So what does a public school teach about evolution and creationism?

[Sarah CB]

At our local middle school, the grade 7 social studies teacher lists her weekly topics online. One of those topics is "Evolution and Creationism".

 

I'm A-Ok with leaving religion out of the public schools (if someone wants a Christian education they can still choose private school or homeschooling) which leaves me puzzled as to why this would be a topic in public school and what on earth would be said about it from a secular perspective.

 

I'm glad my kids aren't in that class, but I'd sure love to be a fly on that wall...

[duckens]

For me, this is just one more reason to homeschool.

 

Even if I were a Christian, I would be wary of someone else (especially someone not at my chosen church) teaching my child about religion.

 

Is it possible that this lesson teaches evidence-based thought...or the lack thereof?

 

*ducking to dodge deity-hurled lightning bolt*

[dangermom]

Is she maybe planning to discuss the whole controversy/fighting thing? She's a social studies teacher, not a science teacher, so that is what I would think. "Issues of the day" type of discussion.

[LauraGB]

Is she maybe planning to discuss the whole controversy/fighting thing? She's a social studies teacher, not a science teacher, so that is what I would think. "Issues of the day" type of discussion.

That is disheartening, actually. In a public school, I think that can be the only reason for sharing both, since I thought it was against the rules to bring religion into the schools.

 

I teach my children both views - and leave the final decision up to them. I know what I believe, but I came to my opinion of my own accord, and I can respect the decision of the opposite viewers. Kids are not stupid, and I intend to allow my own children to do the same and will respect whatever decision seems right to them. I would be surprised if the same mentality was exercised by a teacher in a public school class.

[Mergath]

That is disheartening, actually. In a public school, I think that can be the only reason for sharing both, since I thought it was against the rules to bring religion into the schools.

 

I teach my children both views - and leave the final decision up to them. I know what I believe, but I came to my opinion of my own accord, and I can respect the decision of the opposite viewers. Kids are not stupid, and I intend to allow my own children to do the same and will respect whatever decision seems right to them. I would be surprised if the same mentality was exercised by a teacher in a public school class.

 

I was under the impression that religion can be discussed in schools, but only in a non-biased, objective manner. As in, you can discuss the history of religion, or the societal impact of religion, but not proselytize.

[Mommyof4ks]

Our schools do teach both in a way, but we are a conservative state. :001_smile: I don't know the specifics, but I don't understand why either one is taught in school. That is a parent decision not a school decision.

[Sarah CB]

For me, this is just one more reason to homeschool.

 

Even if I were a Christian, I would be wary of someone else (especially someone not at my chosen church) teaching my child about religion.

 

Is it possible that this lesson teaches evidence-based thought...or the lack thereof?

 

*ducking to dodge deity-hurled lightning bolt*

 

That's definitelys something I'd be worried about. If she is teaching evidence-based thought then what are her views? Is she presenting both sides fairly? Is the class expected to come to some sort of a conclusion?

 

There are a good number of Christian kids in that school. My thought is that grade 7 is a really vulnerable age for someone in a position of authority and influence to be discussing creationism in such a way that would lead to a conclusion as to whether it's "true" or not.

[Sarah CB]

I was under the impression that religion can be discussed in schools, but only in a non-biased, objective manner. As in, you can discuss the history of religion, or the societal impact of religion, but not proselytize.

 

That's right. However, there is nothing in the learning outcomes for grade 7 social studies that would suggest teaching creationism/evolution in social studies. I guess that's why it surprised me. We do tend to include a lot of First Nations religious teaching in our public schools (which irritates me to no end)...

 

Grade 7 outcomes center on Ancient Civilizations. Students are supposed to look at settlement patterns, geographical influences to settlement, everyday life in Ancient cultures (which is where I would expect to hear about the religious beliefs of those cultures), etc. Perhaps they're discussing creationism when they look at Ancient "myths" for how the world began - but that doesn't explain why evolution (a decidedly modern idea) would fit in.

[Sarah CB]

Well, yikes-o. I was just reading the teacher's philosophy of education and here's a quote:

 

"Students will forget some of the concepts I teach them, but they will never forget how I made them feel. In order for a student to put information into memory, it must ‘feel’ right to them."

 

Again, I have no idea what her faith is or what worldview she is imparting as she endeavors to make her students "feel right" about creationism and evolution, but something about this whole thing sure doesn't feel right to me.

[smrtmama]

I don't think teaching about creationism is appropriate in a public school. It isn't science, it's theology, and unless the child is enrolled in a comparative religions class, creationism shouldn't even be on the docket.

[Nicole M]

Well, yikes-o. I was just reading the teacher's philosophy of education and here's a quote:

 

"Students will forget some of the concepts I teach them, but they will never forget how I made them feel. In order for a student to put information into memory, it must ‘feel’ right to them."

 

Again, I have no idea what her faith is or what worldview she is imparting as she endeavors to make her students "feel right" about creationism and evolution, but something about this whole thing sure doesn't feel right to me.

 

Why don't you just email her or call her up to discuss it?

 

I agree with her, though, that students do remember how they are made to feel. If she is a woman of integrity, she will make them feel safe enough to explore this big, beautiful world. Frankly, given the general tone of discussion right now about religion and politics, and our inability to process our intense diversity, it seems like religious persons and others need more opportunities for discussion, not fewer, and that children now more than ever should be exposed to and allowed to explore differing viewpoints in a safe and caring environment.

 

None of us know this teacher, her motives or agenda. We're just shooting in the dark, so it seems a little unfair, and, honestly, a little silly, to pass judgment. If it really concerns you, contact her.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Nicole M

[ThatCyndiGirl]

The OP is in Canada.

[Erica in PA]

At our local middle school, the grade 7 social studies teacher lists her weekly topics online. One of those topics is "Evolution and Creationism".

 

I'm A-Ok with leaving religion out of the public schools (if someone wants a Christian education they can still choose private school or homeschooling) which leaves me puzzled as to why this would be a topic in public school and what on earth would be said about it from a secular perspective.

 

I'm glad my kids aren't in that class, but I'd sure love to be a fly on that wall...

 

I see nothing wrong with this being a topic, especially in light of the fact that evolution is presented throughout schooling as the way life came into being. There is a very large percentage of the population who does not believe that theory to be true, and many who believe that God created the world, so in a public education, why not give at least some limited time to a different theory?

 

It doesn't surprise me that parents who subscribe to evolution would oppose this, but I don't really understand why someone who does believe that God created the world wouldn't want schools to ever mention that, but are fine with schools consistently teaching the opposite of that throughout their child's schooling?

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I believe God created everything and that God started the big bang and the process of evolution, knowing what the end result would be:)

 

I am not opposed to evolution being taught in schools at all since that is the prevailing scientific thought.

 

I am opposed to creationism being taught in the schools since that is a religious belief and a very specific one from what I understand in that it connotes a literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis along with young earth, etc. There are many Christians who do not subscribe to this specific idea of creation which includes a young earth, etc.

[babysparkler]

Times must have changed a bit, but when I went through public school, I NEVER heard one word about creationism (in fact, never a word or reference to God in any way) and was taught that evolution was a solid fact with evidence and support.

[Nicole M]

The OP is in Canada.

 

Thank you. I edited my response, but my opinion is the same. :001_smile:

[Julie in CA]

I went to public school, and I absolutely was taught both evolutionism and creationism. In fact, we were taught lots of theories about lots of different things. It would seem neglectful and contrary to a good education to never ever mention a theory that a reasonably good sized segment of our society believes. We were also taught about what people in ancient times thought caused plants to be green, along with info. about chlorophyl and photosynthesis...

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I have no problem teaching creationism along with evolution as long as they specify that evolution is the prevailing scientific thought and that creationism is a religious belief. I also think if they are going to present the religious belief of creationism then they should present the major creation stories found throughout the world's religions as well as the varying Christian beliefs on creation IMHO:)

[Sarah CB]

I went to public school, and I absolutely was taught both evolutionism and creationism. In fact, we were taught lots of theories about lots of different things. It would seem neglectful and contrary to a good education to never ever mention a theory that a reasonably good sized segment of our society believes. We were also taught about what people in ancient times thought caused plants to be green, along with info. about chlorophyl and photosynthesis...

 

It makes much more sense now. After some of the debates that have raged here I'm very aware of how passionately people can be about those topics and I would be concerned about the influence a teacher could have on a child's beliefs - regardless of what the teacher's belief was or what my own belief was.

 

I took a look at the text they use and there is a page that presents evolution and creationism in a very objective manner (for the most part). If the actual teaching is similar to what is found in the text then it's pretty tame, however, I remember being very influenced by ideas from my more passionate teachers when I was that age...

[KidsHappen]

My dd is in 7th grade but here in TN ancient civilizations in taught in 6th grade in social studies. They were taught comparative religions including the history, major tenets, creation beliefs and the effects these had on history and societies. Evolution was not taught in social studies or even the 6th grade. It is taught in 7th & 8th grade in science. The two ideas are not integrated at all. They are never taught creationism per se although it may be mentioned as a general idea that kids may want to check out on their own. I have no idea how this could be taught in PS here in the US and even if it was, I would questions social studies as the appropriate class to cover it unless they were only teaching the overall debate and societal implications of it which seems a little deep for middle school. I did not cover this in school until college. I would definitely be asking the teacher a lot of questions to find out exactly what will be covered and how.

 

Regardless of a parent's POV this is absolutely something that a parent needs to talk to their child about especially if the child is getting some religious training regarding the subject. My dd was learning one thing in school and another in church and having difficulty integrating the two ideas in her mind and I was the only person that could discuss both subjects with her and try to help her work out the differences.

[mommyrooch]

I believe God created everything and that God started the big bang and the process of evolution, knowing what the end result would be:)

 

I am not opposed to evolution being taught in schools at all since that is the prevailing scientific thought.

 

I am opposed to creationism being taught in the schools since that is a religious belief and a very specific one from what I understand in that it connotes a literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis along with young earth, etc. There are many Christians who do not subscribe to this specific idea of creation which includes a young earth, etc.

 

:iagree: I would be more concerned with a teacher teaching Creationalism than I would be a teacher teaching evolution. Evolution is a scientific topic. Creationalism is a religious topic and as Priscilla pointed out, one that isn't even agreed upon amongst Christians.

 

For example, I am a Christian and I believe that God created everything. I believe in intelligent design but I do not believe in the literal 7 days of creation and that the Earth is only 4-6 thousand years old (i.e. young earth).

 

I would have more problems with a teacher pushing young earth and literal 7 days because these are interpretive religious beliefs. I am more uncomfortable with a teacher pushing their religious convictions on my kids than I am them presenting them to evolution because evolution is a scientic topic, not someone's "specific" religious beliefs.

[LisaKinVA]

IMHO, it looks like Creationism is NOT being taught, but Creation Myths as a part of study of ancient civilizations. There is a difference.

 

Creation Myths are varied, and are not exclusive to the Christian faith. They exist as a part of many different faiths. From a historical/sociological perspective an important thing to study. In many ways, one could argue that by studying Creation Myths they put Creationism on the same playing field as a folk tale.

 

OTOH, Why Creation Myths are taught alongside Evolution, I don't know. Unless they are covering the 1800's and Darwin's impact on Creation Myths... that one boggles my mind.

[Erica in PA]

I believe God created everything and that God started the big bang and the process of evolution, knowing what the end result would be:)

 

I am not opposed to evolution being taught in schools at all since that is the prevailing scientific thought.

 

I am opposed to creationism being taught in the schools since that is a religious belief and a very specific one from what I understand in that it connotes a literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis along with young earth, etc. There are many Christians who do not subscribe to this specific idea of creation which includes a young earth, etc.

 

Isn't what you're saying that you don't believe in a literal 6 day creation, so you don't want it taught? It doesn't surprise me that someone who believes that God used evolution to create the world wants evolution to be taught. I think that's everyone's position: we all want what we believe to be actually *true* to be taught in schools. It's not truly a question of what is religion, what is science, etc. Truth is truth, and since there is a very strong level of disagreement among Americans as to how our universe actually was formed, I think it's reasonable to present several options.

[mommaduck]

I believe it depends on the teacher. Some teach only evolution with no mention of creation. Some may mention that others believe differently. Some may bring it up for debate. Some teachers even choose to AVOID those chapters (dealing with evolution) altogether (my highschool science teachers did...skipped the first several chapters of our biology book).

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Isn't what you're saying that you don't believe in a literal 6 day creation, so you don't want it taught? It doesn't surprise me that someone who believes that God used evolution to create the world wants evolution to be taught. I think that's everyone's position: we all want what we believe to be actually *true* to be taught in schools. It's not truly a question of what is religion, what is science, etc. Truth is truth, and since there is a very strong level of disagreement among Americans as to how our universe actually was formed, I think it's reasonable to present several options.

 

IMHO, in science classes, science and not religion should be taught. Evolution is the prevailing scientific thought and not religious thought. If creationism is taught, then it should be presented as one religious belief regarding creation and then, other creation stories should be presented as well from other world religions IMO.

 

Parents are always free to present their own beliefs to their own children and should IMHO. I do not want the schools teaching my ds what religious beliefs he should uphold since that is my job:)