Spanking alternatives?

[KidsHappen]

You know, there are times when I would throw a 3 hour fit if I had the energy. Sometimes you just have anger and frustration that you need to get out. I know when I feel like that I just want to be left alone to work it out and then I can go back to the task at hand. So I give my children the same options. If they are having a meltdown they go to their room until they have calmed down and then come back and do whatever it is they were supposed to do. Frequently, they will fall alseep after raging for awhile which leads me to believe that either they were tired to begin with or they wore themselves out. In either case, a brief nap helps the situation. Obviously, this is when we are home. If they throw a fit when we are away from home (rarely happes any more) I simply walk away. The only time that it is ever a problem is if we are trapped in the car together. Sometimes I will pull over and park until they work it out which would make them late for whatever it is they want to do.

 

3 hours is pretty extreme though. If this is normal, I might consider a consult with a dr. or counselor. The only one of my children that raged like that for such a long period of time was the bi-polar one. The rest, maybe half-an-hour at most.

[mo2]

I try to follow the ideas in Hold On To Your Kids: putting the relationship first and gathering your children to you, rather than pushing them away. I'm strict and the the children get great reports on behaviour and politeness, but I discipline by hugs, more hugs, more hugs and talking them back into the family. If you want more details, I'm happy to supply.

 

Laura

 

 

I want more details! I would love to discipline with hugs!

[Laura Corin]

I want more details! I would love to discipline with hugs!

 

If one of my sons misbehaves (I should say that I occasionally snap and yell - I'm no saint) I gather him to me. He sits on my lap and we hug. I hold onto him until he is soft and compliant. I then just sit and rock him a bit, sing an old song, bring him back to me. If the other child needs something during this time, then he just has to wait. All my focus is on the child who needs to be brought back into the family. After a good while (at least five minutes, often longer) I talk to him about what it means to be a member of the family and what behaviour is expected. If he has an opinion to express, then I let him talk, so long as he does it respectfully. If he is still upset and lashing out, then we hug some more.

 

Once we have talked it out and agreed, then he goes on his way. If there is an absolutely connected consequence (like sweeping up pieces of something that got broken) then he completes that, but I don't manufacture consequences.

 

It's all about bringing him back into the family to increase your parent power, not pushing them away through spanking or time-outs.

 

I started doing this with Hobbes, whose bad behaviour escalated the more time-outs I gave him. It has turned out to be a good thing for teenagers too.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

Edited August 18, 2010 by Laura Corin

[Renee in NC]

I had a similar issue with my 10yo. Except that it was regular, daily tantrums that dissolved into destructive tantrums, throwing, hitting etc, often over very minor stuff. We spent many months trying to deal with it, coping through the tantrums and feeling sorry for him at the end when he was emotionally spent and with things to clean up. We dealt with behaviour leading up to it, coped during, and empathised and loved after. I bought books on dealing with anger and worked through them with him, we talked about the lead up and ways to deal with them. And yet it got worse and worse and worse, until I called a mental health line in desperation one night during a violent tantrum and after lots of very negative (almost suicidal) self talk by DS we ended up at the doctor and psychologist. I thought we had major issues.

We had 4 sessions with the psychologist and I'm not going to bore you with the details. But basically he asked us to punish the tantrums, to have really strong concrete boundaries and if it led to a tantrum, deal with it through it and then punish after. Admittedly we had been a bit flimsy with boundaries, trying to avoid melt downs but it had never occured to me to punish a child who seemed out of control.

 

Well we did what he asked us to do, the tantrums intensified for a few days, we coped and talked and loved through and when calmness had returned we punished with mega time out (to fit the severity of the tantrum). After about 3 days of really pushing, the tantrums got shorter and less serious and he pulled out of them quicker, he started to control himself better. In the end it wasn't lack of ability to control himself, but lack of desire to control himself. Within 4 weeks the tantrums had stopped, as had the negative self talk and we had a completely different child, he is far happier. Now and then he pushes the boundaries again to check they are concrete and finds they are.

 

I'm not sure I'd feel the need to punish an occasional long tantrum, but if they are getting more frequent, then it's worth considering. I don't think spanking is necessary, although we were taught a restraining method as DS was very violent, but a consequence may help. I realise this is contrary to what many people are saying here, but it worked for our family.

 

Sandra, this is very helpful to me as I have a 9yo who is similar (down the the almost suicidal negative talk.) Looking back over the past few months, punishing for the tantrums has worked. When we simply don't allow them and have a standard consequence, they go away. We just tell him that if he can't control himself at home, we can't let him go anywhere without us (so he can't go fishing with his brothers or to a friend's house alone.)

[TXMomof4]

I think teaching kids to cope with frustration is very important. I can see that a review math page after a summer off could be frustrating. I would have had him sit with me as he works until he had confidence. I don't "let" my kids get upset while doing school work. If they are getting frustrated I help them or I tell them to do something else for a while and come back to it. If they start crying I kindly send them to their bed until they can come back with a smile. They know the rule is that they do the work sometime that day. To me, there is no point in doing work with a bad attitude.

:grouphug:

 

If I see the meltdown coming, it's off to bed for a little bit. 99% of the time the offender falls asleep before they get to full meltdown mode. If they don't fall asleep I go talk to them after about 10 minutes. If they are really making an effort to control themselves we take a little break, have a snack then get back to it. One of those two things will fix the problem always at our house.

 

IMHO kids don't meltdown simply out of defiance or disrespect. They meltdown for a reason which leads to defiance and disrespect.

 

Avoiding that initial breaking point is good training for them and for me. I have to remember if I'm about to lose it all over the kids that maybe I need 10 minutes in my room or a spoonful of peanut butter.

[justamouse]

If one of my sons misbehaves (I should say that I occasionally snap and yell - I'm no saint) I gather him to me. He sits on my lap and we hug. I hold onto him until he is soft and compliant. I then just sit and rock him a bit, sing an old song, bring him back to me. If the other child needs something during this time, then he just has to wait. All my focus is on the child who needs to be brought back into the family. After a good while (at least five minutes, often longer) I talk to him about what it means to be a member of the family and what behaviour is expected. If he has an opinion to express, then I let him talk, so long as he does it respectfully. If he is still upset and lashing out, then we hug some more.

 

Once we have talked it out and agreed, then he goes on his way. If there is an absolutely connected consequence (like sweeping up pieces of something that got broken) then he completes that, but I don't manufacture consequences.

 

It's all about bringing him back into the family to increase your parent power, not pushing them away through spanking or time-outs.

 

I started doing this with Hobbes, whose bad behaviour escalated the more time-outs I gave him. It has turned out to be a good thing for teenagers too.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

 

Wow, that sounds awesome. I'm going to try that with my littles.

[justamouse]

that limbo between school starting and summer ending is hard-especially as homeschoolers. We have no yellow bus or big brick building to serve as transitional devices for us, you know?

 

Your having to go through this already is making me realize I'm going to have to establish some sort of transitional behavior for my own kids, who not only have had a totally free summer, but have just moved, too. We've had off a long, long time. I'm going to have to figure out something that physically and more importantly, emotionally, says, "this is school time now."

 

also, you just started homeschooling, right? Not JUST, but this is kinda new for you? I remember those days. There was a time of, "WE are homeschooling, I am responsible for your education and not having an education is NOT an option, at all."

[simka2]

Just wanted to say THANK YOU!!!! for all the replies. I cannot believe the wealth of information!!!!! You guys have given me so much to think about :)

[mo2]

If one of my sons misbehaves (I should say that I occasionally snap and yell - I'm no saint) I gather him to me. He sits on my lap and we hug. I hold onto him until he is soft and compliant. I then just sit and rock him a bit, sing an old song, bring him back to me. If the other child needs something during this time, then he just has to wait. All my focus is on the child who needs to be brought back into the family. After a good while (at least five minutes, often longer) I talk to him about what it means to be a member of the family and what behaviour is expected. If he has an opinion to express, then I let him talk, so long as he does it respectfully. If he is still upset and lashing out, then we hug some more.

 

Once we have talked it out and agreed, then he goes on his way. If there is an absolutely connected consequence (like sweeping up pieces of something that got broken) then he completes that, but I don't manufacture consequences.

 

It's all about bringing him back into the family to increase your parent power, not pushing them away through spanking or time-outs.

 

I started doing this with Hobbes, whose bad behaviour escalated the more time-outs I gave him. It has turned out to be a good thing for teenagers too.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

 

 

Thank you. This sounds so much more pleasant than the yelling and timeouts that tend to go on around here lately. I'm going to give it a try.

[Laura Corin]

Thank you. This sounds so much more pleasant than the yelling and timeouts that tend to go on around here lately. I'm going to give it a try.

 

It took a couple of weeks for us all to get used to the new way of working when we started - don't give up too soon. The key is for the adult to fake absolute calmness.

 

Laura

[mo2]

It took a couple of weeks for us all to get used to the new way of working when we started - don't give up too soon. The key is for the adult to fake absolute calmness.

 

Laura

 

Thanks. Now, I was thinking about the part where you talk about what it means to be a member of the family and what sort of behavior is expected. The behavior part I think I can handle, but when I think about what it means to be a member of this family, I have a hard time putting that into words. I'm going to have to think on that for awhile.

[Abigail4476]

I'm not a fan of spanking either, but whatever method of discipline you use, you need to be consistent. Kids do well with predictability and structure. If they're constantly having to test new boundaries, it adds a level of unnecessary frustration. State your expectations clearly, outline what consequences will occur if they aren't met, and stick to it. Don't change the consequences the moment they test you simply because you don't really want to mete out the consequence you threatened them with. I read (or heard) a comment by Dr. Phil that went something like, "Pick your battles carefully, but once you pick one - win it."

 

Personally, I wouldn't consider a Math Meltdown to be worth a spanking. If my child became that upset over math (or any other subject), I would think it was time for a break and pencil in fishing in our creek or some library time instead. If the frustration is consistent, then maybe a curriculum or methodology change is in order.

 

The nice thing about homeschooling is that you can respond to your child's needs and personality in a way that public and private school teachers cannot. (And often will not.) That means you can also respond to their meltdowns in the way that's best for them and your family, and not in a way that other people expect you to respond.

 

I remember when my children were babies, one of my sisters insisted repeatedly that they needed to be allowed to "cry it out" instead of picking them up when they cried. It was an outdated response (lack of response, actually) to baby's crying that I didn't believe in. I ignored her and made a habit of responding everytime my children cried. A baby crying means they have a need, so you respond to the need and the crying stops. Even if that "need" is just the desire to be held. (When did that ever become a bad thing? :) ) It turned out that it worked, at least with my kids. They were very calm, very secure, very confident little toddlers, and we never even had the "terrible twos." And contrary to the predicted outcome, they weren't clingy at all.

 

Anyway, the point is, you probably know what's best for your children and your family. Read expert opinions and editorials and books and get advice from online forums if you like, but ultimately follow your instincts and make decisions based on your unique child and your unique family dynamic.

[simka2]

I'm not a fan of spanking either, but whatever method of discipline you use, you need to be consistent. Kids do well with predictability and structure. If they're constantly having to test new boundaries, it adds a level of unnecessary frustration. State your expectations clearly, outline what consequences will occur if they aren't met, and stick to it. Don't change the consequences the moment they test you simply because you don't really want to mete out the consequence you threatened them with. I read (or heard) a comment by Dr. Phil that went something like, "Pick your battles carefully, but once you pick one - win it."

 

Personally, I wouldn't consider a Math Meltdown to be worth a spanking. If my child became that upset over math (or any other subject), I would think it was time for a break and pencil in fishing in our creek or some library time instead. If the frustration is consistent, then maybe a curriculum or methodology change is in order.

 

The nice thing about homeschooling is that you can respond to your child's needs and personality in a way that public and private school teachers cannot. (And often will not.) That means you can also respond to their meltdowns in the way that's best for them and your family, and not in a way that other people expect you to respond.

 

I remember when my children were babies, one of my sisters insisted repeatedly that they needed to be allowed to "cry it out" instead of picking them up when they cried. It was an outdated response (lack of response, actually) to baby's crying that I didn't believe in. I ignored her and made a habit of responding everytime my children cried. A baby crying means they have a need, so you respond to the need and the crying stops. Even if that "need" is just the desire to be held. (When did that ever become a bad thing? :) ) It turned out that it worked, at least with my kids. They were very calm, very secure, very confident little toddlers, and we never even had the "terrible twos." And contrary to the predicted outcome, they weren't clingy at all.

 

Anyway, the point is, you probably know what's best for your children and your family. Read expert opinions and editorials and books and get advice from online forums if you like, but ultimately follow your instincts and make decisions based on your unique child and your unique family dynamic.

 

 

:) I can already tell I'm going to like you!!!!! Can't wait to see more of your posts!

[bookfiend]

I have followed this thread with interest. In our experience, a swift and decisive consequence/response is often more merciful to the child than dragging out mini-consequences that escalate over time.

 

A wonderful book that advocate relationship parenting and grace-based discipline is Heartfelt Discipline by Clay Clarkson.

[simka2]

I have followed this thread with interest. In our experience, a swift and decisive consequence/response is often more merciful to the child than dragging out mini-consequences that escalate over time.

 

A wonderful book that advocate relationship parenting and grace-based discipline is Heartfelt Discipline by Clay Clarkson.

 

I'm going to have to take a look at this! I'm really on the fence about this issue right now. My son just seemed so relieved after the spanking...on the other hand I am having trouble reconcileing this with 2 things...his age (8) and the fact that I want his "heart" to remain soft towards me. I guess a better way to put it is I want him to feel SAFE and SECURE in his relationships with his parents.

 

Those are not mutually exclusive, but if there is another way...I WANT TO KNOW IT!!!

 

Thanks!

[mom31257]

I do believe in spanking, but not for everything and all the time. I think spanking works best in the younger years. When your child would rather be spanked than be grounded, you know it's not going to work anymore. I held to the idea that spanking should be for willful disobedience or an extremely bad attitude.

 

I will say that I've seen mine be horrible, do all the other stuff (time-out, etc.), and once I did spank them, it was like some kind of relief for them. They would be great after that.

 

I wished that I had done this with my oldest, but with my youngest, I would put him in time-out in his room, usually on the bed, and say you can come in here with us when you are ready to act right. It left the length of time up to him. I think it helped him learn to calm himself down and take control of his emotions. There were times I still had to spank him, but he got fewer than his sister. She is more stubborn and strong-willed, though.

 

I was spanked with a belt, but never in anger and only across the hips where you have extra padding anyway. I'm glad my parents did it. I respected them and do to this day. Did I fear them? No, not in a sense you would think, but I did care about obeying and pleasing them.

[LAmom]

Throwing a fit for three hours isn't fun for the child either, so he's not doing it just for fun. If they still have to do whatever was asked of them before the tantrum, then they will eventually (barring some significant special needs) learn that throwing a fit does not equal getting out of something they don't want to do. The point is to not reward the fit in any way - don't get emotional about it (yeah, WAY easier said than done!) and continue on with what they had to do before the fit - just what Simka did.

 

As a former champion fit thrower myself, I can say that having my parents be the immovable wall and time to grow up are all that really helped me. If my parents could stay calm and consistent with me when I just couldn't control myself, it was much more reassuring to me. It also helped teach me the self control that I didn't have then, but do have now. When they got mad at me, it NEVER helped the situation. I was usually too far gone emotionally to have the control to stop then, so the situation would just escalate into an hours-long ordeal for everybody.

 

Now when I'm parenting an out-of-control child, I try to remember my own experiences as a child like that. It is scary to a child to be that out of control, and my job as parent is to first help them regain control, then to help them make amends for what they did while out of control, and finally to return to whatever was interrupted so that the child learns that they will not get their way. All they do is delay doing what they have to do and use up their play time.

 

On another note:

 

When we have situations like that, there is invariably something else going on. The child is usually really tired, hungry, getting sick, or stressed by something else (death of a pet, friend moving away, moving house, etc.). In our house, hunger/low blood sugar is almost always part of the issue, so the very first thing I do is get a glass of milk and very emotionlessly insist that the child drink the milk. (I do this early on, to try to avert the really out-of-control, throwing phase of the fit.) This usually heads off the fit.

 

We also have done a star chart with our fit thrower. He earned a star for every day without a fit. There was no reward other than a star, but it was still a big incentive for him. Things have improved a huge amount for us, and we no longer use it, but it helped a lot while we did.

 

There can also be consequences for throwing fits. If a child uses a lot of my time throwing a fit, then he has to help me make that time back up by helping me with my normal chores - doing laundry, folding clothes, cooking, vacuuming, etc. Yes, this actually takes me a bit longer, but I find it to be an effective natural consequence, and the child learns valuable skills at the same time.

 

This was soooo helpful. Thank you!!:)

[QueenCat]

When ds has reached meltdown stage, which thankfully happens rarely now, a long bath or shower really helped.

[keptwoman]

Sandra, this is very helpful to me as I have a 9yo who is similar (down the the almost suicidal negative talk.) Looking back over the past few months, punishing for the tantrums has worked. When we simply don't allow them and have a standard consequence, they go away. We just tell him that if he can't control himself at home, we can't let him go anywhere without us (so he can't go fishing with his brothers or to a friend's house alone.)

I'm glad it was helpful :) I really thought we were headed for major mental health issues, it was incredible that it came down to concrete boundaries.

 

It took a couple of weeks for us all to get used to the new way of working when we started - don't give up too soon. The key is for the adult to fake absolute calmness.

 

Laura

Yes, completely agree. Calmness is crucial to get through the tantrum, and I find having a plan to deal with it makes calmness a lot easier to maintain.

 

I have followed this thread with interest. In our experience, a swift and decisive consequence/response is often more merciful to the child than dragging out mini-consequences that escalate over time.

 

A wonderful book that advocate relationship parenting and grace-based discipline is Heartfelt Discipline by Clay Clarkson.

 

I don't think that the decisive consequence need be spanking though. Any consequence that is set before the behaviour, and doesn't get put in place in the thick of the tantrum will work better than those dreadful escalating ones that can happen when you don't have a plan to deal with things.

[bookfiend]

I don't think that the decisive consequence need be spanking though. Any consequence that is set before the behaviour, and doesn't get put in place in the thick of the tantrum will work better than those dreadful escalating ones that can happen when you don't have a plan to deal with things.

 

:iagree: which is why I didn't label the decisive consequence. So much is dependent on the individual child and circumstances. However, as a generality, we prefer the nip it in the bud approach to problem behavior. Often a sharp, "that is unexceptable" is all that is required. The value of stating expectations and strong training can't be overstated.

 

What I frequently observe and think is totally ineffectual and so hard on the child is the series of warnings, distractions, small consequences, and timeouts that then culminate in a "big consequence" when everyone is wrung out and overwrought. The whole family suffers through trama only to end up where, if they had started there to begin with, life and relationship would have progressed in peace.

[Ester Maria]

If one of my sons misbehaves (I should say that I occasionally snap and yell - I'm no saint) I gather him to me. He sits on my lap and we hug. I hold onto him until he is soft and compliant. I then just sit and rock him a bit, sing an old song, bring him back to me. If the other child needs something during this time, then he just has to wait. All my focus is on the child who needs to be brought back into the family. After a good while (at least five minutes, often longer) I talk to him about what it means to be a member of the family and what behaviour is expected. If he has an opinion to express, then I let him talk, so long as he does it respectfully. If he is still upset and lashing out, then we hug some more.

 

Once we have talked it out and agreed, then he goes on his way. If there is an absolutely connected consequence (like sweeping up pieces of something that got broken) then he completes that, but I don't manufacture consequences.

:iagree:

 

Very similar here. I haven't read the book you mention, I just copied what my mother did :D, and while she definitely snapped once in a while and yelled and showed her frustration, most of the time she would just hug me or, when I was already a teenager, she tried to humor things and thus release the tension in the air.