How do you manage when you have a child who has to be watched every single minute???

[Ginevra]

I have to say under NO circumstances should a child that challenging ever go into an institutional setting

 

I had a child that needed constant oversight and I felt this way about him. I truly felt that he could be abused in a setting where they didn't have any particular reason to like him.

 

I agree with the Tomato Staking concept. If you have a child like this, you cannot give them opportunity to feed the goldfish gummy bears, practice home haircuts and glue the dog's tail to the curtains, KWIM? My son had to stay in the bathroom with me while I showered and yes, he had screaming, horrible tantrums where he beat on the locked door because he did not want to be in the room.

 

Another thing that was always good in his case was to give him a job. It could be a bogus job, but if he thought he was in charge of something, he was golden.

[Denisemomof4]

I had a child that needed constant oversight and I felt this way about him. I truly felt that he could be abused in a setting where they didn't have any particular reason to like him.

 

I agree with the Tomato Staking concept. If you have a child like this, you cannot give them opportunity to feed the goldfish gummy bears, practice home haircuts and glue the dog's tail to the curtains, KWIM? My son had to stay in the bathroom with me while I showered and yes, he had screaming, horrible tantrums where he beat on the locked door because he did not want to be in the room.

 

Another thing that was always good in his case was to give him a job. It could be a bogus job, but if he thought he was in charge of something, he was golden.

 

this is exactly how I've lived for many years.

 

I give dd jobs and I know she loves to work. I just redo the job when she's in bed, because a 7 year old isn't going to do a good job on everything. I am impressed, though, at what she CAN do.

[Kate CA]

I took some liberty to delete some from OP's post above to leave the lines about which I want to write about here. The lines above TO ME show how the OP feels the child's behavior is affecting/effecting the family. The tone is clearly that MUCH of what is wrong is that the child repeatedly defies her mother and does what she knows she is not supposed to do. The verb defy is used by the mother. The OP is the one saying she has a proven track record of being the "kind of kid who, if you tell her she cannot do something, will immediately think, "Oh yeah? I'll show YOU what I can and cannot do!" (the MOTHER's exact words).

 

Nothing I've ever posted was about the child not being a precious/talented/intelligent/explorative child. All of those gifts aren't to be put off. But a parent can encourage and allow this without having this child cause such troubles. I remember my parents saying that when I was 4 I took about 1000 stamps and stuck them on the outside of my home thinking they were the publisher's clearing house stickers. I didn't get a spanking for this first-offense as my parent's knew I didn't know better. But, any mom mom KNOWS which behaviors are the child HONESTLY not knowing any better and which are the child repeat offenses. If I'm understanding the OP, I think what is exasperating to the mom is that the child is repeating the SAME behaviors that the mother has repeatedly told her not to do --- thus the mom saying she's "talked myself blue in the face about not touching other people's things, not telling lies, not making messes that aren't OKed by me, not sneaking food, not using her sister's things without permission, and so on, and so on...". Because it's the same REPEAT behaviors in direct OPPOSITION to her mother's commands, it is an issue of disobedience.

 

Like my son flushing a washrag down the toilet. I didn't spank him for this. I instructed him and explained to him about why we can't do this and we watched the plumber come retrieve it and had a big talk. Now...if he did it again, he would be punished now that he knows how I want him to behave in this particular area. I wouldn't advocate disciplining a child for this type of behavior, but I dont' get that those issues were the OP's TONE at all. This child sounds VERY bright and can certain learn the limits and the mom has to hold firm to discipling her in failing to keep within the reasonably placed LIMITS. Sure, the child should be encouraged to be her own God-given personality. But, that doesn't include lying, sneaking food, defacing lampshades, tearing up her sister's special photos, etc. She is old enough to learn distinct boundaries and to be expected and made to stay within them or that there will be consequences.

 

To Barb in AZ, I'm sorry you've taken my opinions to the OP seemingly so personally. I do have much to learn and thankfully the Lord has put some wonderful people in my life that help me along this parenting path such as my amazing husband, parents, books and teachers; and I continue to try to soak up wisdom from others. I still feel my advice on this thread is sound, chiefly that it's important for a child at her age to learn to obey all the way, right away and with a happy heart. I have prayed that your methods yield great results for you and yours and I'll continue to pray that mine do the same for mine.

 

Just so you know, I completely understood your points both above and here and agree with them. You are not alone in your thinking. :001_smile:

[texasmama]

:grouphug: to the OP. I have one child who is terribly defiant. (He is not terribly destructive, thank goodness.) I kept waiting every year for him to pass through the terrible threes, fours, fives, etc. He did gradually get better, a bit at a time. I tried many different parenting approaches with him and found, in the end, that he is a genius smart, stubborn, sweet, caring, deep feeling, control freak. Like your dd, he would rather be right than happy.:tongue_smilie: Consistent limits, good sleep, avoiding food triggers and letting him be in charge of something/anything are all very helpful to him. The child is very organized and has a mind that never stops. He loves to sit on the couch and look up (and mark with post it notes) interesting recipes for us to try. He has been my most challenging child. He is also my favorite.:001_smile:

 

You have received some good advice about tomato staking and locking up all of the sharpies.:tongue_smilie: I will just give you a :grouphug: and say that every year, bit by bit, I have watched my hard, stubborn child become more and more in control of himself. Today was a bad day for him/us, but these are now fewer and further between. He has a good heart...really, he does. He is just very bothered that he cannot be in charge of the entire universe.:tongue_smilie: Someday, I know he will be wildly successful at anything he does...and it will not be because of anything I did but more likely because of what I refrained from doing that would have broken his spirit.

 

You seem like a wonderful lady and mom, so I know you will come upon something that works for your dd during this stage of her life.:grouphug:

[LittleIzumi]

I had a child that needed constant oversight and I felt this way about him. I truly felt that he could be abused in a setting where they didn't have any particular reason to like him.

 

I agree with the Tomato Staking concept. If you have a child like this, you cannot give them opportunity to feed the goldfish gummy bears, practice home haircuts and glue the dog's tail to the curtains, KWIM? My son had to stay in the bathroom with me while I showered and yes, he had screaming, horrible tantrums where he beat on the locked door because he did not want to be in the room.

 

Another thing that was always good in his case was to give him a job. It could be a bogus job, but if he thought he was in charge of something, he was golden.

 

:iagree: It's amazing how much dd calms down if she's supposed to fold washclothes ;). But she must be monitored essentially constantly, and even in "safe" environments where it's all childproofed & should be safe, she still needs to be checked on quite often. It's amazing how creative she can get in destruction, or destructive creation, lol.

[Laura Corin]

. The closer I drew my son, the more empathetic he was about what would upset me, and the less such things happened. A lot of it I am sure was just that he outgrew it, but I still occasionally see him go through a difficult spurt and help him out of it by applying SALVE from that Aldort book: Separate yourself, Attention on the child, Listen, Validate, Empower. With my not completely insane children, natural consequences, or logical ones, or arbitrary ones, work. With destructoboy, it all backfired on me. The more I came down on him, the more he came down on us; the kinder I was to him, the kinder he was to me. We got out of the stage where it was a constant struggle, but still, when he's been awful, I find excuses to spoil him. And it helps!

 

Laura

[Caitilin]

Originally Posted by melissel

My main frustration tonight was more along the lines of, how can I set clear boundaries for things that I can't even envision happening? And if I can't set the boundaries in advance, how can I reduce the occurrence of these crazy, random behaviors? I don't think she drowned the coins in any kind of direct disobedience.

 

 

Thank you all!

 

 

This reminded me of something--didn't one of the other ladies here (was it KidsHappen?) on a different thread some months ago say that she had come to the point where her policy was that unless she had specifically said something was permitted, it was forbidden? Can you make this your ground rule and go from there? It doesn't sound like she does these things in order to get your goat, but from her own sense of natural curiosity. If she has to take it to you EVERY TIME and ask if XYZ is permitted, then at least you'd know what she wanted to do, right? I don't know--none of mine so far have been like this. :grouphug: and good luck.

[Lovedtodeath]

I read through part of this thread and was saddened by a few posts. Fortunately, some people don't know what TRULY challenging children are like. Unfortunately, certain "christian" writers are some of these people and child abuse, even death, has occurred because parents weren't smart enough to chuck the bad advice that may work fine for a normal or normally difficult kid, but will NOT work for truly challenging.

 

I hate to recall our time trying to follow these people because it shows what a horrible mother I was to do that to my child! What made us different? Why did we chuck the bad advice and learn better when some people end up abusing their kids?

 

To be honest, I have read these "christian" writers since (kinda recently even) and I *still* agree with them on most things outside of the consistent "spankings."

But on my thread it wasn't worth a parenting war??? It is okay to let someone else follow this advice with my child???:confused: Edited August 27, 2010 by Lovedtodeath

[Lovedtodeath]

She's too old for preschool here now. She'd have to go to K, which is full-day everywhere here, and I won't do that. Plus, yes, she's extremely peer-oriented, and I don't want to deal with what she'll bring home. She's like a sponge that way. I'm reading all your replies. You've given me some great ideas already, thank you so much.

I sent my DD to a small (8 students) Christian Preschool here in town. She behaved for them, it gave me a break, it was nothing but a good influence. They take kids up to 6 years old.

[mcconnellboys]

A lot of this sounds like behaviors my youngest had as a toddler and younger child (up through about age 8). He is pretty Obsessive/Compulsive and he quite frankly just would get into a loop and do things even though he knew that he shouldn't. We did about a year of therapy for him and he's been way, way better since....

[Terabith]

Could you send her to preschool and just say you're red shirting her for another year before K?

[mom2att]

"Now, let's go to your room and see what we can sell on ebay/yardsale, so that I can start saving up money to buy a new rug...." So, she gets the concept that your hard work PAID for what she's defacing and that when she messes up we have to replace what we've damaged. If you break something in a store, you have to pay for it (same concept).

 

 

There are a lot of nearly 5-year-olds who would "get" this, but in my experience the type of child in question would likely not. At least at my house that type of child didn't. Saying "you can't do X because of Y" was like speaking a foreign language to him. It wasn't until he was about 7 that that part of his brain seemed to kick in. In the years before that and most especially when he was 3 and 4, it was all about damage control. We did have a "self-control chair" where he sat when he needed to regain control. Long baths were also a major behavior changer (not as a punishment, just because he loved them and would be a different kid after). We also had luck with the change in diet by removing artificial flavors & colors.

[cermincantik]

:grouphug: I am sorry.

[ereks mom]

She was a terror and could not be left unattended until at least age 7 or 8, and her behavior and attitude didn't really change until she was around 10 or 11. I was so frustrated because this went on for years, and it seemed that nothing I tried did any good at all. I cried and I prayed--a LOT. But I stuck to it and didn't give up, and it finally paid off years down the line.

 

As a mom who has BTDT, my best advice to you is to continue to be consistent in dealing with her. Enforce your rules no matter how tired you are or how many times she breaks them. I have learned that the problem is, indeed, in the heart of the child. EK's problem was that she did not view me as an authority figure, and she challenged anything and everything I said until she finally matured to the point that I could reason with her.

 

I remember one day when she was about 10, I sat and talked with her (to her, actually) for probably about two hours. As gently as I could, I outlined her behavior pattern as I saw it: defiant, deliberately oppositional, etc. I told her how much her behavior worried me, and how I was concerned that she might begin to alienate everyone around her, and how I didn't want her to grow up to defy authority and wind up in trouble with the law, or even in prison... and I also emphasized over and over and over how very much I loved her. We cried together and prayed together, and somehow the light went on in her head, and she truly became a different kid. The change was dramatic, and it happened almost overnight.

 

Now, at almost 16yo, she is absolutely a delight. Adults love her, little kids adore her, and she is one of most popular kids in her peer group. She is one of my favorite people to spend time with.

[Lovedtodeath]

I remember one day when she was about 10, I sat and talked with her (to her, actually) for probably about two hours. As gently as I could, I outlined her behavior pattern as I saw it: defiant, deliberately oppositional, etc. I told her how much her behavior worried me, and how I was concerned that she might begin to alienate everyone around her, and how I didn't want her to grow up to defy authority and wind up in trouble with the law, or even in prison... and I also emphasized over and over and over how very much I loved her. We cried together and prayed together, and somehow the light went on in her head, and she truly became a different kid. The change was dramatic, and it happened almost overnight.

I had that talk with Emily too. :grouphug: