Spy Car Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 I'm still a little confused. It is Sentence Composing for Elementary that has the proper gramatic nomenclature, yes? I've been looking at the Amazon previews and not see in it (rather "chunking" and the like). Do they just take up the formal grammar elements later in the book so I'm not seeing it? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjbeach Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 We have Story Grammar for Elementary Schools (Amazon) but we put it aside when my kiddos found the first chapter (focused on chunking) truly painful. We may pick it up again after the holidays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayt ul-Hikmah Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 Kathy, why painful? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 I'm still a little confused. It is Sentence Composing for Elementary that has the proper gramatic nomenclature, yes? I've been looking at the Amazon previews and not see in it (rather "chunking" and the like). Do they just take up the formal grammar elements later in the book so I'm not seeing it? Ah, yes - the first chapter is "Learning Sentence Imitating" which goes over chunking, unscrambling and combining. The specific grammar vocabulary starts on page 18 and continues throughout - see the TOC I listed earlier in the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 Ah, yes - the first chapter is "Learning Sentence Imitating" which goes over chunking, unscrambling and combining. The specific grammar vocabulary starts on page 18 and continues throughout - see the TOC I listed earlier in the thread. I will re-read the posts and try to get to page 18on the Amazon preview. I wonder who else dislikes the term "chunking" as much as I do? :D Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 I will re-read the posts and try to get to page 18on the Amazon preview. I wonder who else dislikes the term "chunking" as much as I do? :D Bill Yes. I dislike the term almost as much as I hate the word "slacks". LOL. I am trying to get more of a preview too; I'd like to determine which book, if either, introduces proper grammatical terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 Nope. I'm not looking at samples - I have the two books here in front of me. Those pages counts only include the student pages (although the SC book does have more white space). The Sentence Composing series has the answers at the back; the Grammar series has the TG download (and I have those too). But at the Elementary level, the SC book still has what looks to me to be more explicit instruction to the student about what you're actually doing with the sentences and the names of the sentence parts. In the Middle School level it's the other way around. Here are the TOCs - the two blue books and the two green ones are each from the same series: SC for E Learning Sentence Imitating Using Prepositional Phrases Using Appositive Phrases Using Participle Phrases Using Compound Verbs Using Adjective Clauses Using Adverb Clauses SG for E Imitating Story Sentences Sentence Parts - Subjects and Predicates Sentence Positions - Opener - S-V Split - Closer Writing Story Sentences Contrast this with Middle School level: SC for MS Sentence Unscrambling Sentence Imitating Sentence Combining Sentence Expanding (this last section does explicitly name and describe different types of phrases and clauses) G for MS Opening Adjective Delayed Adjective Opening Adverb Delayed Adverb Absolute Phrase Appositive Phrase Prepositional Phrase Participle Phrase Gerund Phrase Infinitive Phrase Adjective Clause Adverb Clause Noun Clause So Sentence Composing for Elementary Years looks more appropriate if one is looking for "proper grammar" usage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaKinVA Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 I like this, I really, really like this! It's the first writing program I've pre-viewed that I instantly "got." I was planning on doing (gulp) MCT next year, would adding Killgallon to that be too much? I would put my 3rd/4th grader together doing the elementary books, and then what about my 11yo? Is there anything he'd miss by not doing the elementary book (quickly), and then doing the middle school book? He's competent, but with his vocabulary could be oh, so much more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 So Sentence Composing for Elementary Years looks more appropriate if one is looking for "proper grammar" usage? Yes. In Story Grammar for Elementary, the proper names for different types of words, clauses, and phrases are intentionally not given. :confused: Here's a quote from the TG for SG in the clause section (emphasis mine): Almost all clause types are covered but intentionally unnamed in this worktext. This worktext focuses on building better sentences by using clauses as tools, not on naming them. However, clause names are given in other worktexts in this series: Grammar for Middle School: A Sentence-Composing Approach, and Grammar for High School: A Sentence-Composing Approach. As it says, in the middle school level all the grammar terms are used, and oddly, they are not used through most of the SC book for middle school (even though they are in the elementary level of the series). Looking ever more closely, it does seem that SG has more varied and perhaps slightly more challenging practice types than SC, but it doesn't use proper terminology. Ay, ay, what to do? I'm almost conisdering using the two books simultaneously, using SC to introduce the terms and then switching over to SG for more practice... And I am using MCT as well! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 I will re-read the posts and try to get to page 18on the Amazon preview. I wonder who else dislikes the term "chunking" as much as I do? :D Bill Me...it sounds like another term for puking, up-chucking, spewing, hurling...etc. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 Me...it sounds like another term for puking, up-chucking, spewing, hurling...etc. :tongue_smilie: We think alike :001_smile: Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 Looking ever more closely, it does seem that SG has more varied and perhaps slightly more challenging practice types than SC, but it doesn't use proper terminology. Ay, ay, what to do? I'm almost conisdering using the two books simultaneously, using SC to introduce the terms and then switching over to SG for more practice... And I am using MCT as well! :D If your student has been introduced to the various grammatical terms through MCT, it would be very easy to remind your student of them when doing SG. Where Killgallon talks about "S-V splits", for example, you can note that those are properly called "appositives". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 (edited) If your student has been introduced to the various grammatical terms through MCT, it would be very easy to remind your student of them when doing SG. Where Killgallon talks about "S-V splits", for example, you can note that those are properly called "appositives". Yes, this is true. It's what I'd been planning on doing (and had already started doing) till I saw the SC Elementary book did it explicitly, and I thought that would be clearer/more straightforward so thought I'd switch (I wasn't really paying as much attention to the difference in practice types till you pointed it out). I wonder why he took the grammatical terms out when he made the new Elementary book (when he actually uses them more in the upper level books of the newer series vs. the older ones?) :glare: Edited November 30, 2010 by matroyshka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 Me...it sounds like another term for puking, up-chucking, spewing, hurling...etc. :tongue_smilie: My favorite is "horking." Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaKinVA Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 Me...it sounds like another term for puking, up-chucking, spewing, hurling...etc. :tongue_smilie: See, all I can think about when it comes to chunking is my 9th grade year when we moved from California to Georgia. In CA, we "chucked" the ball (slang, meaning to throw). In GA, they "chunked" the ball. Every time the guys told me to chunk them the ball, I wanted to run screaming in mental pain from vocabulary misuse...chunk (in my mind) was either a noun (as in a chunk of ice) or a verb meaning to chop up (yup, that's what it means). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 We think alike :001_smile: Bill scary...huh? :D ~~Faithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFaerie Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 I think I just keep getting more and more confused as this thread goes on. Here's what I'm thinking for next year for DD (4th). I'm planning on Voyages in English 4 for grammar and I wanted to use Story Grammar for Elementary and Write 4 Today for writing. Will SG work as a writing program rather than a grammar program or is it just going to confuse her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 I think I just keep getting more and more confused as this thread goes on. Here's what I'm thinking for next year for DD (4th). I'm planning on Voyages in English 4 for grammar and I wanted to use Story Grammar for Elementary and Write 4 Today for writing. Will SG work as a writing program rather than a grammar program or is it just going to confuse her? It might confuse her if she encounters some concept in SG that VIE hasn't yet covered. I don't have VIE 4 so I'm not sure whether it covers some of the more advanced phrases & clauses. Gerunds & inifinitives are definitely in SG but Kilgallon doesn't name them as such. Might be pretty confusing to a child who is not yet familiar with those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFaerie Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 It might confuse her if she encounters some concept in SG that VIE hasn't yet covered. I don't have VIE 4 so I'm not sure whether it covers some of the more advanced phrases & clauses. Gerunds & inifinitives are definitely in SG but Kilgallon doesn't name them as such. Might be pretty confusing to a child who is not yet familiar with those. That sounds pretty advanced for elementary school at all. What age/grade do they recommend the Kilgallon books for? Maybe I'm misunderstanding them. Sounds like these might be better for 5th or even 6th grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Heinemann says 3rd-6th for SG but I'd say it's more towards the latter end of that range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFaerie Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Heinemann says 3rd-6th for SG but I'd say it's more towards the latter end of that range. Thanks. That's why I love this thread. I can find these things out BEFORE I waste money on something! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Heinemann says 3rd-6th for SG but I'd say it's more towards the latter end of that range. I'm using Sentence Composing with my 3rd graders and they love it. I'm also using with my 6th grader (because I want to tweak his writing) and he loves it as well although it is much less challenging for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFaerie Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 I'm using Sentence Composing with my 3rd graders and they love it. I'm also using with my 6th grader (because I want to tweak his writing) and he loves it as well although it is much less challenging for him. Do you use it as grammar or writing or both? I was looking at SG to use for writing while using something else entirely for grammar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted December 9, 2010 Share Posted December 9, 2010 Do you use it as grammar or writing or both? I was looking at SG to use for writing while using something else entirely for grammar. I've stopped grammar. I am using it strictly for help with writing. It's the way I taught them myself, but now I'm just not having to take the time to make it up. Cause I'm lazy like that. :D It really is a heck of a lot of fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 I am tempted to try Story Grammar first simply because it's cheaper (and hey, it's available on the Kindle!) Would that be a mistake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 It's designed to be a consumable worktext so unless you can print out from the Kindle (I don't have one so I have no idea if this is possible) or your student is willing to copy the exercises down onto notebook paper, I would get the paper version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne J Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 Me...it sounds like another term for puking, up-chucking, spewing, hurling...etc. :tongue_smilie: Now, see, I would say that "chunking" is something one does with a "punkin". You know, punkin chunckin'. Right? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 (edited) It's designed to be a consumable worktext so unless you can print out from the Kindle (I don't have one so I have no idea if this is possible) or your student is willing to copy the exercises down onto notebook paper, I would get the paper version. Wow-thanks for telling me LOL. I wonder why they would sell a Kindle Version? Maybe it's printable in its PC form? In any case, I'd probably have my son copy the work separately, as I'll need it for my younger down the line.... Edited December 11, 2010 by Halcyon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 It doesn't appear to me to be meant as a consumable worktext. The instructions are for the student to write out their sentence imitations. Even the sentences that are to be "chunked" are to be copied out first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeganW Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 Wow-thanks for telling me LOL. I wonder why they would sell a Kindle Version? Maybe it's printable in its PC form? In any case, I'd probably have my son copy the work separately, as I'll need it for my younger down the line.... I *just* got my Kindle, so I may be confused, but when you buy something for the Kindle from Amazon.com, does it give you a choice of which format you want it in? PDF or whatever? In that case, you could have it sent to your regular email instead of Kindle email, and print? Is that possible? Is it legal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKDmom Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 I *just* got my Kindle, so I may be confused, but when you buy something for the Kindle from Amazon.com, does it give you a choice of which format you want it in? PDF or whatever? In that case, you could have it sent to your regular email instead of Kindle email, and print? Is that possible? Is it legal? No, the Kindle has its own proprietary format (.azw). When you buy a Kindle book from Amazon, it is only in that format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanceXToo Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 You know, I've been lucky in that I don't really tend to have a "curriculum-buying addiction" (lol). I found Oak Meadow very early on, have stuck with it for a couple of years, and intend to keep doing so- I'm really happy with it. I don't get tempted to keep buying new curricula or to switch to something else, and haven't felt the need to do much supplementing etc. I decided on TT for math only because my older/used version of Oak Meadow didn't come with its own built in math curriculum from 5th grade on and suggested Saxon, which I didn't want to use, so I picked TT and I like it- I plan to stick with it. There's only been one time prior to today that I have bought something "extra/supplementary" after reading a thread on this board- and that was Times Tales a while back, in an effort to try to help my daughter memorize her multiplication tables, because nothing else I tried seemed to work well. (Times Tales didn't really end up being for us, btw). But now, I can officially say there have been two times. Thanks to this thread, I just purchased "Sentence Composing For Elementary School" and will add it on next month. I hope it's as good as it looks. :) P.S. I do also plan to purchase Life of Fred Fractions for next year after reading so much about LoF on this board- it sounds interesting/fun. So that'll be my third time. Hopefully that will be it lol- because I have no intentions of changing to a different curriculum and I really don't want to start supplementing with a bunch of different things, either. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcross222 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Do you think that Sentence Composing can stand alone as a writing course or would it be something to use in addition to something else? I already have a grammar only plan for next year, but was looking for something to add for writing instruction. Finally, I can't tell from the samples I've been able to find is it consumable or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFaerie Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Do you think that Sentence Composing can stand alone as a writing course or would it be something to use in addition to something else? I already have a grammar only plan for next year, but was looking for something to add for writing instruction. Finally, I can't tell from the samples I've been able to find is it consumable or not? I'm trying to figure out the same thing. I am going to use Voyages in English for grammar but it does have some writing exercises, too. So, I'm thinking I'll use Killgallon in conjunction with the writing parts of VIE as our writing curriculum. As for consumable, I think you're supposed to have them copy down the exercises, although I guess they could write in the book if you wanted. I'm planning on using it again for my younger child so I'll have DD copy the work onto paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcross222 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 :lurk5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Do you think that Sentence Composing can stand alone as a writing course or would it be something to use in addition to something else? I already have a grammar only plan for next year, but was looking for something to add for writing instruction. Finally, I can't tell from the samples I've been able to find is it consumable or not? It is a consumable workbook, but one could certainly have the student do the exercises on notebook paper. The primary focus is on sentence-writing so while it could certainly work as a stand-alone semester writing course, most folks would probably still want to continue on with something like WWE or other writing program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanceXToo Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 There is no place in the book to write, so I have my daughter use notebook paper. We have only done one lesson so far and I tend to be a much more relaxed homeschooler than many here, so I can't say whether someone would consider this enough of a writing curriculum to stand alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I bought this today using my discount on Lulu. :001_smile: Now, I finally get to hold it in my hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freerange Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 DH has convinced me to get Story Grammar for Elementary School from bookdepository.co.uk Fingers crossed that this one arrives! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 We use kilgallon WITH WWE and I think it's a nice combination. And Nance-those are my "additions" this year too: Kilgallon and LOF Fractions. And Times Tales. But we added Times Tales last year, so it doesn't count. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanceXToo Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 We use kilgallon WITH WWE and I think it's a nice combination. And Nance-those are my "additions" this year too: Kilgallon and LOF Fractions. And Times Tales. But we added Times Tales last year, so it doesn't count. ;) LOL I tried Times Tales too but it didn't really seem a good fit for us. Still, I pre-ordered the video, just in case lol. LoF Fractions we'll be doing next year rather than this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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