sports to teach self-discipline

[EthiopianFood]

ETA: Thank you everyone for your ideas! It really helps me to have outside perspective, especially since I don't have much experience with this age group. :D I have decided I will tell her why I think it is important for her to continue. I will ask her if she would be willing to just go once a week, so she won't lose the skills she has worked so hard to gain these past several months. If she still wants to quit, I will let her, and just focus on the fun crafts I have planned for her this summer! :)

 

 

But they don't want to go. :glare: They are good at it; it is NOT a matter of something else being a better fit. They just don't want to have to stick with anything. They are being taught to give up if something is hard, so no, they won't learn this lesson another way at home. You have already tried making them go another session, and when it was over, they hated it more. They tried taking a year off in the past, and while they did choose to do it again, no lesson was learned about sticking with anything (obviously)! It is two nights a week, two hours each time, with a third night during meet time for one month, once or twice a year. You must decide whether to sign said child up for summer session. You have only continued thus far in the hope that they will learn to be proud of hard work, and to stick with things for the long haul. This child (girl) will be 10 next month. What do you do?

 

1. Make child do both days a week for summer. It is only six weeks, and there are camps she wants to do that will take as much time, only crammed into one week.

2. Let child do one day a week, as a compromise, and hope she has a better attitude because of the break. This is not at all guaranteed, though.

3. Let child take a break for the summer, and start up again in the fall. Hope the break helps her enjoy it again, although the attitude will likely remain in the fall.

4. Let the child quit completely, if that is what they want. If they hate lessons, they won't learn a darn thing from them anyway, including character building.

 

I'm not sure why I wrote it that way, but I just went with it. :lol:

 

ETA: I know there are a lot of questions or conditions that someone could have on all of this, but how would you respond if you accepted this information at face value?

Edited May 7, 2010 by RaeAnne

[OrganicAnn]

You can learn self discipline from a lot of things (sports, music, hobbies). You can get exercise in a lot of ways. You can learn team work in a lot of ways. It doesn't have to be sports.

 

It isn't self discipline if mom makes you do it. It is mom discipline. I would look for other ways to learn self discipline that doesn't cost money and involve whinning, but may involve physical effort. But that is just me.

[EthiopianFood]

You can learn self discipline from a lot of things (sports, music, hobbies). You can get exercise in a lot of ways. You can learn team work in a lot of ways. It doesn't have to be sports.

 

It isn't self discipline if mom makes you do it. It is mom discipline. I would look for other ways to learn self discipline that doesn't cost money and involve whinning, but may involve physical effort. But that is just me.

 

This is a good point, about "mom discipline." I mentioned in my post that she isn't interested in sticking with ANYTHING. She is being taught that it doesn't matter if you stick with things, to just quit if you don't like it anymore. These are the values of everyone around her. That is what makes it more complicated. Would your answer be the same, taking these things into consideration? It is up to me to decide.

 

As a side question, does anyone see value in even sticking with things short-term? Maybe it's better than nothing?

[OrganicAnn]

I think signing a kid up for a sport and hope it teaches that self-discipline when they've never had any self-discipline before will mean the odds of achieving your goal is going to be slim.

 

If self-discipline is the real issue you are wanting to focus on, then you need to start small and build up. Does she has chores? Does she complete them without nagging? You might start something simple like a chore a day. No nagging. If she accomplishes it, then positive reinforcement. If she does not complete it, then it gets added to the next day. After two days, then some additional punishment. The key is she has to get up and do the task herself without any nagging or reminding. That is the beginning of self discipline.

 

If it is a musical instrument, she has to go and practice every day without nagging. You could use study, chores, prayer, exercise anything really to teach self-discipline. Age makes a difference how much/little you can expect. Of course you will have to have the self discipline to implement it. I find most adults don't have very good self discipline. Be a role model. It is a good idea to look around and see good examples and bad examples in her life and try to emphasize the good.

[IsabelC]

The only time I'd make my kids attend anything would be if they chose to make the commitment but then lost interest. Eg 6yo and 4yo do gymnastics, and the club charges for a term at a time. I have told the kids that they will be doing the number of weeks we have paid for, then if they don't like it for whatever reason they don't have to continue next term. Likewise, if they ever get into team sports and then get sick of training, I would ask them to keep it up until the end of the season so as not to let the other children down, unless there were a very serious reason (eg medical issue) to quit early. But I don't think any one sporting activity is important enough to justify signing them up when they don't want to do it.

Edited May 6, 2010 by Hotdrink

[Rosie_0801]

I think if you want to teach her she has to stick at something, you need to find something she really does have to stick at. Sending her to do sport when you really can drop out of sport if you want to probably won't teach her the lesson you are trying to teach. I think it is difficult because there really aren't that many non-negotiable things in life. Dabbling in various hobbies isn't bad. Some people stick at one thing, some like to dabble. It's all valuable experience and all helps a person know they can actually do stuff; after all they've tried it.

 

Perhaps talk to her about the issue and have her think of a suitable project for "dedication studies." Here's an idea: http://thetoysociety.blogspot.com/ Small and achievable.

 

Rosie

Edited May 6, 2010 by Rosie_0801

[EthiopianFood]

I think signing a kid up for a sport and hope it teaches that self-discipline when they've never had any self-discipline before will mean the odds of achieving your goal is going to be slim.

 

If self-discipline is the real issue you are wanting to focus on, then you need to start small and build up. Does she has chores? Does she complete them without nagging? You might start something simple like a chore a day. No nagging. If she accomplishes it, then positive reinforcement. If she does not complete it, then it gets added to the next day. After two days, then some additional punishment. The key is she has to get up and do the task herself without any nagging or reminding. That is the beginning of self discipline.

 

If it is a musical instrument, she has to go and practice every day without nagging. You could use study, chores, prayer, exercise anything really to teach self-discipline. Age makes a difference how much/little you can expect. Of course you will have to have the self discipline to implement it. I find most adults don't have very good self discipline. Be a role model. It is a good idea to look around and see good examples and bad examples in her life and try to emphasize the good.

 

I'm not sure if you missed this part, but she doesn't live with me. The adults she lives with WON'T implement anything. There is only so much I can do. This is something I CAN make her do, not the day-to-day stuff, unfortunately. I will see her almost daily during the summer to work on academics, but that will be a (necessary) headache, too.

 

Hmmm, maybe I could ask her to pick a project that we can complete over the summer. I wanted to do crafts and stuff anyway, since she likes those things. I can guarantee you that there won't be anything she truly cares to complete, and that, even if she has a little excitement at the beginning, she will lose interest quickly. I don't know, I guess I'm just trying to swim against the tide. Maybe it's just time for me to reevaluate, and to lower my standards again....

[Rosie_0801]

It could be that you're not the right person to teach that lesson. Sometimes caring isn't enough. Anyway, you could try the toy society since you wanted to do crafts anyway. It only requires a small project, you can oblige her to do a good job and you can both watch the blog to see when someone finds it. That should be good motivation for her.

 

Rosie

[Peela]

I was just reading a story in the book 7 Habits for Highly Effective People, during my afternoon rest time. The author and his wife had a son who was a "loser". Struggled at everything, poor at sports, low self worth developing because not good at academics...lots of issues. Parents step in, very concerned to boost up this child. They did all the normal things, gave him lots of praise, stood on the sidelines cheering him, encouragement, all that stuff. No help. Kid still floundering, low self worth.

 

The author was reading all the how- to -succeed --in life literature from the last 200 years (for his job) and to cut a long story short, decided to step back and just believe in his child and watch him unfold in his own way, in his own time. He and his wife withdrew their emotional investment in their son turning out a certain way, and just accepted him and trusted him. They stepped back and stopped trying so hard. And the son changed and became an A student etc

The story touched me because I realised how hard it is as a parent to "let go" of the outcome of how our kids turn out. It's also hard not to care about what others think about our children, since in our society we think they reflect us.

 

It sounds like you are quite emotional and very invested in this young woman and a bit of stepping back and perspective, and letting go of so much control, even though it looks like that woudl make it worse, might make it better. It might at least make you feel better, and from there act from a more accepting place, and keep a healthy connection with the child. A 10yo child has a lot of time yet for growing and working herself out, but going against her will turn her against you, and you wont both be on the same team anymore.

[Pamela H in Texas]

First, Peela, thank you SOOOOOOOOO much for sharing that! Sometimes things come at the perfect time!

 

Second, RaeAnne, I have a couple thoughts on this:

 

1) at 9, I do think things are a bit different than a teenager. We have to scaffold at first, giving them what we want them to learn. So though it's aunt-discipline, not self-discipline, that can still be a good thing. It can start good habits and thinking patterns in time, probably a LOT of time. I assume this is what you've been thinking in this case.

 

2) People are NOT just what they learn from those they live with. She is not doomed if she is allowed to quit everything for the next 10 years as well. She also learns from what she sees on tv, what she sees YOU do, what she sees every other family member do, what she gets from teachers, what she gets from community members. She needs to be exposed to a wide range of people and circumstances to know that hers isn't the only way there is. She'll be inspired (again, probably in time), to do great things (whether it's to parent differently, play an instrument, study hard, help people in 3rd world countries).

 

I don't know exactly what I'd choose in this situation. My first guess is that I'd love her and accept her regardless, widen out her view more broadly, and hope she chooses to accept responsibility in time. I don't really think that you forcing her with this sport is likely to change more than those thing will. And it may really hurt things as you can't have *that* relationship which can help her become inspired for herself.

[In The Great White North]

I would find a different sport or a different team, with a different schedule? Two hours a night is a long time for someone who's not even 10, even if it's two days a week. Those same 4 hours, spread over four days, would work a lot better. Imagine if you wanted her to do math or spelling for two hours at a time. How would that go over?

 

It's no wonder child doesn't like it. Twice a week is not enough to build either strength or proficiency. Child will not get better at it, ever. Any improvements she makes are the result of age; being bigger and more coordinated. There is no joy of achieving her goals, no successes, no feeling of "I worked hard at this and now I can do it."

 

I am a swim coach on a year-round team and I know that a lot of teams have (unreasonable) pool time constraints, but there's no way I would recommend two hours a day for a 9 year old, or twice a week for anyone past the swim lesson stage.

[Dmmetler]

I don't make my DD, at 5, sign up for activities she doesn't want to do (and agreed to let her not do a group music class this summer so she could play T-ball), but once she starts, she has to finish out the season/semester/whatever the natural period is. So far, she hasn't yet found a sport that "clicks" with her, but she's continuing to try (t-ball right now, Swim lessons later this summer).

[PiCO]

I can't imagine coaching a child 4 hours/week who didn't want to be there. I also would not want my child to be in a sports practice with someone who didn't want to be there. I'm surprised the coach has not asked her to leave.

[Julie in CA]

Maybe it's just time for me to reevaluate, and to lower my standards again....

Yikes! Does the kid know you feel this way about them? :001_huh:

Changing the standard does not at all mean the same thing as lowering the standard. I think of extra-curriculars as having several purposes, self-control & self-discipline being only one of the purposes, exercise being another, and finding a kid's talents and interests another. Apathy is sometimes a personality thing, imo, but sometimes it also means that we haven't done a very good job of helping a kid find the right thing *for them.* I'd definitely keep looking for the thing that provides the "spark" for that particular kid. If it's crafts rather than sports, so be it, but I might suggest trying many different things until they find the right fit.

[EthiopianFood]

Yikes! Does the kid know you feel this way about them? :001_huh:

 

This is more than a little harsh. ;) I didn't say anything about how I feel about my niece. I'm sorry it came across that way.

 

Changing the standard does not at all mean the same thing as lowering the standard. I think of extra-curriculars as having several purposes, self-control & self-discipline being only one of the purposes, exercise being another, and finding a kid's talents and interests another. Apathy is sometimes a personality thing, imo, but sometimes it also means that we haven't done a very good job of helping a kid find the right thing *for them.* I'd definitely keep looking for the thing that provides the "spark" for that particular kid. If it's crafts rather than sports, so be it, but I might suggest trying many different things until they find the right fit.

 

She has done a wide variety of activities. I mentioned in a previous post that it doesn't matter what she is doing; she doesn't want to put effort into it. She is very gifted at gymnastics, and enjoys it for a time. Then, she wants to quit. She also enjoys crafts, but becomes bored if I encourage her to stay with a craft of her choosing until it is actually completed. There are many things she enjoys, none of which motivate her to work hard. That was the whole point of this thread. If it was just a matter of trying something else, there would be no dilemma.

[EthiopianFood]

I can't imagine coaching a child 4 hours/week who didn't want to be there. I also would not want my child to be in a sports practice with someone who didn't want to be there. I'm surprised the coach has not asked her to leave.

 

She shows this attitude outside of class, actually. When she tried gymnastics years ago, she WAS very distracted in class, and as you said, it just wasn't worth it. This time, it's just not about the sport. Who cares if she wants to do gymnastics, really? It's just that there isn't something else that will work better to possibly help her learn discipline and sticking with something. She is actually very, very good.

[EthiopianFood]

It sounds like you are quite emotional and very invested in this young woman and a bit of stepping back and perspective, and letting go of so much control, even though it looks like that woudl make it worse, might make it better. It might at least make you feel better, and from there act from a more accepting place, and keep a healthy connection with the child. A 10yo child has a lot of time yet for growing and working herself out, but going against her will turn her against you, and you wont both be on the same team anymore.

 

I appreciate you saying this. I have decided that I this is actually where I will put my focus. She still wants to spend time with me! She has fun at our house! She still wants to go to church with us! These are all so much more important because, as you said, the relationship is what will help her most in the long-run. It would be better if I could provide structure in other ways, but if it's not happening, it's not happening.

 

 

First, Peela, thank you SOOOOOOOOO much for sharing that! Sometimes things come at the perfect time!

 

Second, RaeAnne, I have a couple thoughts on this:

 

1) at 9, I do think things are a bit different than a teenager. We have to scaffold at first, giving them what we want them to learn. So though it's aunt-discipline, not self-discipline, that can still be a good thing. It can start good habits and thinking patterns in time, probably a LOT of time. I assume this is what you've been thinking in this case.

 

2) People are NOT just what they learn from those they live with. She is not doomed if she is allowed to quit everything for the next 10 years as well. She also learns from what she sees on tv, what she sees YOU do, what she sees every other family member do, what she gets from teachers, what she gets from community members. She needs to be exposed to a wide range of people and circumstances to know that hers isn't the only way there is. She'll be inspired (again, probably in time), to do great things (whether it's to parent differently, play an instrument, study hard, help people in 3rd world countries).

 

I don't know exactly what I'd choose in this situation. My first guess is that I'd love her and accept her regardless, widen out her view more broadly, and hope she chooses to accept responsibility in time. I don't really think that you forcing her with this sport is likely to change more than those thing will. And it may really hurt things as you can't have *that* relationship which can help her become inspired for herself.

 

This is all excellent. Thank you. As I mentioned above, I realized your last sentiment today, that I need to keep our relationship positive, as it always has been. Thank you for your honesty, and for not giving pat answers. I really feel like you understand my dilemma.

 

Update is Post 1. Thank you everyone for your help! It has really, um, helped! :)

Edited May 7, 2010 by RaeAnne

[AnitaMcC]

The only time I'd make my kids attend anything would be if they chose to make the commitment but then lost interest. Eg 6yo and 4yo do gymnastics, and the club charges for a term at a time. I have told the kids that they will be doing the number of weeks we have paid for, then if they don't like it for whatever reason they don't have to continue next term. Likewise, if they ever get into team sports and then get sick of training, I would ask them to keep it up until the end of the season so as not to let the other children down, unless there were a very serious reason (eg medical issue) to quit early. But I don't think any one sporting activity is important enough to justify signing them up when they don't want to do it.

 

Same here. If my kids say they want to do something, I make them think about it first... then if they still want to do it.. I sign them up with the understanding that they are making a commitment and have to stick with it through the season/contract.

 

But at the same time, they have to do something!!!! Rule of thumb is that they have to do at least two outside-the-home activities separate from education. Otherwise my boys would do nothing but stay home and drive me insane wanting to play video games/watch TV/run around and drive each other crazy due to boredom.

 

Ds#1 does Kung Fu (twice a week), bowling league (once a week with a month or so off between winter and summer leagues), Civil Air Patrol once a week plus other activities he does with CAP a few times a month.

 

DD does Kung Fu (5 nights a week for 4 hrs a night plus tournamens), music lessons once a week.

 

Ds#2 does Kung Fu (2-3 times a week), bowling league (once a week like Ds#1) and was in cubscouts and did the cross-over to boyscouts but he doesn't want to go to boyscouts. During school year he was doing boy sports club at school for an hour every other week.

 

Ds#3 does Kung Fu (2-3 times a week), bowling league (once a week like Ds#1), cubscouts (2-3 times a month). During school year he does Einstein club after school once a week.

 

If the kids want to do something else they can give it a try and we go from there. One of the problems we have is in the area we live... organized sports for under 7th grade is expensive (at least $300 a season per sport/per child). And the only 7th grade and up sports available is through the schools. It is cheaper for us to have all four kids doing Kung Fu year round (and Dh does it too)!!!!! Plus the kids pretty much go to Kung Fu at the same time 2-3 nights a week and the Kung Fu school is only 1.5 miles from the house. Just very convenient. Dd is the only one who goes more (she competes and teaches Kung Fu classes). We also have membeship at YMCA.

 

Ds#2 may join a school sport team in 6th grade (he isn't homeschooled... yet). He wants to do football but that isn't available until high school. But he may try track or wrestling. 6th graders are allowed to do cross country track in fall, wrestling in winter, track and field in spring. No other sport at school is available until 7th grade (then it is pretty much only basketball left for boys).

 

Summer the kids can sign up for Summer Sports Camps through the high schools. That is what we do... the kids take a few sports camps each summer. They have fun when in camp and they often want to do it again the next summer... but so far none of the kids really want to stick with any of the competitive team sports after camp is over.

[Hedgehogs4]

I agree with Rosie...a child is not allowed to waste my money, so if we make the commitment for a certain amount of time, then they must complete that term. Otherwise, I consider that kids change their minds about 10 times an hour and truly, they may not be as enamored with something after they have tried it.

 

Self-discipline does not come from sports. Culturally, we have begun to use sports to fill in all the gaps that we leave, suggesting that teamwork, exercise and physical training, self-discipline, attitude is best taught on the field. I completely disagree. Sports are a luxury, not a necessity.

[secular_mom]

Sounds like this girl just hasn't found anything that is worth the effort to her, to continue doing. Sometimes things sound fun at first, and ARE fun at first, but then when you realize how much work you'd have to put into doing it to do it well, you just lose interest. She's so young, she really doesn't need to be committed to any activity at this age. What does she do on her own? My oldest swaps back and forth with her interests. Sometimes she'll do nothing but read books (in her spare time) for days/weeks and then suddenly she's drawing for days/weeks instead. Sometimes she's painting, sometimes she's writing stories, sometimes she's creating graphics and sometimes she's taking photographs. There's no one thing that she does every single week throughout the year.

When a person is no longer interested in an activity, sometimes that means that they've already gotten what they will get out of it. Sometimes it means that they need a break, and they'll come back to it later.

Sometimes it means the activity was just not a good fit in the first place.