Sonlight and grade level?

[Just Another Jen]

Yet another sonlight question:

I understand about matching the reading

level to your student. But, why wouldn't

I do core k with my k student? Almost

all the posts on the sl board push k

students to the pk 4/5 core.

[ktog29]

I'm sure you'll get lots of different (and more informed) answers...but for us, the content of the read-alouds was a bit mature for my oldest ds when he was in Kindergarten. He had been listening to chapter books for ages so it wasn't he length of the books but rather, the mature themes in some of them (homelessness in Family Under the Bridge, WW2/Nazis in Twenty and Ten, etc.). That said, I just started core K with my second ds who just tuned 6 and is finishing kindergarten. He's a little less sensitive and we're enjoying it so far.

 

HTH

[Just Another Jen]

Thanks. I guess I just have to realize that

the core numbers do not equal grade levels.

[Dinsfamily]

Thanks. I guess I just have to realize that

the core numbers do not equal grade levels.

 

That was really hard for me at first too. I was trying to decide between Core K and P4/5 for my K'er last year and wanted to use Core K. Finally, I checked out a bunch of Core K books from the library and read them myself. Only then did I understand what the SL ladies were talking about with regards to maturity. As a K'er could have done Core K fine, but he's getting a lot more out of it this year as a 1st grader. I am so glad I listened and chose P4/5 for his K year. It wasn't overly challenging for him, but the books are really good and it gave us a lot of time to focus on the 3Rs. The p4/5 science books will probably remain some of his favorite books for a long time.

[m4given]

Yet another sonlight question:

I understand about matching the reading

level to your student. But, why wouldn't

I do core k with my k student? Almost

all the posts on the sl board push k

students to the pk 4/5 core.

 

I agree with the previous poster. Of course, you know your children best and where they are with listening skills, reading skills and sensitivity to content of the books. As a general rule, I think of Core K comparable to the 1st grade education that my dd received in public school, but much richer in content.

 

Some people do very well to have their child(ren) do Core k with a 5yr old or 6 year old, but in our household it worked best to do Core K at 7 - 8 years old (First Grade) with my oldest. The reason for us has to do with the content also. I skipped a couple books until later for my dd who is sensitive in nature.

 

The maturity of content also influences me in choosing later Cores (History/Geography/Literature portion). So for us it works best to have my kids do the Core number that is one number less than their Grade. That is, Core K = Grade 1, Core 1 = Grade 2 and so on. SL lists their Cores for a range of ages and we fall right in the upper range for the age per our choice.

 

You may, if you haven't already, check out some of the books from the library - the Read-Alouds (that go with the Core) as well as the Readers (that go with the Language Arts level of your choice). Sometimes I take "peeks" of books at amazon.com or at christianbooks.com.

[m4given]

Thanks. I guess I just have to realize that

the core numbers do not equal grade levels.

 

This is true.

[melmichigan]

The cores used to be equal to grade levels in the past and that seems to be where some confusion stems from. It really depends on your individual child. We use cores as grade levels or even above, but that is my family, things may be different for yours. The best advice is to take the catalog to the library and check out a few of the books and see what level would work best. The majority seems to be swinging back again on this one from a lot of what I have read on the SL boards lately. Using the core as grade level was a very small minority last year when I started on the boards and is becoming more popular again it seems.

[meet me in paris]

There are some very heavy-handed posters on the SL boards that discourage *anyone* from using cores at grade level. I listened to their advice, and it ended up not being a good fit for us (I put my 8yo in Core 1 and she was bored with it).

 

That said, once you get to Core 3, you can't choose your level of LA anymore, and Core 3 has lots of independent reading. I did Core 3/LA3 with my 5th grader and it was a great fit. So if you use SL LA, it's a good rule of thumb to go by how well they write rather than how well they read. If you're using your own LA and your kids are great readers, then you'd be fine to use Core # as Grade #.

 

People generally feel that their kids get more out of the books and activities if they use them 1 year behind grade level, but they are still appropriate for same grade as well.

[Lovedtodeath]

Hi, can I jump in here and ask how well the grade level and age apply to the science programs?

 

 

[Veritaserum]

Hi, can I jump in here and ask how well the grade level and age apply to the science programs?

 

 

 

 

We've only used Science K and my older two were 5 and 7. It was good for both of them....

 

When we used Core K, the content of the read alouds didn't disturb my Ker (or her PreK sister listening in), but I've come to realize that my kids must not be as sensitive as others....

[StephanieZ]

Well, I haven't used the K core. The youngest core level I've used is 1. . . (and have used 1-6). . .

 

My older kids started SL in Core 3 when they were in 2nd & 4th grades. Worked great for both of them, as have the subsequent cores (4, 5, & 6.)

 

Since my older two do the cores together, my middle kid (5th gr this year) has always been one core "ahead" (2nd grade did core 3, etc) and my oldest (7th this year) has always been one core "behind" (4th gr did Core 3, etc.) I'd say that the perfect level for them would have been spot on grade=core and I've made small adjustments for each of them to make the middleoftheroad core work for both at the same time.

 

I.e., sometimes I've had to do a reader as a read aloud for my younger kid. . . and I definitely add additional reading material for my oldest (and she does some of the read alouds as readers and could easily do ALL of them that way if I weren't reading them out loud anyway for my younger.)

 

So, with my youngest, 1st gr this year, she's done Core 1 this year in 1st grade. I think this is just right for her. It's been really easy. She actually grabs some of the read alouds and will read them to herself if she feels like it. She is doing the most advanced option for readers this year (2 Int) and that has been appropriate but not hard. She could do "harder" but I don't feel the need for that. Nonetheless, the core is easy and we zip through the materials.

 

I wouldn't want her doing a younger core. . .

 

So, IMHO, I would NOT want to put the kid in a younger core for MY kids.

 

(FWIW, they are strong readers and are accustomed to being read advanced materials from a young age. . . They listen to an hour or more of reading each night by my dh from very young age. . . Things like Narnia Chronicles, LOTR, etc. . . )

 

So, I think that if your kids enjoy being read aloud to (not just picture books) and are strong readers, then I can't see why you'd need/want to have them "behind" in cores. If they have a short attention span and/or don't like read-alouds and/or aren't strong readers yet, then, frankly, I''d be inclined to NOT do a SL core for K and just stick to focusing on reading skills and just read aloud from whatever nice picture books, etc, you want and add in chapter books this year -- picking ones you or dh wants to read to them. . . and build that interest/pleasure this year w/o the formal core. . .

 

The other drawback in being "behind" in cores is that many folks don't choose to continue w/ SL in high school . . . so, if you want to get through the SL elementary cores prior to high school, you need to consider the timing. If staying on grade level = core, you can get through cores 6 & 7 (world history) and core 100 (am hist) by grade 8, being nicely ready for starting some OTHER high school rotation/cycle. . . That seems optimum to me. . .

 

HTH,

Stephanie

[MissKNG]

Hi, can I jump in here and ask how well the grade level and age apply to the science programs?

 

 

 

 

Science definitely goes along with the "it depends on the child" bandwagon imo.

 

Because of my big girl's age, the SL Curriculum Adviser discouraged me from even buying the P4/5 Science. So what did I do?? I went ahead and bought Science K - because I wanted everything included like supplies!!

Best decision I ever made!

 

My big girl is absolutely thriving and loving this program. She is making connections from lessons to real life and making connections between different lessons. Even in the one instance I thought something went over her head - she had the blank stare look when we were going through how fossils were made - a day or two later, she was stacking pillows on top of a stuffed animal. When I asked what she was doing, she told me the animal died and the pillows were the layers and it was going to become a fossil. I was very "wowed"! LOL!

 

Granted we are only in Week 6 (I bought it last month), it worked out very well starting early and not worrying about grade level. It truly depends on the child.

Edited April 25, 2010 by MissKNG
clarity

[siloam]

Yet another sonlight question:

I understand about matching the reading

level to your student. But, why wouldn't

I do core k with my k student? Almost

all the posts on the sl board push k

students to the pk 4/5 core.

 

Some of the Core K books are tough for younger kids. Hero's Tales is pretty meaty. Then on the emotional side you have Ten and Twenty, about hiding Jews in Nazi Germany. Well treated and nothing really bad happens, but the threat is ever present. Several titles that include death, though often it is just noted: Boxcar children (both parents have died), Family Under the Bridge (homeless family because dad died), The Hundreds Dresses (mother has died), Mary on Horseback (mother dies during the story).

 

There are kids who do fine with these at this age, and kids who do not. My oldest did K as a K student and didn't have any problems, but my younger kids (when I have re-read them) are all a lot more sensitive and I read them a year or two behind grade level. In fact I didn't read Ten and Twenty and The Hundred Dresses to my 9yo till this year.

 

Thus when advising people generally they advise on the conservative side. They would rather see you have a relaxed year in Pre 4/5 than have you do K and have it end up being too much.

 

BTW I will be setting up polls on the ages of kiddos doing each core. Keep an eye out for them if you have SL access.

 

Heather

[TrixieB]

Hi, can I jump in here and ask how well the grade level and age apply to the science programs?

 

 

 

 

 

 

My elder dd used Science 5 for the last half of 5th grade and first half of 6th grade. I thought it was quite appropriate for her at those ages; if she'd started it at the beginning of 6th or 7th, that would have worked well too.

 

My younger dd used Science 2 for the last half of 2nd grade and the first half of 3rd grade. Again, I thought it was appropriate, and if she'd started it at the beginning of 3rd grade, that would have been fine. I think much of Science 2 would be too "young" for a 4th grader, but that's just MHO.

 

I am considering using Science 4 for both girls, maybe starting in a month or so (the summer prior to 4th & 7th grades). I think it'll be a bit challenging for the younger, easier for the older, but I plan to give the older more responsibility for setting up the experiments, and may also require some extra reading on specific topics. Also my older has not touched on some of the topics for quite a while, and a few will be mostly new information for her.

 

So, I think it's not an issue at all to use a lower SL science level than grade level, especially with Science 3 and up.

[OhioMom66]

My elder dd used Science 5 for the last half of 5th grade and first half of 6th grade. I thought it was quite appropriate for her at those ages; if she'd started it at the beginning of 6th or 7th, that would have worked well too.

 

My younger dd used Science 2 for the last half of 2nd grade and the first half of 3rd grade. Again, I thought it was appropriate, and if she'd started it at the beginning of 3rd grade, that would have been fine. I think much of Science 2 would be too "young" for a 4th grader, but that's just MHO.

 

I am considering using Science 4 for both girls, maybe starting in a month or so (the summer prior to 4th & 7th grades). I think it'll be a bit challenging for the younger, easier for the older, but I plan to give the older more responsibility for setting up the experiments, and may also require some extra reading on specific topics. Also my older has not touched on some of the topics for quite a while, and a few will be mostly new information for her.

 

So, I think it's not an issue at all to use a lower SL science level than grade level, especially with Science 3 and up.

 

My daughter is in fifth grade doing Sonlight Science 4. I think this program is fairly challenging, so I would think your seventh grade dd will do fine with it. Dd is really enjoying it and say she loves science!

[texasmama]

That said, once you get to Core 3, you can't choose your level of LA anymore, and Core 3 has lots of independent reading. I did Core 3/LA3 with my 5th grader and it was a great fit. So if you use SL LA, it's a good rule of thumb to go by how well they write rather than how well they read. If you're using your own LA and your kids are great readers, then you'd be fine to use Core # as Grade #.

 

I agree that if you use your own LA program, the Cores are good for the "grade" stated. We use our own LA and my third grader (who is a very good reader) used the advanced Core 3 readers. It stretched him, as it was a lot of reading, but he did fine with it. The LA drowned him so we ditched it and switched.

 

That said, I have used one Core for both of my boys for two years, always choosing the older one's Core. My younger boy is very mature and super bright so he can keep up just fine with the subject matter and the readalouds. We will do the same for next year.

 

Neither of my boys has been overly bothered by the upsetting subject matter in the SL books, though I cried through half of the "Missionary stories with the Millers" chapters last year in Core 2. It was my oldest ds's favorite book and he always asked to read more of the stories.:001_smile:

[Lovedtodeath]

Science definitely goes along with the "it depends on the child" bandwagon imo.

 

Because of my big girl's age, the SL Curriculum Adviser discouraged me from even buying the P4/5 Science. So what did I do?? I went ahead and bought Science K - because I wanted everything included like supplies!!

 

Best decision I ever made!

 

My big girl is absolutely thriving and loving this program.

Thank you. How old is she? I was planning to do Science 4/5 and K with my DS.

 

Thanks Trixie and Beth for answering my question about science. DD will be 13 with science 6 if I follow my current plan. I just can't seem to choose between SL 3 and Apologia. :confused:

 

Our family does not enjoy SL history and reading, unfortunately.

[EppieJ]

Just to throw one more tidbit into the conversation - If you look on the website, you'll notice that SL recommends each core for a certain age/grade range and not individual ages/grades. There is great flexibility in these programs. I think most people (at least I know I do) find it easier to beef up a core for olders than to tame it down for youngers. This makes combining with differerent ages more feasible.

[meet me in paris]

Just to throw one more tidbit into the conversation - If you look on the website, you'll notice that SL recommends each core for a certain age/grade range and not individual ages/grades. There is great flexibility in these programs. I think most people (at least I know I do) find it easier to beef up a core for olders than to tame it down for youngers. This makes combining with differerent ages more feasible.

 

It's funny - my experience has been the opposite. I'm having a much easier time folding my little one into the higher cores than adding more "work" for my older one. We've done it both ways, and I definitely would rather do the higher core and take away. :)

[Donna T.]

We started Core K the same month that my son turned five. We did the Core and the Science. We didn't use the LA. My son was an exceptionally sensitive child. He is 11 now and is just now growing out of that. We loved Core K. I skipped The Apple and the Arrow and we read Twenty and Ten last. He adored all of his books and learned a ton.

 

One thing that I enjoy about SL is that you can take it at your own pace. The younger cores are not so tightly structured as the older ones, and it is easy to move the books around, take a little extra time on some, read others at double speed. It is no problem at all to present the material at whatever pace your child can handle.

 

I think sometimes SLers choose lower levels because they don't want their children to miss out on any of the books.

[m4given]

Just to throw one more tidbit into the conversation - If you look on the website, you'll notice that SL recommends each core for a certain age/grade range and not individual ages/grades. There is great flexibility in these programs. I think most people (at least I know I do) find it easier to beef up a core for olders than to tame it down for youngers. This makes combining with differerent ages more feasible.

 

It's funny - my experience has been the opposite. I'm having a much easier time folding my little one into the higher cores than adding more "work" for my older one. We've done it both ways, and I definitely would rather do the higher core and take away. :)

 

:) This makes me smile. I find it quite interesting to know the "whys" and the "hows" of adapting certain programs for home education. We're all so unique, not only individually, but also with our family style.

 

My brain works better to adapt the younger into what the older is doing, but have heard of a number of people who find it much easier to do it the other way around.

 

One suggestion I might add is to contact SL yourself and talk to an advisor. It may be interesting to see how helpful they are.

[Guest]

That was really hard for me at first too. I was trying to decide between Core K and P4/5 for my K'er last year and wanted to use Core K. Finally, I checked out a bunch of Core K books from the library and read them myself. Only then did I understand what the SL ladies were talking about with regards to maturity. As a K'er could have done Core K fine, but he's getting a lot more out of it this year as a 1st grader. I am so glad I listened and chose P4/5 for his K year. It wasn't overly challenging for him, but the books are really good and it gave us a lot of time to focus on the 3Rs. The p4/5 science books will probably remain some of his favorite books for a long time.

 

I didn't really get it either until we ordered K. Then, I started reading through the books and got cold feet. I ordered 4/5 and we are going through that first. I am not loving 4/5, but I'm hoping it increases his attention span a little and then he is more prepared for K when we start it. The books in K are SO good, but so rich. Reading through some of the books yourself is the best advice, I think.

[melmichigan]

The only hard part for me was that the advisor discussed placement at length with us over the phone on two seperate occassions and gave a recommendation. Many on the SL board, and even here disagreed with that placement (I'm sure with the best intentions :)) and expressed very strong opinions. Luckily the advisors placement is what we went with and it has worked very well. So, essentially, I second getting an SL advisor's opinion regarding your individual child, every family and child is different so there isn't a blanket answer. A core to grade level might work for your family and shouldn't automatically be excluded based on strong opinions made regarding other children. Hopefully that will make sense.

[StartingOver]

There are some very heavy-handed posters on the SL boards that discourage *anyone* from using cores at grade level. I listened to their advice, and it ended up not being a good fit for us (I put my 8yo in Core 1 and she was bored with it).

 

 

 

I have done Sonlight mixed with TWTM at varying levels for now 5 children. Mine do very well with K for Kindergarten, now that did range in age from almost 4 to 5 years of age when we started it.

 

It drives me nuts that most there insist that you must be a year behind. You know your child.... I would just check out some of the books and see what you think. They also have the 18 week guarantee.

 

So far with my second youngest we did P 3/4 at 2, P 4/5 at 3, and are now working on K and he will be 4 in june. I have read most of the older core books and don't see an issue for this son. But then again none of my children were sensitive, or I just glossed over some of the more difficult issues. I expect exposure in the early years, not mastery ! We are just putting up pegs.

Edited April 27, 2010 by alatexan68

[texasmama]

Interesting to see all the different possibilities. For my particular family, adding the younger into the older's Core has worked specifically because of the younger one's advanced skills in all areas, as well as maturity. He is not always able to sit still and listen to every word of the read alouds and that doesn't bother me. He gets most of it and that is good enough.:001_smile: