Math curriculum help, please!

[Desert Rat]

My ds10.5 is advanced in math. We have finished Singapore PM last year and have moved on to NEM. Ugh! He's in tears every. single. day. I'm not understanding what's up. He grasps the concepts but he's having a hard time implementing them.

I sat with him for an hour yesterday working through 10 or so equations with variables. He seemed to be fine, so I went to work and later that night, I graded his assignment. He missed all but 2 out of 10. I was so sad! I was really proud of him because he showed ALL his work, which has been a struggle for him in the past, and I was sure to praise him and accentuate the things he did right. But, he made small mistakes here and there. I highlighted them and wrote out my reasons in the margin. He was in tears when I showed him today and his self esteem is really suffering. He finally completely broke down in sobs and I sent him to his room so both of us could cool off.

So, what should I do from here? I'm truly at a loss. A friend of mine recommended Life of Fred. If I go with these books, does anyone know what book I should start with? Money is an issue right now and I don't want to buy a book and have it be too simple, KWIM?

I think, for now, I'm going to take next week off of math with him and just do math games and puzzles to lighten it up. But I would really appreciate the Hive's imput and suggestions on where to go from here.

He's a very sensitive kid who has never had to work hard to learn anything until this point. It's a new and scary concept for him to be floundering. His self esteem has come a long way but still has far to go. (Just to give you an idea of what kind of kid I'm working with.)

 

Thanks for any advise you may have!

[Bird Girl]

You may want to give The Art of Problem Solving a look. It's designed to allow students to work through problems, rather than just learning the pattern and plugging in the numbers. The website offers links to articles and a web community for more help.

 

My kids are too young for this yet, but I've looked at it with an eye towards using it. I don't have experience with it, though.

[Dana]

My ds10.5 is advanced in math. We have finished Singapore PM last year and have moved on to NEM. Ugh! He's in tears every. single. day. I'm not understanding what's up. He grasps the concepts but he's having a hard time implementing them.

I sat with him for an hour yesterday working through 10 or so equations with variables. He seemed to be fine, so I went to work and later that night, I graded his assignment. He missed all but 2 out of 10. I was so sad!

 

I haven't looked at NEM, but I have taught algebra for a number of years.

A couple of ideas....

 

(1) Was he making errors when you were working with him? When grading his work, was he making similar mistakes? For instance - are his mistakes conceptual (not understanding like terms, "moving" terms from one side of an equation instead of adding the same thing to both sides) or careless (basic arithmetic errors). A possible solution here is to sit with him while he does the work and be sure he is getting the problems correct before letting him practice on his own. Another possibility is to do a few problems for him - giving explanations as you go - then have him explain what to do while you write out the work, and only then let him try a few on his own (with you checking step by step), and then give him an assignment to do on his own.

 

(2) Manipulatives! Algebra tiles may be useful. Two of my difficult points with algebra (where I clearly remember being in tears) were with understanding like terms (I couldn't see why x and x^2 were different - both had an x) and with solving linear equations (I wanted to do many steps in my head or with really sloppy scratch work). I think seeing a physical representation and writing the mathematical representation may have helped me with the transition.

 

Good luck!

[AngieW in Texas]

I would switch programs. While Singapore worked very well for my two older girls, I knew that NEM wasn't going to be a fit for either one of them, so I switched at that point.

 

Key to Algebra gives very clear instructions and is very inexpensive. If you have a local store that carries them, you can buy them piecemeal and not have to worry about how much it will cost if you end up abandoning it. It's more of an introductory algebra program, so you'd need to follow it up with a more rigorous Algebra I, but he's only in 5th grade, so there's plenty of time.

 

Algebra the Easy Way is story-based. It is fun to use as a supplement. The instruction is kind of light, but it's still fun to do.

 

I like Kinetic Books for Algebra I. Most of the problems have immediate feedback, so you don't do an entire page wrong and reinforce the wrong methodology. My oldest used their Algebra II while it was still in beta. My middle dd used their Algebra I when it was first released and is using their Algebra II right now. I would have my youngest in their Prealgebra, but she won't have anything to do with math that's on the computer.

[Storm Bay]

My 12 yo did the Russian math book from http://www.perpendicularpress.com after SM PM 6B. Although it is called gr 6, it is harder than SM 6. In additon, and I don't know if there are any in the sample, there are problems that give dc a lot of info and ask them to write a problem, without telling the dc what they need to find. ie, the dc decide what they want to find out and then make a problem to solve it using the given data. There are some other good things, too. She has told me more than once that this book was very good. After that, she whipped through LOF Beginning Algebra, and then went onto Foerster's Algebra.

 

I didn't think that NEM would be a good fit for her. Also, when she was 11 she didn't yet have the linguistic parts of math down well enough to move onto Algebra; the Russian math helped with that.

 

My eldest, OTOH, went a different route, and went straight to Algebra, just not NEM. She did much of SM 6 (no other SM) and had done Saxon math from 54 to 76. I won't bore you with her story, because I'm not sure that it would be applicable here.

[Desert Rat]

Thank you all for your responses.

 

Dana, he is making similar errors while working with me and working independently. Specifically, he isn't careful with his signs. However, I have noticed he's gotten a lot better over the last 2 chapters and isn't making mistakes as often.

 

I will take a look at all of the curriculum suggested. I think I'm going to just stop NEM completely and find somthing else. Ds's self esteem is far more important.

 

I'll check back again later if anyone else has suggestions.

 

You've all been very helpful. Thank you!

[regentrude]

Dana, he is making similar errors while working with me and working independently. Specifically, he isn't careful with his signs. However, I have noticed he's gotten a lot better over the last 2 chapters and isn't making mistakes as often.

 

Both my children, who are good at math and like it, had trouble with signs, especially multiplying positive and negative numbers and expanding expressions.

They did not have trouble understanding the concept, but they had trouble being careful about EVERY sign in EVERY term. For both, we could solve the issue by giving them lots of extra practice problems and going a bit slower with the new material. We would still progress in the book (mine used AoPS), but give them review problems for the sign issue a few times a week as well.

Both were very frustrated themselves that they kept making these mistakes, but it got better through practice and they both overcame that difficulty.

Be patient and encourage your son.

[Dana]

Dana, he is making similar errors while working with me and working independently. Specifically, he isn't careful with his signs. However, I have noticed he's gotten a lot better over the last 2 chapters and isn't making mistakes as often.

 

 

As you've heard, this is a common error.

One possible help is using a different color for a + than a - sign.

(Or hilighting all negative signs before the next step.)

[KAR120C]

As you've heard, this is a common error.

One possible help is using a different color for a + than a - sign.

(Or hilighting all negative signs before the next step.)

Both with DS when we were at that point and with my tutoring kids. If negative signs are a problem, they have to circle them, or write them in a different color, or whatever slows them down long enough to see where they are. (We do the same things with accent marks in other languages too!)

[KAR120C]

My ds10.5 is advanced in math. We have finished Singapore PM last year and have moved on to NEM. Ugh! He's in tears every. single. day. I'm not understanding what's up. He grasps the concepts but he's having a hard time implementing them.

If you're in the first four chapters, you should know that they really are trying to kill you with numbers.... ;) Trouble with that section might not predict trouble with the rest of the book.

 

If you're in Chapter 5 or later, I'd consider a new curriculum. At that point you're pretty much in the NEM "groove" and things aren't going to change a whole lot. But if you're in the first four chapters? That situation won't be permanent.

[Night Elf]

Both my children, who are good at math and like it, had trouble with signs, especially multiplying positive and negative numbers and expanding expressions.

 

Ditto. Dd12 was often in tears when she was making similar mistakes. I taught her to write out the problems with spaces between the terms to help her see the signs more easily. She has a tendency to write small. Also, I had to get her to slow down. She was so used to rushing through math problems because she always did them in her head.

[Desert Rat]

If you're in the first four chapters, you should know that they really are trying to kill you with numbers.... ;) Trouble with that section might not predict trouble with the rest of the book.

 

If you're in Chapter 5 or later, I'd consider a new curriculum. At that point you're pretty much in the NEM "groove" and things aren't going to change a whole lot. But if you're in the first four chapters? That situation won't be permanent.

 

Thank you for all your wonderful responses! I've been using highlighters to correct his work. What a great idea to have him use them to differentiate signs! I will definitely use that one!

 

I've read through all of your ideas and I've decided to definitely put NEM aside, perhaps permanently. I was not making him do every single problem in the exercises, usually only 1/3. But, I just don't want him to be miserable (and I don't want to hate his math either!).

 

So, I'm going to try Life of Fred Beginning Algebra because lots of people said it was "fun". We need something low key. If that doesn't work, maybe I'll just take a break and do puzzles, extra logic, etc. Then, we'll move on to AofPS.

 

Thanks so much for your help!

[Gratia271]

They did not have trouble understanding the concept, but they had trouble being careful about EVERY sign in EVERY term. For both, we could solve the issue by giving them lots of extra practice problems and going a bit slower with the new material. We would still progress in the book (mine used AoPS), but give them review problems for the sign issue a few times a week as well.

Both were very frustrated themselves that they kept making these mistakes, but it got better through practice and they both overcame that difficulty.

Be patient and encourage your son.

 

Oldest DD was the same. This approach worked with her.

[Storm Bay]

So, I'm going to try Life of Fred Beginning Algebra because lots of people said it was "fun". We need something low key. If that doesn't work, maybe I'll just take a break and do puzzles, extra logic, etc. Then, we'll move on to AofPS.

 

Thanks so much for your help!

 

 

This sounds like a good plan. We do more than one Algebra 1, and do it consecutively. LOF is fun and make you think.

[Desert Rat]

This sounds like a good plan. We do more than one Algebra 1, and do it consecutively. LOF is fun and make you think.

 

I ordered LoF yesterday. Hopefully, ds will like it. I do know that he will appreciate no math tomorrow when I announce it. (And I'm secretly relieved to not have to suit up for battle tomorrow. Ha!)

[Storm Bay]

I ordered LoF yesterday. Hopefully, ds will like it. I do know that he will appreciate no math tomorrow when I announce it. (And I'm secretly relieved to not have to suit up for battle tomorrow. Ha!)

:001_smile: My dc are always happy to have time off from a subject, too.

 

fwiw, my eldest hated math with a passion for many years; now it's her favourite subject (she's 15). This happened before we found LOF, but she certainly likes it the best.

[catz]

I ordered LoF yesterday. Hopefully, ds will like it. I do know that he will appreciate no math tomorrow when I announce it. (And I'm secretly relieved to not have to suit up for battle tomorrow. Ha!)

 

I tried to respond to this yesterday but the server hung up on me! I have a 10 year old who is using NEM 1. I would totally agree with the assessment on chapters 1-4. The first 2 especially seemed like torture for us - so slow. Now we're moving along at a fairly good clip and my 10 year old is happy with math again. I think we got over a big problem solving hump with him.

 

It's funny, I ordered LOF beginning algebra before NEM because I thought it would be a better fit for this year. My 10 year completely balked at the format. He just wants MATH - no additional commentary with his math books. I personally think it looks great! I've looked at AoPS and that seems very similar to NEM to me in terms of depth and problem solving. I knew we couldn't go directly from Singapore 6B to AoPS algebra, so I still might consider going in that direction later. The last month, NEM has suddenly become a good fit.

 

Good luck with LOF! :001_smile:

[Desert Rat]

Thanks for your response! I'm going to try going back to NEM at some point. I'll let everyone know how LoF goes with him. :)

[Storm Bay]

It's funny, I ordered LOF beginning algebra before NEM because I thought it would be a better fit for this year. My 10 year completely balked at the format. He just wants MATH - no additional commentary with his math books. I personally think it looks great!

 

Isn't that funny how it works? All 3 of mine love the story, but my ds can't do it on his own because he needs more auditory learning.

 

Thanks for your response! I'm going to try going back to NEM at some point. I'll let everyone know how LoF goes with him. :)

 

Yes, I'd be glad to know how it goes.

[StephanieZ]

I had the same lack of success with NEM with my oldest at that age. :( I know it is discouraging after such success & reliability with SM!

 

If you go with LoF, I'd go with either PreAlg or Beg. Alg, depending on how much challenge you & ds want. There is probably a placement test somewhere on their website.

 

We've used Thinkwell Int. Alg or PreAlg after SM successfully (again depending on how much challenge you want). LoF is much less expensive and also very well done, so might be better for you since cost is a concern right now.

[homemomandnild]

Late responding, however...

 

My oldest did Harold Jacob's Algebra before beginning NEM. My second child is finishing PM6 and doing LOF. We also had difficulty keeping the positives/negatives straight.

[wapiti]

Also, when she was 11 she didn't yet have the linguistic parts of math down well enough to move onto Algebra; the Russian math helped with that.

 

Karin, sorry to bother you with an older post, but would you mind expanding on this a bit? What was it about the Russian math that helped with the linguistics - was it the instruction, sheer practice, or something about how they worded things? I probably have another 1.5 yrs before I need a pre-algebra text, but I've long been interested in Russian Math 6. Would you expect a person to be able to go from Russian Math 6 right into something akin to Foerster?

 

Thank you for any thoughts you might have :)

[Storm Bay]

Karin, sorry to bother you with an older post, but would you mind expanding on this a bit? What was it about the Russian math that helped with the linguistics - was it the instruction, sheer practice, or something about how they worded things? I probably have another 1.5 yrs before I need a pre-algebra text, but I've long been interested in Russian Math 6. Would you expect a person to be able to go from Russian Math 6 right into something akin to Foerster?

 

Thank you for any thoughts you might have :)

 

In her words just now: "They had a lot of intersting and hilarious word problems that helped me understand the math." I suspect that the explanations helped, too, but she can't remember. I don't remember her laughing a lot at the time, so she may be exaggerating on the hilarious part a bit. They also have some different types of things we didn't see in SM.

 

My middle dd is the only one who has done this book so far, and since much of it was review (but harder and presented differently) she did most of it on her own and I checked the work (but not every single assignment.) She had already tested as ready for Algebra, but since she wasn't as strong in all of the fraction rules as I thought she should be and needed the linguistic help, I used it. It was a success. How much of it was the book, how much of it was what she said and how much of it was a developmental change I can't say, but I am sure it was a combination and that she wouldn't have done well in Algebra without that book or something that could have done the same thing coming next.

 

All of my dc have understood negative numbers intuitively. There was only one chapter where it nothing I said could help her do something showing the steps, so she watched one MUS PreAlg lesson (I had bought a used DVD), it clicked with her, and did it Mr. Demme's way, but that is quite typical of my dd. She refused to regroup when she was younger until she saw Mr. Demme do it (we supplemented SM with MUS for her.)

[wapiti]

Thanks Karin, that's helpful!! I'm still intrigued. :)

[EKS]

How about Jacobs Algebra?