annabanana1992 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 We are on week 19 of WWE4 with DD9 and DS11. They both have gone through all the previous levels. Narrations are fine, but we are all worn out with the long dictations. I have watched SWB's video with her son so I know it can be arduous. We also use MCT for writing and the rest of our language arts. Please, someone, remind why this torture needs to continue...:lol: I am ready to just curl up on the couch for a nice MCT discussion and put this dictation behind us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blessed3x Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorbackmama Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Are you using the workbook or the textbook? According to the textbook, in week 19 the dictations should be 2-3 sentences long (or a short paragraph). It would be less than 25 words long because in weeks 21-27 the dictations are to be short paragraphs about 25-30 words long. I personally found that the workbooks' dictation passages were insanely long, which is why I stopped using them and just started using the textbook instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annabanana1992 Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 We are dreading, I mean using, the workbook! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorbackmama Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 We are dreading, I mean using, the workbook! Yep, that's why I DON'T use it anymore.;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Ok, obviously I haven't gotten there, so I don't know personally how arduous they can be with my own kids, BUT - this is a super important skill to cultivate for me. Knowing how to hold those thoughts in your head is absolutely CRUCIAL for effective writing and note-taking in the logic and grammar stages. Seriously, as a former High School teacher, the one with the best skills in this area wins in terms of studying and writing (and standardized testing if that matters to you). Maybe listening to the SWB MP3 on writing would help refresh your motivation for continuing WWE 4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 We are on week 19 of WWE4 with DD9 and DS11. They both have gone through all the previous levels. Narrations are fine, but we are all worn out with the long dictations. I have watched SWB's video with her son so I know it can be arduous. We also use MCT for writing and the rest of our language arts. Please, someone, remind why this torture needs to continue...:lol: I am ready to just curl up on the couch for a nice MCT discussion and put this dictation behind us... Shorten them or do them in smaller sections. Personally I don't think this is the only way one can work on memory skills. I am not even convinced it is the best way, which is why I do dictation word by word. I am not known for having the best memory, but I have never had problems taking notes or remembering what I want to say, but I use visualization to remember not holding words in my mind. In fact until recently I haven't had the ability to see words in my mind at all. I discovered my 3rd dd had the same problem and we are using a program that develops the ability. Most of the time I "see" it in my mind and if I need to see it again I just re-visualize it so I can fill in my notes or fill in my writing. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallory Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 :iagree: I've decided that the dictations in WWE 4 are too long. ;) I don't think that you have to remember that long of a passage word for word to take notes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeOrchidSong Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Can you try to cut it to half or 2/3 instead of doing the whole dictation? You can always modify. My 8yr2mos ds is doing WWE 2 Lesson 24. He prefers dictation to copywork. So I just dictate the sentence to him. I never write his narration for him to copy even for WWE1. He just writes his narration by himself after he narrates orally for me to check if he includes all the important points. That is how I tweak it. My ds (6yr1mo) writes one sentence after the narration passage rather than my writing it for him. He has been doing dictation AAS 3 now, so he can do it. My point is that you can tune it up or down based on what your dc can handle without ditching the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my2boysteacher Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 We only made it to level 3 before I scrapped it. I decided to just make up my own dictation from their history narrations. I am trying to streamline, and WWE got the boot. :D That being said, I'm VERY glad we used it, it taught me how to guide my kiddos through the narrations, dictation and copywork, now we are able to apply that to other subjects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorbackmama Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 We only made it to level 3 before I scrapped it. I decided to just make up my own dictation from their history narrations. I am trying to streamline, and WWE got the boot. :DThat being said, I'm VERY glad we used it, it taught me how to guide my kiddos through the narrations, dictation and copywork, now we are able to apply that to other subjects. Actually, it sounds like you're using WWE the way it was intended to be used.:D Siloam - I agree with you. I think there is a difference between the ability to hold your words in your head so you can write and holding SOMEONE ELSE'S WORDS in your head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Siloam - I agree with you. I think there is a difference between the ability to hold your words in your head so you can write and holding SOMEONE ELSE'S WORDS in your head. LOL! Yes! I could get the message of the sentence across, but it wouldn't be the same words. I was doing some copy work the other day and once again I was changing a, the, this, then and such. It ended up having the same message, but not the same exact words. :D Heather p.s. For those who might not know I am dyslexic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I am not known for having the best memory, but I have never had problems taking notes or remembering what I want to say, but I use visualization to remember not holding words in my mind. In fact until recently I haven't had the ability to see words in my mind at all. I discovered my 3rd dd had the same problem and we are using a program that develops the ability. Most of the time I "see" it in my mind and if I need to see it again I just re-visualize it so I can fill in my notes or fill in my writing. Heather I think this is the same idea though, just in a visual sense, which also works well. I just have had way too many students who couldn't hold words in their head either visually or verbally and that is a big problem, especially as you approach higher ed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I just cut the dictation into two parts. I try to stretch my son's abilities without making him too stressed. He plans on joining a theater company next year. I just tell him it is good practice for learning his lines. I was glad to see the longer dictations. Memory work comes very easily to my son. It is good to see him challenged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom0012 Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) Today, in WWE 3, we had a very long dictation passage. I decided I was not going to stress over it. IMO, my daughter does fine with dictation and there was no reason for her to hold a 4-line, 7-comma sentence in her head just so she could write it down. I just sold WT1 and now, after being reminded of the length of the dictation passages in WW4 and after recently reading the thread about WWE not being a full writing program, I am seriously regretting it. Hopefully, I will feel differently tomorrow. Can anyone who is doing the testing of the next level -- Writing With Skill -- give us a synopsis of what is in those lessons? More dictation and narration or something completely different? Lisa Edited February 4, 2011 by LisaTheresa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5LittleMonkeys Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 My oldest can paraphrase the passage that I have read, up to a several paragraphs. She can't write word for word but can pick out the most important information. Isn't that all that is needed for being able to take notes? Who takes notes from a lecture word for word? As for writing, who needs to hold whole paragraphs in their head? I write from notes or an outline or I just type as the thoughts come into my head and then go back and revise. I can see training a dc to hold a couple of sentences in their head but a whole paragraph or more seems a bit much. I would much rather my dc be able to pull out pertinent info on the fly and write that down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truebluexf Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 We're still in level 2, but I've listened to her lecture and it all just makes sense to me. That said, I'm really not going to require my kids to do dictations that are that long. I think the 2 sentences we do now in WWE2 are fantastic and help him pay attention and memorize (especially since we don't get all those looooong poems really memorized in FLL3...) I actually now plan more to finish with WWE2 and work on WWE3 on my own, I think, using what I've learned from the workbook and her lecture, and probably buy the text for reference. I'd rather work this into our history and literature next year, and maybe even science so it's more applicable and not a standalone subject for 4th grade (though DD1 will likely reap the benefits of this too in 2nd grade). I too am curious what the next level holds, and whether we'll decided to use that or move onto WT or some other program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marie in Oh Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 We got to week 18 and just decided that the dictations were getting ridiculous. So, my new plan is to do WWE through level 3 (which my new plan is to not start level 1 until 2nd) and finish level 3 in 4th, and then move to Meaningful Composition for 5th-8th. You are not the only one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorbackmama Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Tafter recently reading the thread about WWE not being a full writing program, Can you expound upon this? I've found it very thorough for the ages it's intended for or for remediating older kids, but I may be completely ignorant LOL. (If you happen to remember what the thread is called, that's fine too.:D ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom0012 Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) Can you expound upon this? I've found it very thorough for the ages it's intended for or for remediating older kids, but I may be completely ignorant LOL. (If you happen to remember what the thread is called, that's fine too.:D ) Here's the thread: http://welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241850&highlight=mp3. I had recently asked if WWE was enough for writing because it doesn't seem complete to me, but this thread made me realize what is missing. Lisa Edited February 4, 2011 by LisaTheresa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsiew Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I've had similar thoughts! ;) My kids really dislike dictation. They do it, but it's neither of our favorite things. I almost decided to scrap WWE4 for my 10 y/o, but we continue on. Mostly because I can see HUGE leaps in his writing. We just did a horribly long one today with lots of big words. I read it to him a couple times, then repeat sections of it and have him learn a section at a time. He's able to get most of it in his head so I wait to have him write until we reach the end. If he wasn't able to do that I would dictate a section, then have him write... dictate another section... have him write.... I do have to say that even though we don't favor dictation, there is a HUGE sense of accomplishment in my kids when they make it through a long one. My dd had one today that was one sentence with 7 commas!!! We took it section by section and by golly... that kid did it with a little help from me. My ds had a tough one today (the stretching ones with lots of words are especially hard) and he was pretty proud of himself when he finally did it. I told him to think back to when remembering one sentence was hard! He's come a long way! So.... we'll continue on. I see the benefits as his subject writing just gets better and better. He rarely has trouble remembering what he read and then coming up with a summary. I credit this entirely to WWE.... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallory Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Can anyone who is doing the testing of the next level -- Writing With Skill -- give us a synopsis of what is in those lessons? More dictation and narration or something completely different? I can't remember where I put the newest files but I am pretty sure the skills are- Narration, outlining, and writing from an outline. I don't remember any dictation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELaurie Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Ds 11 struggles with the dictation sentences in WWE. Ds 8 memorizes everything he hears with ease . . . I think SWB deliberately made the passages for dictation long enough to challenge even the precocious child - the one who remembers the sentences easily or loves writing. I break the sentences down into manageable sections for ds 11 because that's what 's appropriate for him. I challenge ds 8 to stretch his memory because he has the capacity to do so. After listening to SWB's videos on YouTube, I no longer feel obligated to do it "by the book" - I just do what works for us, and I can see that they are progressing and learning throughout the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aconnolley Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 This is really a timely thread for me. I have been pondering about what to use next year for writing. My 9yo son is in 4th grade and will be finishing up WWE 3 before next year. I started him in WWE 2 during the summer and we finished it up this fall. His narrations have greatly improved and he is able to put things on paper with much less difficulty. I am very happy with his progress. I am debating whether I should do WWE 4 next year or plow into another writing program. Or maybe do some WWE and some ?? for the year. My concern with plugging along with WWE 4 in 5th grade is that he still doesn't REALLY know how to write a paragraph. I definitely see the benefits of WWE and we love the exposure to different literature that we might never have read. On more than one occasion my kids have checked out a book from the library because they got hooked in WWE. :tongue_smilie: I am just concerned that he is missing some necessary skills. These are things that I am not comfortable teaching through other subjects. I really need a writing curriculum to guide me through it. Plus, my son resists any writing and it is so much easier to be able to say, "Today it says that you are suppose to do..." There is just less confrontation that way. :) I don't know where he gets the idea that "I" would over work him. :lol: I would be happy for any advice. At the beginning of this year, I wouldn't have been worried about paragraphs. He couldn't even summarize or come up with a coherent sentence. But I am wondering if I need to add something next year since he will be in 5th grade and can now get things onto paper with more ease. :) hmmm.... Angela Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taffnus Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I want to thank everyone here for posting. My dd 7 is in WWE2 and we had to put it away because she was strongly resisting the narrations and dictations from the workbook. I thought I'd just wait and start it again at the beginning of 3G. Because of this post, I went to the Peacehill website and downloaded SWB's MP3 on teaching writing to elementary kids and I am so glad I did. It really renewed my understanding of the program and gave me some fresh insight into what I was doing wrong and what I could change to make it all go more smoothly. First, I found myself getting frustrated when my dd, who tells everyone she has a photographic memory like Cam Jansen, can't remember a single thing from the narrations. I'd get angry and demand attention which, of course worked beautifully. :blink: I'd expect her to complete the dictations after just a couple repetitions and resisted repeating because, of course, she should have been paying attention.:smash: Hmmm.... So, I'm starting anew on Monday on Week 13, where we left off. Monday: brief cursive handwriting practice and narration from Stuart Little, which we're currently reading. Tuesday: Copywork of two sentences from Stuart Little following the same criteria as WWE Week 13. Wednesday: Dictation of either one or two of Tuesday's sentences. WWE2 gives 2 sentences but she says 1 for 2G in her lecture. Thursday: Coop Friday: Narration and dictation of 1 of her summary sentences. Also, I will repeat dictations as much as necessary, discussing punctuation that is included in the sentences, giving help wherever possible. SWB, I'm going to take you at your word. I'm sold on the theory; let's see if it works. :thumbup: Yay!! I think it just might. Not too much handwriting but some practice each day (which has been lacking) and all of the WWE components accomplished using our own passages, which she likes and has the story background to understand. We'll see if I'm still smiling on Friday. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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