Any Catholic CC Tutors?

[lauracolumbus]

I am wondering how to respond to the Statement of Faith Essentials. There are several areas that conflict with Catholic doctrine, and my director said I could just write in changes to agree with my faith. She implied that should be sufficient. I'm curious as to how others (if there are any) have dealt with this.

 

Thanks,

Laura

[asta]

I am wondering how to respond to the Statement of Faith Essentials. There are several areas that conflict with Catholic doctrine, and my director said I could just write in changes to agree with my faith. She implied that should be sufficient. I'm curious as to how others (if there are any) have dealt with this.

 

Thanks,

Laura

 

I'm not sure what you mean - do you mean the catechism? And what do you mean by "my director"? Is this a co-op or a job?

 

I was told by a Jesuit Professor that, for a Roman Catholic, unless the "statement of faith" by a group was the Nicene, Apostolic, or Athanasian Creed, it was not in line with the magisterium, and was not to be signed by a practicing Catholic.

 

Don't know if that helps you or not, because I'm not certain of your question.

 

 

asta

[Violet Crown]

My take on statements of faith is that one of their purposes is to permit those signing them to be able to assume that others in the co-op, support group, or whatever association are all of one mind. If I have to write in alterations, or interpret points with one eye shut and the other squinted so as not to conflict with my own beliefs, I'm both defining my own faith down to the lowest common denominator and representing myself in a false light to others who have signed the statement of faith wholeheartedly.

 

In other words, if something about it makes you hesitate, walk away.

 

(I have used this principle more often within the Catholic Church than outside it, by the way. Just the basic Creed for me, please.)

 

YMMV.

[Faithr]

I know someone who teaches at a Classical Conversations co-op who is Catholic. She didn't have trouble with the statement of faith, however, in the older grades when they study the reformation, etc there are definite conflicts.

[Renee in NC]

I know someone who teaches at a Classical Conversations co-op who is Catholic. She didn't have trouble with the statement of faith, however, in the older grades when they study the reformation, etc there are definite conflicts.

 

I do not understand how anyone who is Catholic can agree to the Faith Statement of Classical Conversations. I was interested in being a Challenge Director for CC until I realized I would have to affirm the Faith Statement. There are serious problems with it from a Catholic perspective.

 

The areas of greatest concern are in the Scripture section (it specifies the 66 books as being complete as well as the supreme and final authority) and in Section 5 where it defines "the Church."

 

To the OP, obviously the director doesn't have a problem with the problems (LOL), but it *is* a problem for others I would think. I would prefer things to not have a Statement of Faith, but if you have one, and the other parents are given the Statement, it seems to me that to change it would be immoral. Unless, of course, the parents of the students that you tutor were given your changed copy.

 

I was willing to enroll my dc in CC even with the differences in beliefs. I was a little leery of the Timeline memorization because of the use of the Veritas Press cards (and their stance on the, well, Reformation.) I saw that at the higher levels it was going to get more difficult to adapt it to our beliefs. We didn't end up doing it because of the cost (and my inability to affirm the Faith Statement in order to tutor or be a Challenge Director.)

[G5052]

I could never sign a statement of faith I didn't agree with, modified or not. I left a homeschool group over that type of thing when they merged with a church for insurance reasons and took on the church's statement of faith.

 

Certainly there are Catholics in CC, even some who tutor and/or register their kids in Challenge, but my sense is that they're OK with the statement of faith, not that they're modifying it.

[8filltheheart]

I am wondering how to respond to the Statement of Faith Essentials. There are several areas that conflict with Catholic doctrine, and my director said I could just write in changes to agree with my faith. She implied that should be sufficient. I'm curious as to how others (if there are any) have dealt with this.

 

Thanks,

Laura

 

:iagree: with the others. I don't sign statements that disagree w/my own. But, I wouldn't participate in CC period b/c it actually teaches beliefs opposing Catholicism. Veritas Press is a company I don't want to financially support. ;)

[Faithr]

I'm wondering if it has to be the same statement of faith for every CC, or if they vary group to group? Because as I recall, and this was a few years ago, she showed the statement and it was just the Creed. So maybe there is leeway there? Or maybe I'm not remembering correctly (which is quite possible!!!). There were also a number of other ladies in the co-op who were Catholic and I know they are faithful ones. So perhaps this group was run a little differently.

[Renee in NC]

:iagree: with the others. I don't sign statements that disagree w/my own. But, I wouldn't participate in CC period b/c it actually teaches beliefs opposing Catholicism. Veritas Press is a company I don't want to financially support. ;)

 

Is there anything other than the Reformation issue? I am just curious as I never really saw much religious information in the materials I looked over. You can PM me if you want to avoid controversey.

[8filltheheart]

Is there anything other than the Reformation issue? I am just curious as I never really saw much religious information in the materials I looked over. You can PM me if you want to avoid controversey.

 

Apparently, I don't know how to avoid controversy! ;) Actually, I try to keep my comments on the forum pretty factual even though my opinion and bias definitely do affect my views. But, it isn't like I make them up. :D

 

The CC Veritas Press history cards do have some anti-Catholic and incorrect information. (It has been a long time since I have seen them, so I can't remember specifics anymore.)

 

Omnibus is a completely different topic. It is authored by Douglas Wilson. If you spend anytime reading DW, http://www.dougwils.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=70:roman-or-catholic you can form your own opinion as to whether or not he is able to offer an objective history.

[higginszoo]

We have several great CC co-ops around here, but have just had to decide that as great as they may be, we just can't sign. I've ended up taking much the same approach that Sharon has, and just worked on finding other, non-SOF outlets for all of us.

[Faithr]

I do agree that the materials themselves are problematic. I think in this co-op they just ignored the Ref. info on the back of the timeline cards. However, once you get into Omnibus stuff there's just no way a Catholic could use it. I tried! We were arguing with almost every line! It was so over the top, hit you over the head with their particular brand of Protestantism. It was not objective in the least!

[Violet Crown]

Though just to keep things fair and in perspective, one reason I could never use Seton is the uber-Catholic and anti-Protestant (sometimes beyond bias to the point of falsehood) view that affects nearly every part of their curriculum I've ever seen.

 

If we could all strive to see others' views and historical actions with the maximum, instead of the minimum, charity and generosity of interpretation--especially when we're teaching our children about them!

[Renee in NC]

Though just to keep things fair and in perspective, one reason I could never use Seton is the uber-Catholic and anti-Protestant (sometimes beyond bias to the point of falsehood) view that affects nearly every part of their curriculum I've ever seen.

 

If we could all strive to see others' views and historical actions with the maximum, instead of the minimum, charity and generosity of interpretation--especially when we're teaching our children about them!

 

I haven't heard about Seton being anti-Protestant, but it is *so* Catholic I can't imagine a Protestant using it. I know that someone on here has discussed her problem with Catholic (over)bias in Catholic textbooks, but I can't remember who it was.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Renee in FL

[MomOfOneFunOne]

I am wondering how to respond to the Statement of Faith Essentials. There are several areas that conflict with Catholic doctrine, and my director said I could just write in changes to agree with my faith. She implied that should be sufficient. I'm curious as to how others (if there are any) have dealt with this.

 

Thanks,

Laura

 

Laura, the following describes my experience with CC. I strongly discourage any Catholic to participate.

 

The local CC was started by a woman who says she's Catholic.

 

In the information meetings, we were shown the cards that the students would be memorizing. I read the virulently anti-Catholic material and asked how a Catholic could use such things. She assured me (and so did the website) that the back of the card (with the antiC "info") is optional and wouldn't be part of the required curric. I have to tell you and I have discussed it with my confessor, that I turned a blind eye. I thought that somehow that would be okay. We'd ignore the bad and just do the good.

 

The director and website both insist that as parents, we make all decisions regarding the education and faith formation of our children. However, in practice, that is not true. They say that you can memorize what you want in the way you want, et c. but then when we changed one bit to conform to our own way of thinking, her tutor and the director told her/us that she would not be able to do something at the end. I dont' remember what. It was definately setting her aside, however.

 

After a certain point, my daughter was singled out and "treated differently." The tutor was awful to her. When I finally approached the director and tutor, it was just awful. The tutor grunted, Grunted!, and said, "Oh, great, Mary Grace again." I was outraged at the way she spoke about my daughter but reigned it in until I could get some feedback from her CCD teachers, et c. I requested a meeting with the director and tutor. The tutor "apologized" by saying, "I'm sorry that you took my words so hard." or something like that. I dont' remember her exact words but I wrote them down that day and still have them in a journal somewhere. I replied that she couldn't apologize for my feelings and actions but only for her own and asked that she take responsibility for what she had done. The director called me names for doing that and said I was the most ungracious person she had ever seen.

 

All the while, I was also a tutor. When I rec'd the statement of faith, I refused to sign it. I guess she needed the tutors b/c she never asked again. She accepted all my paperwork and paid me to tutor and I never did sign or hand it on.

 

After all that, I wanted to withdraw my daughter from anything to do with CC. My husband, who hadn't seen the whole awful thing, said that we committed and should follow through. I told that to the director and told her that I personally was through with CC but it only remained to be seen if I would obey my husband and continue or quit. She called me later to say that, "I'm not a prophet but I'm like one" and b/c of that, she could tell me that if I didn't obey my husband, something bad would happen to me. I kid you not! Happily, my husband was home and heard that and many other outrageous things she said and went from insisting that I follow through to forbiding me from any further contact with her or CC ever again.

 

I have read that "statement of faith." It is, unless they've changed it, incompatible with The Catholic Faith. Please, do not sign it or even bother with tweeking. Run away!

 

I know, it is attractive isn't it? Please, seek spiritual direction. Seek the advice of your confessor.

[MomOfOneFunOne]

My take on statements of faith is that one of their purposes is to permit those signing them to be able to assume that others in the co-op, support group, or whatever association are all of one mind. If I have to write in alterations, or interpret points with one eye shut and the other squinted so as not to conflict with my own beliefs, I'm both defining my own faith down to the lowest common denominator and representing myself in a false light to others who have signed the statement of faith wholeheartedly.

 

In other words, if something about it makes you hesitate, walk away.

 

(I have used this principle more often within the Catholic Church than outside it, by the way. Just the basic Creed for me, please.)

 

YMMV.

 

Amen!!

[8filltheheart]

Though just to keep things fair and in perspective, one reason I could never use Seton is the uber-Catholic and anti-Protestant (sometimes beyond bias to the point of falsehood) view that affects nearly every part of their curriculum I've ever seen.

 

If we could all strive to see others' views and historical actions with the maximum, instead of the minimum, charity and generosity of interpretation--especially when we're teaching our children about them!

 

I don't know about Seton, but anything by Anne Carroll has me running in the other direction b/c it is so far removed from authentic Catholic history.

[TwinMominTX]

We have several great CC co-ops around here, but have just had to decide that as great as they may be, we just can't sign. I've ended up taking much the same approach that Sharon has, and just worked on finding other, non-SOF outlets for all of us.

 

Only contracted tutors and/or directors are required to sign the statement of faith. Other families of many faiths (agreeing with the statement or not) are welcome to join.

[lauracolumbus]

Yikes! I spoke w/another very faithful Catholic tutor, who told me she just amended the statement to fit her beliefs, which is what I did. I informed the director of my CC campus that I would be amending it. She said I was more than welcome to, and if I wanted to re-write the whole thing to fit my faith I could go that route. We were involved in the campus last year as students, and they were very accommodating in allowing us to substitute our version of scripture memorization and anything else we felt uncomfortable with. There are a couple of other Catholic families involved in the program.

 

Honestly, we never read the back of the VP cards, so I didn't see the info on the Reformation--just the memorization of the order of events. I developed a wonderful relationship w/many of the families who were fully aware of our faith (I usually wore a crucifix and discussed faith issues with them). Last year I thought CC was a good launching point with my dc to discuss the differences between our faith and others, as well as enlightening others (esp. evangelical Christians) about Catholicism. Most of our hs friends are Catholic, and it seemed like a good way to branch out and expose my dc and expose others to our faith. Now, you've all given me serious pause.

 

There were 3 areas of conflict w/the statement: sola scriptura, the # of books of the Bible, and salvation through grace. I guess I should discuss w/my priest. I'm feeling pretty uncertain now, esp. since I sent in the statement and my check this morning.

 

Thanks for all of your responses.

Laura

[angela in ohio]

Yikes! I spoke w/another very faithful Catholic tutor, who told me she just amended the statement to fit her beliefs, which is what I did. I informed the director of my CC campus that I would be amending it. She said I was more than welcome to, and if I wanted to re-write the whole thing to fit my faith I could go that route. We were involved in the campus last year as students, and they were very accommodating in allowing us to substitute our version of scripture memorization and anything else we felt uncomfortable with. There are a couple of other Catholic families involved in the program.

 

I have never heard of this being acceptable, but who knows? The reason for the SOF is so that the parents paying to enroll their dc know the beliefs of the person tutoring their dc, though, and I think this would potentially cause some problems for the Director.

 

We had several Catholic families on our campus as customers, but not as tutors. They knew that what would be presented in class and what they would be memorizing in class would not agree with their faith. They were willing to let it go as 'exposure' to other ideas for their dc, with plenty of discussion at home afterwards, and it all worked out fine.

[angela in ohio]

I have read that "statement of faith." It is, unless they've changed it, incompatible with The Catholic Faith. Please, do not sign it or even bother with tweeking.

 

I'm not Catholic (though my family is and many of my friends are,) but I admire those who take a stand. :001_smile: Good for you!!

[lauracolumbus]

I have never heard of this being acceptable, but who knows? The reason for the SOF is so that the parents paying to enroll their dc know the beliefs of the person tutoring their dc, though, and I think this would potentially cause some problems for the Director.

 

We had several Catholic families on our campus as customers, but not as tutors. They knew that what would be presented in class and what they would be memorizing in class would not agree with their faith. They were willing to let it go as 'exposure' to other ideas for their dc, with plenty of discussion at home afterwards, and it all worked out fine.

 

See, that's just it. I've never been exposed to anything anti-Catholic or anti-Jewish, or anti-anything else. Another long-time tutor is a Copt, and all the parents know it and are comfortable with it. I've never seen a tutor bring up any issues re religion except for a basic belief in God. I guess it must vary considerably w/each campus. Or maybe they won't want me. I am going to discuss it w/my parish priest or director of religious ed, who is a friend of mine.

 

Laura

[iwka]

There are several areas that conflict with Catholic doctrine,

Laura

 

Why would you want to join CC if you know that what is the most important thing, i.e. Catholic faith, ic being compromised there?

 

I've quit TOG because of that very reason (plus one or two more).

[vester]

I am *very* Catholic. We are in CC, and have never had any problem at all. I dont see an issue with the Statement of Faith in any kind of a way. Concerning the Reformation, this is not part of the Statement of Faith, rather a Vertias Press card that they learn only the front - that there was, in fact, the Reformation with Luther, of course as Catholics we call it different, and we have taught our daughter that. I dont like the back of the card, and have brought that up with our director (who doesnt make the VP cards, of course) and it launched into a wonderful jumping off point for discussion.

 

There is nothing heretical about their Statement of Faith that I could see in any way, and although we are the only ones that make the sign of the Cross when the prayers occur, we have been met with only acceptance and love :) Its been nothing short of a wonderful experience. And CC as a whole is the best thing we have ever done.

 

Vester

[angela in ohio]

There is nothing heretical about their Statement of Faith that I could see in any way, and although we are the only ones that make the sign of the Cross when the prayers occur, we have been met with only acceptance and love :) Its been nothing short of a wonderful experience. And CC as a whole is the best thing we have ever done.

 

Vester

 

I think that this would be the problem for many Catholics, as Renee previously posted:

 

All Scripture is self-attesting and being Truth, requires our unreserved submission in all areas of life. The infallible Word of God, the sixty-six books of the Old and New Testaments, is a complete and unified witness to God's redemptive acts culminating in the incarnation of the Living Word, the Lord Jesus Christ. The Bible, uniquely and fully inspired by the Holy Spirit, is the supreme and final authority on all matters on which it speaks.

 

I always dislike SOFs that specifically name 66 books, because I know they are meant to exclude Catholics.

[VA6336]

I am Roman Catholic, and I am a CC director. One of my tutors is Roman Catholic. I was a Tutor last year. Directors and Tutors are required to support the Essentials of the Faith document, which I discussed with my State Manager before officially "agreeing" to it. In our conversations, I stated that while I do not wholly disagree with the statement, it is problematic in two ways.

 

First, the various statements are leading one down a path of heresy (if you are Catholic). The words themselves are not wrong, but because I know they were written by a Protestant, I know "where she's going" with it and I disagree with "where it goes." Second, it does not contain the whole truth. It is, as all Protestantism is, only a portion of the true faith. Scripture is not the only source of the faith. The Roman Catholic Church is a pre-Scriptural Church, it existed before the Bible did. We draw on more than just the Bible for truth.

 

Those objections stated, I can support the Essentials of the Faith statement. Although, I will tell you that my husband and I have been drafting a letter to Leigh Bortins, hoping to open a conversation into why she has chosen to create a unique statement like this instead of simply relying on the Creed to state the Christianity of Directors and Tutors. Her statement makes me uneasy, but it does not compromise my faith in any way.

 

As to objections to the memory work or the materials used in Classical Conversations' programs: the Challenge program could be problematic. The particular Director will make all the difference in whether I enroll my children in our local Challenge programs or not. The program itself is set up in such a way that the differences and issues between Catholics and Protestants will come up and need to be discussed; I look forward to giving my children a safe, healthy peer environment to fully explore their beliefs. The Director will need to be respectful of a variety of beliefs and know how to encourage the students to express themselves politely and effectively, without proselytizing or badgering. I can easily see how a Director not equipped for that would not be the right one for my children (or for anyone else's, but that's another matter).

 

None of the memory work in the Foundations program (in all three cycles) is contradictory to Catholic teaching. They are facts, nothing more. In a CC group the Tutors are not to teach our children what the importance of the split of the Church into Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox was, or how it affects us today; they are simply to present the fact in a way to help the students memorize the fact that it happened. As Roman Catholics, we will be emphasizing the importance of the decisions made by Rome as we move through Reformation history, but they will not be discussed, explained or embellished upon during our CC program time.

 

I cannot change the facts of history. I cannot change that the Reformation happened, or that there were a number of key persons involved. My children need to know who they were. We need to know why they did what they did. Therefore, I do not have a problem with CC's memory work, not even with the Veritas Press card's emphasis on Reformation personas. Neither at home nor at CC do we look at the backs of the cards. I will add in Church history where I think appropriate to be used at home.

 

To the objection of supporting Protestant publishers by patronizing them, I think it's rather petty. I cannot spend my life going around refusing to support any Protestant by patronizing their businesses-unless of course I desire to move out to the country and homestead! If you don't want to buy Protestant history materials, than you need to extend that to your electric company (whose CEO is likely a Baptist around here), your supermarket (actually owned by a Buddhist, but the local manager happens to be Episcopalian), and for heaven's sake, don't buy your gas there: the gas station owner is Muslim. Refusing to buy a set of history timeline cards because they're published by Protestants is picking and choosing your objections. Refusing to buy the VP timeline cards because you refute the facts on the cards, well, that's something to consider.

[cdrumm4448]

We just started CC and are Catholic (though not really practicing). I had no religious education as a child (I went to public school, did not attend CCD, and made my communion by myself at church with our priest). I attended a Catholic high school, but didn't really digest anything religious there. So, at the risk of sounding like a total idiot, could someone please explain to me in a "Religion For Dummies" kind of way why Catholics could have a problem with CC?

[lamamaloca]

Though just to keep things fair and in perspective, one reason I could never use Seton is the uber-Catholic and anti-Protestant (sometimes beyond bias to the point of falsehood) view that affects nearly every part of their curriculum I've ever seen.

 

I agree with this and won't use their stuff, and I'm Catholic!

[lamamaloca]

I am *very* Catholic. We are in CC, and have never had any problem at all. I dont see an issue with the Statement of Faith in any kind of a way.

 

You don't have a problem with what it says about Scripture and the nature of the Church? I don't see how I could interpret those statements in a way compatible with Catholic doctrine.

[farmwife]

 

First, the various statements are leading one down a path of heresy (if you are Catholic). The words themselves are not wrong, but because I know they were written by a Protestant, I know "where she's going" with it and I disagree with "where it goes." Second, it does not contain the whole truth. It is, as all Protestantism is, only a portion of the true faith. Scripture is not the only source of the faith. The Roman Catholic Church is a pre-Scriptural Church, it existed before the Bible did. We draw on more than just the Bible for truth.

 

 

 

Being raised in a "very Catholic" family and attending catholic school, I never really figured out where the catholic church actually got it's 'truth'.

 

When I talk to our Catholic friends and neighbors, they really don't know what they believe or why. So I was wondering what exactly the church teaches regarding faith and truth?

 

Would you mind expounding on your statements here?

[lamamaloca]

Being raised in a "very Catholic" family and attending catholic school, I never really figured out where the catholic church actually got it's 'truth'.

 

When I talk to our Catholic friends and neighbors, they really don't know what they believe or why. So I was wondering what exactly the church teaches regarding faith and truth?

 

Would you mind expounding on your statements here?

 

That's a broad question. Catholics believe that Christ chose his Apostles to spread the Gospel, and that he promised that his Holy Spirit would lead them into all Truth. The Apostles chose successors and ordained them by the laying on of hands. The Holy Spirit continued to lead those successors through the centuries as they passed on what they had been taught. Eventually some of this was written down as Scripture, other Truths were passed on primarily through liturgy and devotion, the practice of the Church, and are referred to as Tradition. We believe that the whole of revelation is contained in Scripture and Tradition together, and that the Holy Spirit continues to lead the Church through the successors to the Apostles, the bishops.

 

Is that what you were asking?

[VA6336]

 

Would you mind expounding on your statements here?

 

Farmwife, I highly recommend finding a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Everything you ever needed to know about where the faith comes from and what, exactly, it is you can find in that book. Additionally, it will reference something called the Compendium, which will have the texts/documents quoted throughout the Catechism in full. There is rarely a short and complete answer to any question about faith, religion or Roman Catholicism. :glare:

 

Lamamaloca said it well, we draw upon Scripture, Tradition, the Magesterium and the Holy Spirit for the fullness of the truth.

[Crimson Wife]

To the objection of supporting Protestant publishers by patronizing them, I think it's rather petty. I cannot spend my life going around refusing to support any Protestant by patronizing their businesses-unless of course I desire to move out to the country and homestead! If you don't want to buy Protestant history materials, than you need to extend that to your electric company (whose CEO is likely a Baptist around here), your supermarket (actually owned by a Buddhist, but the local manager happens to be Episcopalian), and for heaven's sake, don't buy your gas there: the gas station owner is Muslim. Refusing to buy a set of history timeline cards because they're published by Protestants is picking and choosing your objections.

 

The difference is that the electric company, the gas station, and the supermarket are not profiting by publishing anti-Catholic materials.

[farmwife]

Farmwife, I highly recommend finding a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Everything you ever needed to know about where the faith comes from and what, exactly, it is you can find in that book. Additionally, it will reference something called the Compendium, which will have the texts/documents quoted throughout the Catechism in full. There is rarely a short and complete answer to any question about faith, religion or Roman Catholicism. :glare:

 

Lamamaloca said it well, we draw upon Scripture, Tradition, the Magesterium and the Holy Spirit for the fullness of the truth.

 

I do own a Catechism, it's a tad bit over my head to be frank. I guess where I struggle in my understanding specifically is the faith matter. I have these discussions with my mother who is "very catholic". (I quote it only because I realize that it is a judgement of the amount of catholicism I witness in her life). We can talk the same talk to a point. Then we come to odds when we speak specifically about our faith. She puts a lot of her faith into the church. Where I specifically put my faith in God, and ultimately Jesus Christ. She claims to be a follower of Christ, yet puts a lot of faith in the church and the priest himself. When I ask her specifically about her faith she can't tell me where exactly her faith lies. Is it in the church or in a Savior? She can't answer that because she just doesn't know.

 

That's where I get lost and confused. :confused: I want to 'get' my mother's faith and I want to come to a place of understanding. Probably not agreement, but understanding.

[lamamaloca]

Where I specifically put my faith in God, and ultimately Jesus Christ. She claims to be a follower of Christ, yet puts a lot of faith in the church and the priest himself. When I ask her specifically about her faith she can't tell me where exactly her faith lies. Is it in the church or in a Savior? She can't answer that because she just doesn't know.

 

Yes, we put our Faith foremost into Christ, but we believe that He established the Church as the means of bringing the world into communion with him, via preaching of the Gospel and the sacraments, and that He has promised that the Holy Spirit will lead the Church into all Truth, and that he promised Peter and the other Apostles that what they bind on earth will be bound in Heaven, and we believe this promise continues to their successors the bishops, then yes we put a great deal of faith in the Church, because of our faith in Christ. A Catholic believes strongly that the Church, in a very real way, is the Body of Christ, and that faith in the Head of the Body (Christ) is inseparable from faith in the rest of the Body (the Church). So your mother sounds confused because you are approaching the issue from a way that makes absolutely no sense to a Catholic. Faith in Christ means having faith in His Church, and having faith in His Church means that one has faith in Christ, who is the Founder and Head of the Church. From the Catechism:

 

777 The word "Church" means "convocation." It designates the assembly of those whom God's Word "convokes," i.e., gathers together to form the People of God, and who themselves, nourished with the Body of Christ, become the Body of Christ.

778 The Church is both the means and the goal of God's plan: prefigured in creation, prepared for in the Old Covenant, founded by the words and actions of Jesus Christ, fulfilled by his redeeming cross and his Resurrection, the Church has been manifested as the mystery of salvation by the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. She will be perfected in the glory of heaven as the assembly of all the redeemed of the earth (cf. Rev 14:4).

779 The Church is both visible and spiritual, a hierarchical society and the Mystical Body of Christ. She is one, yet formed of two components, human and divine. That is her mystery, which only faith can accept.

780 The Church in this world is the sacrament of salvation, the sign and the instrument of the communion of God and men.

[farmwife]

Yes, we put our Faith foremost into Christ, but we believe that He established the Church as the means of bringing the world into communion with him, via preaching of the Gospel and the sacraments, and that He has promised that the Holy Spirit will lead the Church into all Truth, and that he promised Peter and the other Apostles that what they bind on earth will be bound in Heaven, and we believe this promise continues to their successors the bishops, then yes we put a great deal of faith in the Church, because of our faith in Christ. A Catholic believes strongly that the Church, in a very real way, is the Body of Christ, and that faith in the Head of the Body (Christ) is inseparable from faith in the rest of the Body (the Church). So your mother sounds confused because you are approaching the issue from a way that makes absolutely no sense to a Catholic. Faith in Christ means having faith in His Church, and having faith in His Church means that one has faith in Christ, who is the Founder and Head of the Church. From the Catechism:

 

Thank you Becky! :001_smile: I really didn't want to have a theological debate, just wanted some answers, which you graciously provided me. Thank you!

[VA6336]

The difference is that the electric company, the gas station, and the supermarket are not profiting by publishing anti-Catholic materials.

 

Good point, Crimson Wife. I think this also applies to some earlier posters who said they would not support Seton (a Catholic homeschool publisher) whose materials are sometimes blatantly anti-Protestant. There are many entities in our country that are anti-Christian, anti-religion, anti-family, etc and sometimes it is very difficult to sort it out. Many of them are government bodies, particularly the public schools. How do I not support the public schools? Should I refuse to own property, therefore not paying taxes used to pay for the school system?

 

I want to use the most appropriate materials for my children and on the surface, I do love the VP cards (the fronts, anyway). I have not seen another history timeline tool such as VP's that I could use in the way I have chosen to that is not anti-Catholic. I'm certainly not minimizing our faith in our schooling and am not attempting secularization of history (I think it's impossible anyway). Can anyone suggest another set of cards or timeline tool similar to VP's that might work the way I want them to? Until I find one (that I don't have to make myself), I will continue to use the best tool I am aware of, which in this case, are the VP timeline cards.

[lamamaloca]

Can anyone suggest another set of cards or timeline tool similar to VP's that might work the way I want them to?

 

What about these? I don't know for sure what they're like.

http://www.stgeorgebooks.com/product.cfm/product/1497/OPTION//Volume-One-Ancient-History-Timeline-Cards/

 

http://www.stgeorgebooks.com/product.cfm/product/2599/OPTION//Volume-Two-Timeline-Cards-63-B.C.---1066-A.D./

[VA6336]

Funny you should suggest those, Lamamaloca. We're using Connecting With History as our history spine/guide. The trouble, mainly, is that they only go up to 1066 AD.

[lamamaloca]

Yep, I noticed that. Hopefully the whole series will be completed soon. I'm considering CWH for next year. How do you like it?

[Annette Murphy]

I am a CC Challenge I director. I am also a Catholic in love with my faith. When I signed the Statement of Faith five years ago, I did so honestly and without contradiction. I simply stated in writing that though I could not personally affirm that which is in conflict Catholic teaching, I would never violate the confidence of the parents (teachers) by confusing their students with challenges to the faith being imparted to them via the family God has placed them in. Many of the moms have asked me about my Catholic faith. They have been so kind and supportive. Some have come to Latin Mass to hear a ‘dead language’ utilized. A large group of Challenge students and their parents participated in a Compline service where I was asked many wonderful questions and was able to share many of the most beautiful and profound structures of Catholic Faith. I can imagine that not every community would be as kind or generous as this one. Perhaps God has chosen to fill our family’s needs in a peculiar way. So, I have a fantastic community that supports rearing children with virtue and educating them classically. It’s a win win.

[HomeAgain]

11 minutes ago, Annette Murphy said:

I am a CC Challenge I director. I am also a Catholic in love with my faith. When I signed the Statement of Faith five years ago, I did so honestly and without contradiction. I simply stated in writing that though I could not personally affirm that which is in conflict Catholic teaching, I would never violate the confidence of the parents (teachers) by confusing their students with challenges to the faith being imparted to them via the family God has placed them in. Many of the moms have asked me about my Catholic faith. They have been so kind and supportive. Some have come to Latin Mass to hear a ‘dead language’ utilized. A large group of Challenge students and their parents participated in a Compline service where I was asked many wonderful questions and was able to share many of the most beautiful and profound structures of Catholic Faith. I can imagine that not every community would be as kind or generous as this one. Perhaps God has chosen to fill our family’s needs in a peculiar way. So, I have a fantastic community that supports rearing children with virtue and educating them classically. It’s a win win.

11 years later is a long time to drag up a post for the sole purpose of talking up an anti-Christian company that operates for-profit businesses out of non-profit churches with requiring volunteers for their for-profit company,, and putting churches in sticky tax situations, all the while stealing money from the general public along the way (just how much did CC get in pandemic business loans??) and threatening anyone who is concerned.

You may want to start a new post if this isn't trolling.

[Annette Murphy]

You know, I never looked at the date! And, I’m not even sure how I got here, but I’m leaving now!