Is there any need to study grammar formally before upper elementary?

[poetic license]

After thinking about whether I'm going to do FLL or not next year, I got to thinking, why even bother to do grammar in early elementary? I feel like a lot of the basic info can be learned practically in the context of reading and writing.

 

After all, at this age, according to WTM recs, kids aren't supposed to be doing original compositions. Therefore I would see the need to study more formal grammar as they get older, towards upper elementary when they actually do independent writing. Even if the child does write her own pieces in the early years, presumably the grammar could be taught contextually as well then.

 

Am I missing something? Or perhaps this depends on the type of learner, and whether the child seems to internalize grammar without formal study? I'm thinking about language acquisition and how most of the conventions of the language are learned simply through frequent exposure, and not formal teaching, hence why I am thinking of delaying grammar.

 

I would be happy to know of others experience and when you think is the best time to learn grammar.

[Penelope]

I don't think of FLL 1-2 as formal study but as an introduction with emphasis on memorizing terms and lists.

 

I'm sure you don't have to start in first grade to master grammar. But if you follow a WTM approach, it makes sense. If you begin a foreign language in third grade, it's amazingly helpful to already know what parts of speech, subject, predicate, etc. are. If you are learning to write in third or fourth grade and need to talk about s-v agreement or a stronger verb or whether you need a comma, it's nice to already have the basic terms in place.

[Allearia]

So that by the time they get to writing original compositions they already know and have internalized a lot of grammar instead of starting both writing compositions and formal grammar at the same time. Studying formal grammar here is also very helpful for Latin and other foreign languages.

[Crimson Wife]

I think it's fine to do it either way. I personally choose to start FLL 1/2 whenever the child is a fluent reader because it's short (only 5 minutes or so) and I agree with SWB and JW about grammar stage kids being really receptive to that kind of memorization.

[Heidi]

I think FLL 1/2 was a waste of our time. :) I have no interest in drilling nouns at this age, but that's just me. We do our own memory work.

[PeterPan]

FLL took us very little time and gave a tremendous benefit later with the foundation. While your kids are young (5-7) you have more time in the schedule and such an ability to memorize. It just makes sense to do a lot of that now.

[Plagefille]

I agree, we do not do any formal grammar program in early elementary. I just point out things to them when doing copywork and teach them a few basic terms.

[Dmmetler]

I also think it makes sense to introduce subjects early because you may find your DC likes them! I hadn't expected my DD to love grammar as much as she does-but, now that I know that it's the structures of language that really engage and thrill her, I'm able to match other curriculum to that style-for example, Elementary Spanish wasn't nearly as successful with her as Spanish For Children, even though I consider SfC much drier.

[Tracy]

I am researching this topic, too, since dd just turned 6yo. Next year is the first year that we could do grammar.

 

So while I haven't made up my mind either, I thought I would share a perspective that I recently read that is on the other side of the spectrum. The author of TOG recently shared on of the TOG Yahoo groups that TOG suggests that one wait until the logic stage for grammar and then make it a concurrent study with Latin. For those that are mandated by law to do grammar before then, they recommend a program like Easy Grammar, because it is easy to do it and move on.

[blakereese]

I think FLL is much easier (and faster!) than something like Easy Grammar. We found EG to be painful! LOL My son was bored doing it, and so he didn't retain any of it.

 

On the other hand, we usually spend less than 10 minutes a day on FLL and he loves it. And he has retained everything and applied it to other subjects.

 

I don't think you have to start grammar in the grammar stage (OK, that just doesn't sound right! :lol:) but it doesn't hurt. If you use something like FLL that can be mostly oral, and is very gentle and easy to understand, then I think it is worth the few minutes a day. I wouldn't do a long, structured formal study or anything. Make it fun, and I think it will pay off later on.

[Pata]

Several years ago, I would have said no. Now that dd is getting older, I would say it's definitely worth the time, if you are following the WTM plan. It helps to know the parts of speech when learning Latin (or another foreign language). It is also helpful for them to have an understanding of basic grammar as they begin to write, keeps them from forming bad habits (ask me how I know that one :)). FLL is a quick and painless introduction to grammar, I really would recommend doing it, even if your unsure of the value of early grammar. You will see a payoff as they get older, at least we have.

[jewel7123]

:bigear:

[joyfulhomeschooler]

:bigear:

second guessing my recent decision on grammar lol

[poetic license]

I think the fact that it's an oral curriculum (am I right in understanding that?) makes me think it would be easy to try out. I'm trying to seek that balance between real-life applied learning (unschooling or relaxed style) and a workbooky style, which I had been mentally leaning towards as I plan for the next year.

[Diana B]

We are just about finished with FLL 1/2. I will be backing off for next year and just reviewing what he's already learned.

 

We did enjoy FLL 1/2, but my DS is getting really tired of the repetition / review. We've been combining lessons here and there to skip over some of it.

 

I think if you are comfortable enough with grammar that you can use good literature to teach the parts of speech, then that's all you need. But if you are like me and are lucky if you remember noun/verb, then it might be helpful. It is REALLY simple and fast.

[ChristusG]

DD is 6 and this year I've been going over simple grammar with her....things like noun/verb/adjective (we do Mad Libs often), where a period belongs in a sentence, what should be capitalized in a sentence, punctuation, etc. I want her to have a foundation so that when we really get into grammar, these things don't seem completely foreign to her.

[DarlaS]

I think FLL 1/2 was a waste of our time. :) I have no interest in drilling nouns at this age, but that's just me. We do our own memory work.

 

It can be, but this particular approach has reminded me there are some things I need my student to know that are easily forgotten. We are using Growing with Grammar as our main program, and it's just grammar & usage at this level.

 

I decided he had a good grasp of parts of speech, capitalization etc. from GWG, but went through the table of contents and highlighted things it didn't cover (or that I prefer to cover the FLL way). Things like our address, phone number, days of the week, months of the year, abbreviations etc. I do just a few minutes a couple times a week and plan to start him in FLL 3 in the fall.