How do I make a child take her eyes off herself?

[cin]

My 8 yr old daughter has to be the star, the leader, the one in charge. She is THE. TOP. DOG. PERIOD. Examples:

 

She will NOT play school if little sister is the teacher. This includes gymnastics class or dance class.

 

She decided yesterday that she wants to quit her (real) dance class. I aksed the teacher what happened, she said that at the end of class they have a free dance time, and they end it with a certain stance with 1 person in the middle. DD is always in teh middle and she suggested that someone ELSE be allowed to do that today.

 

We alternate days on who picks movies adn who picks Wii games. If it is not her day, she doen'st want to play/watch. And my other dd ends up either playing by herself or changing so that big sister will play with her. So basically, oldest ends up picking the game/movie EVERY day.

 

She just canNOT stand to NOT be in charge. She also has all the answers; If I say the sky is blue, she'll tell me it's light teal. and so on...

It's getting really really really old. And honestly, I'm just not wanting to be around her.

[Haiku]

I have discovered, with my somewhat bossy eight-year-old and my seven year old who wants to do whatever he can to please his sister, that I can't interfere too much in their play. I encourage my son to stick up for himself, and if I see that he is unhappy with what's going on I step in and give him a chance to make himself heard, but forcing my dd to play what he wants to play doesn't work. In private moments I talk to my son about standing up for himself and not being dd's lackey, and he is making some progress.

 

In terms of the Wii and the movies, I would tell the older dd that she needs to decide before the game is picked or before the movie is chosen whether she will be participating. If she says yes, she's in no matter what the choice is. If she says no, she's out even if the little sister picks something she wants to play/watch. In this way, she has to make her choice independently of her sister's choice and can't use her participation or lack thereof to manipulate her sister's choice. Take little sister into another room and allow her to make her choice away from big sister.

 

Tara

[mom2hunangirls]

Hmmmm...can't help at all...but I could have written this entire post about my older daughter. She's 6.5.

I'll be keeping my eyes on this thread for some advice!

[spradlin02]

I'd say in an honest, positive and constructive manner, tell her how you feel. Show her the consequences of these actions and work with her to look internally at her motivations and why she needs to be in charge. These sound like long held behavior patterns that won't change quickly and it will be a lot of work to do so. The first step is for her to want to change her behavior. You can give her incentive in a number of ways. Punishment is thought of as a good tool, but I personally see that as negative incentive that does nothing to teach about real world consequences and internal motivations. I'd work on figuring out positive and productive ways for her to have incentive to want to change her own behavior; I just don't believe that we can make our children to do anything - or at least they react negatively when we do.

 

I'm working through the same process with my six year old with respect to breaking down. Sometimes, if things don't go his way, he just falls apart. There's part of me that has to accept (not condone) the situation, there's part of me that has to have empathy for his position (long held behavior patterns), and there's part of me that has to draw the line and show him that the behavior is not acceptable (to me...or society), and it's not productive for him. So it's hard work and takes a lot of patience. To be sure, it's much easier to just send him to timeout, but what does that teach him about his behavior and himself? I just don't see that as productive in the long-term. But it's hard.

 

Concerning behavior patterns, studies are showing that our behaviors become hard-wired into our brain. We can change them, but it's work and it's to use the paths already developed than take the work to create new ones.

Edited March 19, 2010 by spradlin02

[SonshineLearner]

Maybe stories about humbleness? I can tell you stories from VBS that the teacher told us in opening from when I was between maybe 8 and 10? Two stories in particular... the story about little Timmy who stole the lunch from someone else.... and the story about the boy who always wanted the biggest and best. (his mom set it up with g-ma that at the holiday he would get the biggest ... but the worst... so when he got the biggest apple.. it had a worm... when he got the biggest piece of pie... it has something gross in the slice... etc) Anyway, these stories make me realize that when you hit on the right moral story.. they can stay with your children much longer than anything you just say.

;)

[ereks mom]

I have discovered, with my somewhat bossy eight-year-old and my seven year old who wants to do whatever he can to please his sister, that I can't interfere too much in their play. I encourage my son to stick up for himself, and if I see that he is unhappy with what's going on I step in and give him a chance to make himself heard, but forcing my dd to play what he wants to play doesn't work. In private moments I talk to my son about standing up for himself and not being dd's lackey, and he is making some progress.

 

 

We went through this same thing with EK, who was insistent about getting her own way about everything, even when it involved ER (4+ years OLDER than EK) or even me. She wasn't that way with dh, who has a much more forceful personality than ER & me. I used to talk to ER about how to deal with his sister, and I encouraged him to stand up for himself, but it was difficult for him because he is non-confrontational by nature.

 

This situation was the subject of constant prayer for dh & me for a LONG time. It all came to a head one day when EK was about 10 or 11, and I sat her down and had a LONG talk with her about how even though I LOVED her, it was hard to LIKE her. I talked to her about how she would have a hard time keeping friends if she didn't change, and most importantly, we talked about her spiritual state--how she claimed to be a Christian but wasn't bearing fruit in her life.

 

Something apparently FINALLY clicked, and she began to change. Once it began, the change happened FAST. Within weeks, she became obedient and was pleasant to be around, and became fast friends with the brother she once tormented. Now, at age 15, she is no longer the same girl she was then. She is truly a DELIGHT.

[mktkcb]

Boy, I can relate to this LOL! My kids are older now, but all of mine are somewhat competitive, and my youngest son is very much like this (only a little better now at age 13). As far as the silly stuff goes (sky is teal...etc), I would learn the word "whatever". It can be said in numerous tones of voice, and you can add all manner of nuances to it to make it fit the occasion :o). "mmmmhmmm" is another good one like this. OK, on to the real stuff. As you know, it's totally a character issue. The real issue here is pride. I know you are a believer (I've read your blog), so I'll assume you've had all *those* conversations :o). In the situation of the dance class, you would of course not let her quit. She needs to know that until you see improvement in the pride/being first area she is not allowed to be first at the end of the dance. Period. You will be asking her teacher each time. Pick some good scripture to memorize pertaining to this, and rehearse it every time before class. Pray with her before class. I still remind my (now) 16yo as she goes out the car door to co-op class to "go bless someone". IOW, be *very* proactive. She earns back the privilege of occasionally being first by being cheerfully and habitually last. In the movie/wii scenario, I would let your girls know that it is not just the other sisters turn to "have" something, it is their turn to be blessed by giving something (time, friendship, choice). If your dd decides not to bless her sister by playing with her, she needs to spend that time blessing her in another way (doing a chore for her, or something of the like). Meaning she is not "off the hook" so to speak. She needs to learn that until she is willing to freely give up her rights she has none. And it is easier to say (as a parent) than to do. It means keeping an eye out, pulling kids aside for "chats" ("You know...I see you starting to be prideful and not serving so-and-so. Have you asked so-and-so what she wants to do? This is a warning....if I see it continue then "X" will have to happen. Remember we're working on serving others...blah blah..." Frankly, it is a long term process with occasional short term intense sessions (sounds like you could use an intense one right now). Always go back to scripture. Start with scripture. End with scripture. Pray pray pray. Fwiw, we aren't all the way there on this issue yet in our family. We work at it. So I guess my best advice is to keep at it. 8 is young :o).

Kayleen

[Laurie4b]

Are you a Christian? Several Scripture stories would be good: about the last being first and the first being last, about the person who took a seat of honor at a party and then had to move, etc. The arrogant women are always the bad guys in fairy tales. It's the humble one who is chosen by the prince.

 

I would set an expectation that she learn to be polite by paying attention to others' interests. Make it a rule and then enforce it, like any other behavioral expectation.

 

For instance, I would change the rules about Wii/movies. If she doesn't play, she doesn't get to choose the next day. Other dd chooses again. You play with other dd, when controlling dd won't. In other words, if she sticks it to the younger sister, the younger sister gets the bigger reward of time with you. She doesn't get to join in until the next day once she's opted out.

 

Also, point out "consideration of others" whenever anyone in or out of your family does that. Have dh point out when you're doing that and you point out when dh is doing that. Compliment it in your other dd, in friends, etc.

 

At the same time, I would focus some talk on specific gifts God gave her and also make sure that you are being affectionate with her . She may be insecure and all the self-attention is to reassure herself. What I'm saying is reassure her another way. Maybe even speak that reassurance when she's acting like the center of the universe: "Sweetie, you don't have to show that you're important by always being first (getting what you want, etc.) . We love you."

 

I think if you think of it as any other behavior it will help you figure out what to do. If she regularly hit her sister, other kids, etc, what would you do? You'd probably teach her alternate ways to solve her problems, have her practice those, praise her when she used them, and dish out consequences when she hit. Trying to always get her way is a problem.

 

Next dance class, go pick her up before the special free dance thing.

 

Be matter-of-fact but very consistent about this.

[wbtx]

Can you give her an outlet where it is appropriate to be top dog?

Also try to remember some of the character traits that drive us nuts in a child are actually good traits for an adult. LOL, I remind myself this on a daily basis.

Edited March 19, 2010 by wbtx

[cin]

Thank you all for your input. As a believer, I find it embarrassing to say that I often do behavior modification, punishment, etc before I think of scripture and parables.

 

One of our biggest concerns is dd2 turning into a pleaser by trying to please her big sister. Thanks for some great ideas to help get the poor younger child through this!

 

I do know that at some point, her strong willedness, and desire and ability to lead WILL be beneficial, I just wnat to guide her so that, in the mean time, she doens't lose all of her friends.

[....]

I have one of these too. I'm surprised she hasn't had me "taken away" so she can assume leadership of the household. :D

 

In all seriousness, though...there are several important callings for that particular personality. I was a Sergeant in the army for 7 years and people with that personality tended to be absolute superstars in that environment.

 

Maybe she'll make a great ER doctor someday or a Med-surg nurse...or an Airborne School Instructor... I think mine's going to be a Veterinarian AND the President. She'll be the first Veterinarian-President. :smilielol5:

[Mejane]

Cin, my kids had a dynamic much like your kids. Daughter, the elder, would tell brother, "Be a dog!", and he would immediately fall to the floor barking. This went on for years. One day he apparently got tired of it and just said, "No, you be the dog." Changed the whole relationship. :D

[Liz CA]

I wonder if you insisted that your younger daughter pick the movie (regardless of older sister watching) and stayed firm with other things you rotate, she will soon discover that is she is missing out on movies and dance class. You could perhaps invite other children to watch a movie with the younger daughter so she is not alone or watch it with her and make it extra fun with popcorn, etc. The more fun it is the sooner the older one may feel she would like to be part of it. It may take a few incidents to get the point across but my guess would be she'd come around and realize why. Also, as someone else suggested, during this time you could emphasize stories about "taking turns" and "humbleness."

 

I feel it is as important for the younger girl to feel heard and validated as it is for the older one to learn to share and take turns.

 

[Rosie_0801]

Talk about leadership as being a positive thing, then when she seems receptive (even a little ;) ) talk about the differences between good and bad leadership styles. Don't make it personal unless you have to. Provide examples from her life, and encourage her to talk to you about different people's leadership styles. Once she gets used to identifying these things, and has the vocabulary to talk to you about it, you can start getting personal. She's a little kid. Once she gets the idea that she is being a good person if she lets other people go first sometimes, she'll start doing it. What that will probably mean is making sure she's second, and she'll grab someone, anyone, to pull in front of her so she won't actually be first! If she does that, praise her for taking these character lessons on board. Once you feel she's ready, it'll be time to talk about more gentle ways of accomplishing the same things :)

 

Rosie

[Rosie_0801]

Talk about leadership as being a positive thing, then when she seems receptive (even a little ;) ) talk about the differences between good and bad leadership styles. Don't make it personal unless you have to. Provide examples from her life, and encourage her to talk to you about different people's leadership styles. Once she gets used to identifying these things, and has the vocabulary to talk to you about it, you can start getting personal. She's a little kid. Once she gets the idea that she is being a good person if she lets other people go first sometimes, she'll start doing it. What that will probably mean is making sure she's second, and she'll grab someone, anyone, to pull in front of her so she won't actually be first! If she does that, praise her for taking these character lessons on board. Once you feel she's ready, it'll be time to talk about more gentle ways of accomplishing the same things :)

 

I feel it is as important for the younger girl to feel heard and validated as it is for the older one to learn to share and take turns.

Yeah, but the older one also needs validation. She needs a bit of "spit and polish" to bring out her natural shine. She doesn't need to be thumped with a hammer because she's the wrong shape. A kid like this is probably more delicate than her younger sister, though it won't look that way.

 

Rosie

[Anne]

As your dd gets older, you can talk about the gift of leadership, which she probably has. Talk about finding role models to emulate. Discuss why some leaders are loved and revered, and others are just tolerated or feared. Discuss which kind she would like to follow...

 

This was very helpful for one of my dds.

 

Anne

[elfinbaby]

I have not been through this particular problem with my dc; however, I do have a ds who has particular personality characteristics that can/have isolated him socially. For instance, ever since he was about 5 he has acted in over-the-top ways when he is goofing around with others. He is EXTREME to the point that he acts like a total weirdo and other children literally tell him so. We have talked to him about this behavior for years to no avail. Recently he told me, "Yeah, when I act all crazy people think I'm weird." It was like it was the first time it had occurred to him!

 

From this experience I have two pieces of advice: 1) When this behavior begins to truly isolate her from events, friends, etc., she will eventually notice 2) Give her a heads up on how this type of behavior will work against her in the future. As another poster mentioned, I would bring out how this strong characteristic, expressed in a more acceptable way, will work for her; however, in it's current form, she's not going to make any friends:(

[plansrme]

Well, I am the first in line to criticize the Ezzos, but before we knew how crazy they were, we took their Bringing Up Kids God's Way class, and this is the one tip we utilized from them when one of our children started acting like this:

 

Take away all of her choices. She doesn't choose what to have for lunch, what clothes to wear, when to go to bed, what to drink with lunch, when to have a snack, what to do in school. NOTHING. It is a gimmick, and the Ezzos say it is the antidote for a child who has become too wise in her own eyes, whatever that means, but it worked for us.

 

Terri

 

ETA: Oh, you do eventually add back choices as her behavior shapes up.