The End of Men~Mamas Don't let Your Baby Girls Grow Up to Be Housewives~

[Barry Goldwater]

Every commercial on TV has the woman being smart and the male stupid, with her having to help him out. That really disgusts me. It's brainwashing America to believe it, too, and I guess the guys have started living up to the expectation.

 

:iagree: and also saw that with vitually every sit-com on TV (before we unplugged permanently last year).

 

Often the CHILDREN are the ones smarter than both parents too on these silly programs!

 

Another front in the culture wars?

[stripe]

Often the CHILDREN are the ones smarter than both parents too on these silly programs!

 

Another front in the culture wars?

I saw a piece with Malcolm Jamal Warner talking about his audition for a spot on the Cosby show, and how he started out playing the smart-alecky kid, and Bill Cosby made it clear that was not what he was looking for. I daresay there's not such an influence in many tv shows nowadays.

[Gratia271]

I've skimmed over the article, but I don't have time to read the thread. My dh teaches public high school. He said one problem with boys today is that many are not being raised with a dad in the home. Another is that books and learning are seen as "sissy".

 

I think education in America is contributing to this problem. Teachers are predominantly female, many of whom are feminists. I feel there is a prevailing disdain for males in feminists circles. Perhaps that is spilling over in the classroom and society, causing boys to feel bad about themselves.

 

Every commercial on TV has the woman being smart and the male stupid, with her having to help him out. That really disgusts me. It's brainwashing America to believe it, too, and I guess the guys have started living up to the expectation.

 

In my experience, I think there is cultural disdain for males in general, not really emanating from a particular group of women or men per se.

 

I'm not sure it is fair to blame a teacher's feminist beliefs. Maybe you know different kinds of feminists to the ones I know, but I don't know any who aren't just as concerned by the plight of boys as they are by the plight of girls. We have fathers, brothers, husbands and sons, and we care about them. I don't think it is a disdain for males so much as a frustration. Really, what can you do with them in a classroom if they won't sit down and be quiet? Even a teacher who believes wholeheartedly that wiggly boys are normal still has to keep them quiet and make them produce written work, because we all know that's the only learning that counts. :glare:

 

Of course, being raised predominantly by females, where are they going to learn about boys and how you are supposed to interact with them? From watching their fathers with their brothers? Maybe, if they have a father, if they have a brother, and if the two of them actually get along...

 

Rosie

 

My understanding of males and their learning needs has developed tremendously from reading Leonard Sax's books.

 

 

Dh's work largely involves helping young men learn what it actually means to be a young man....they dont seem to have a clue.

 

And yes, what is a female teacher to do when they are tied to a system that wants output in the form of written work, especially?

 

My grandmother was a teacher for years, then a child psychlogist. She always told me how important it was to get boys doing things with their hands. She encouraged me to play games where you sing.chant and throw things (like a beanbag or ball) and get them to jump on the trampoline reciting their times tables...rather than sit quietly to learn these things. Now if she, a woman just turned 90, knows these things, why are not our schools implementing them? SHe told me 10 years ago she was so disheartened that the school system seems to not act on the informati, andon that is there-and for many teachers that she worked with, this was new information- just to play games and have boys move their bodies. It doesnt work for the current teaching system, so what, they medicate the boys instead of changing the system?

 

But I wouldnt blame the teachers. Many try very hard.

 

:iagree:

 

I am at a loss as to how people justify medicating children for these behaviors. Meds seem to be the answer to just about everything these days. Nevermind the long term ramifications so long as we get Johnny to sit in the .... chair. What seems to matter the most is compliance and conformity. These are traits that are more characteristically manifested in females and not *typically* found in males. As a strong, independent woman, I am floored that adults see this as an asset in our girls. They are more likely to conform and perform for acceptance, validation, or their desire for peace. For me, it's not just about how boys and girls learn and the resulting performance. It's also why they perform. We need to understand these things if we are going to educate the whole person.

[Barry Goldwater]

I am at a loss as to how people justify medicating children for these behaviors. Meds seem to be the answer to just about everything these days. Nevermind the long term ramifications so long as we get Johnny to sit in the .... chair. What seems to matter the most is compliance and conformity. These are traits that are more characteristically manifested in females and not *typically* found in males. As a strong, independent woman, I am floored that adults see this as an asset in our girls. They are more likely to conform and perform for acceptance, validation, or their desire for peace. For me, it's not just about how boys and girls learn and the resulting performance. It's also why they perform. We need to understand these things if we are going to educate the whole person.

 

:iagree:

 

maybe Johnny doesn't want to sit in the chair!

 

Ironically, my oldest DD when she was little (less than 4 yrs old) was 'extra-ordinarily' energetic, and we feared 'if' we PSed her, there would be demands for medication or worse (duct tape?)...we knew even back then we were on the home-school track, but it did cross our minds. BTW she's still 'extra-ord.' energetic, but focused and constructive with it...

 

Not everyone learns best while seated in little rows with a blackboard and a class-room manager. (Ironically, it worked adequately, not great but okay, for me as a kid...weird).

[Gratia271]

:iagree:

 

maybe Johnny doesn't want to sit in the chair!

 

Ironically, my oldest DD when she was little (less than 4 yrs old) was 'extra-ordinarily' energetic, and we feared 'if' we PSed her, there would be demands for medication or worse (duct tape?)...we knew even back then we were on the home-school track, but it did cross our minds. BTW she's still 'extra-ord.' energetic, but focused and constructive with it...

 

Not everyone learns best while seated in little rows with a blackboard and a class-room manager. (Ironically, it worked adequately, not great but okay, for me as a kid...weird).

 

It did not work well for my energetic brother. Like the sons of several friends of mine, he did not perform well in the traditional classroom and was tested for problems only to discover he had a very high IQ. Energy coupled with boredom can be disastrous in the school setting.

[FaithManor]

"Energy coupled with boredom can be disastrous in the school setting." (Ask me about a game of "dodge the pitchfork" my dad played one afternoon as a young teen when a group of boys were bored while taking a break of haying! Never, ever, let a bunch of energetic 13-14 year old males get bored....this is very dangerous."

 

My youngest can do a mountain of school work so long as he gets to stand at the table and shift from foot to foot. He will never be a cube dweller. But, when his energy levels were quite high (preschool/k time frame), the ped insisted on having him I.Q. tested as a first battery of tests because he was convinced the boy was ADHD and on the autistic spectrum. I was homeschooling and not convinced. So, I brought his schoolwork in which caused the ped's mouth to fall open and bang the floor. Once he saw that, he said we needed the I.Q. test for the opposite reason.

 

We allowed it, mostly out of curiosity though we don't place much stock in I.Q. tests except for being predictive on either end, and at four years of age he aced the exam for 6 and 7 year olds. They had to extrapolate....of course NO ONE listens to the mother until some sort of crazy test backs her up.

 

It's a good thing we never allowed him to attend school. They would have demanded the right to medicate his brains right out of him! It doesn't seem to be about what is best for the child but what is convenient for the school and whatever makes the child conform to the herd.

 

Faith

[Audrey]

It's a good thing we never allowed him to attend school. They would have demanded the right to medicate his brains right out of him! It doesn't seem to be about what is best for the child but what is convenient for the school and whatever makes the child conform to the herd.

 

Faith

 

 

*sigh* I feel the same way about our ds. Such a bright boy, but definitely not a quiet little automaton. There are days when the thought of the part I bolded above makes me so very, very sad for the kids I know who are suffering in ps. Unutterably sad.

[Rosie_0801]

It doesn't seem to be about what is best for the child but what is convenient for the school and whatever makes the child conform to the herd.

 

 

I understand why it works this way, but what has me baffled is why there hasn't been a swing back to single sex schools. Time and space can be much more easily structured to accommodate wriggly boys if virtually all pupils are wiggly boys. Parents must want their boys trained to be little automatons :(

 

Rosie

[Gratia271]

I understand why it works this way, but what has me baffled is why there hasn't been a swing back to single sex schools. Time and space can be much more easily structured to accommodate wriggly boys if virtually all pupils are wiggly boys. Parents must want their boys trained to be little automatons :(

 

Rosie

 

It seems that way to me too! It is quite sad. Leonard Sax endorses single gender schools and started some I believe in the NE US.

[stripe]

Speaking of which, there was a very nice story in March on ABC's World News program about an all-boys school in Chicago:

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/seniors-chicago-school-college-10089708

[Renee in NC]

Speaking of which, there was a very nice story in March on ABC's World News program about an all-boys school in Chicago:

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/seniors-chicago-school-college-10089708

 

WOW! What an amazing school! I am very happy that those men did this for the boys of their community.

[tiffijo1]

Thanks for posting very interesting

[TXMomof4]

Listened to this a while ago on NPR - thought y'all might be interested.

 

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129084347

[Jayne J]

Ok--I am not one to revive old threads, but I just had to bring this up to link to this recent thread. There are hundreds of thousands of places for our wiggly boys--good paying ones too. Now we just have to let them know.

[TravelingChris]

In some ways, we are a traditional family= dad works, I stay home. Dh does yard work, repairs, etc. I do most of the cooking. I am the one who takes kids to doctors- it is something I know about and I have the time. The one time in the last few years that dh took one to the doctor (I may have been hospitalized at the time), he had to ask his daughter whether she has allergies and to what. He doesn't remember as well things like that. But it isn't that I am taking them because it is women's work or anything like that. I also am the main decision maker in the house since I take care of finances, taxes, and research large purchases. He is happy with that since he doesn't have the time.

 

I

[Elizabeth in WA]

My dh rarely talks about his wife and kids at work for this reason.

He says there is absolutely a double standard. No one ever asks the single mom or moms in general to stay overtime or come in on Saturday or question that she has to go do whatever for the kids. But with dh they absolutely do. Every single time they've asked why can't his wife do it or whatever and they simple do not do that with women. ("they" being every boss he has ever had since we had the first baby)

 

Fascinating. My dad did lots of daytime stuff, including home with sick kids when I was little because it was easier for him to get permission without career impact than for my mother. This was in the 70's, and era when my mom was refused jobs explicitly because she was pregnant, interviewers asked her about birth control, and none of that was illegal. She was one of 4 women in her law school class in 1969.

 

However, when I was working my husband dealt with kid emergencies for the same reason: he was a "good father," practically heroic for doing it, where I would have been unreliable, less than professional, for needing to leave suddenly. He still handles some kid emergencies, either because I am tied up with another kid (such as a memorable ER trip for one child while I was at the orthodontist with another child midway through having his bottom braces put on) or sometimes just because he likes them to know he is there for them when they really need him and they know his cell number off by heart since it hasn't changed as recently as mine so call him first. He is on salary and works ~80 hours a week, so the rare need to leave over a kid emergency doesn't even effect his vacation time, though he uses that for more planned time off like appointments.

[redsquirrel]

I take the kids to the doctor but my husband takes the morning off to stay with the other kid.

 

How does that work? My husband works for a university. It falls under the Family Leave Act. I call him and say "honey, take next monday morning off so I can take thing 2 to the doctor" and he says "Ok". With the FLA, he is allowed to use his own sick time for medical appts of others etc. And as a supervisor, he isn't allowed to ask why someone needs FLA time. They just have to say they are going to be gone and using that time and it is allowed.

 

So much of this issue is class related. It reminds me of reading I did in college about historical family tensions in the African American community. African American women could always work as a 'domestic' but the men often had a hard time finding ongoing work. Ok, I am reaching waaaaay back into the foggy bits of my mind....

 

And the idea that men will become superfluous isn't new. Every time women make gains some group will say that it is at the expense of men. This is what was going to happen when women got the vote, didn't you know? Yes, the family was going to collapse, women would start smoking and never come home again. I think this is what Dan Quayle warned about when Murphy Brown had her baby.

 

If it's not patriarchy, why does it have to be matriarchy? When did this become a zero sum game? Maybe we are making something new. As the mother of two boys, I think it is a very exciting time. I look forward to seeing what the next generation brings.