. From the others side...;) Rebecca This is the exact opposite of me. When my ds was born, we were involved in a small group bible study. One of the girls was always trying to 'give me a break'. If she had wanted a 'baby fix', I'd have been more than happy to let her hold him. But she didn't seem to want that- she was always acting like she thought I needed a break. I didn't. But I was more than happy to let people (that I knew) hold him if they wanted to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindergretta Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 No, it's *not* nice that the world is so very complicated. It makes it hard for people to know how to help, and what is appropriate to suggest. I wouldn't think years ago people would be as worried about a fellow church member wanting to help a mother with lots of little kids. What's the right thing to do? And is anyone safe these days? It makes me sad. It is sad. I am just not sure what the answer is. :confused: No one wants to risk their own dc's safety to reverse the trend because icky people are out there. (And how often do we hear on the news, "He was the nicest guy!! I never would have thought..." ::sigh::) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) I certainly would not want to offer to help someone, only to then have her so upset, with me not knowing her first baby died. I am not being snarky. So many things can go wrong, and people don't know what to do anymore. It seems that certain behaviors used to be culturally acceptable (help & accept help from church members/ strangers, in this case), and they aren't so much any more. Like I said, I agree. I'm just saying that just b/c someone attends the same church doesn't mean they recognize you at all. There are so many things that could be happening behind the scenes for this mom, you just have no way of knowing. One of my best friends had a micro-preemie. He died 4 mths after his birth. When she had her 2nd child, she couldn't let him out of her sight. I'd known her for about 10 yrs at that point, we'd been through Hell and back together...but when I held her child, she paced anxiously, couldn't sit still...didn't relax until he was back in her arms. Had nothing to do with *me*, she loves and trusts me. Had everything to do with losing her first child. She couldn't leave him with her inlaws, at nursery at church, nothing. Things just aren't as cut and dried for some as for others. Edited April 25, 2011 by LibraryLover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 It is sad. I am just not sure what the answer is. :confused: No one wants to risk their own dc's safety to reverse the trend because icky people are out there. (And how often do we hear on the news, "He was the nicest guy!! I never would have thought..." ::sigh::) I think risk assessment is helpful. Do I let my kid walk out of the church with a stranger? No. If a woman sees me juggling a bunch of little kids at a church dinner table and asks if she can sit by me and help, maybe by holding the sleeping baby while I tend to the toddler who is needing me? With her sitting by me? I think I would see that as a yes situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindergretta Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I think risk assessment is helpful. Do I let my kid walk out of the church with a stranger? No. If a woman sees me juggling a bunch of little kids at a church dinner table and asks if she can sit by me and help, maybe by holding the sleeping baby while I tend to the toddler who is needing me? With her sitting by me? I think I would see that as a yes situation. True, but look how many people have heart attacks when they find out the mall Santa is a child molestor and their child sat on his lap or was held by him. Nothing inherently icky happened, but the knowledge that this person is so nasty makes us cringe to have our dc in contact with them. But I do agree with a risk assessment. My own personal risk assessment is - do I know you? I've never met you? Probably not going to happen unless I get a really good vibe off of you, kwim? (And I think I have a reasonable chance of my dc not screaming their head off and becoming inconsolable for the next 20 minutes...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I certainly would not want to offer to help someone, only to then have her so upset, with me not knowing her first baby died. I am not being snarky. So many things can go wrong, and people don't know what to do anymore. It seems that certain behaviors used to be culturally acceptable (help & accept help from church members/ strangers, in this case), and they aren't so much any more. She didn't get upset with ppl, she simply said, "No." and then had to deal with folks being upset with *her*. Her MIL threw fits like you wouldn't believe. I completely agree that things have changed, and so not for the better. We've become isolated to such a huge degree in today's society. So few of us know our neighbours, we stand alone instead of having community support. It *is* sad. I would love to be in a place where I had community support. It would make a huge difference in my life, in the lives of my children, but I haven't figured out how to go about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) I am thinking the situation of one mother holding one infant isn't the OP situation. It was a situation of a mother juggling lots of little kids who looked like she could use a hand. I don't think it's the same thing as someone coming up to a mother who isn't needing help , and asking to take her baby. I'd have answered differently if that had been the case. These threads so often present extreme situations. :) She didn't get upset with ppl, she simply said, "No." and then had to deal with folks being upset with *her*. Her MIL threw fits like you wouldn't believe. I completely agree that things have changed, and so not for the better. We've become isolated to such a huge degree in today's society. So few of us know our neighbours, we stand alone instead of having community support. It *is* sad. I would love to be in a place where I had community support. It would make a huge difference in my life, in the lives of my children, but I haven't figured out how to go about that. Edited April 25, 2011 by LibraryLover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I think the problem at hand isn't whether the mom needed help or should have handed over her baby - she said no, that should be the end of the story. The problem at hand is Remudamom's need for a "baby fix." I don't have an answer for that one :tongue_smilie:. Perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree, but I am sensing some resentment or other negative feeling, and maybe it would help to get to the bottom of it. I would wonder whether the reason the encounter hurt is because Remudamom's need went unrecognized, as well as unfulfilled? Just thinking out loud.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Which begs the question whether we humans, as a community (village church etc) have any responsibility at all to fill such human needs. Is there a role, outside the family, where an older woman done with childbearing and child care, can serve younger mothers in need in such settings? Safety seems to be an issue with some folks, so how do we deal with that? It's perfectly OK to refuse help, of course, but what if one does really want help, but is afraid something bad will happen if she accepts the help? I think the problem at hand isn't whether the mom needed help or should have handed over her baby - she said no, that should be the end of the story. The problem at hand is Remudamom's need for a "baby fix." I don't have an answer for that one :tongue_smilie:. Perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree, but I am sensing some resentment or other negative feeling, and maybe it would help to get to the bottom of it. I would wonder whether the reason the encounter hurt is because Remudamom's need went unrecognized, as well as unfulfilled? Just thinking out loud.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 There was only one time I ever let a stranger hold my baby. It was when I was flying on an airplane with my oldest, who was 6 months at the time. I had to go to the bathroom and a nice older lady said she would hold him for me while I was in the bathroom. Since we were 35,000 feet up I figured she wasn't going to go anywhere with him and there were other passengers and a flight attendant in plain view. :001_smile: I just wouldn't do it, period. Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I am thinking the situation of one mother holding one infant isn't the OP situation. It was a situation of a mother juggling lots of little kids who looked like she could use a hand. I don't think it's the same thing as someone coming up to a mother who isn't needing help , and asking to take her baby. I'd have answered differently if that had been the case. These threads so often present extreme situations. :) I'm just suggesting different, behind the scenes reasons why someone might say no...reasons that have nothing to do with the person offering to help. Which begs the question whether we humans, as a community (village church etc) have any responsibility at all to fill such human needs. Is there a role, outside the family, where an older woman done with childbearing and child care, can serve younger mothers in need in such settings? Safety seems to be an issue with some folks, so how do we deal with that? It's perfectly OK to refuse help, of course, but what if one does really want help, but is afraid something bad will happen if she accepts the help? I wish I knew. Truly. I would have loved to be able to have had someone to turn to, especially when a kidney infection landed me back in the hospital when Princess was less than a day old, and Wolf had to go out of province 3 days after I got back home. I have no answers, but can totally understand the need and desire on both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinivanMom Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) I think the problem at hand isn't whether the mom needed help or should have handed over her baby - she said no, that should be the end of the story. The problem at hand is Remudamom's need for a "baby fix." I don't have an answer for that one :tongue_smilie:. Perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree, but I am sensing some resentment or other negative feeling, and maybe it would help to get to the bottom of it. I would wonder whether the reason the encounter hurt is because Remudamom's need went unrecognized, as well as unfulfilled? Just thinking out loud.... I agree. It doesn't matter why the mother said no. She didn't want or need anyone to hold her baby. That should really be the end of it. The OP's desire for a "baby fix" is her own issue. Of course we should care for the needs of our older church ladies, but in this setting it wasn't the young mom's responsibility to take care of the OP. The mother wasn't rude . . . or unkind . . . or uncaring. She just didn't care to pass off her baby . . . for whatever reason. I'm a little surprised at how critical people are of the mother. I NEVER let people hold my babies. It isn't because they are strangers and I'm afraid of what will happen. It isn't because I have sick babies who could die from a passing cold. It isn't because my babies have extreme stranger anxiety. It isn't because I'm selfish and don't care about the emotional needs of older ladies. I just don't care to pass my babies around. When people offer to "help" me by taking my baby, I just say no with a smile. What can I say . . . I like holding my own babies. It doesn't bother me that people ask, because some people do want a hand with their baby (and would be upset no one offered:tongue_smilie:). It does bother me when older ladies ask with a condescending, critical manner like they think I am not handling my children well or when they get snarky over my polite no. :glare: Some older ladies are not always kind in the way they speak to younger moms. I was recently told off for not needing more "help" at the time my youngest was born. It was not kind. Obviously, I'm not talking about most people who offer to hold a baby. I'm sure the OP was just trying to help (and was kind in her manner). The older ladies who treat young moms with kindness and respect are priceless (and I have been known to let them hold my baby on rare occasions . . . as long as no one else is in a position to see it and start getting ideas). ;) Still . . . there's nothing wrong with this mother saying no. Edited April 25, 2011 by MinivanMom Edited for clarification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 Wow. I never minded anyone holding my babies in my presence. Sometimes they wanted to help and sometimes they just wanted to cuddle a baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsBasil Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Wow. I never minded anyone holding my babies in my presence. Sometimes they wanted to help and sometimes they just wanted to cuddle a baby. :grouphug: I'm with you. I have a 2 year old and I've been fine with letting him be held, play with, or be cuddled by people when I was asked or I needed help. And once at the Dr.'s office because the older woman who was there with her husband seemed enchanted by him. She asked me to please let her play with him and I did. When he was called back she thanked me and said all her babies were grown up or gone and she had none in her life now. Her smile when she played with my DS....oh! I've been blessed often by offers from other people at church and often from people I don't know all that well or just met. Everyone's different though, so it's hard to know what's going on. I bet the other mom didn't mean it personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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