MFW, VP, or TOG?

[Mrs. Lilac]

Any one who has any experience with any of the above, I'd love to hear your input! We're using MFW this year, and used it last year, and we do like it. I've been drooling over VP, and leaning towards going that route starting next year. But I also hear raves about TOG....except it looks overwhelming to me.

 

Any help you all can provide would be so much appreciated! :)

 

Thanks!

[J'etudie]

I'm using TOG and plan to for the long haul. I haven't used VP, but I did MFW K and MFW Adventures, both of which I liked very much. I read and learned about TOG for a couple of years before making my first purchase so I wasn't overwhelmed by it. I also knew, before purchasing, that it fit what I wanted as a teacher and it fit our goals for educating our children. I already had a schedule for our days based on time I wanted to devote to academics, to other activities, etc. I was already changing MFW's schedule to plug things into my schedule. (I am bit of a control freak. :D) So the fact that TOG wasn't broken down day by day didn't bother me.

 

I loved that TOG was filled to the brim with choices. There's so much background info for the teacher. There are so many crafts to choose from each week. We have a great library so it means I can request all of the books for grammar level, both primaries and alternates, and use them in a book basket fashion. I love the buffet, and I'm comfortable taking what I want and leaving the rest.

 

If you're really interested in TOG, I'd go to the website and look for the Explore Tapestry sections. There is a lot of information about how to break things down, step by step. Then you can see if it's right for your family. Downloading the 3-week trial is helpful, too. Just give yourself time to mull it over rather than expecting it to all become clear/useful immediately.

 

HTH!

[siloam]

Any one who has any experience with any of the above, I'd love to hear your input! We're using MFW this year, and used it last year, and we do like it. I've been drooling over VP, and leaning towards going that route starting next year. But I also hear raves about TOG....except it looks overwhelming to me.

 

Any help you all can provide would be so much appreciated! :)

 

Thanks!

 

TOG clicks for some and not for other people. If it overwhelms you now, I would wait. It will still be there in a few years and then you will be able to really take advantage of it.

 

The big difference between TOG and VP, I have read, is that TOG is a history program with Literature and VP is more of a Literature program with history. Karen uses both I believe. TOG history and VP literature.

 

Heather

[BlsdMama]

I see a lot of people loving MFW and abandoning it as they get older.

I have not seen VP IRL, so I can't comment.

 

I am incredibly grateful to Marcia Sommerville for the work she has done in Tapestry. I honestly am not sure I could give my children this level of education without Tapestry simply because of time constraints.

[Donna A.]

We've been using MFW for several years at the elementary level, and now at the high school level as well. If you do a search on the high school board, you'll find several who are now using it for high school.

 

Unfortunately, the pp is right in that there have been a lot of people ditch MFW while still in the younger years before even getting to the history cycle. From my observation, most either love the early years (K and 1st grade, maybe Adventures, and maybe ECC), and then dislike the history years (CTG thru 1850-Modern), or vice versa. I'd venture to guess that that's because the earlier years are quite a bit lighter than a "classical" education, so depending your philosophy of teaching in those early years, you'll probably have a preference for *either* the first few years, or the later years which become more "classical" and build over time.

 

Are you unhappy with MFW, or are you just curious about future options?

[Mrs. Lilac]

Thanks for the posts so far!

 

I'm not unhappy with MFW- I just am really liking the way VP looks as you move into the older years. Then again, perhaps I need to sit back down and really look harder at MFW's older years.

[PeterPan]

Have you done the free trial yet for the VP online self-paced classes? The classes are AWESOME, and free is certainly the best way to tell what you like. I've used VP for years with my dd, but now I'm an online class convert. It solves my big weakness, actually teaching the history, and they do a way better job than I would. With the ages of your kids, I would put your money in books, not fancy curriculum. I would defer toward hands-on books. And I would pay for curriculum where it makes your history time more likely to happen. Even Marcia Summerville (of TOG) said at those early elementary ages to "trust much to the reading of good books." If you like VP and are drawn to VP, you can't go wrong with it. It's really sort of a streamlined version of TOG. It gives you less of everything, but it doesn't give you more than what you need either.

 

And remember if you feel compelled to try TOG you still have the free samples you can download for it too. I've been lured by TOG for years, even bought a dab to try it. The reality was the simplity of VP, giving me just what I needed for the age I was teaching, was enough for me. It really depends on your mix of kids and situation as to how TOG will strike you.

[imhim]

I just got some card for Middle ages history from VP and have the TM, but have not had a chance to go through many - is VP more catholic bent? I a just wondering from the 5 minutes I had to look into it. We are not catholics, but cannot finger why they study so many of the catholic saints in the medieval age? Can anyone explain?

[Brindee]

I didn't know about MFW when my kids were younger. I am using it for the first time this year for dd (in 9th), and we both LOVE IT!!! Everyone has their own pov, but it's just right for our needs, and we plan to stick with it through high school! Easy to use, great explanations, help with writing, love what's included for reading......Yep, we're lovin' MFW!!! :D

[Heather in VA]

I tried TOG a few times. For me it just doesn't fit my philosophy of schooling. It's just way too much history. I build my school around core subjects: math, grammar, Latin, writing. TOG is hours of history a day. I just can't fit that into my day, nor would I want to. I don't care for Writing Aids approach to writing so it wouldn't be an included subject for me.

 

VP is much more in line with how I want to approach history. The elementary program focuses on creating a timeline in the children's head and understanding the flow of historical and biblical people and events. I love the memory work. I REALLY love the self-paced course which we are doing for the first time this year, but I liked VP before that too. Then from 7th and up the focus is literature and history through primary sources and key literature of the time periods in 2, 3 year cycles. The timeline of history they learn in elementary really helps them understand what they are doing when they get to Omnibus.

 

I don't have any experience with MFW so I can't comment on that one. VP works for us.

 

Heather

[Heather in VA]

PS - no VP is not Catholic at all, in fact I have heard that some Catholics really dislike it.

 

Heather

[BlsdMama]

 

Unfortunately, the pp is right in that there have been a lot of people ditch MFW while still in the younger years before even getting to the history cycle.

 

I'd venture to guess that that's because the earlier years are quite a bit lighter than a "classical" education, so depending your philosophy of teaching in those early years, you'll probably have a preference for *either* the first few years, or the later years which become more "classical" and build over time.

 

Are you unhappy with MFW, or are you just curious about future options?

 

Interesting observation. Thank you for writing that out.

[Donna A.]

I just got some card for Middle ages history from VP and have the TM, but have not had a chance to go through many - is VP more catholic bent? I a just wondering from the 5 minutes I had to look into it. We are not catholics, but cannot finger why they study so many of the catholic saints in the medieval age? Can anyone explain?

 

VP is Reformed Christian... Presbyterian, to be exact. Their particular denomination is CRE -- Confederation of Reformed Evangelicals. So *very close* to Catholic, but just "not Catholic enough" for Catholics to dislike it. ;)

 

VP has a very strong slant toward an "America as the chosen nation" POV.

 

You should note, however, that the predominant religion (other than Muslim or Jew) during the Middle Ages was Catholic, so that really is a huge part of that time period. But many Catholics at the time actually WERE believers (as in true Christ-followers vs. just following "the church"). Thus, it's no surprise that your cards from that era "seem" Catholic. It was out of that that the Reformation came, which of course would be the next set of cards. :D

[JaneGrey]

I tried TOG two years ago (Year 2). My kids were little, but I wanted to give it a try. This was right before they went digital, so I had the hard copy of the updated TOG. I still own it, and I might go back to it. Now, I'm using the VP cards and history CD along with the SOTW CDs.

 

I liked: (1) all the information, (2) the weekly charts at a glance (including all the levels), (3) the maps, and (4) the literature selections. I also loved the TOG community. The users are soooo helpful. They even have beautiful blogs and supplemental forms.

 

What was the problem? For the young level, I didn't feel like I got my money's worth out of the basic curriculum. I wasn't happy with the end product. Looking back, I think that the lapbooks would have made it a whole lot better for my younger (4 yo). The lowest level reading was fine for him, but he wasn't writing a lot, so we didn't use the worksheets. The older (6 yo) was reading many dialectic selections, but I wasn't having him write a whole lot either. I shouldn't have been surprised, since I'm not big on worksheets. Plus, I did substitute some reading selections, making certain worksheets obsolete. I didn't have the Map Aids. (I already owned KQ's history maps and figured they'd be close enough. Not so. If you use TOG, get the Map Aids!) I already knew I wouldn't be using the Writing Aids. The student pages were all over the book (organized by week instead of grouped together), making it more difficult to copy. (This might be easier in the digital version.) Again, I wasn't even using lots of the worksheets. I knew I'd be tweaking, but I found TOG difficult to tweak because it was so huge. Basically, it was too much information to serve my purpose at the price for the ages I had.

 

So, I switched to using the VP cards. My kids have loved those things and the history songs that go with them. Again, I'm not into the worksheets, so I didn't buy the Teacher Guide. I love (more elaborate) crafts and activities, so I supplement with those types of books. For the price, this works well. The cards give BRIEF glimpses into the material, so you definitely need to supplement. Additional reading suggestions are given on the cards. However, I think VP uses too much historical fiction, and some of the suggestions seem redundant. Also, the reading suggestions are not divided by reading level (the way you see in TOG). You can easily substitute with some KHE/KIHW or Usborne pages of the relevant event. The only problem for me is the 5 year cycle, but I just cram the first two sets into one year.

 

I did consider MFW and Biblioplan, too, but those programs are similar to TOG in terms of providing a schedule. With VP, I feel like I have more flexibility in doing things the way I'd like. I can supplement with SOTW (because younger will do well with that). I do have to add the mapwork myself (which was a pain last year), but it should be easier this year because I'm just going to use my Map Aids from TOG.

 

Hope that helps!

[mommaduck]

Any one who has any experience with any of the above, I'd love to hear your input! We're using MFW this year, and used it last year, and we do like it. I've been drooling over VP, and leaning towards going that route starting next year. But I also hear raves about TOG....except it looks overwhelming to me.

 

Any help you all can provide would be so much appreciated! :)

 

Thanks!

I've done all three. I've drooled and sidetracked from MFW to TOG and VP. It wasn't worth it. I wish we had just stayed with MFW. We are back with MFW the past few years and thankful. I have a lot of children, not a lot of time for planning. You can add any books you desire to MFW and switch out if there are specific things you are looking at. MFW is my first choice. If you knocked it down to TOG or VP, well, I would go with TOG over VP.

[Momma H]

I've done all three. I've drooled and sidetracked from MFW to TOG and VP. It wasn't worth it. I wish we had just stayed with MFW. We are back with MFW the past few years and thankful. I have a lot of children, not a lot of time for planning. You can add any books you desire to MFW and switch out if there are specific things you are looking at. MFW is my first choice. If you knocked it down to TOG or VP, well, I would go with TOG over VP.

 

:iagree:

 

Yep.

 

 

I have not noticed people ditching MFW as the kids get older any more than any other curriculum. I really thought TOG was going to be *easier* than MFW but it is not at all. I think it is too much. The people who use it successfully have about 5 hours more a day that I don't have to get history done.

[mommaduck]

:iagree:

 

Yep.

 

 

I have not noticed people ditching MFW as the kids get older any more than any other curriculum. I really thought TOG was going to be *easier* than MFW but it is not at all. I think it is too much. The people who use it successfully have about 5 hours more a day that I don't have to get history done.

Or are only teaching one or two kids.

[Donna A.]

Or are only teaching one or two kids.

 

Julie in MN is only teaching one child, although I think he's doing AHL (high school) this year, but she's been doing MFW with him for many years. I think with just one or two kids, you could really chase some rabbit trails! And yet, MFW is efficient enough to do "just the necessities" with a large family and limited time, too. Love its flexibility in that way! :001_smile:

[Heather in VA]

So, I switched to using the VP cards. My kids have loved those things and the history songs that go with them. Again, I'm not into the worksheets, so I didn't buy the Teacher Guide. I love (more elaborate) crafts and activities, so I supplement with those types of books.

 

The TM is more than just the worksheets. It includes many activities, additional readings, projects etc. Without the TM it is just cards with some info so it would seem light. Better yet you can get the Scholars plans that tell you what to teach, what connections to emphasize, which resources to read from, writing assignments etc. The Scholars plans run $49.

 

Heather

[imhim]

Thank you Heather and Donna for explaining the religious background of VP to me!

They may have missed quite a bit of the orthodox religions going on in the Byzantine Empire - big religion even today in Eastern Europe. They have their own saints, etc...

[PeterPan]

The MARR cards are not study saints for the purpose of studying saints. Those people happen to have done significant things that build, as you follow the progression of cards. For instance St. Jerome, who translated the Vulgate, is important once you realize the Vulgate was what Wycliffe used to bring a translation into vernacular english for the people. Suddenly that dude Jerome is a lot more important, eh? You couldn't understand where they were coming from till you had the background.

 

You also have to realize VP does NOT attempt to cover all the cultures and continents like MFW or TOG. You're going to be very western civ with this. It's on purpose, and it is a reasonable option to my mind, considering it's only for elementary, not high school. You can add on SOTW audio or something if it bugs you.

 

With the mix of ages of the op, I'd suggest keeping it simple.

[mommaduck]

Thank you Heather and Donna for explaining the religious background of VP to me!

They may have missed quite a bit of the orthodox religions going on in the Byzantine Empire - big religion even today in Eastern Europe. They have their own saints, etc...

 

The MARR cards are not study saints for the purpose of studying saints. Those people happen to have done significant things that build, as you follow the progression of cards. For instance St. Jerome, who translated the Vulgate, is important once you realize the Vulgate was what Wycliffe used to bring a translation into vernacular english for the people. Suddenly that dude Jerome is a lot more important, eh? You couldn't understand where they were coming from till you had the background.

 

You also have to realize VP does NOT attempt to cover all the cultures and continents like MFW or TOG. You're going to be very western civ with this. It's on purpose, and it is a reasonable option to my mind, considering it's only for elementary, not high school. You can add on SOTW audio or something if it bugs you.

 

With the mix of ages of the op, I'd suggest keeping it simple.

Another reason NOT to use VP. I don't like the idea of learning ONLY western or even ONLY the particular events that are important to Protestantism. I think we do a disservice and create a myopic view of history and the world when we do this. Even when I was Reformed, I had an issue with this.

 

But then, I also don't teach how Columbus was "wonderfully guided by God to the Americas where only heathens lived" ;)

[Heather in VA]

Another reason NOT to use VP. I don't like the idea of learning ONLY western or even ONLY the particular events that are important to Protestantism. I think we do a disservice and create a myopic view of history and the world when we do this. Even when I was Reformed, I had an issue with this.

 

But then, I also don't teach how Columbus was "wonderfully guided by God to the Americas where only heathens lived" ;)

 

Actually I haven't found any of this with VP. First, the western civ emphasis is primarily in the elementary program. The world widens significantly with the 2 cycles of Omnibus. Every program has to make it's choices. I think TOG has missed some major events in their ancient year and also in the MARR time period which they condense into 2 semesters. Again - they have no choice. You have to make decisions and emphasize and deemphasize based on what is practical. SOTW is pretty wide based but we found it to have very little depth or retention. That is just how it worked for us. Plus, there is a lot that we encounter and discuss that isn't officially assigned. It just spawns out of the learning, writing, discussing etc.

 

And there is nothing about VP that forces you to teach that Columbus was some kind of savior. In fact it discusses many bad things that happened during the exploration period. It does make judgements. It teaches that the Egyptian gods were not real, for example, and compares the results of the belief in false gods to the belief in God ... but if you aren't interested in that then TOG, MFW and VP are probably all something you don't want.

 

No history program covers everything with depth and meaning. It just isn't possible, especially at the elementary level. VP uses the elementary years to build that mental timeline and cement those pegs. Other programs approach it differently. Just find what approach you want but look at it as a long term project. Don't choose based on what you get in one particular year. They have many years to learn and understand history.

 

Heather

[mommaduck]

I never said that VP taught one way or the other about Columbus. I do know what much of the typical teaching by various Christian authors and curricula are on Columbus. I simply stated that I teach somewhat broader and alternatively. MFW let's me do that. Even TOG left room for that. I didn't find that so much with VP. We did Omnibus One an ditched it halfway through the year. Good for literature, did not feel that it adequately covered enough for history.

 

Again, this is just personal opinion from having used all three. Some families want one thing while others want another.

Edited September 20, 2010 by mommaduck

[FriedClams]

If I were in massive DO over mode - I would do MOH for the first rotation, then TOG for the older kids.

[Donna A.]

Actually I haven't found any of this with VP. First, the western civ emphasis is primarily in the elementary program. The world widens significantly with the 2 cycles of Omnibus. Every program has to make it's choices. I think TOG has missed some major events in their ancient year and also in the MARR time period which they condense into 2 semesters. Again - they have no choice. You have to make decisions and emphasize and deemphasize based on what is practical. SOTW is pretty wide based but we found it to have very little depth or retention. That is just how it worked for us. Plus, there is a lot that we encounter and discuss that isn't officially assigned. It just spawns out of the learning, writing, discussing etc.

 

And there is nothing about VP that forces you to teach that Columbus was some kind of savior. In fact it discusses many bad things that happened during the exploration period. It does make judgements. It teaches that the Egyptian gods were not real, for example, and compares the results of the belief in false gods to the belief in God ... but if you aren't interested in that then TOG, MFW and VP are probably all something you don't want.

 

No history program covers everything with depth and meaning. It just isn't possible, especially at the elementary level. VP uses the elementary years to build that mental timeline and cement those pegs. Other programs approach it differently. Just find what approach you want but look at it as a long term project. Don't choose based on what you get in one particular year. They have many years to learn and understand history.

 

Heather

 

Nevertheless, VP's theological POV *is* America-centered, and that is certainly prevalent in their curriculum.

[PeterPan]

Just to be clear, VP focuses on Western Civ, and the materials are open-ended enough to bring in ALL the interpretation you want. They don't even focus on interp in the lower levels, just flat out facts, foundation, memory work. I just don't get the ballyhoo. It's nice to focus more narrowly the first time through and go more broad the 2nd cycle. It's a matter of opinion, and there's nothing wrong with it. Anything a person can do with TOG for elementary they can do with VP, just more easily because it's not trying to do so much more. Of course a mom with 7 kids over a range of ages loves TOG. But for a mom with 3 kids ages 7 and under, going through that much effort, sifting through that much material just to be able to do a few read alouds and a craft is just plain nuts. Only people who love history and want the notes and extras of TOG for themselves should go through that.

 

I like it all, for the right person. The point is to make clear the differences, not to slam one or the other. I think they're ALL good for the right user.

[PeterPan]

VP is Reformed Christian... Presbyterian, to be exact. Their particular denomination is CRE -- Confederation of Reformed Evangelicals. So *very close* to Catholic, but just "not Catholic enough" for Catholics to dislike it.

 

Also, I'd like for you to clarify this. Exactly what are you saying about their doctrine and relationship with the R. Catholic church? Any sites or sources for this?

[lovinmomma]

Just to be clear, VP focuses on Western Civ, and the materials are open-ended enough to bring in ALL the interpretation you want. They don't even focus on interp in the lower levels, just flat out facts, foundation, memory work. I just don't get the ballyhoo. It's nice to focus more narrowly the first time through and go more broad the 2nd cycle. It's a matter of opinion, and there's nothing wrong with it. Anything a person can do with TOG for elementary they can do with VP, just more easily because it's not trying to do so much more. Of course a mom with 7 kids over a range of ages loves TOG. But for a mom with 3 kids ages 7 and under, going through that much effort, sifting through that much material just to be able to do a few read alouds and a craft is just plain nuts. Only people who love history and want the notes and extras of TOG for themselves should go through that.

 

I like it all, for the right person. The point is to make clear the differences, not to slam one or the other. I think they're ALL good for the right user.

Call me crazy, but I find TOG incredibly simple in the LG years. Look at the book selections and reviews on amazon (just a couple or less per week if it's a multi-week book), order said books, enjoy! It's so simple in the LG years. Sure you can add much more in, but it's definately not necessary.... Disclaimer- I'm a new TOGer.

[Donna A.]

I like it all, for the right person. The point is to make clear the differences, not to slam one or the other. I think they're ALL good for the right user.

 

Well of course, but I was just saying why VP doesn't work for *us*. When discussing Christian-based curriculum, theological differences can be just as important as differences in layout, prep time, number of crafts, etc., since one's theology typically dictates how they view both history and current events.

[Donna A.]

Also, I'd like for you to clarify this. Exactly what are you saying about their doctrine and relationship with the R. Catholic church? Any sites or sources for this?

 

Factual, theological, and historical. Remember Martin Luther?

 

Here's the website to the CRE: http://www.crechurches.org/

 

(And I have no idea what denomination you are, Elizabeth. I was just elaborating on an earlier post which referenced the Catholic church.)

 

If you love VP, that's great, but there's no need to get offended at someone else who doesn't agree with their theology. ;)

[siloam]

Call me crazy, but I find TOG incredibly simple in the LG years. Look at the book selections and reviews on amazon (just a couple or less per week if it's a multi-week book), order said books, enjoy! It's so simple in the LG years. Sure you can add much more in, but it's definately not necessary.... Disclaimer- I'm a new TOGer.

 

I actually would agree. The LG level is appropriately scheduled. For me it was also easy to "get". I know people who have a problem both getting it and figuring out exactly what to do. I am always at a loss in those moments as to what to do to help because it was so easy and clear for me.

 

Heather

[PeterPan]

Factual, theological, and historical. Remember Martin Luther?

 

Here's the website to the CRE: http://www.crechurches.org/

 

(And I have no idea what denomination you are, Elizabeth. I was just elaborating on an earlier post which referenced the Catholic church.)

 

If you love VP, that's great, but there's no need to get offended at someone else who doesn't agree with their theology. ;)

 

Oh I'm not offended at all and hope I haven't offended you. I have been trying, for some time, to understand where these Reformed churches are coming from on these issues (salvation, sanctification, etc.), and I still don't get it. I know DW puts things in VERY different terms than I would (to say the least). I've had some things I inferred or assumed. But to say that their theology is so different from mainline evangelical protestantism (which at least on paper usually subscribes to salvation through faith in Christ's all-sufficient Work) that it is more closely aligned to catholicism is NOT something I had heard. So I thought it was a profound statement and something I wanted clarified. Clearly you have something you have learned about this, so I wanted to know.

 

My own google search just now has turned up very little. It constantly gets into the FV/DW debate and throws around terms which are so unfamiliar as to be hard to sort through.

 

PS. I just went to that CREC link, and they basically just listed a bunch of creeds and statements saying all the usual things you expect. No word about the covenant stuff or anything else that impacts what they DO or how they do things or why they do things.

Edited September 20, 2010 by OhElizabeth

[Donna A.]

Oh I'm not offended at all and hope I haven't offended you. I have been trying, for some time, to understand where these Reformed churches are coming from on these issues (salvation, sanctification, etc.), and I still don't get it. I know DW puts things in VERY different terms than I would (to say the least). I've had some things I inferred or assumed. But to say that their theology is so different from mainline evangelical protestantism (which at least on paper usually subscribes to salvation through faith in Christ's all-sufficient Work) that it is more closely aligned to catholicism is NOT something I had heard. So I thought it was a profound statement and something I wanted clarified. Clearly you have something you have learned about this, so I wanted to know.

 

My own google search just now has turned up very little. It constantly gets into the FV/DW debate and throws around terms which are so unfamiliar as to be hard to sort through.

 

I'm not sure what DW means, but is FV Federal Vision? Yeah, the Federal Vision view is very controversial. I myself am Reformed (Reformed Baptist), and generally Presbyterian-friendly. But the CRE's position on some things is a stretch for me. :tongue_smilie: We were in a PCA church for a while and that was fine. We personally know some CRE folks IRL, wonderful people, but we just couldn't go there denominationally.

 

What do you know about Doug Wilson? There's a CRE guy for ya'. :D

[PeterPan]

Ok, so you don't have anything CONCRETE to back up that statement that CRE is a stone's throw from catholicism? I found vague blog references to that effect, things filled with lambasting and innuendo, but it's really hard to find anything concrete.

 

The only obvious thing I can tell is that their philosophy of education and goal in education differs (from mine, from most protestants I would say), because of their theology. (excellence in order to reclaim culture and usher in...) But I think that's something they state upfront and not necessarily a dealbreaker for all people, not if you know it going in.

[Donna A.]

Ok, so you don't have anything CONCRETE to back up that statement that CRE is a stone's throw from catholicism? I found vague blog references to that effect, things filled with lambasting and innuendo, but it's really hard to find anything concrete.

 

 

I have conversations with real-life friends who belong to the CRE, as well as having participated in some CRE services a few times. I didn't say I didn't have anything concrete. I gave you a link and dropped a Big Name so that you can research on your own. I feel that we're hijacking the op's thread as it is... not to mention the fact that if I get into it too much, I'm very likely to offend someone on this board. ;)

 

And I didn't exactly say the CRE is "a stone's throw from catholicism", anyway. :001_smile:

[Soror]

For others reading I have to say Catholics are Christians, all of us, always have been.

[mommaduck]

For others reading I have to say Catholics are Christians, all of us, always have been.

Exactly.

[HSMom2One]

I have heard really great things about MFW, and would have considered trying it if I had not already made the decision to go with TOG. My impression is that both programs are wonderful for young children. While I've perused the VP catalogue on many occasions, I have never actually used their products. What I can say from my own experience is that TOG is an excellent choice for a Classical Christian curriculum. We started TOG when dd was in 5th grade, and it was a perfect fit for us.

 

I've said this previously on other threads, but it is worthy of repeating. The writers of TOG had it in mind that their materials would be used when the oldest child in the family is in 5th grade. Parents would then pull in the younger students and have them studying the same point in history, but at their own level for the purpose of exposure. I don't think that it was intended (at least originally) to be used from the ground up from the time the oldest is LG level. Certainly, it can be done this way, as many on this board have attested to. It can become very expensive however, so my recommendation would be to hold off on using TOG until the oldest child is at least 5th grade. Another possibility would be to hold off until the Logic or even Rhetoric stages for the oldest. Either way, a family could then invest in the books and hold on to them as they build a good library for the younger students to grow into. Despite the potential for expensive materials (and there are ways around this), I think in the long run it is an excellent, excellent value for the solid education it provides.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda