Better Chinese

[katnorman]

With all the reading on foreign languages lately, I am wanting to start my daughter on Chinese. I have been reading about Better Chinese and checked out their website, but have a few questions for those that have used it.

I keep reading about Mandarin Chinese and is this Mandarin??

Also, should I get simplified or traditional??

And what do I REALLY need to start out??

Would getting the My First Chinese Word set (36 books plus audio CD), My First Chinese Words Workbook Set, and the Teacher's Guide (in English :)) be enough??

And what is the difference between the original teacher's guide and the new 2009 edition, beside a $50 price difference ;)

 

Okay, so kind of a lot of questions :001_huh:

Thanks, Katie

[Laura Corin]

I keep reading about Mandarin Chinese and is this Mandarin??

Also, should I get simplified or traditional??

 

 

So Mandarin Chinese is the most useful dialect of Chinese, and its name is often shortened to Mandarin. Most Chinese people in the world use simplified characters, however many people in the Chinese diaspora use complex characters. Simplified characters are used in mainland China and Singapore; complex in Hong Kong, Taiwan and in the Chinese communities of various other countries. I would choose simplified, to allow communication with the rising power.

 

I can't help you with the specifics of the course, but I highly recommend getting native speaker help when starting out the with the language: the initial pronunciation of the tones is crucial.

 

Laura

[*lifeoftheparty*]

Holy Cow!! THANK YOU!!

 

I have never heard of Better Chinese, but after looking at the samples I CAN NOT WAIT to get this program!!

 

I was a Chinese linguist in the Army and learned Mandarin at the Defense Language Institute. This program looks awesome! I love how it shows you the progression of how the characters evolved, and why they look the way they do. All the phrases and pinyin look correct.

 

Definitely get the simplified. We learned a bit of traditional, but only certain characters... most everything is done in simplified. You can always learn traditional later.

 

I am planning in buying the whole beginner package. I can't answer any other questions, b/c I haven't used it. I'm guessing it will be easier for me to teach, since I know the language, but I think you could do it, as long as you get any and all CD's... it may take you a while to learn how to pronounce everything.

[Satori]

Listening in...

 

Someone mentioned this program a few weeks back and I'm very interested. DH and I would love for our daughter to learn Mandarin Chinese.

[Cindyz]

We're looking at starting this over the summer as well. I'd like to find a local tutor but I've also heard that you can get decent tutoring via Skype as well. I'm in major research mode with all of this right now and would love to hear from others who have used this program.

 

If anyone has information about tutoring via the net, I'd love to hear about that as well!

Edited February 23, 2011 by Cindyz

[Pata]

I can't help you with the specifics of the course, but I highly recommend getting native speaker help when starting out the with the language: the initial pronunciation of the tones is crucial.

 

Laura

 

:iagree: My dd used Better Chinese with her native speaking tutor in the US. It's a decent program, but after living here, I would not teach Chinese without access to a native speaker unless I was fluent in Mandarin. The tones are critical to being understood and are very difficult to learn without a native speaker teaching you the nuances of Chinese pronunciation :).

Edited February 23, 2011 by Pata

[momchiroto2]

Totally interested in what others have to say about this program. I would love for my children to learn Mandarin.

[lmrich]

I would love to learn more as well!

[Crimson Wife]

We tried My First Chinese Reader and I can NOT recommend it because the TM is written in Mandarin and without it neither DD nor I could figure out what the lessons on the CD-ROM were trying to teach.:thumbdown: Complete waste of money and I turned it back in to the charter school almost immediately. Clearly the program is designed for native Mandarin speakers to teach American-born children.

[Cindyz]

We tried My First Chinese Reader and I can NOT recommend it because the TM is written in Mandarin and without it neither DD nor I could figure out what the lessons on the CD-ROM were trying to teach.:thumbdown: Complete waste of money and I turned it back in to the charter school almost immediately. Clearly the program is designed for native Mandarin speakers to teach American-born children.

 

 

There is a teacher's guide in English. :)

[Bug's Mom]

We tried My First Chinese Reader and I can NOT recommend it because the TM is written in Mandarin and without it neither DD nor I could figure out what the lessons on the CD-ROM were trying to teach.:thumbdown: Complete waste of money and I turned it back in to the charter school almost immediately. Clearly the program is designed for native Mandarin speakers to teach American-born children.

 

It costs more, but you can get the teacher's manual in English.

 

I started out with this program with my daughter and love it. She's now going to Chinese school on Saturday afternoons at the local university, but we are still working on Better Chinese at home. She has her dad's ear, so was able to get the tones just from listening to the CDs.

 

When her teacher saw the books, she liked them more than the ones that they're using. I like that when they introduce new words you first get the character and the pinyin, but in the following chapters, they only use the characters. It forces you to learn them and not rely on the pinyin.

 

I've got some links on my blog, too, that you might like: http://thebugslife.blogspot.com/p/mandarin-chinese-links.html

 

[Crimson Wife]

It costs more, but you can get the teacher's manual in English.[/url]

 

Where? The charter school's vendor, Childbook.com, does not list an English-language TM

 

I might consider giving it another try if we can get a TM that I can actually use.

[Bug's Mom]

Where? The charter school's vendor, Childbook.com, does not list an English-language TM

 

I might consider giving it another try if we can get a TM that I can actually use.

 

BetterChinese.com

 

edited to add: I just found them on ChildBook, too. http://www.childbook.com/SearchResults.asp?searching=Y&sort=5&search=my+first+chinese+reader&show=10&page=1&f-English=375 I had to do a search, as they didn't show up with the other Better Chinese books.

Edited February 23, 2011 by BugsMom

[crazyforlatin]

BetterChinese.com

 

edited to add: I just found them on ChildBook, too. http://www.childbook.com/SearchResults.asp?searching=Y&sort=5&search=my+first+chinese+reader&show=10&page=1&f-English=375 I had to do a search, as they didn't show up with the other Better Chinese books.

 

I think ChildBook has free shipping over $25, but I didn't see anything like that at Better Chinese.

 

Did anyone else decide to try the program? I'm about to make a purchase for the 36 books and level 1, but was also looking at mzchinese.org which is only about $15 per level and haven't yet found an English manual.

[HopeFox]

Better Chinese looks great, so glad that you mentioned it!

 

My 9yr old has been learning Mandarin for 4 years. My 5yr old just started this year. We have made the most progress with private tutors, but they are expensive. The most economical progress has been made by attending a Chinese School for children at our local University that meets on Sundays. We started out with Rosetta Stone but found that after a while the sentences were getting too long for a young child to repeat or follow. His Chinese School class first used a curriculum popular in China that introduces pinyin and character writing, but it was hard for those of us with no native speaker in the home. Last year he was placed in an intermediate CSL class, they used the level of Active Chinese designed for high schoolers -- including video sequences about picking up girls for a date and going out partying, ack!

[JadeOrchidSong]

I taught My First Chinese Readers (36 little books) for a year to adopted kids from China. I had to do a lot of planning myself. The TM is useless. The good thing about the books is that there is only one sentence on one page and the vocabulary is used over and over again so kids have time to learn them. I chose a few easy characters to teach. The CD is good for learning the pronunciation and the CD-rom is not great because if the students can't read the characters, they don't know which picture to choose to match them. It is more or less a guess.

I also reviewed Better Chinese's regular texts following the 36 readers for MN Chinese standards. They are so boring that I can't imagine myself teaching it.

I designed some units myself to go with the Chinese holidays and also American holidays. In the end, when it was time to choose the next level for the next year, we went to Confucius College to peruse their Chinese curricula and I had to quit because all of them were boring.

I am so sorry that I sound so negative. Teaching Mandarin has proven to be the most challenging.

I am teaching my own two kids Chinese using Liping Ma Chinese. Yes, she is the same person who wrote that famous book on teaching math. It is the only NOT boring Chinese textbook out there, but it is designed for kids with Chinese parents. It is extremely challenging because of the huge amount of reading. Characters are taught for two years before any Pinyin is introduced so that students don't depend on Pinyin as a crutch to read. Most kids who learn pinyin first usually choose to read the pinyin rather than the real characters because pinyin is much easier to read. However, knowing pinyin only and not the characters doesn't get you anywhere because nothing in real life is written in Pinyin. Pinyin is usually/only in picture books for young children who are learning to read.

I can't offer good suggestions. I am just here to share what my experience is like. I just wish Mandarin were as easy to teach as Latin.

Edited June 12, 2011 by aomom

[crazyforlatin]

I taught My First Chinese Readers (36 little books) for a year to adopted kids from China. I had to do a lot of planning myself. The TM is useless. The good thing about the books is that there is only one sentence on one page and the vocabulary is used over and over again so kids have time to learn them. I chose a few easy characters to teach. The CD is good for learning the pronunciation and the CD-rom is not great because if the students can't read the characters, they don't know which picture to choose to match them. It is more or less a guess.

I also reviewed Better Chinese's regular texts following the 36 readers for MN Chinese standards. They are so boring that I can't imagine myself teaching it.

I designed some units myself to go with the Chinese holidays and also American holidays. In the end, when it was time to choose the next level for the next year, we went to Confucius College to peruse their Chinese curricula and I had to quit because all of them were boring.

I am so sorry that I sound so negative. Teaching Mandarin has proven to be the most challenging.

I am teaching my own two kids Chinese using Liping Ma Chinese. Yes, she is the same person who wrote that famous book on teaching math. It is the only NOT boring Chinese textbook out there, but it is designed for kids with Chinese parents. It is extremely challenging because of the huge amount of reading. Characters are taught for two years before any Pinyin is introduced so that students don't depend on Pinyin as a crutch to read. Most kids who learn pinyin first usually choose to read the pinyin rather than the real characters because pinyin is much easier to read. However, knowing pinyin only and not the characters doesn't get you anywhere because nothing in real life is written in Pinyin. Pinyin is usually/only in picture books for young children who are learning to read.

I can't offer good suggestions. I am just here to share what my experience is like. I just wish Mandarin were as easy to teach as Latin.

 

Thank you for sharing. In fact, I do have some Chinese workbooks already, so I'm going to take a closer look at them later. But Ms. Ma's website is completely in Chinese, right? I don't even know what button to press to place the order :D. If I did order from her website, I could find someone to teach while I watch and learn.

 

Oh yes, I remember I had a question: Does Ms. Ma's program have a CD?

[crazyforlatin]

I just looked at Ma's website and had google translate it for me. So, it's quite an expensive program, about $60 per grade (1-8) and $40 for preschool.

[icedlatte]

We use Better Chinese. It's Mandarin and for us, we chose the simplified version. (When we visited China, that's mostly what we saw so we decided to go with that.)

 

I started DD with the "I Love Chinese" set which was easier than "My First Chinese Words". We have a bundle package, but mostly use the small books, CDs that came with them (for pronunciation) and the song CDs. DD just loves the songs. I have the teacher's manual in English, but have difficulty putting it to use.

[JadeOrchidSong]

I just looked at Ma's website and had google translate it for me. So, it's quite an expensive program, about $60 per grade (1-8) and $40 for preschool.

It is very well worth it. You may have to take at least one and a half years to go through the first level and two years for the second level. The HEART of this program is the CD-ROM. Kids get the best pronunciation from listening and reading the sentences/rhymes/stories once a day and they memorize them. The rhymes and stories are very very engaging and age appropriate while the traditional Chinese programs done in China for non native speakers are all very dry and boring with no stories to speak of. Also they expect students to be able to read AND write all the new characters in each lesson. On the other hand, Ma Liping wants students to learn to read with minimal writing (4 characters a lesson) before they write much and to learn characters before Pinyin. They are exposed to more interesting stories and content than other programs. However, it does take a native speaker to teach this and everything in the textbook and student homework books is in Chinese.

By the end of Grade Two, students will have homework for the summer to learn Pinyin from the CD-ROM, which my kids like a lot and is a very good way to learn Pinyin. Grade Two is significantly harder than Grade One because of the long texts and the long supplementary reading. However, the CD-ROM again is a life saver because you can listen to and read along the stories. In fact, that is how my older boy (8) learns all the vocabulary. He has great ear for what I say to him. I read the stories sometimes for him to translate into English and he does great. He is almost done with Grade Two, which has taken two full years. I can't say he can read well the characters he learned. But I see the benefit of listening to the stories and the vocabulary he developed from them that he wouldn't normally have from daily conversation with me. I am guilty in that I don't speak enough Chinese to ds. I teach everything in English except when it is Chinese lesson time.

So here you go. If you know any Chinese near you who uses Ma Liping Chinese, it would be good to see the actual books and ask that person if it is doable for you and your kids. At this point, I can't really recommend it to you since it does require a native speaker to teach it and a parent who can help with the 4x/week homework. If you know decent amount of Chinese, you are probably ok to teach it at home with a Chinese tutor doing the first teaching once a week.

Edited June 13, 2011 by aomom

[crazyforlatin]

It is very well worth it. You may have to take at least one and a half years to go through the first level and two years for the second level. The HEART of this program is the CD-ROM. Kids get the best pronunciation from listening and reading the sentences/rhymes/stories once a day and they memorize them. The rhymes and stories are very very engaging and age appropriate while the traditional Chinese programs done in China for non native speakers are all very dry and boring with no stories to speak of. Also they expect students to be able to read AND write all the new characters in each lesson. On the other hand, Ma Liping wants students to learn to read with minimal writing (4 characters a lesson) before they write much and to learn characters before Pinyin. They are exposed to more interesting stories and content than other programs. However, it does take a native speaker to teach this and everything in the textbook and student homework books is in Chinese.

By the end of Grade Two, students will have homework for the summer to learn Pinyin from the CD-ROM, which my kids like a lot and is a very good way to learn Pinyin. Grade Two is significantly harder than Grade One because of the long texts and the long supplementary reading. However, the CD-ROM again is a life saver because you can listen to and read along the stories. In fact, that is how my older boy (8) learns all the vocabulary. He has great ear for what I say to him. I read the stories sometimes for him to translate into English and he does great. He is almost done with Grade Two, which has taken two full years. I can't say he can read well the characters he learned. But I see the benefit of listening to the stories and the vocabulary he developed from them that he wouldn't normally have from daily conversation with me. I am guilty in that I don't speak enough Chinese to ds. I teach everything in English except when it is Chinese lesson time.

So here you go. If you know any Chinese near you who uses Ma Liping Chinese, it would be good to see the actual books and ask that person if it is doable for you and your kids. At this point, I can't really recommend it to you since it does require a native speaker to teach it and a parent who can help with the 4x/week homework. If you know decent amount of Chinese, you are probably ok to teach it at home with a Chinese tutor doing the first teaching once a week.

 

Thank you! Do you think it's fine to start with Grade 1 or should we start at the preschool level? We've taken a year-and-half of Chinese already. I may call them tomorrow to ask for more details. At this time, I really want DD to read more than write. Even with copywork and dictation, I can't ask her to write more than 2-3 sentences.

 

I can find someone to tutor the both of us.

[crazyforlatin]

One more question:

 

Do you think the font size is comfortable for a young child? I had to drop another program because the characters were too small and I felt it would be a strain on DD's eyes.

[JadeOrchidSong]

One more question:

 

Do you think the font size is comfortable for a young child? I had to drop another program because the characters were too small and I felt it would be a strain on DD's eyes.

The font size is age appropriate. My younger boy is now 6 and he can read it well enough.

I do have strong reservations about recommending this to anyone who is not a native speaker because it is quite parent intensive and it is written for overseas Chinese families in mind. Lots of reading and grammar in it will need the parent to read with/explain to the child. You need to peruse the sample and do CALL the company that sells it with questions you have. It progresses quite fast and Grade Two is very very hard with very long stories as texts. There is no pinyin or very little English in any of the workbooks or the textbooks until Grade Three. I couldn't sleep well when I thought of the possibilities that you might already have purchased this. Please ask the selling company questions you have and I hope they will really be able to help you make a decision. I hope I don't mislead you in any way.

[crazyforlatin]

I couldn't sleep well when I thought of the possibilities that you might already have purchased this. Please ask the selling company questions you have and I hope they will really be able to help you make a decision. I hope I don't mislead you in any way.

 

:D

 

Don't worry, Aomom. I do have someone who will help us. I have the motivation to learn along. I'm also considering Better Chinese still (even if it may be boring) since there may be some days where we will need to take a break from an intense study of Ma's book. I'm thinking of stretching Year 1 into 1.5 years.

[lewelma]

I am going to stick my neck out here. I have taken Latin, Spanish, and Japanese. Mandarin pronunciation is a different kettle of fish, and I am not just talking about the tones. You need to get a native speaker to correct your pronunciation, or you will just be speaking barely-understandable gibberish (obviously this won't be true if you are gifted at languages). This person does not have to be a tutor who runs a "program" for you. All you need is the pronunciation. We have a woman who works at the library who speaks mandarin and our martial arts teacher does too. But you could also look for a local high school student, a friend, someone at church, or just put an add out for a volunteer. I have definitely found that Mandarin speakers WANT to teach others about their language.

 

Good Luck,

 

Ruth in NZ

[JadeOrchidSong]

I am going to stick my neck out here. I have taken Latin, Spanish, and Japanese. Mandarin pronunciation is a different kettle of fish, and I am not just talking about the tones. You need to get a native speaker to correct your pronunciation, or you will just be speaking barely-understandable gibberish (obviously this won't be true if you are gifted at languages). This person does not have to be a tutor who runs a "program" for you. All you need is the pronunciation. We have a woman who works at the library who speaks mandarin and our martial arts teacher does too. But you could also look for a local high school student, a friend, someone at church, or just put an add out for a volunteer. I have definitely found that Mandarin speakers WANT to teach others about their language.

 

Good Luck,

 

Ruth in NZ

:iagree:One word with the pronunciation of "ma" can have maybe 40 meanings depending on the context it is used in as well as its tones. There are 4 tones for each character, and the pinyin with one tone alone has over ten different characters and meanings. It is amazing any non native speaker can learn it without the immersion method. My dh is American and went to China to teach English for two years. He self studied two hours a day (too much time on his hand because he only had to teach 12 hours a week) with me correcting his tones a little once in a while. He didn't have any audio tools. Of course he was immersed in the language. He is a music major and has great ear for tones. He now can understand 90% sermons in Chinese (which can be really abstract language wise) and converse with ease.

 

I would say maybe the preschool book and the Grade One book can work. But be prepared to jump ship and do not go on to Grade 2 because it is prohibitively impossible to do. My son struggles a lot with it. I will look for other options after Grade 2. I might purchase Grade 3 for the listening and vocab, but certainly the reading will be near impossible.