Have you read Boys Adrift?

[ScoutTN]

I read it this weekend. Compelling and sad and scary too...

Anyone read this and make purposeful changes in your parenting?

Any ways that you are trying to change your community in response to what you've read in the book?

Anyone heard Sax speak in person? What did you think?

 

I found it encouraging in that homeschooling gives us freedom to let our son learn in ways and at a pace appropriate for him. He does not have to conform to a girl-oriented learning environment. Much easier to provide experiential learning as a homeschooler than a classroom teacher.

 

And that we do have healthy, responsible adult male role models for him in addition to DH. Church, extended family, good scouting programs, coaches etc. when he's old enough.

 

Avoiding plastic water bottles is easy enough, but I think that those endocrine disrupters are pervasive throughout our society and impossible to avoid altogether?

 

Avoiding ADHD meds and false diagnoses would seem to be much easier in a homeschooling setting than a traditional school one.

 

I haven't thought it through enough to talk to DH about it yet. (DH is not a reader so I only ask him to read a book once in a great while.) But I wonder what he and others in my extended family or friends would say if we encouraged DS to pursue a vocation as a tradesman or craftsman instead of college?! (Assuming that DS had inclination and abilities to do that. It's a long way off yet for us.)

 

Hoping I can use this info to help keep my son healthy and to impact my little part of the world somehow too....

[Alicia64]

Boys Adrift is sitting on my bedside table. It's from the library and I need to read it.

 

But I was also thinking, "well, my boys aren't in school. So maybe I don't need to read it."

 

What do you think?

 

Alley

[HeidiKC]

I think everyone with boys should read this book, and it doesn't have that much to do with whether or not they're in school. It is very interesting, I could hardly put it down! The author gives all sorts of shocking statistics about young men today compared to 50 years ago and how they are just not motivated. As I recall, only one of the reasons had to do with school (the problem was the early push for academics, academic preschools, etc.). There were several other factors such as CERTAIN drugs for ADHD (I don't recall which) or over-diagnosing this problem, video games, endocrine disrupters, and maybe a lack of the sort of society where boys have older men as a group to look up to?

 

FYI - he is not against medicating for ADHD, but he seems to make some good points about what type of doctor should administer the screening test, and what type of test should be used. Apparently it is common for inadequate testing to take place, resulting in misdiagnoses. Then he says that if your son does need to be medicated, which medications may cause problems (lack of motivation down the road) and which are ok. It was pretty scary reading about tests done on juvenile animals with certain drugs: they later quit the meds, but when the grew up they lacked motivation to hunt for food and to mate. This was AFTER they'd been on the meds.

 

Anyway, the ADHD is just a part of it. I think he gives 5-6 reasons for the problem with boys growing into men with such a lack of motivation. The part I found interesting was the lack of a group of men for boys to learn from. He talks about how societies throughout time have always had groups of men teaching boys to become men...and we don't have that now. He advocates for joining groups like Boy Scouts. Before I read that book I hoped my son would want to join Scouting (he did), but afterwards I decided I was pretty much going to somehow convince, bribe or force him to if he wasn't interested!

 

VERY powerful book. I've recommended it to so many people with boys, and everyone has been very moved by it and thankful to have read it.

[Alicia64]

Heidi -- I'll read Chapter 1 tonight -- thank you!

 

Alley

[Cindy in NY]

I'm only a few chapters in but I think it will cause me to make some changes with my boys. Changes I have already been contemplating but that sem even more important now.

[Anne in CA]

I really wish I had read this book when my son was seven instead of 15, but I do feel that I have a couple of years to improve my parenting with. The part of the book that upset me the most was exactly how bad Halo is for young men. Once it was explained clearly, I understood, but my son LOVES this game and it is now too late to pull it away entirely. My dh will never read the book and just doesn't see the problem, no matter how carefully I explain to him. I read him the part that should help, but he does not see how different Halo is from movies like Jaws that he watched as a teen.

 

Halo was introduced to my son at youth group and later the youth pastor responseable stopped Halo from being played at church events, but my son had become addicted already.

[DawnM]

Heidi,

 

I have not read this particular book, but I did read Raising Cain by Micheal Thompson, which I think is a great book about raising boys.

 

As far as scouts goes.....here is how we approach scouts....it is part of school for us. It is not an option and we incorporate a lot of the requirements into our homeschooling.

 

I have also told the boys that they are not allowed to get their drivers licenses until they finish Eagle Scout. So far they aren't that age and don't care, but I figure if I drill it in now, it will just be a given and not an argument. Eagle is expected.

 

Another consideration is the pack/troop chosen. We have been so blessed with a homeschool pack/troop where literally EVERY boy who is old enough has finished Eagle. The only ones who don't are the ones who leave our troop before they get to 18. Many have left to go to high school for example, but those who stay and get to 18 in our troop, 100% of them finish Eagle Scout. It is expected. The older boys (homeschooled) are very encouraging in helping the younger boys. They WANT to be there. It isn't perfect, but it is the best we have found.

 

We have 3 boys. We are a scouting family!

 

Dawn

 

 

 

I think everyone with boys should read this book, and it doesn't have that much to do with whether or not they're in school. It is very interesting, I could hardly put it down! The author gives all sorts of shocking statistics about young men today compared to 50 years ago and how they are just not motivated. As I recall, only one of the reasons had to do with school (the problem was the early push for academics, academic preschools, etc.). There were several other factors such as CERTAIN drugs for ADHD (I don't recall which) or over-diagnosing this problem, video games, endocrine disrupters, and maybe a lack of the sort of society where boys have older men as a group to look up to?

 

FYI - he is not against medicating for ADHD, but he seems to make some good points about what type of doctor should administer the screening test, and what type of test should be used. Apparently it is common for inadequate testing to take place, resulting in misdiagnoses. Then he says that if your son does need to be medicated, which medications may cause problems (lack of motivation down the road) and which are ok. It was pretty scary reading about tests done on juvenile animals with certain drugs: they later quit the meds, but when the grew up they lacked motivation to hunt for food and to mate. This was AFTER they'd been on the meds.

 

Anyway, the ADHD is just a part of it. I think he gives 5-6 reasons for the problem with boys growing into men with such a lack of motivation. The part I found interesting was the lack of a group of men for boys to learn from. He talks about how societies throughout time have always had groups of men teaching boys to become men...and we don't have that now. He advocates for joining groups like Boy Scouts. Before I read that book I hoped my son would want to join Scouting (he did), but afterwards I decided I was pretty much going to somehow convince, bribe or force him to if he wasn't interested!

 

VERY powerful book. I've recommended it to so many people with boys, and everyone has been very moved by it and thankful to have read it.

[HeidiKC]

Dawn - I read Rasing Cain as well. Another great one is "The Trouble With Boys", but it is more about school. I gave a copy to each of the kindergarten teachers at our school. A lot of it is about the push for early academics, reading in kindergarten, etc. It is really heartbreaking to read about the experiences of particular boys. Another powerful book. But I think of all the books I've read about boys, "Boys Adrift" is my favorite. I tried reading, "The Wonder of Boys", but just couldn't get through it.

 

Sounds like your Scout troop is great! I feel very lucky that we are also in a troop where a majority of the boys make Eagle, and most a young age. I also really like the leadership that is provided and the men are great. I know most of them from church/school. It'd be a bummer to be in a troop that had a low rate of obtaining Eagle. Hey - I like your rule about the driver's license! Or maybe some electronic he wants.... hmmmmmmmm.......

[HappyGrace]

If we don't do video games (ds8 doesn't even use the computer yet) or TV, or ADHD or any of that, is it still a good read?

 

In other words, can we glean much from it if we are unplugged homeschoolers with a boy who spends a lot of time outdoors and we know the importance of male role models?

 

It sounds really good, just wondering the above question (and I'm asking because I'm kind of overwhelmed lately but would make time to read it if it's new info.) Thanks!

[ScoutTN]

I think it's worth reading (from the library, at least) for anyone who has boys.

 

I'm not very far along on this parenting journey and I have only one boy.

Maybe moms with more experience will chime in.

[HeidiKC]

I think it's worth reading (from the library, at least) for anyone who has boys.

 

I think so, too. And my boys don't do much TV or video games, don't have ADHD and we do Scouts. But there is still the thing about our culture not having GROUPS of men for our boys, not just male role models (although those are very important). And the endocrine disrupters (plastics, etc.?). Fun stuff like that (ha!).

 

Anyway, I love the book and don't really think (maybe naively?!) that my boys are at risk of being "adrift", but it's still such an interesting read about a growing phenomenon that has huge implications for our society! All sorts of stuff like our boys falling further and further behind in numbers in AP classes, SAT scores, college graduates, post-graduate degrees, etc. And how scary is this for our country in the long-run, when we are not producing enough men who CARE or want to work hard or graduate? How will we compare to other countries? The statistics are pretty shocking. What do we do about it? I don't know, but it seems like something that everyone should at least be aware of.

 

I don't know that you need to be in a rush to read it, but do read it if you can!

[jld]

I haven't heard of this book, but it sounds like an interesting and worthwhile read. Thanks!

 

I don't think I would do boy scouts, by the way. Even though the boys don't see their dad as often as I would like (he works in another city and we only see him on weekends), I would still prefer that he be their principal role model and male companion.

 

Then again, if we found the right troop, maybe it would be okay.

[....]

I read this book a couple of years ago and it really changed my parenting approach with my son.

 

It also makes a compelling argument FOR homeschooling boys.

 

My son could've been an example for the book. He went to public school kindergarten, couldn't keep up with the academics, was taken out of class and taken to Special Ed, started to call himself "stupid", hated school and would start crying when it was time to get ready for the school bus. He actually went into a corner, laid down and fell asleep during class. They called me and had me drive over and take him home. 5 is just too young for boys to start school. And like the author says in the book, in a lot of countries, kids don't start school until 7. That makes much more sense.

 

And this was all in a 6 month time span. I withdrew him from ps and the school district acted like I was committing a crime or something.

 

He's in 3rd grade now, is a strong reader and has a very strong math/science bent. He's also very confident.

 

You have to read the part where they compare boys' brain CT scans with those of girls. Anyway, good book.

[HappyGrace]

Sounds like a great read-I will get it-thanks! :)

[HeidiKC]

 

I don't think I would do boy scouts, by the way. Even though the boys don't see their dad as often as I would like (he works in another city and we only see him on weekends), I would still prefer that he be their principal role model and male companion.

 

The author doesn't say that scouts or any other group should be a boy's principal role model/male companion - of course that is the father's job! But he's saying that in cultures past, groups of men/male relatives also played a big part in a boy's life and that usually isn't the case today. For one thing, it isn't as common for extended families to live near each other and see each other daily. Of course there are some exceptions to this, but for the majority of Americans this isn't what is happening.

 

So he's just suggesting that having additional adult males as a regular part of a boy's life is very important.

[HeidiKC]

My son could've been an example for the book. He went to public school kindergarten, couldn't keep up with the academics, was taken out of class and taken to Special Ed, started to call himself "stupid", hated school and would start crying when it was time to get ready for the school bus. He actually went into a corner, laid down and fell asleep during class. They called me and had me drive over and take him home. 5 is just too young for boys to start school. And like the author says in the book, in a lot of countries, kids don't start school until 7. That makes much more sense.

 

You have to read the part where they compare boys' brain CT scans with those of girls. Anyway, good book.

 

Have you read "The Trouble With Boys"? Wow - this sounds like it could have come from a page out of that book! Breaks my heart. I'm so glad he's doing so well now!

[Spryte]

I read this last summer, and couldn't put it down. I picked it up hoping to find a way to help our eldest son, who is adrift - he "failed to launch" and is now living with his Mom (he's my stepson) in a very bad situation. Since he's an adult we are limited in how to help him, and right now he prefers his particular lifestyle. The book did give me insight into him, in fact, it gave me chills. [sigh - just thinking of that makes me sad.]

 

More than that though, the book gave me a lot of ideas for our younger son. We don't have video games in the house (stepson was addicted to Halo, etc, on weekends with his Mom, but we never supported that addiction and did not allow them in the house - too violent). But Sax's book is so much more than that! The sections of Kindergarten and school alone are excellent.

 

Definitely a good library book, although I admit that this is one I have dog-eared, marked, and will keep long-term.

 

Interesting aside... Our eldest son's therapist has this one on his shelf, knows the author, and feels it's an important read. He's a substance abuse specialist, so admittedly he's in a niche - but still nice to have a professional "endorsement"!

[MariannNOVA]

I am picking it up from Barnes and Noble today. I noticed that I could get it on Nook, but I think I may want to be underlining and stuff so I want a hard copy.

[jec3113]

He also has written Girls on the Edge and Why Gender Matters. I have read all his books. He makes so much sense no matter what your situation there is good info to be taken away from his books.

[ScoutTN]

I think the book is relevant even for parents of only girls because our daughters need to have men to marry when they grow up!

 

And each of us can probably have a positive impact on our community by weighing in, even in small ways, against the destructive forces he discusses.

One boy helped can be a big difference!

[RoundAbout]

Thanks for the recommendation! I will have to check it out as it sounds very in line with my philosophy on raising a boy (see my sig).

 

I don't think we'll do scouts but my husband is a mountaineer/rock climber/mountain biker/skiier and an infantry Marine who has spent 13 years working in an all male environment so we have an over-abundance of male friends and most of his activities are full of men too. My husband also *never* watches TV (even sports), never plays video games, is very intellectually curious, and constantly reads at night. I couldn't ask for a better role model and hopefully my son will be able to tag along on DH's mostly-male adventure outings when he's older.

 

One thing I am very adamant about is NO video games EVER. I'm sure there's a way to use them responsibly but I'd just rather not go down that path at all and would prefer to avoid temptation. I know too many teen boys and grown men who build their social lives around gaming. In other forums I've read moms complaining about their sons' video game time. When asked why they don't just get rid of the game system, the response is often something like "Well my husband likes to play it several hours a night." Yikes. Not in my house.