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I'm still a little confused.

 

It is Sentence Composing for Elementary that has the proper gramatic nomenclature, yes? I've been looking at the Amazon previews and not see in it (rather "chunking" and the like). Do they just take up the formal grammar elements later in the book so I'm not seeing it?

 

Bill

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I'm still a little confused.

 

It is Sentence Composing for Elementary that has the proper gramatic nomenclature, yes? I've been looking at the Amazon previews and not see in it (rather "chunking" and the like). Do they just take up the formal grammar elements later in the book so I'm not seeing it?

 

 

Ah, yes - the first chapter is "Learning Sentence Imitating" which goes over chunking, unscrambling and combining. The specific grammar vocabulary starts on page 18 and continues throughout - see the TOC I listed earlier in the thread.

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Ah, yes - the first chapter is "Learning Sentence Imitating" which goes over chunking, unscrambling and combining. The specific grammar vocabulary starts on page 18 and continues throughout - see the TOC I listed earlier in the thread.

 

I will re-read the posts and try to get to page 18on the Amazon preview.

 

I wonder who else dislikes the term "chunking" as much as I do? :D

 

Bill

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I will re-read the posts and try to get to page 18on the Amazon preview.

 

I wonder who else dislikes the term "chunking" as much as I do? :D

 

Bill

 

 

Yes. I dislike the term almost as much as I hate the word "slacks". LOL. I am trying to get more of a preview too; I'd like to determine which book, if either, introduces proper grammatical terms.

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Nope. I'm not looking at samples - I have the two books here in front of me. Those pages counts only include the student pages (although the SC book does have more white space).

 

The Sentence Composing series has the answers at the back; the Grammar series has the TG download (and I have those too). But at the Elementary level, the SC book still has what looks to me to be more explicit instruction to the student about what you're actually doing with the sentences and the names of the sentence parts. In the Middle School level it's the other way around.

 

Here are the TOCs - the two blue books and the two green ones are each from the same series:

 

SC for E

 

Learning Sentence Imitating

Using Prepositional Phrases

Using Appositive Phrases

Using Participle Phrases

Using Compound Verbs

Using Adjective Clauses

Using Adverb Clauses

 

SG for E

 

Imitating Story Sentences

Sentence Parts

- Subjects and Predicates

Sentence Positions

- Opener

- S-V Split

- Closer

Writing Story Sentences

 

Contrast this with Middle School level:

 

SC for MS

 

Sentence Unscrambling

Sentence Imitating

Sentence Combining

Sentence Expanding

(this last section does explicitly name and describe different types of phrases and clauses)

 

G for MS

 

Opening Adjective

Delayed Adjective

Opening Adverb

Delayed Adverb

Absolute Phrase

Appositive Phrase

Prepositional Phrase

Participle Phrase

Gerund Phrase

Infinitive Phrase

Adjective Clause

Adverb Clause

Noun Clause

 

 

So Sentence Composing for Elementary Years looks more appropriate if one is looking for "proper grammar" usage?

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I like this, I really, really like this! It's the first writing program I've pre-viewed that I instantly "got."

 

I was planning on doing (gulp) MCT next year, would adding Killgallon to that be too much?

 

I would put my 3rd/4th grader together doing the elementary books, and then what about my 11yo? Is there anything he'd miss by not doing the elementary book (quickly), and then doing the middle school book? He's competent, but with his vocabulary could be oh, so much more!

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So Sentence Composing for Elementary Years looks more appropriate if one is looking for "proper grammar" usage?

 

Yes. In Story Grammar for Elementary, the proper names for different types of words, clauses, and phrases are intentionally not given. :confused: Here's a quote from the TG for SG in the clause section (emphasis mine):

 

 

Almost all clause types are covered but intentionally unnamed in this worktext. This worktext focuses on building better sentences by using clauses as tools, not on naming them. However, clause names are given in other worktexts in this series: Grammar for Middle School: A Sentence-Composing Approach, and Grammar for High School: A Sentence-Composing Approach.

 

 

 

 

As it says, in the middle school level all the grammar terms are used, and oddly, they are not used through most of the SC book for middle school (even though they are in the elementary level of the series).

 

 

 

 

Looking ever more closely, it does seem that SG has more varied and perhaps slightly more challenging practice types than SC, but it doesn't use proper terminology. Ay, ay, what to do? I'm almost conisdering using the two books simultaneously, using SC to introduce the terms and then switching over to SG for more practice...

 

 

 

 

And I am using MCT as well! :D

 

 

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Looking ever more closely, it does seem that SG has more varied and perhaps slightly more challenging practice types than SC, but it doesn't use proper terminology. Ay, ay, what to do? I'm almost conisdering using the two books simultaneously, using SC to introduce the terms and then switching over to SG for more practice...

 

 

 

 

And I am using MCT as well! :D

 

 

 

 

If your student has been introduced to the various grammatical terms through MCT, it would be very easy to remind your student of them when doing SG. Where Killgallon talks about "S-V splits", for example, you can note that those are properly called "appositives".

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If your student has been introduced to the various grammatical terms through MCT, it would be very easy to remind your student of them when doing SG. Where Killgallon talks about "S-V splits", for example, you can note that those are properly called "appositives".

 

Yes, this is true. It's what I'd been planning on doing (and had already started doing) till I saw the SC Elementary book did it explicitly, and I thought that would be clearer/more straightforward so thought I'd switch (I wasn't really paying as much attention to the difference in practice types till you pointed it out). I wonder why he took the grammatical terms out when he made the new Elementary book (when he actually uses them more in the upper level books of the newer series vs. the older ones?) :glare:

Edited by matroyshka
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Me...it sounds like another term for puking, up-chucking, spewing, hurling...etc. :tongue_smilie:

 

See, all I can think about when it comes to chunking is my 9th grade year when we moved from California to Georgia.

 

In CA, we "chucked" the ball (slang, meaning to throw). In GA, they "chunked" the ball. Every time the guys told me to chunk them the ball, I wanted to run screaming in mental pain from vocabulary misuse...chunk (in my mind) was either a noun (as in a chunk of ice) or a verb meaning to chop up (yup, that's what it means).

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I think I just keep getting more and more confused as this thread goes on. Here's what I'm thinking for next year for DD (4th). I'm planning on Voyages in English 4 for grammar and I wanted to use Story Grammar for Elementary and Write 4 Today for writing. Will SG work as a writing program rather than a grammar program or is it just going to confuse her?

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I think I just keep getting more and more confused as this thread goes on. Here's what I'm thinking for next year for DD (4th). I'm planning on Voyages in English 4 for grammar and I wanted to use Story Grammar for Elementary and Write 4 Today for writing. Will SG work as a writing program rather than a grammar program or is it just going to confuse her?

 

It might confuse her if she encounters some concept in SG that VIE hasn't yet covered. I don't have VIE 4 so I'm not sure whether it covers some of the more advanced phrases & clauses. Gerunds & inifinitives are definitely in SG but Kilgallon doesn't name them as such. Might be pretty confusing to a child who is not yet familiar with those.

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It might confuse her if she encounters some concept in SG that VIE hasn't yet covered. I don't have VIE 4 so I'm not sure whether it covers some of the more advanced phrases & clauses. Gerunds & inifinitives are definitely in SG but Kilgallon doesn't name them as such. Might be pretty confusing to a child who is not yet familiar with those.

 

That sounds pretty advanced for elementary school at all. What age/grade do they recommend the Kilgallon books for? Maybe I'm misunderstanding them. Sounds like these might be better for 5th or even 6th grade.

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Heinemann says 3rd-6th for SG but I'd say it's more towards the latter end of that range.

 

I'm using Sentence Composing with my 3rd graders and they love it. I'm also using with my 6th grader (because I want to tweak his writing) and he loves it as well although it is much less challenging for him.

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I'm using Sentence Composing with my 3rd graders and they love it. I'm also using with my 6th grader (because I want to tweak his writing) and he loves it as well although it is much less challenging for him.

 

Do you use it as grammar or writing or both? I was looking at SG to use for writing while using something else entirely for grammar.

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Do you use it as grammar or writing or both? I was looking at SG to use for writing while using something else entirely for grammar.

 

I've stopped grammar. I am using it strictly for help with writing. It's the way I taught them myself, but now I'm just not having to take the time to make it up. Cause I'm lazy like that. :D

 

It really is a heck of a lot of fun.

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It's designed to be a consumable worktext so unless you can print out from the Kindle (I don't have one so I have no idea if this is possible) or your student is willing to copy the exercises down onto notebook paper, I would get the paper version.

 

 

Wow-thanks for telling me LOL. I wonder why they would sell a Kindle Version? Maybe it's printable in its PC form? In any case, I'd probably have my son copy the work separately, as I'll need it for my younger down the line....

Edited by Halcyon
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  • 3 weeks later...
Wow-thanks for telling me LOL. I wonder why they would sell a Kindle Version? Maybe it's printable in its PC form? In any case, I'd probably have my son copy the work separately, as I'll need it for my younger down the line....

 

I *just* got my Kindle, so I may be confused, but when you buy something for the Kindle from Amazon.com, does it give you a choice of which format you want it in? PDF or whatever? In that case, you could have it sent to your regular email instead of Kindle email, and print? Is that possible? Is it legal?

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I *just* got my Kindle, so I may be confused, but when you buy something for the Kindle from Amazon.com, does it give you a choice of which format you want it in? PDF or whatever? In that case, you could have it sent to your regular email instead of Kindle email, and print? Is that possible? Is it legal?

 

No, the Kindle has its own proprietary format (.azw). When you buy a Kindle book from Amazon, it is only in that format.

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You know, I've been lucky in that I don't really tend to have a "curriculum-buying addiction" (lol).

 

I found Oak Meadow very early on, have stuck with it for a couple of years, and intend to keep doing so- I'm really happy with it. I don't get tempted to keep buying new curricula or to switch to something else, and haven't felt the need to do much supplementing etc.

 

I decided on TT for math only because my older/used version of Oak Meadow didn't come with its own built in math curriculum from 5th grade on and suggested Saxon, which I didn't want to use, so I picked TT and I like it- I plan to stick with it.

 

There's only been one time prior to today that I have bought something "extra/supplementary" after reading a thread on this board- and that was Times Tales a while back, in an effort to try to help my daughter memorize her multiplication tables, because nothing else I tried seemed to work well. (Times Tales didn't really end up being for us, btw).

 

But now, I can officially say there have been two times. Thanks to this thread, I just purchased "Sentence Composing For Elementary School" and will add it on next month. I hope it's as good as it looks. :)

 

P.S. I do also plan to purchase Life of Fred Fractions for next year after reading so much about LoF on this board- it sounds interesting/fun. So that'll be my third time.

 

Hopefully that will be it lol- because I have no intentions of changing to a different curriculum and I really don't want to start supplementing with a bunch of different things, either. :P

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Do you think that Sentence Composing can stand alone as a writing course or would it be something to use in addition to something else?

 

I already have a grammar only plan for next year, but was looking for something to add for writing instruction.

 

Finally, I can't tell from the samples I've been able to find is it consumable or not?

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Do you think that Sentence Composing can stand alone as a writing course or would it be something to use in addition to something else?

 

I already have a grammar only plan for next year, but was looking for something to add for writing instruction.

 

Finally, I can't tell from the samples I've been able to find is it consumable or not?

 

I'm trying to figure out the same thing. I am going to use Voyages in English for grammar but it does have some writing exercises, too. So, I'm thinking I'll use Killgallon in conjunction with the writing parts of VIE as our writing curriculum. As for consumable, I think you're supposed to have them copy down the exercises, although I guess they could write in the book if you wanted. I'm planning on using it again for my younger child so I'll have DD copy the work onto paper.

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Do you think that Sentence Composing can stand alone as a writing course or would it be something to use in addition to something else?

 

I already have a grammar only plan for next year, but was looking for something to add for writing instruction.

 

Finally, I can't tell from the samples I've been able to find is it consumable or not?

 

It is a consumable workbook, but one could certainly have the student do the exercises on notebook paper.

 

The primary focus is on sentence-writing so while it could certainly work as a stand-alone semester writing course, most folks would probably still want to continue on with something like WWE or other writing program.

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There is no place in the book to write, so I have my daughter use notebook paper. We have only done one lesson so far and I tend to be a much more relaxed homeschooler than many here, so I can't say whether someone would consider this enough of a writing curriculum to stand alone.

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  • 2 weeks later...
We use kilgallon WITH WWE and I think it's a nice combination. And Nance-those are my "additions" this year too: Kilgallon and LOF Fractions. And Times Tales. But we added Times Tales last year, so it doesn't count. ;)

 

LOL I tried Times Tales too but it didn't really seem a good fit for us. Still, I pre-ordered the video, just in case lol. LoF Fractions we'll be doing next year rather than this year.

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