unschooling and classical, is it possible?

[Guest rubilynne4]

can you be an unschooler and classical at the same time? what is your definition of unschooling? just wondering? kind of interested in how you do it, and what exactly it is? lot's of misconceptions out there, i think. enlighten me please. interested seeker.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I'm sure some unschooler on here can give you a better answer, but....

 

*I* believe that unschooling and classical are REALLY close to one another on the continuum. Some people seem to think they are at opposite ends. Well, I see the continuum as circular so there aren't really ends. And I really don't see them at opposite points like east and west either. When I see them on the continuum, I kinda see them like I see the hour hand at 11:30 and 12:30. Sometimes I see them a little closer but...

 

BTW, I guess my idea of unschooling may need to be explained.

 

I do not consider the most extreme of radical unschooling when I consider such things. If a person refuses to teach their 7yo who is begging to learn to read and allows a diet of 90% junk food along with 90% of time in front of a video game and refuses to discipline (teach/guide) their child in any shape or form, that is neglect. Children NEED parents. If they could do it all themselves and do it well, we'd leave our young just like other animals do.

 

But if unschooling means that said child is doing what he/she needs to do in order to learn what he or she wants or needs to learn in order to do what he/she wants or needs to do? Cool. Most of the time, the child is going to learn by doing or because of something they read or by talking to people involved in that subject. Sometimes a curriculum may be helpful. Some kids may prefer systematic while others prefer natural exploration. There are a lot of possibilities. What it comes down to is what the kid needs or wants. And the parent? They are following their own interests. They are providing opportunities for exposure as well as opportunities for exploration of topics of need/want. They encourage thinking skills. They provide a foundation upon which and an environment in which learning happens naturally, through interest, and based on goals. The parent knows when to step up and when to step back.

 

Anyway, I'm not sure how one classically unschools unless their natural foundation and environment is more suited to it than my redneck family's is. I have NO doubt it can and is done though.

 

More often, people are probably eclectic or relaxed instead of truly unschooling. They may allow things to happen in certain subjects but follow a curriculum mom chooses for others. I see nothing wrong with it, but I do not believe it is possible to "unschool some subjects" as you'll hear by some homeschoolers. You're either pregnant or you're not; you're either an unschooler or you're not. You can't really be kinda either.

 

Anyway, so those are a few of my thoughts; but like I said, I know there are some who are classically unschooling on here who can share more. (btw, scroll down to the bottom of the page for "similar threads" for some other ideas)

[Ginevra]

IMO, they are almost opposites. I don't see the continuum of education as circular. If it were circular, "totally structured" would somehow wrap around to become "totally child-led". How could that ever be the case?

 

There are two basic concepts in unschooling. Radical unschooling (some say Dodd-type, for Sandra Dodd; google her) and "regular" unschooling (some say Holt-style, for John Holt). I don't see either of these concepts as being close to classical in any fashion. "Classical" is a category that explains a process; "Unschooling" is antithetical to category and parent-directed process. Unless your unschooled child just has an unusual desire to pursue Latin and Greek, learn history according to a chronological pattern, read and analyze great literature and learn Grammar and Logic, I see the two concepts as incongruent.

 

One can Classically educate in a more or less intense fashion, but being a relaxed Classical schooler (which I would call myself) is not unschooling.

[cathmom]

I am. I'll come back to this later.

[NanceXToo]

You can only unschool and classical school at the same time if the unschooled child desires a classical education :D

 

Of course... you can offer up classical things to the unschooled child without waiting for them to request it to see if s/he goes for it, but if not, you can't say "Well, you have to do this" even if the child does not want to... or it isn't unschooling.

 

ETA: My definition of unschooling is entirely child/interest led learning. When the child has an interest in a particular subject or topic, you do everything you can to help them fully explore that. You can certainly suggest/offer things without the child first asking, but whether they take you up on those suggestions or use the things you are offering is entirely up to them. You trust that they will learn what they need to learn when they need to know it and you don't force anything. You can't say (for example) "I unschool with everything except I make them learn to read" - that's not unschooling. If your child has zero interest in learning to read, and you're a true unschooler, you say to yourself, "Okay. Well, when he wants/needs to learn to read, he will." And you might leave things around/available that might tempt him to learn to read, and you're willing to teach it when he's ready, and you're willing to read to him in the meanwhile if he wants you to, but you don't force the issue of reading. If your child wants to do nothing BUT read for a whole school year and wants nothing to do with math, you don't say "you have to do math, too." Well you get the idea. That's my definition of unschooling!

Edited July 1, 2010 by NanceXToo

[Peela]

You can only unschool and classical school at the same time if the unschooled child desires a classical education :D

 

Of course... you can offer up classical things to the unschooled child without waiting for them to request it to see if s/he goes for it, but if not, you can't say "Well, you have to do this" even if the child does not want to... or it isn't unschooling.

 

:iagree:

I love the concept, but unless your kids are inclined that way....

 

In my home, it wouldn't happen. However, as they get older I do try and get them to take more responsibility for their own education, and in doing that, I take their own inclinations into consideration much more than before.

However I did not homeschool from the beginning so my kids came to homeschooling a little jaded form the system and that has never really left them 100%...and my kids are not like me, who would have enjoyed many aspects of a classical education as a child, and been self motivated. Not sure I woudl have had the discipline to unschool classically though.

[MelanieM]

can you be an unschooler and classical at the same time?

 

Yes, you can. I would say I'm a classically inspired unschooler. (Actually, I'd just call myself eclectic or relaxed to avoid the whole discussion, most of the time.) I strongly value and encourage interest-led learning, and believe my children should have the ultimate say in what they learn, how they learn it, and when. I also *love* the classical model of education and so I bring those elements into my home and introduce them to my kids, much to our enjoyment.

 

As far as unschooling goes it's really not what you do, but how you go about doing it. It's about freedom and choice and respect.

 

I do not think I need to force my children to learn anything in order to enjoy a classical education, and I don't believe I need to avoid curriculum in order to be an unschooler. Therefore, I think a marriage between the two is absolutely possible.

 

Of course, in addition to defining unschooling, you'd also have to define a classical education. I am most certainly not a purist, and so perhaps my use of the word classical when we simply incorporate components of a classical education is the equivalent of someone else saying they are not using a curriculum and therefore unschooling history. ;)

 

I do not consider the most extreme of radical unschooling when I consider such things. If a person refuses to teach their 7yo who is begging to learn to read and allows a diet of 90% junk food along with 90% of time in front of a video game and refuses to discipline (teach/guide) their child in any shape or form, that is neglect. Children NEED parents. If they could do it all themselves and do it well, we'd leave our young just like other animals do.

 

Pamela, do you actually know anyone that lives like this and calls it radical unschooling? I see this type of description regularly, but it doesn't actually match what I know of people who describe themselves as RU. Certainly I've never heard of any 'real' unschooler refusing to teach a 7yo who is begging to learn.

 

But if unschooling means that said child is doing what he/she needs to do in order to learn what he or she wants or needs to learn in order to do what he/she wants or needs to do? Cool. Most of the time, the child is going to learn by doing or because of something they read or by talking to people involved in that subject. Sometimes a curriculum may be helpful. Some kids may prefer systematic while others prefer natural exploration. There are a lot of possibilities. What it comes down to is what the kid needs or wants. And the parent? They are following their own interests. They are providing opportunities for exposure as well as opportunities for exploration of topics of need/want. They encourage thinking skills. They provide a foundation upon which and an environment in which learning happens naturally, through interest, and based on goals. The parent knows when to step up and when to step back.

 

 

Excellent description of unschooling! :D

 

More often, people are probably eclectic or relaxed instead of truly unschooling. They may allow things to happen in certain subjects but follow a curriculum mom chooses for others. I see nothing wrong with it, but I do not believe it is possible to "unschool some subjects" as you'll hear by some homeschoolers. You're either pregnant or you're not; you're either an unschooler or you're not. You can't really be kinda either.

 

 

Ha! So true. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding of what "unschool" means, and a lot of homeschoolers use it to refer to anything that doesn't look like school (not what it means) while others use it to describe doing *nothing* (also not what it means).

[MelanieM]

I cross-posted with Nance... excellent post! :agree:

 

I will add that while we do a lot of classical pieces right now with my daughter -- who has been asking for school-ish stuff since she came out of the womb, it seems -- I suspect that my middle son's education will not look nearly the same. And that's ok with me. He will always be invited to jump in, and if he happens to beg for WWE in the evenings like his sister, then great! But if not, then we'll find something that does float his boat when the time comes.

 

So yeah, again, it is about the personalities involved more than anything. I don't think it would be possible to be classical and unschooling if you had a kid that didn't like classical. You'd have to drop one ideal or the other in order to move forward.

Edited July 1, 2010 by MelanieM

[....]

We are entirely Child-Directed (I'm not going to use the term unschooling, but it really matches the description) in one of our subjects: Science.

 

I'm embarrassed to say (with a Bachelor of Science) that my oldest two kids know things I don't know in that subject area. Yesterday, my 8 yro came to me and told me about a species of reptile that she thought was endangered...this was something I thought was common and said, "Nay, Little Woman, such reptiles are not endangered." She stopped me again about 15 minutes later with two books in her hand, showing me how this particular reptile was on the endangered species list. Hmmmm...:D

 

I think what my point is...is that I can see how this method would work. There are several unschooling websites out there.

 

If you wanted to unschool with a classical focus?? It wouldn't be unschooling, unless the kids were requesting classical ed... However, throw semantics to the wind! You could do Mostly-Child-Directed Schooling, but with a classical theme? You know what I'm trying to say?

 

This is a tough question! :001_smile:

[2cents]

I look at classical as more of a curriculum choice and unschooling as an application of a homeschool method. I think that unschooling with a classical curriculum might be challenging because classical curriculum tends to require IMO more routine and might not jive well with the interest-led goal of many unschooling models. Impossible-no, but challenging-IMO yes.

[naturegirl7]

What a great topic! I am working to make them both fit together myself. I think that as an unschooler you can easily incorporate aspects of classical learning as your child expresses a need/desire for it. I think that we have been doing this the last several years with DS and it is really working well for us.

 

We have been "unschooling" so far - but I honestly dislike the term "unschooling" - so many people equate unschooling with not learning and kids just running amuck and that really isn't what it is all about. I think parenting philosophies differ dramatically and that sometimes we view others thru our own personal biases. Hence the horrid rep for "radical unschoolers" and even for "unschoolers" in general.

 

I personally like the term "child-led learning" - we follow his lead, as he is interested and has a fire to learn - we stoke that fire and provide him with as much instruction, resources, experiences, as we possibly can. I think that you can totally provide classical resources as they show interest, but that forcing them to sit for a half hour for math time when they don't want to do so would not be child-led and defeat the purpose. But that is not to say we dont' sit down for extended periods of time to "learn" together. Most of our day is spent "learning" together but it much more personalized.

 

I believe that child-led learning promotes a love of learning and a mastery of what they learn. I also believe that it promotes a drive to learn, self accountability for one's own learning, and confidence. I don't believe in forcing him to learn or practice anything - he won't enjoy himself or apply himself or retain what he memorizes. I don't have a set in stone curriculum or anything like that, but now that he is interested in learning more advanced topics I am looking for curriculums that will fit his personal learning style and can be used as I see fit to meet his needs.

 

 

 

To address some of the radical unschooler comments....

 

We are not radical unschoolers here - I do practice Attached Parenting and a child-centered philosophy when it comes to parenting. Perhaps to more strict families we might appear "radical" but I do know families that are waaaaaay more "relaxed" than we are.

 

I think the biggest issue with "radical unschooling" is the perception of a lack of discipline. Just as an AP mom, what I consider discipline may be dramatically different from what others consider discipline. We redirect ALOT and "take and break and talk" when necessary. I find that he learns more when we talk about his behavior and WHY he is acting a certaiin way and WHY it is not appropriate and what would be appropriate vs punishment/withholding.

 

I have found that my son is very compassionate, empathetic, and sensitive as a result. He literally cries when he sees other children being spanked in public, he truly hurts for those children and can not understand why the parents would do something so hurtful. A few days ago we were at the public pool and a mom was yelling at her toddler and just handling her a bit roughly - DS got really upset. He wanted to know "why is that mommy being so mean?" and asked me to "go make her stop, she is hurting that baby." Yet by mainstream standards there was nothing abusive about her behavior.

 

It is all perception and personal biases.

Edited July 1, 2010 by naturegirl7

[naturegirl7]

Perfectly said!

 

you can only unschool and classical school at the same time if the unschooled child desires a classical education :d

 

of course... You can offer up classical things to the unschooled child without waiting for them to request it to see if s/he goes for it, but if not, you can't say "well, you have to do this" even if the child does not want to... Or it isn't unschooling.

 

Eta: My definition of unschooling is entirely child/interest led learning. When the child has an interest in a particular subject or topic, you do everything you can to help them fully explore that. You can certainly suggest/offer things without the child first asking, but whether they take you up on those suggestions or use the things you are offering is entirely up to them. You trust that they will learn what they need to learn when they need to know it and you don't force anything. You can't say (for example) "i unschool with everything except i make them learn to read" - that's not unschooling. If your child has zero interest in learning to read, and you're a true unschooler, you say to yourself, "okay. Well, when he wants/needs to learn to read, he will." and you might leave things around/available that might tempt him to learn to read, and you're willing to teach it when he's ready, and you're willing to read to him in the meanwhile if he wants you to, but you don't force the issue of reading. If your child wants to do nothing but read for a whole school year and wants nothing to do with math, you don't say "you have to do math, too." well you get the idea. That's my definition of unschooling!

[Leola]

Well, it depends on how you define those terms.

 

IMHO, classical isn't a curriculum but a method. Can this method be child led? That is if you define unschooling as child led - sure.

 

I don't see anything in the definition of classical that requires the structure and rigor many say it does. And I really don't that structure and rigor are automatically eliminated in unschooling if you define it as child led. Some children are structured and driven and will seek this. I have friends who children crave this sort of academic rigor and they are very driven to a classical education. Because the children are leading they are by that definition - unschoolers.

 

So it depends - on the family and the definitions.

Edited July 1, 2010 by Leola

[naturegirl7]

I'm embarrassed to say (with a Bachelor of Science) that my oldest two kids know things I don't know in that subject area. Yesterday, my 8 yro came to me and told me about a species of reptile that she thought was endangered...this was something I thought was common and said, "Nay, Little Woman, such reptiles are not endangered." She stopped me again about 15 minutes later with two books in her hand, showing me how this particular reptile was on the endangered species list. Hmmmm...:D

 

 

 

 

LOL I hear ya! This happens ALL the time around here! And we thoght ourselves smart until he came along :D

[Guest rubilynne4]

wow! i went to bed and woke up and found all these replies. i really had no idea what unschooling meant. i guess what i'm thinking of is more of a relaxed approach. there are defintiely things i require of my children, and they aren't necessarily interested. i don't think i would budge on these requirements. however, how these requirements are met may be more child led (i.e. we can do more math one day, less the next, do science for a week and nothing else if that is where the primary interest is, then back to language arts, etc.). as long as we are making progress in each subject and learning. i guess what i really want is just a home where a love of learning is fostered. example: yesterday, my dd9 pulled a science textbook off the shelf, and started reading it because she had a question about minerals. no prompting from me, it was just for pure pleasure. :D i really got a kick out of it. and then earlier this year she read the same textbook in 2 days just because... it was like she was reading some great novel or something. that's what i want an atmosphere of learning all the time, but in such a way that it's as natural as breathing. does anyone know what i mean (i know you do)?:D

[Ester Maria]

In my understanding, no. Classical education is inherently structured; in fact one of the key characteristics of the classical education is the principle that education is a process with its own structure rather than a random "fit in what you like, when you like it" mix.

 

In our home, interest-led reading and learning are much appreciated - but they belong to the sphere of one's spare time. The core education is structured, its main elements are non-negotiable, and children can have an educated say on the specifics (if they can provide me with the arguments why they would prefer to read a book X and not a book Y on the topic we study or something of the kind, I will in fact consider it, and so far they have interfered in their own schooling as well), but we do not buy their fits nor include in the curriculum whatever they would like and exclude whatever they would like.

 

We support their side interests financially as well, and they're more than welcome to combine them with regular work, if possible (broadening some topic, etc.), and advance more quickly in the areas they wish to; along the way, we certainly change a thing or two or adapt it to suit us better (we're not slaves of a precise inflexible plan) - but the basic structure remains the same. :)

[Joanne]

can you be an unschooler and classical at the same time? what is your definition of unschooling? just wondering? kind of interested in how you do it, and what exactly it is? lot's of misconceptions out there, i think. enlighten me please. interested seeker.

 

Not if you talk to the purists on either side. There is no way that you can impose a classical education by any textbook definition and call it unschoolng (using unschooling's community definition).

 

What you *can* do is develop an educational and family style that speaks to your heart and knowledge of your children and your educational goals and move foward, not having to explain it to anyone.

 

:001_smile:

[jewellsmommy]

In my understanding, no. Classical education is inherently structured; in fact one of the key characteristics of the classical education is the principle that education is a process with its own structure rather than a random "fit in what you like, when you like it" mix.

 

In our home, interest-led reading and learning are much appreciated - but they belong to the sphere of one's spare time. The core education is structured, its main elements are non-negotiable, and children can have an educated say on the specifics (if they can provide me with the arguments why they would prefer to read a book X and not a book Y on the topic we study or something of the kind, I will in fact consider it, and so far they have interfered in their own schooling as well), but we do not buy their fits nor include in the curriculum whatever they would like and exclude whatever they would like.

 

We support their side interests financially as well, and they're more than welcome to combine them with regular work, if possible (broadening some topic, etc.), and advance more quickly in the areas they wish to; along the way, we certainly change a thing or two or adapt it to suit us better (we're not slaves of a precise inflexible plan) - but the basic structure remains the same. :)

 

 

This is what I was thinking. But, I will admit that I know very little about unschooling and that might be why I see the above to be true.

[JennW in SoCal]

I just described my approach on the K-8 board so will repeat myself here. I am of the "whatever works" method of homeschooling, and what has worked with our family is to be relaxed, unschoolish if you will, about science, literature and history, and structured with writing and math.

 

To me, unschooling is what Sandra Dodd describes as "strewing the path with interesting rocks". I have surrounded my kids with interesting books, activites and materials all thier lives. We read aloud, watch intersting documentaries, visit intersting places, explore our creative interests and talk about it all. By high school their subjects have been all laid out with assigned readings, but I have often tailored their subjects to their interests.

 

Math and writing are skills that have to be practiced. I've never unschooled those, and with writing I have followed path of copy work to dictation to narration to essay and research paper. I also included a study of logic so my kids have the tools to structure and logically articulate their thoughts.

 

The end result is that it worked. I have two thoughtful, well rounded and articulate young men who are excellent writers and capable students. They enjoy learning. A few years ago when my oldest was coming out of the eye-rolling stage of teen-age-hood, he commented to me that he loved how our family always went on tours when we travel, and that we'd be the only engaged family in the tour group, asking questions and wanting to know more. He has said he is thankful that we homeschooled and kept learning a joyful and natural part of life.

[Guest rubilynne4]

Not if you talk to the purists on either side. There is no way that you can impose a classical education by any textbook definition and call it unschoolng (using unschooling's community definition).

 

What you *can* do is develop an educational and family style that speaks to your heart and knowledge of your children and your educational goals and move foward, not having to explain it to anyone.

 

:001_smile:

nicley said. that's what i think i'm doing. taking what works for us and using it.

[naturegirl7]

i guess what i really want is just a home where a love of learning is fostered. example: yesterday, my dd9 pulled a science textbook off the shelf, and started reading it because she had a question about minerals. no prompting from me, it was just for pure pleasure. :D i really got a kick out of it. and then earlier this year she read the same textbook in 2 days just because... it was like she was reading some great novel or something. that's what i want an atmosphere of learning all the time, but in such a way that it's as natural as breathing. does anyone know what i mean (i know you do)?:D

 

 

What you just described is a daily event here. :D Nothing is more rewarding than those moments.

 

DS is in love with learning and devours books, experiments, documentaries, nature hikes, etc. We went out last night for pizza, and his big request afterwards was to go to the bookstore. He could care less about toy stores - he BEGS to go to bookstores. He marched himself right to the educational area and spent about an hour reading thru various ancient history, mythology, and science books. He finally decided upon yet another human body book. He is barely 5, and without a doubt I can say that he knows MORE about the human body and how it works than alot of my colleagues do - and I am in the medical field!!!

 

And not once have we "taught" him any of it - he has taught himself thru his own reading and researching (yes he actually will research things! just cuz he wants to know MORE - always more LOL) And he loves coming to us and sharing with us what he has learned - and then we can discuss it and expand on it. It is amazing the conversations I have with a 5yo!

 

I am planning a very literature based, very loose curriculum for him (which is where a bit of classical comes into play for me) - I can guide him gently with some of the new books I bring into the house. But mainly I am going to feed his current obessions like ancient history.

[Pamela H in Texas]

But if unschooling means that said child is doing what he/she needs to do in order to learn what he or she wants or needs to learn in order to do what he/she wants or needs to do? Cool. Most of the time, the child is going to learn by doing or because of something they read or by talking to people involved in that subject. Sometimes a curriculum may be helpful. Some kids may prefer systematic while others prefer natural exploration. There are a lot of possibilities. What it comes down to is what the kid needs or wants. And the parent? They are following their own interests. They are providing opportunities for exposure as well as opportunities for exploration of topics of need/want. They encourage thinking skills. They provide a foundation upon which and an environment in which learning happens naturally, through interest, and based on goals. The parent knows when to step up and when to step back.

 

Excellent description of unschooling!

 

Melanie,

 

This is how WE did. And we have been told OVER and OVER and OVER again that it is NOT unschooling. I was also told we were entirely too strict (and we are the ones using positive, non-punitive discipline!). Repeatedly we were pointed to more "radical" examples of unschooling and non-coercive parenting. I believe in a LOT of what NCPs and unschoolers do, of course, but I'm just not willing to cross that line. I believe it is healthy and appropriate (and Biblical!) to parent and unschool as I've stated here, not as we were encouraged to do.

 

I think Joanne is right. I think if you take the most "pure" of either group, you'd find them incompatible. Without being "pure" I was pretty ruffled the first time I read through the rubbish we know as TWTM. And without being pure classical, I certainly ruffle a lot more about RUing (as I saw it and still hear/read about). I would definitely lean more classical if I did it again. And yet, I'm definitely a better late than early person in some regards also. I just can't be "pure" about any of this because I'm trying to fit the pieces of *my* philosophy based on child development, my faith, my ideals regarding education, etc into silly boxes called BLTE, Unschooling, Classical, blah blah.

 

Before my ds started using a program (all but a year of my daughter's education and all of my son's elementary education and some inbetween), I called it Kimyschooling and Tyschooling. Fact is, we don't fit a box and I really don't want to.

Edited July 2, 2010 by 2J5M9K

[MelanieM]

Pamela, I feel like people have drifted from what John Holt first described as unschooling and sometimes get caught up with "rules" that don't match the philosophy. I don't know that I'd call them purists... I think John Holt would be the purist, and I believe your description would fit his idea of unschooling just fine! Sorry you were ever in a position of having to defend against such things. That rather baffles me (though I'm well aware that it happens regularly).

 

There's probably no one in classical or unschooling circles that would agree with my use of either label. Ha! But that's ok, because I get to enjoy the huge buffet of options available to me and call it whatever I want. That's the beauty of a home education! :D

[FO4UR]

I've often daydreamed about teaching math, LA, and maybe Latin classically. Then, unschool all else.

 

My daydreams are often confirmed when I leave a crate full of books out to plan, and the books turn up missing for a day until one of my dc bring it to me to read aloud. I don't have the heart to tell them, "No dear, we will read this exciting book on Tuesday of week 4....now be patient." One of the reasons I HS is b/c I was completly turned off as a child by the attitude of "We don't care what you want to learn about, so sit down, be quiet and memorize this list!":001_huh:

 

I balance that though with the reality that I am mom to 3 young ones...so there is great benefit to my planning some things. If I don't plan (read: MAKE myself:tongue_smilie:) to do the messy things, they are easily passed over.

[Joanne]

From a defining standpoint, just using the term "unschool science"or "unschool history" is a co-opt of the term "unschool" and not what unschooling is. It certainly describes some approaches to certain subjects - but even *having* certain scripted, delineated subjects is counter to "unschooling".

[Joanne]

What a great topic! I am working to make them both fit together myself. I think that as an unschooler you can easily incorporate aspects of classical learning as your child expresses a need/desire for it. I think that we have been doing this the last several years with DS and it is really working well for us.

 

We have been "unschooling" so far - but I honestly dislike the term "unschooling" - so many people equate unschooling with not learning and kids just running amuck and that really isn't what it is all about. I think parenting philosophies differ dramatically and that sometimes we view others thru our own personal biases. Hence the horrid rep for "radical unschoolers" and even for "unschoolers" in general.

 

I personally like the term "child-led learning" - we follow his lead, as he is interested and has a fire to learn - we stoke that fire and provide him with as much instruction, resources, experiences, as we possibly can. I think that you can totally provide classical resources as they show interest, but that forcing them to sit for a half hour for math time when they don't want to do so would not be child-led and defeat the purpose. But that is not to say we dont' sit down for extended periods of time to "learn" together. Most of our day is spent "learning" together but it much more personalized.

 

I believe that child-led learning promotes a love of learning and a mastery of what they learn. I also believe that it promotes a drive to learn, self accountability for one's own learning, and confidence. I don't believe in forcing him to learn or practice anything - he won't enjoy himself or apply himself or retain what he memorizes. I don't have a set in stone curriculum or anything like that, but now that he is interested in learning more advanced topics I am looking for curriculums that will fit his personal learning style and can be used as I see fit to meet his needs.

 

 

 

To address some of the radical unschooler comments....

 

We are not radical unschoolers here - I do practice Attached Parenting and a child-centered philosophy when it comes to parenting. Perhaps to more strict families we might appear "radical" but I do know families that are waaaaaay more "relaxed" than we are.

 

I think the biggest issue with "radical unschooling" is the perception of a lack of discipline. Just as an AP mom, what I consider discipline may be dramatically different from what others consider discipline. We redirect ALOT and "take and break and talk" when necessary. I find that he learns more when we talk about his behavior and WHY he is acting a certaiin way and WHY it is not appropriate and what would be appropriate vs punishment/withholding.

 

I have found that my son is very compassionate, empathetic, and sensitive as a result. He literally cries when he sees other children being spanked in public, he truly hurts for those children and can not understand why the parents would do something so hurtful. A few days ago we were at the public pool and a mom was yelling at her toddler and just handling her a bit roughly - DS got really upset. He wanted to know "why is that mommy being so mean?" and asked me to "go make her stop, she is hurting that baby." Yet by mainstream standards there was nothing abusive about her behavior.

 

It is all perception and personal biases.

 

 

Michelle, you sound like the passionate mother of one young child. :D

 

I AP'ed my kids starting 15 years ago. I was one of the original online "positive discipline" teachers. I have passionately explained and defended the family bed, "extended" nursing, non punitive parenting.

 

And, 15 years later, I've observed that there are many ways to raise compassionate, empathetic, interested in learning, amazing children. I've seen such children/young adults from very relaxed settings and settings where they slept remote from parents, "cried it out" as sleep training and had an occassional swat on the bottom.

 

If I were to have another child today, I'd parent the same way I did. The only thing I'd do differently is to let go of the idea that I had the only way that was "right".

[ourjourneys]

I've often daydreamed about teaching math, LA, and maybe Latin classically. Then, unschool all else.

 

My daydreams are often confirmed when I leave a crate full of books out to plan, and the books turn up missing for a day until one of my dc bring it to me to read aloud. I don't have the heart to tell them, "No dear, we will read this exciting book on Tuesday of week 4....now be patient." One of the reasons I HS is b/c I was completly turned off as a child by the attitude of "We don't care what you want to learn about, so sit down, be quiet and memorize this list!":001_huh:

 

I balance that though with the reality that I am mom to 3 young ones...so there is great benefit to my planning some things. If I don't plan (read: MAKE myself:tongue_smilie:) to do the messy things, they are easily passed over.

 

Your daydreams sound eerily familiar to me! I go through spurts of feeling confident that we can relax on most subjects. But then I get the heart sinking feeling that we must straighten up, get the schedule out and pull out only the books we need for this time. Forgetting that the kids can learn much more if they are interested in the books and they like their freedom.

Memorizing math and history facts has been horrible to me over the last years. I did not have the ability to think through math problems until I began homeschooling and re-learned math. I could not tell you many dates in history until we began homeschooling and re-learning. We learned everything just to take a test and then it was gone.

However, I think that if we could have really been engaged in what we were learning that we could have been dynamic in our education!

So, I hope that I am changing that for my kids by allowing them to learn at home... :bigear:

[angela in ohio]

From a defining standpoint, just using the term "unschool science"or "unschool history" is a co-opt of the term "unschool" and not what unschooling is. It certainly describes some approaches to certain subjects - but even *having* certain scripted, delineated subjects is counter to "unschooling".

 

:iagree:

 

My unschooler friends freak out when they hear someone say they unschool one subject or unschool in the afternoon after lessons are done. :001_smile: Classical unschooling might push them over the edge. :D

 

The term unschooling has been redefined by many as "relaxed," but we already had a term for "relaxed"... relaxed. :001_smile: So many people use the word unschool instead of relaxed, not understanding that they are co-opting the term for a philosophy of education in a way that is insulting to others.

[HS Mom in NC]

It depends which type of Classical Education you're talking about. Since no one owns the term Classical, it's important to remember there are different versions of Classical.

 

Trivium Classical Education teaches History chronologically following stages; Grammar, Logic, and Rhetoric. Formal Logic ends to be taught in a specific structured way. Some, like TWTM, the Bluedorns, and Veritas Press's curriculum, do a more structured version. There are plenty of people doing a much more a Charlotte Mason/Living Books version and others doing a more unity study approach.

 

A Thomas Jefferson Education is a Mentor /Statesman Model of Classical Education and could probably be considered unschooling in the earlier stages where a child's interest combined with a parent's "inspiring" (They often say, "Inspire. Don't require.") allows the child to pursue his/her own interests. The in the later stages the children are reading Classics in various subjects most of their day.

 

The Principle Approach could probably go either way. It's a mostly primary source based approach, but it could be used flexibly and connected to a child's interest in an area related to Science, History, Politics, etc.

 

The Socratic Questioning version of Classical Education I guess could be adapted somewhat to fit a more unschooling approach. I've never used this approach or met anyone who has.

 

It can also depend on what you mean by "unschooling."

 

There is the John Holt version of delight driven, child-centered learning. Different parents take this to higher and lesser degrees.

 

Then there is the "all practical application" version that is not necessarily child-centered. These are the people who use only real life projects and applications-not textbooks, workbooks, etc. that separate the skills from real life. The books they use (Classic writings could fall into this category) are studied to be used in real life situations. They distinguish between an education (real life, real use) and schooling (compartmentalized, pencil and paper theory.)