Enough Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Probably a stupid question, but oh well. :) I see a lot of people with mathy kids using Singapore, and I'm wondering if it can be used by kids with regular-ole-math-skills-and/or-talents? (My kid is the latter.) I ask because my DS is using Miquon and sometimes Math Mammoth, and these are fine, but he has specifically asked for word problems. From the samples on the singaporemath.com website, it looks like the SM workbooks have lots of word problems. (Compared to Miquon and MM, at least.) I am talking about just the regular workbooks, e.g. 2A etc, not the book with all the really hard word problems. :tongue_smilie: I want to order one, but I want to make sure it's not going to be super challenging for him. TIA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I think the key is just to continue practicing. If you start with word problems early and avoid the "Eek! A word problem!" attitude, I think kids can handle them without trauma. I don't think the word problems in the Singapore texts (Standards edition) are extreme. Some of the CWP problems are... and definitely some of the IP problems are. I think an average child can handle Singapore math. I would definitely be prepared to add in extra practice as needed though. I know my son has needed more practice on certain topics. The Extra Practice book has been helpful and the Spectrum math books have been as well. If you're comfortable with MM, you might just get the CWP books. I don't know if you'd also want a teaching book for you (one of the Model Approach books) but if you're just looking to add in word problems, give a CWP a chance. You can focus on the regular problems and keep the "challenge" problems as challenges :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravinlunachick Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Math difficulties (and the accompanying loss of self-confidence) were the main reason that we had to pull my dd from public school. She didn't have really firm number sense past 10, and subtraction was a big mystery to her. Singapore has been WONDERFUL for her! She finally gets it. I swear I could see the lightbulb come on when she realized that number bonds allow her to do both addition and subtraction within a fact family! It may be that Bug just needed to approach math in a different way, but I'm really and truly glad that we started with it. It has made a world of difference. She's not yet in 2A, but there's a good mix, IMO, of word problems and traditional math equations in the regular book. I did also buy the Intensive Practice book, and it's worth the money for us. There's a lot more word problems in it than the regular textbook and workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Probably a stupid question, but oh well. :) I see a lot of people with mathy kids using Singapore, and I'm wondering if it can be used by kids with regular-ole-math-skills-and/or-talents? (My kid is the latter.) I ask because my DS is using Miquon and sometimes Math Mammoth, and these are fine, but he has specifically asked for word problems. From the samples on the singaporemath.com website, it looks like the SM workbooks have lots of word problems. (Compared to Miquon and MM, at least.) I am talking about just the regular workbooks, e.g. 2A etc, not the book with all the really hard word problems. :tongue_smilie: I want to order one, but I want to make sure it's not going to be super challenging for him. TIA. I don't think you have cause for concern. The teaching in the Textbooks/Workbooks is very straight-forward and not something aimed only at the "math apept." The supplimental books called Intensive Practice are more challenging. Parents often use these books "behind" depending on their childs strengths and needs. Some of the IP material is not "that challenging", but there is a subset that are diabolical. These also have a fair number of word problems. The CWPs (the ones that have the "really hard" word problems) actually start out with problems that are not really hard at all. They incrementally build the skill of using the bar-method to solve problems. Now the problems build in complexity (and some of the hardest ones get posted on this forum because they have stumped the parents) but, with the exception of a few really hard ones, the CWPs are not really "hard" if you start at the beginning and slowly and deliberately build the skills. I would not be afraid of using the CWPs. They are commonly used a year behind. One could start two years "behind" if necessary. But this bar diagram is not about "super-genius" math abilities. It is about developing a strong method of problem solving that is not beyond a "normal" child. After years of this they will be able to solve word problems that a child not raised with this method might have to be an intuitive math-genius to answer, but it is because they have learned a method and not because they have IQs that need to be off the charts. You need not fear the CWPs if you start at or near the beginning. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 If you're comfortable with MM, you might just get the CWP books. I don't know if you'd also want a teaching book for you (one of the Model Approach books) but if you're just looking to add in word problems, give a CWP a chance. You can focus on the regular problems and keep the "challenge" problems as challenges :) :iagree: I think this sounds right. I don't feel that there's a shortage of word problems in MM, but if you're looking for more, I'd try CWP. And no, I don't think Singapore is just for "mathy" kids. While some kids may seem more adept at math right off the bat, I hate to peg anyone as non-mathy - some kids need more time to develop certain kinds of thinking skills, some kids who would do well with math conceptually struggle with arithmetic and math facts in the early years, and some might not have a good curriculum fit. I prefer to give them all the benefit of the doubt and hope that with good, conceptual instruction, they may rise to the occasion. At any rate, if the intuitive leaps in Singapore are too big, you've already got MM right there to break the instruction into smaller increments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in CA Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) No, I think any student can learn Singapore Math. I think the difficulty lies in the teacher's understanding of math. (See Li Ping Ma's book.) That is, I had to learn a new way of thinking mathematically and new tools for problem solving to be able to teach it well. I had one mathy kid who understood the Singapore methods more intuitively and worked very quickly. I had another child who I would consider not a naturally "mathy" kid. Both are doing very well with Singapore, but I do notice a difference in how quickly they worked, and how quickly they were able to grasp a new concept. Both of them excel at bar-modeling after we took in intense month going through Bar Modeling, a Problem-Solving Tool, Har over the summer. Hope that helps! Edited April 21, 2011 by Jean in CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in STL Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I wouldn't say that it is only for mathy kids. My daughter could not memorize her addition and subtraction facts with Saxon, so we switched to Singapore, because I heard that it taught them differently. She learned them easily with their method. My son is more math oriented and he does well with Singapore, too. It is a different way of approaching some math concepts, so it just depends on what works best for the child. I think the programs you are already using are similar in their approach, if I'm not mistaken. Singapore does have a fair amount of word problems, some of which are challenging. If you take the time to learn the Singapore way to approach the word problems, they are very doable. Especially in the regular books. The most difficult problems we have encountered are in the Intensive Practice books. The method for word problems is really explored in the 3A/B books, so it's a good idea to start using them at or before this level. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I do have children that seem to be math-adept. I agree that the textbook and workbook are not advanced. Singapore has a different approach, and compared to some programs are half a year ahead, but the difficulty of the problems is fairly standard IMO. The IP and CWP are a step up. Though there are other non-Singapore supplements (like Challenge Math) that are still a step up from most of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I agree that Singapore is not only for the "mathy". I skimmed quick so may have missed it but in the 'regular' SM books I've seen (1A-2B), there are no more word problems than MM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enough Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 It sounds like this will be a good fit for us, then! I will start with the CWP and go from there. The word problems in MM are fine, just not enough. I know, I can't figure out why DS is asking for MORE word problems either. :lol: That's only half-true... I think he likes to 'verbalize' math, if that makes sense?, to switch it to his left-brained, very verbal way of thinking. At any rate, if the kid is asking for more math work, I will not deny him.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Probably a stupid question, but oh well. :) I see a lot of people with mathy kids using Singapore, and I'm wondering if it can be used by kids with regular-ole-math-skills-and/or-talents? (My kid is the latter.) I ask because my DS is using Miquon and sometimes Math Mammoth, and these are fine, but he has specifically asked for word problems. From the samples on the singaporemath.com website, it looks like the SM workbooks have lots of word problems. (Compared to Miquon and MM, at least.) I am talking about just the regular workbooks, e.g. 2A etc, not the book with all the really hard word problems. :tongue_smilie: I want to order one, but I want to make sure it's not going to be super challenging for him. TIA. My son was mathy early on, but not so much now. He has weak spots, and I really appreciate SM for its thin text. Something he breezes through (area, volume, perimeter) doesn't have so much repetition he hates it, but things he needs help on (for some reason adding hours and minutes is killing him. Pounds and oz. okay, but not hours and minutes), I can take time out and do the extra bits, pull up worksheets from a website, etc. You can make it as challenging as you like. When we get bogged down on a topic (like the hours), I do those 3 or 4 days a week, and review or move ahead on simpler things the others. That way neither of us gets to hate the sight of the book. Nimble. I'd call it nimble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmoe Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Yup, just an average mathy kid or two using them here. We've been using Singapore from the beginning for my youngest three and never had an issue with talent not matching up with expectations from the curriculum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyD Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Isn't it the national curriculum in Singapore? I have to assume that it's designed for a wide range of learners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Singapore is great for math adept kids because it can be easily tweaked to meet their needs through using the Intensive Practice and Challenging Word Problem Books. Singapore is great for "average" kids because of its solid textbook/workbook components, with or without CWP, and possibly with IP for review, perhaps a year behind. Singapore is great for kids who need some extra time and help because of the games and supplemental activities in the HIGs and the Extra Practice books. Manipulatives can be purchased or made for the early years, and concepts can be approached from a number of different angles. It probably wouldn't be a good choice for kids who don't respond to a visual approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Isn't it the national curriculum in Singapore? I have to assume that it's designed for a wide range of learners.It was. They've since introduced (or at least permitted, as there are a number of programs published) a differentiated curriculum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamakimberly Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I think there are a variety of curriculum styles that work for our unique little ones with their differing needs. My very visual-spatial learning 6-year-old daughter was frustrated with Math-U-See. The blank white pages with text made her want to cry. See evidence... She was doing okay with the math, but just hating life. Enter Singapore. I swear it is like clouds opened up and the Hallelujah chorus was sung. This child is HAPPY about math again. She is EAGER to do her math in the morning and enjoys it. Will it last? I hope so! But I do know that Singapore meets her visual-spatial needs in a way that Math-U-See doesn't. MUS is a fine program for many kids but she was miserable. And I'm so thankful that there are so many options out there for us to choose from so we can give our kids the option to both learn AND enjoy the process of learning. I don't think you have to be gifted to use Singapore by any means. For us, no more math-related-tears is a good thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I think Singapore *makes* mathy kids! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennynd Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I think Singapore *makes* mathy kids! :iagree: I like this, Singapore make kids "think" math. NOT working on math. And if u think the kids need more practice, U always can get all the CWP, IP, ..etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Singapore does not have to be used only by "mathy" students. It can be a good choice for average students who "click" with the Singapore learning style -- you may just need to slow down a little and take more time going through it. And it can be a great supplement for most students. Our younger DS has always struggled with math. We tried Singapore early on, but it was too fast for him, and not visual enough for him. (Ultimately we found Math-U-See clicked for him.) However, even with our older "mathy DS (who loved both Miquon and Singapore), up until Algebra, we used other math programs and resources as supplements so they could see math from more than one point of view and really encourage "math thinking". Singapore really excels at that, so while younger DS did MUS as his "spine" we also had him do selected problems in Singapore 4A/B, 5A/B, and 6A/B as supplement. We used a Singapore level that was 1-2 years below the MUS level, so it was also like a review, but from a different perspective. It worked VERY well in helping him learn to think through word problems. Glad we used it! BEST of luck in finding a good complimentary math supplement to whatever "spine" math program you go with! :) Warmest regards, Lori D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satori Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 I think Singapore *makes* mathy kids! :iagree: I really think so! My daughter was not a mathy girl, until we started Singapore. I'm stunned by the difference it is making! We were using Math Mammoth before SM, and RightStart before that. I'm cutting/pasting something I just wrote on another homeschooling forum. Then we started Singapore. We both fell in love! My daughter, for the first time in her life, is excited about math, so much so that she talks about advanced concepts in everyday conversations, things we've never even covered yet (2-digit addition, multiplication, negative numbers). I'm stunned that this change came about after the switch to Singapore. It offers challenge to her in ways that other math never did - if you use the Intensive Practice and Challenging Word Problem books. It's exactly what we needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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