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My almost 7 year old is struggling with reading. CVC is easy for him and he knows the sounds of the letters. He is almost finished with the 80 lessons in headsprout.com and ETC 2 (we've taken our time with these). He is only on Lesson 81 in OPGTR.

 

Here are some of the issues:

 

*He almost always mixes up "d", "b", and "p". I've worked with him on the "bed" trick and a few others, but it just isn't sticking.

 

*Silent "e" is difficult, but he can usually read the word correctly after a few tries ("gate), but if you add an "s" and the end ("gates"), that stumps him often.

 

*Here is the biggest...he adds letters (mostly "l", "r", "t", and "n") that aren't even there. For example... "plan" becomes "plank" or "sash" becomes "stash" or "stink" becomes "strink". He will say it over and over this way because he knows he is saying it wrong, but he just can't say it right...at least that is my assumption.

 

So, do you think these are just normal almost 7 year old boy issues that we just need to keep plugging away at and he will eventually "get it", or do you think there is something else going on?

 

FWIW...when he started talking he couldn't pronounce the "st", "sn", "s-any consonant" combination but would say the second letter and put the "s" at the end of the word..."stop" would be "tops" and "snake" would be "nakes". I made up the phrase, "snake sneaks up on snack" and we practiced it a lot and he finally got it...also correcting the other s-blends.

 

Thank you for your help! :001_smile:

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My dd had some of the exact things you describe. We finally figured out she was dyslexic. There are many, many variations of it, and other reading issues. Just adding our experience. http://www.brightsolutions.us/

 

 

Thanks for the link. I'll check it out and may need to ask you more questions...if you don't mind! :001_smile:

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My youngest is dyslexic. I think you might need to research the possibility that your ds is dyslexic.

 

My dd has dyseidetic type dyslexia. Your ds sounds like he tends more towards dysphonetic type.

 

The programs that worked for my dd were:

Headsprout combined with I See Sam readers sets 1-4

followed by

Funnix level 2 combined with Phonics for Reading (Curriculum Associates) level 2

followed by

Phonics for Reading level 3

along with lots of

nonsense word work and timed repeated readings of DIBELS Oral Reading Fluency passages starting at 1st grade level and working up to 3rd grade level.

 

My dd did Headsprout at the beginning of 2nd grade and it was an immense help for her. She did Headsprout and I See Sam for just over half of 2nd grade and then did Funnix 2 for the rest of 2nd grade and into the start of 3rd grade. Then she did Phonics for Reading, nonsense words, and timed repeated readings for the rest of 3rd grade.

 

She could only read cvc words (and then only by sounding out, because she couldn't recognize any words on sight, not even her own name) at the start of 2nd grade, but was reading at grade level by the end of 4th grade.

 

She still is and will always be dyslexic. Reading is hard work for her. She has to work at staying focused on what is an incredibly difficult task for her. But she can do it. She even has things that she reads for fun now.

 

You might want to join the email loop HeartofReading on yahoogroups.

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My youngest is dyslexic. I think you might need to research the possibility that your ds is dyslexic.

 

My dd has dyseidetic type dyslexia. Your ds sounds like he tends more towards dysphonetic type.

 

The programs that worked for my dd were:

Headsprout combined with I See Sam readers sets 1-4

followed by

Funnix level 2 combined with Phonics for Reading (Curriculum Associates) level 2

followed by

Phonics for Reading level 3

along with lots of

nonsense word work and timed repeated readings of DIBELS Oral Reading Fluency passages starting at 1st grade level and working up to 3rd grade level.

 

My dd did Headsprout at the beginning of 2nd grade and it was an immense help for her. She did Headsprout and I See Sam for just over half of 2nd grade and then did Funnix 2 for the rest of 2nd grade and into the start of 3rd grade. Then she did Phonics for Reading, nonsense words, and timed repeated readings for the rest of 3rd grade.

 

She could only read cvc words (and then only by sounding out, because she couldn't recognize any words on sight, not even her own name) at the start of 2nd grade, but was reading at grade level by the end of 4th grade.

 

She still is and will always be dyslexic. Reading is hard work for her. She has to work at staying focused on what is an incredibly difficult task for her. But she can do it. She even has things that she reads for fun now.

 

You might want to join the email loop HeartofReading on yahoogroups.

 

Thank you for taking the time to share your experience and curricula route with me. I've been reading through the link LeAnn gave me (Bright Solutions) and am surprised at the number of times I nod my head and say, "yep...he does that". However, I am also noticing that he doesn't have many of the symptoms either. But, I am sure that dyslexic individuals don't show ALL symptoms. For example...writing...he forms his letters correctly, but writes some backwards and from the bottom up. His spacing is good and letters are legible, but his pencil grip isn't correct. Another example is directional words. If we say, "pick up the glass on the counter behind you", he looks around and doesn't seem to understand the "where". Also, I think it might be too much for him to "hang onto" in his mind. We are giving him direction, talking about a glass, and asking him to do something with it.

 

Thanks for reading this...if you have ;)...and helping me walk through it. Writing it all out in one place and really thining about it is a HUGE help! :001_smile:

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Greetings! Avoiding home duties here, so I must reply to your post :)

 

Our dd 6 has had each of these same issues from time to time. We just took things slowly and most have resolved themselves. I've found it helpful to get out of the usual phonics texts and do some real book reading, even if I'm doing most of the reading and giving dd a chance to read a word here and there. Green Eggs and Ham is one of our favorites to start reading real books together.

 

Yet, maybe there is something more. Do you have anyone in your university community who could do a one-on-one assessment? An education prof? A grad student? My friend here in P-town does the required WA state annual assessment with a lady who does it one-on-one and gives a great summary of skills, which side of the brain is working, reading level, etc.

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Thank you for taking the time to share your experience and curricula route with me. I've been reading through the link LeAnn gave me (Bright Solutions) and am surprised at the number of times I nod my head and say, "yep...he does that". However, I am also noticing that he doesn't have many of the symptoms either. But, I am sure that dyslexic individuals don't show ALL symptoms. For example...writing...he forms his letters correctly, but writes some backwards and from the bottom up. His spacing is good and letters are legible, but his pencil grip isn't correct. Another example is directional words. If we say, "pick up the glass on the counter behind you", he looks around and doesn't seem to understand the "where". Also, I think it might be too much for him to "hang onto" in his mind. We are giving him direction, talking about a glass, and asking him to do something with it.

 

Thanks for reading this...if you have ;)...and helping me walk through it. Writing it all out in one place and really thining about it is a HUGE help! :001_smile:

 

 

It looks like he has a lot of dyslexic symptoms and as you suspected not all of those particular symptoms apply to all people with dyslexia. I haven't seen too many kids who have dyslexia with the directional words. I do tend to see dysgraphia with dyslexia as they tend to be comorbid but I have seen some with the best handwriting :).

 

I think it might be helpful to make sure you have a solid phonics program and work at his pace. If he starts getting stuck slow down a little so that he continues to make progress.

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Developmentally letter reversals are perfectly normal until the end of 2nd grade (8 years old) but--

 

FWIW Itchys alphabet blackline masters 6 & 7 are the reversal packages that are supposed to prevent letter reversals b & d, p,q,g and any other possible reversals. It comes in both traditional format and script format.

 

black line master 6 in traditional

 

black line master 7 in script

 

 

I would think these would work just fine even if you do not use itchys alphabet! I can not imagine why it wouldnt!

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Anyone think these are just developmental issues that will work themselves out?

 

 

 

This sounds exactly like my son at age 7. He is dyslexic.

 

I would approach it as though it is dyslexia. The book Overcoming Dyslexia is a good place to start and if it is developmental then he will just have gotten some really good reading instruction. You will end up wasting valuable time if you wait to see if it is developmental and it turns out to be dyslexia.

 

If you decide to get an evaluation, I would recommend getting it done by someone with expertise in dyslexia.

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I read the book Why Our Children Can't Read and What We Can Do About It. I use a program based on the curriculum Reading Reflex and it has helped so much.

 

My ds (the 9 yr old) still does what your ds does but not as much anymore. I tell him to actually read the word from left to right looking at all the sounds that are there. For a bit I used an idex card and uncovered words one sound at a time for him to read. Or write words on a white board one sound at a time for him to read out loud. You can also have him write the word while saying each sound as he writes it. This really helps!

 

Anyway, the two books above helped me most.

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I talked to two advisors at our charter school (accredited teachers...not that they are experts or anything, but...) and they both said I really don't have anything to worry about unless the problems are still present in 3rd grade. So my first thought was to do what Mandamom suggested...

I think it might be helpful to make sure you have a solid phonics program and work at his pace. If he starts getting stuck slow down a little so that he continues to make progress.

 

BUT...then I had the same thought EKS gave...see bolded.

 

This sounds exactly like my son at age 7. He is dyslexic.

 

I would approach it as though it is dyslexia. The book Overcoming Dyslexia is a good place to start and if it is developmental then he will just have gotten some really good reading instruction. You will end up wasting valuable time if you wait to see if it is developmental and it turns out to be dyslexia.

 

If you decide to get an evaluation, I would recommend getting it done by someone with expertise in dyslexia.

As far as the expertise goes, we are not far from the Bright Solutions for the Dyslexic Child place, if we decide to do testing.

 

 

Developmentally letter reversals are perfectly normal until the end of 2nd grade (8 years old) but--

 

FWIW Itchys alphabet blackline masters 6 & 7 are the reversal packages that are supposed to prevent letter reversals b & d, p,q,g and any other possible reversals. It comes in both traditional format and script format.

 

black line master 6 in traditional

 

black line master 7 in script

 

 

I would think these would work just fine even if you do not use itchys alphabet! I can not imagine why it wouldnt!

 

Thank you for suggesting these! I will take a look.

 

I read the book Why Our Children Can't Read and What We Can Do About It. I use a program based on the curriculum Reading Reflex and it has helped so much.

 

My ds (the 9 yr old) still does what your ds does but not as much anymore. I tell him to actually read the word from left to right looking at all the sounds that are there. For a bit I used an idex card and uncovered words one sound at a time for him to read. Or write words on a white board one sound at a time for him to read out loud. You can also have him write the word while saying each sound as he writes it. This really helps!

 

Anyway, the two books above helped me most.

 

Great suggestions! I noticed our library has this. I'll head there tomorrow!

 

Greetings! Avoiding home duties here, so I must reply to your post :)

 

Our dd 6 has had each of these same issues from time to time. We just took things slowly and most have resolved themselves. I've found it helpful to get out of the usual phonics texts and do some real book reading, even if I'm doing most of the reading and giving dd a chance to read a word here and there. Green Eggs and Ham is one of our favorites to start reading real books together.

 

Yet, maybe there is something more. Do you have anyone in your university community who could do a one-on-one assessment? An education prof? A grad student? My friend here in P-town does the required WA state annual assessment with a lady who does it one-on-one and gives a great summary of skills, which side of the brain is working, reading level, etc.

 

I hadn't thought of utilizing the University! To be honest though, a lot of the stuff "over there" scares me. ;)

 

We've been reading "regular books" and he really likes them. I'll continue doing it with him and helping him when he needs it, combining what Kleine Hexe suggested. Sounds like a plan...for now.

 

Ugh! Too many decisions to make.

 

I appreciate everyone's input. You have been VERY helpful. :D

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So...I was thinking of using McRuffy Reading and Spelling next year but place him in the first grade materials. Any thoughts on that? I could supplement with other things. I checked out the Barton stuff and WOW...expensive!

 

I'll look into the Reading Reflex that was mentioned as well as what AngieW did. Any other suggestions? Continue with OPGTR? Ugh!

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I talked to two advisors at our charter school (accredited teachers...not that they are experts or anything, but...) and they both said I really don't have anything to worry about unless the problems are still present in 3rd grade. So my first thought was to do what Mandamom suggested...
It's fairly common for educators to want to wait until third grade before diagnosing dyslexia, but the symptoms usually show up earlier. By saying "don't worry until third grade", they aren't doing us any favors. They don't even save us the worry because we still worry, don't we? :)

 

You don't have to have a formal diagnosis of dyslexia to teach a child reading as though he has dyslexia. Even children without dyslexia can learn to read with methods approved for people with dyslexia. I've read lots and lots about reading problems, which affect about 10-15% of children in schools. Sadly, many professional educators really don't know how to teach reading to children prone to dyslexia. I found that point made over and over in books about dyslexia.

 

People have already given you some good suggestions, websites and book ideas. Keep working with your son and look into some of the hands-on methods to teach children with reading problems. Don't get discouraged. You might also try visiting the special needs section of the board where discussions of teaching children with dyslexia comes up fairly frequently.

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Some people I know use http://avko.org/index.htm materials to help their children read better. We use Sequential Spelling because I like the concept. My ds 7 loves it!

 

Lisa

 

This is FANTASTIC! They offer so many resources for free! I'm going to have a great time looking through this.

 

I hadn't thought about Sequential Spelling, but I just might. He see things in patterns a lot. Does it teach the phonics rules at all, or is that something I may just have to not really bother with but figure out other ways to teach him like this spelling program does? Clear as mud? :confused:

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It's fairly common for educators to want to wait until third grade before diagnosing dyslexia, but the symptoms usually show up earlier. By saying "don't worry until third grade", they aren't doing us any favors. They don't even save us the worry because we still worry, don't we? :)

 

You don't have to have a formal diagnosis of dyslexia to teach a child reading as though he has dyslexia. Even children without dyslexia can learn to read with methods approved for people with dyslexia. I've read lots and lots about reading problems, which affect about 10-15% of children in schools. Sadly, many professional educators really don't know how to teach reading to children prone to dyslexia. I found that point made over and over in books about dyslexia.

 

People have already given you some good suggestions, websites and book ideas. Keep working with your son and look into some of the hands-on methods to teach children with reading problems. Don't get discouraged. You might also try visiting the special needs section of the board where discussions of teaching children with dyslexia comes up fairly frequently.

 

Thanks for the encouragement. And yes, we do still worry...we're moms! :001_smile: He is a hands on learner. I haven't really looked into a way to teach him to read that way, but looks like I should spend some time doing that. I do have Happy Phonics, but we haven't really used it much. <going to blow the dust off now>

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Cheapest OG book--hands on ideas, Recipe for Reading by Traub and Bloom, $25, everything you need to make your own OG program.

 

I've had great success with all my remedial students with just nonsense words through my game and my phonics lessons and also the syllable division rules and exercises and other things explained on my how to tutor page and follow up with Webster's Speller.

 

Some of my students have to go a bit slower than others and need a lot more repetition, but I've gotten them all up to grade level (unless we moved right after I found them), and after discovering Webster's Speller, many of them above grade level. It's based on patterns, not rules, and the combination of spelling in with the reading. And, syllables, the true atoms of reading instruction, you can read about that on my dyslexia page.

 

If you need more nonsense words, I like "We All Can Read" by James Williams, 3rd grade and above.

 

Another good book for older students that shows you how to make your own letter tiles used with her lessons from bathroom tiles is "Back on the Right Track Reading"

 

I would write from the white board and use all uppercase to help with the B/D problem for a few months. Then, overteach B for a few days, then overteach b, then overteach D, then overteach d, then combine b and d, then overteach P and p, then do words with all 3 or various combinations of 2. Here is a sheet I developed along those lines, but with D first, along with a few b/d hints: http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/dbdb.html

 

:grouphug:

 

Math is my daughter's 1,000 repetitions needed subject...I thought her brother was going to learn his addition facts before her, he answered 7 + 7 once when she got it wrong! Now I'm teaching regrouping 1,000 times and explaining it 100 different ways with 20 different manipulatives, I think it's finally starting to stick!!

 

Money, on the other hand, took 10 seconds to learn. I was going to skip pages and move on, but she's enjoying it and loves doing the work, so we are just doing a few more pages a day than normal.

Edited by ElizabethB
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*Here is the biggest...he adds letters (mostly "l", "r", "t", and "n") that aren't even there. For example... "plan" becomes "plank" or "sash" becomes "stash" or "stink" becomes "strink". He will say it over and over this way because he knows he is saying it wrong, but he just can't say it right...at least that is my assumption.

:001_smile:

 

All of my students do this. Nonsense words help.

 

Also, if he does this, have him spell the word first, then read it. That usually slows down the guessing and gets them to look at all the letters from left to right, and it also lets you know if the problem is pronunciation or improper sounding out of letters via guessing. You can also try to have him just do the first part of the word, then the last part, then add them together... sa_ (underline to show missing consonant and short vowel, if it ended with a vowel it should be long!), so sa_ ,then ash, then say them again faster, then the whole word.

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He is a hands on learner. I haven't really looked into a way to teach him to read that way, but looks like I should spend some time doing that.

 

That's where having him write words, while saying each sound as he writes it, comes in. It's a hands on method to get his hands and brain working at the same time. You can also do work with tokens and segmenting words as they have you do in AAS. I see AAS in your siggie. The segmenting work with tokens helps a bunch. When my ds gets stuck on a word, I have him write it out while saying the sounds or use the tokens to segment the word. Doing that gets him unstuck and he figures out where he was making his mistake.

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So, do you think these are just normal almost 7 year old boy issues that we just need to keep plugging away at and he will eventually "get it", or do you think there is something else going on?

 

I think it's hard to say. Dari did all those same things, and he's just outgrowing them this year.

 

I had him evaluated for learning disabilities at the education department at the CSU. It was *way* less expensive than other private evaluations because it's done by a graduate student under the supervision of a professor. They did loads of different assessments. I can pass along the info if you'd like. The evaluation was really helpful in figuring out where his specific weaknesses were and some strategies for dealing with them.

 

I was pretty convinced that it was an LD issue, especially since my brother is a classic dyslexic. But it seems that it was just a matter of time and maturity because it is improving now. I was comparing his progression to the girls, since they were my only frame of reference, which made it hard.

 

He's using McRuffy's 2nd grade phonics and spelling this year, and has made HUGE strides.

Edited by sailmom
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BTW, I love the pictures on your blog! I love books, that looks like a fun bookstore. And, the pictures of Europe are great. We also loved the alps and the picture for my avatar is taken looking out from the inside of Mont St. Michel.

 

One more thing for you, here is a good thread with ideas about silent e words:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73087&highlight=silent+hop+hope

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BTW, I love the pictures on your blog! I love books, that looks like a fun bookstore. And, the pictures of Europe are great. We also loved the alps and the picture for my avatar is taken looking out from the inside of Mont St. Michel.

 

One more thing for you, here is a good thread with ideas about silent e words:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73087&highlight=silent+hop+hope

 

HA!!! I thought your avatar was from Mont St. Michel! I am pretty sure I took a picture out the same window! Isn't that the most amazing place!?!

 

Thank you for the links and book rec. in your earlier post, by the way. I haven't had time to look at them yet, but I plan taking a few hours to check them out. My son especially likes games so any way I can turn learning into a game is great. :001_smile:

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All of my students do this. Nonsense words help.

 

Also, if he does this, have him spell the word first, then read it. That usually slows down the guessing and gets them to look at all the letters from left to right, and it also lets you know if the problem is pronunciation or improper sounding out of letters via guessing. You can also try to have him just do the first part of the word, then the last part, then add them together... sa_ (underline to show missing consonant and short vowel, if it ended with a vowel it should be long!), so sa_ ,then ash, then say them again faster, then the whole word.

 

I like this idea! Now if I can just get him to stop getting frustrated with himself long enough to do it! He wants so badly to read the Magic Treehouse books just like his older brother did when he first started reading, but he is just not there. Not even close.

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HA!!! I thought your avatar was from Mont St. Michel! I am pretty sure I took a picture out the same window! Isn't that the most amazing place!?!

 

Yes, it was amazing! We went in the off season, so we were able to afford to stay inside Mont St Michel, we wouldn't have stayed inside at summer prices. And, we had pretty nice weather for our visit.

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That's where having him write words, while saying each sound as he writes it, comes in. It's a hands on method to get his hands and brain working at the same time. You can also do work with tokens and segmenting words as they have you do in AAS. I see AAS in your siggie. The segmenting work with tokens helps a bunch. When my ds gets stuck on a word, I have him write it out while saying the sounds or use the tokens to segment the word. Doing that gets him unstuck and he figures out where he was making his mistake.

 

We just did this step in Level 1 and he struggled at first, but then got the hang of it. I like the idea of having him do it with words we come across in his reading. I also found that it helped him to put his hand under his chin to count the syllables. Every time his draw dropped, that was a syllable. He thought it was fun and I tried tricking him with longer words. He got them! :001_smile:

 

Is ABCD (in your sig) ABeCeDarian? Is that the curricula you spoke of that follows the Reading Reflex? I read a bit online about it, and frankly, it just does not make sense to me. However, it may to him so I am going to read the book. Thanks for the suggestion!

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Spalding. It's my stock answer for everything, lol.

 

:iagree:

 

It was actually based on research by a group that was trying to avoid problems with dyslexia that were caused by the look-say method of reading in the 30's.

 

We are using Phonics Road level 1 which is an Spalding/OG method. I am really happy with it and the progress we are making.

 

I'm using it with my struggling reader (2nd) and a struggling speller( 4th). My oldest DD is a struggling reader and she said to me today that it's finally making sense how to spell. My 2nd grader is doing so much better with reading. He did/does many of the same things that your son is doing. Especially adding in letters. As we've been working through the program and having him slow down and sound out each letter those mistakes are becoming few and far between. He also gets b,d mixed up, but after reading more about cursive first, we are going starting that and I'm not teaching my K'er anymore manuscript.

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:iagree:

We are using Phonics Road level 1 which is an Spalding/OG method. I am really happy with it and the progress we are making.

 

 

 

So weird...I was *JUST* on their site checking things out and then I thought to click back here to search more about it. It looks like an interesting program and one I will look into further.

 

To be honest, I am a little overwhelmed with the amount of resources and curricula that is available for struggling readers. Guess that is a good thing though! ;)

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So weird...I was *JUST* on their site checking things out and then I thought to click back here to search more about it. It looks like an interesting program and one I will look into further.

 

To be honest, I am a little overwhelmed with the amount of resources and curricula that is available for struggling readers. Guess that is a good thing though! ;)

 

It is a good thing, but overwhelming!

 

My K'er is going to benefit from my trial and error with my older two (hopefully)! He will start with Phonics Road level 1, but I will introduce them in the order that is suggested in Cursive First. Then

 

I had purchased AAS, but it moves so slowly I knew my oldest would balk. We are moving through Phonics Road very quickly and she loves it. I did keep the AAS tiles though and I am letting my K'er use those to manipulate as we are working on learning the phonograms. When he is ready to start building words we will use those along with the student cards that come in the kit as a way to change things up a bit.

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Anyone else care to comment?

 

Anyone think these are just developmental issues that will work themselves out?

 

:lurk5:

 

My son was doing about the same at the end of first. Then he'd had a sudden leap forward. Then stay steady for a couple months. Then a sudden leap forward. In the last month his latest leap is that he reads a word and remembers it a line later, a page later, and a week later. We used to have to sound out each and every word.

 

I had him tested for dyslexia and vision problems when he was a little behind and covering one eye. Had neither. (I had him tested only because 1) his dad and granddad have/had severe dyslexia and 2) I'd never taught reading or even spent time reading to/with a child before.)

 

I was a late reader, and my patient father spent night after night reading to me and with me. I elected to do the same. I also did SWR which helped us both immensely. (I am not using it as my spelling program, just my reading program.) Now, pushing 8, my son CAN and WILL slow down and sound out words, and is a little above his grade level in reading and gaining ground fast. He can read SOTW 2 outloud, and I still find that amazing, considering where he was just 4 months ago.

 

There is another thread somewhere about a 9.5 year old who suddenly started reading novels and newspapers. I was that child. One day stumbling, next day sailing. HTH.

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