4th grade help

[Tidbits of Learning]

I have 4 kids and my oldest dd9 is in the 4th grade. This is our first year home and it has definitely been an adjustment and there were definitely gaps from public school.

I have finished getting her grade sheets and putting in the first quarter grades on her report card. It isn't pretty. She has 3 C's, 2 F's, and 1 A. The A is in spelling. She isn't doing awful and her F's are 2 points away from D's. Her C's are all within 5 points of B's.

We are using CLP's 4th grade right now with a mix of Abeka and CLP. I plan to switch to Covenant Home Curriculum next year with both my girls. My 3rd grader is doing well with A's and B's. My 4th grader will probably pass this year (barely in some subjects), but I am thinking about holding her back next year.

I am really considering doing 4th grade CHC with both girls next year. My fourth grader has serious gaps in reading comprehension, english grammer, and writing. We have been playing catch up in the math department as well. It seems she didn't truly learn the skills, but just knew enough to get a passing grade. She is not going to make really good grades this year and I am really feeling that another year with the 4th grade skills would really help her out in the long run.

The only problem is that it would put her in the same grade as her sister that is only 13 months younger than her.

I don't think she will "fail" the 4th grade this year grade wise. I just don't feel that it would be in her long term best interest to move ahead.

Since this is my first year homeschooling, I am asking those that have btdt what they did or would do in my situation. I know if she was in public school and passed even barely that she would be promoted to the next grade.

Edited December 31, 2009 by OpenMinded

[amtmcm]

How about putting them both into a curriculum which is intended for combining kids (with no grade level) like A World of Adventure, My Father's World, Winter Promise, etc....?

 

Winston Grammar and Analytical Grammar are for a grade range and not a specific grade level so it could also be combined without designating 4th or 5th grade.

 

Christian Light Education uses levels instead of grades (ie: level 400 is typically 4th grade) and their Reading program is outstanding. It was recommended on this forum and we've really enjoyed it this year.

 

And I'll duck for cover while suggesting this one..... but how about using Teaching Textbooks Math for your DD9? It is easily a grade level behind so if you put her in TT5 next year (after using the placement test) she will really be doing 4th grade math without the stigma of being behind.

 

What is her learning style? I find that my kids do much better and retain more when the curriculum fits their learning styles.

 

I haven't been in your situation, but I know my DD4th sees her big sister skipping a grade level and she wants to do the same. Kids can be very aware of and sensitive about their grade levels so I would hesitate to hold her back unless there was no other way to catch her up.

 

Best of luck.

Edited December 31, 2009 by amtmcm

[Kate in VA]

I can't believe you know her exact grades:D I have never even thought about it.... We don't work with grades is mind... If she masters something we move on... if not then we don't. Is she close to 10? My dd also 9 is working through 3rd and 4th... we always tell others her grade if she were in PS which would be 3rd but we work on things at whatever level she is on.... I agree with the other advise (finding something to suit both kids) they are so close in age that it would blend nicely.... I have an only child so that would never cross my mind ;)

I also agree with TT. My dd is in a grade above in math and my dd is saying that so far it is all things she learned last year... but she is working through it and then we will move up... (more practice :D)

HTH's

Kate

[Tidbits of Learning]

We are keeping report cards for all the kids for their records. I'm not as concerned about the grades as much as whether I should promote her based on just the pass/fail grades. I think she will pull passing grades by the end of the 2nd term. They won't be great grades this year, but I think she will technically pass.

It is just that I don't think she is ready for 5th grade work. She is a young 4th grader. She won't turn 10 until mid-July. I can see the immaturity with assignments and she is definitely lacking a lot of skills that should have been nurtured in 2nd and 3rd grade. She was in public school through 3rd grade and made honor roll the entire time.

It is bumming me out that she isn't making the same grades at home. She is capable, but I don't think the foundation has been well laid. Her 3rd grade year in public school was spent preparing for the ILEAP (state tests). Truthfully, in hindsight doing 3rd grade with my 3rd grader, I realize that dd9's 3rd grade year was spent in test prep. She wasn't learning 3rd grade material and they didn't finish but 1/2 of the 3rd grade material b/c after Christmas break until April they were preparing for the ILEAP test.

I had no idea that they focused so much on test prep last year until we were well into our 4th grade year this year. I appreciate the advise of those that have replied. I wish that I knew that it would go ok if we hold her back and essentially put her in the same grade as her younger sister who has had 3rd grade at home.

Has anyone else held their child back that technically passed the grade? I know she could keep plugging away and scrape C's and B's by the end of each grade if I keep promoting her based on just the grades, but I just don't feel she has the foundation in reading/writing skills and math skills to move forward even if she pulls the grade by the end of the year.

I know in public school she would have been promoted if she pulled the grades (even poor grades) by the end of the year. What would the hive do in my situation? Would you extend 4th grade another year? Would you just plough ahead and hope it all comes out in the wash? Would you just redo 4th grade language arts and math?

If I thought that she was going to have a sudden click moment or suddenly mature and grasp the assignments and excel, then I wouldn't ponder it right now...but, it seems that she will probably just keep plugging along and scrape her way to passing in the tough for her subjects...I plan to buy our curriculum with tax money and just really want to feel peace with saying she isn't ready which feels so harsh to say about your own child.

[HollyDay]

I'll throw in my 2 cents. I think the elementary levels should be about mastery. She has not mastered whatever subjects her Fs are in. She should not progress to the next level without successfully completing the previous level. This will only set up frustration and confusion for both of you.

[mrs.m]

I agree with Holly. I would also stop focussing on the lack of preparation that the public schools did not provide. My DD went to PS until 3rd grade and it is a different program. Test prep is still learning it just isn't what we would choose to focus on. I was really spinning my wheels on that one and decided it was time to move on! I found that the first semester home was learning where her weaknesses were at and targeting them.

 

And I would even consider going back and going over those things she's failing in rather than continuing on and her continuing to fail as the subjects progress.

 

I'm wondering though... Are you grading practice work or are these test grades? I don't grade practice work except to note things that need to be corrected. I will grade tests but I don't usually offer them until I feel like they are ready to prove mastery.

[Ellie]

I wouldn't require her to repeat 4th. Unless she has serious learning difficulties it is probable that she'll catch up to where she should be academically, and that's common with children who were in public school before coming home.

 

I'd choose instructional materials that are not grade-level specific for as many subjects as possible. I'm thinking you might need to do more intense English studies with her (spelling, reading, etc.). My recommendation would be Spalding; you'd see amazing results in a short amount of time. You could do Spaldng with your other dc, also.

 

Instead of letter grades, consider doing something like this:

M Mastered

S Satisfactory Development

I Introduced

NA Not applicable now

[Colleen in NS]

This is our first year home and it has definitely been an adjustment and there were definitely gaps from public school.

 

My fourth grader has serious gaps in reading comprehension, english grammer, and writing. We have been playing catch up in the math department as well. It seems she didn't truly learn the skills, but just knew enough to get a passing grade. She is not going to make really good grades this year and I am really feeling that another year with the 4th grade skills would really help her out in the long run.

 

I'm not as concerned about the grades as much as whether I should promote her based on just the pass/fail grades.

 

It is just that I don't think she is ready for 5th grade work. She is a young 4th grader. She won't turn 10 until mid-July.

 

It is bumming me out that she isn't making the same grades at home. She is capable, but I don't think the foundation has been well laid.

Has anyone else held their child back that technically passed the grade?

 

Would you extend 4th grade another year? Would you just plough ahead and hope it all comes out in the wash? Would you just redo 4th grade language arts and math?

If I thought that she was going to have a sudden click moment or suddenly mature and grasp the assignments and excel, then I wouldn't ponder it right now...but, it seems that she will probably just keep plugging along and scrape her way to passing in the tough for her subjects...I plan to buy our curriculum with tax money and just really want to feel peace with saying she isn't ready which feels so harsh to say about your own child.

 

First of all, good for you for recognizing her needs and the fact that her ps experience didn't give her necessary academic skills. Chin up! You are going to do a fine job with her and your other kids, the further along you go!

 

If it were me, I would probably still just call her a 5th grader next year, because you seem reluctant to call both kids 4th graders, understandably so. And I would just keep plugging away with her, wherever she is at. If she is "behind" in math/reading/spelling/grammar/writing skills, I would just continue to focus on those and not bother with any formal science/history/literature/art/music study - just use library book reading in those areas to provide fodder for reading and writing practice.

 

If your 4th and 5th graders will be working from the same skill book (let's say, R&S math 4, just for example), you can just tell them that this is what's needed right now (if they notice and it's an issue) - maybe the 5th grader won't need a whole year on the 4th grade math book - maybe she will end up going more quickly through the book - they don't need to stay on the same lesson. These are all the fine details you get to figure out, to tailor each of their education.

 

I've not had the experience of taking a child out of ps, but from reading I have done here about people who have, it seems to me that most kids, given time, do catch up and eventually excel in these skills, because they are not bogged down anymore with various extra things that go along with ps attendance.

 

Also, to hopefully encourage you, it's not harsh to say that your child isn't ready for the next level. If she isn't ready, it's more harsh to try to prod her into something she isn't ready for. Realize, though, that education isn't so much about promoting from one grade to the next, which implies that a person has mastered EVERY skill in that "grade" - it's more about making sure that, esp. the elementary aged children, they master each academic skill, at the point that they are working. It's completely normal for a child to be, say, working on a 3rd grade level math, with a 5th grade reading level, and a 2nd grade grasp on grammar, and writing like a 1st grader. IMO, those grade numbers don't really mean a whole lot - it's more important to work with them where they are at, in each skills. A possible goal to work towards would be to get her up to certain levels in each skill, by say 6th or 7th grade. This gives you and her time to play "catch up" and not stress so much about whether or not to call her a 5th grader.

 

A practical question - what do you consider 5th grade work, that she may not be ready for?

 

EDIT: LOL, I just saw Ellie's post. I agree with all she said. I was thinking of her as I typed my reply. :)

Edited December 31, 2009 by Colleen in NS

[Testimony]

I just want you to know that I approach school and learning so differently. Public school teaches very differently than homeschooling. The focus of my schooling is a desire for my children to love to learn. I teach with the purpose of the boys wanting to get up and learn.

 

I struggle with labeling a child by putting them in grades based upon tests. Testing a child is what public schools do because it is assemblyline work. It makes it easier to figure out which child falls on the line and which child falls off. Testing is a skill and ability that has to be taught just like any subject. Why couldn't your child be a 6th grader in reading, a 3th grader in math, and 7th grader in science? Why is it necessary to put public school labels on a child?

 

I do the IOWA tests with my children, but I use it more as a guide to tell me how they test. I do want them to practice testing, but not to determine whether they should pass or fail. If my sons struggled in a basic skill, I would slow down the lesson and take more time with them. I put my younger son back a grade in kindergarten because he struggled with reading. So he is 10 years old, but he is in 4th grade. He can read fine now.

 

This is only my opinion, just a thought. You know your child and you do what you think is right.

 

Blessings in your homeschooling journey!

 

Sincerely,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

Edited December 31, 2009 by Testimony
grammar

[Tidbits of Learning]

A practical question - what do you consider 5th grade work, that she may not be ready for?

 

 

 

What I don't believe she is up to 5th grade work in is math and reading comprehension.

In math, she had a horrible 2nd grade teacher that didn't care that she made c's and d's on certain chapters b/c they were moving to a different topic soon and her grades would pick up. They did, but she didn't learn her addition/subtraction facts or borrowing/carrying rules. We spent that summer doing R&S Math 2 with great success. In 3rd grade, they only cared about what math was going to be on the state test. She did not learn her multiplication/division facts or pretty much anything new with math last year. She basically knew her 0,1,2, 5 and 10 family of mulitplication at the end of 3rd grade. Which she had been exposed to with R&S Math 2.

She tested in at Singapore Math 2B and worked through it well and tested out with the placement test. We just moved on to 3A around Halloween. It has been hard b/c she still doesn't have multiplication/division skills. We are taking it very, very slow and I have bought a lot of manipulatives. We tried R&S Math 3, but it was not a good fit. We are working through Singapore which seems to click eventually with the concrete to abstract method.

With reading comprehension, it is a little tricky. She is actually making good grades in Language Arts except in reading comprehension. She has a 92A Spelling, an 84C Grammer, a 98A Book Report, an 82C Penmanship, and a 68 F in reading comprehension. Her overall Language Arts grade is an 85C. I don't really understand. She taught herself to read at 3 and was reading on a 3rd grade level when she entered public school kindergarten. So I guess she knew what they were teaching and breezed through the reading in k-2nd and never fully got to the point that she learned to read for content and comprehension. She was always reading higher level books and had quickly completed the classroom work at public school. She tested just basic in reading comprehension last year on the state test.

So now we are home and it is obvious in her other subjects as well that she reads to get through with it and doesn't really read for content. Her math is a nightmare complete with tears and tantrums and she wants the public school math back b/c she could do poorly and then move on to a totally different topic and bring her grade back up and pass.

With reading, I think she just has never learned to slow down and process what she is reading.

She is failing history b/c of the reading comprehension issues. She does horrible on the comprehension questions. She is also failing Reading.

Here are her grades 1st quarter: Math 83 C, Reading, 68 F, Spelling 93 A, English/LA 85 C, Science 82 C, and History 68 F.

I am using the grading scale that the public school uses b/c we will probably switch from the private school option to the homestudy option in high school to be eligible for state grants. I am trying to follow the rules as if we were doing homestudy now so that when we go to switch it will be easily approved.

So with this background, should I just continue on her level in reading comprehension and math and move on up to 5th grade on paper?

[ElizabethB]

I've done a lot of remedial reading tutoring and I've never found a child that had a comprehension problem--all the parents who thought their children had reading comprehension problems actually had a phonics deficit.

 

You can fake your way to 3rd or 4th grade reading level with sight word memorization, beyond that you need a good solid phonics foundation and the ability to syllabicate words.

 

To teach this, I recommend my phonics lessons (linked below) or, at the end of my how to tutor page, I have links to the documents I use to teach groups of remedial elementary students. I recommend doing at least the syllable division exercises from this page even if you do my online phonics lessons.

 

I also recommend a before and after NRRF reading grade level test and the MWIA, they are on my reading test page. You give her the MWIA I if her NRRF grade level score is 2nd grade or below, the MWIA II if her NRRF grade level is 3rd grade or above. (Before and after some tutoring with phonics. You know the student is completely remediated when their MWIA scores are within 10% of each other in time. Also, you should not miss more than 1 word on the phonetic test when fully remediated.)

[Colleen in NS]

she didn't learn her addition/subtraction facts or borrowing/carrying rules.

 

She did not learn her multiplication/division facts

 

She tested in at Singapore Math 2B and worked through it well and tested out with the placement test. We just moved on to 3A around Halloween. It has been hard b/c she still doesn't have multiplication/division skills. We are taking it very, very slow and I have bought a lot of manipulatives. We tried R&S Math 3, but it was not a good fit. We are working through Singapore which seems to click eventually with the concrete to abstract method.

 

So...she did well with R&S 2, and with Singapore 2B, and now she's doing Singapore 3A, going slowly and using manipulatives. I would suggest that if you think Singapore is going well, that maybe just spend some time on memorizing the add/sub/mult/div facts alongside Singapore (I have no idea how Singapore does this). I just mention the memory work because you said she doesn't have mult/div skills - I wonder if getting all the fact memorized first would encourage the rest of the skills along - maybe she'd get more confident about the skills, knowing she could recall facts quickly? Work on them for a few weeks, then have a daily recitation time, with a bit at time, before doing the Singapore lesson.

 

With reading, I think she just has never learned to slow down and process what she is reading.

She is failing history b/c of the reading comprehension issues. She does horrible on the comprehension questions. She is also failing Reading.

Here are her grades 1st quarter: Math 83 C, Reading, 68 F, Spelling 93 A, English/LA 85 C, Science 82 C, and History 68 F.

I am using the grading scale that the public school uses b/c we will probably switch from the private school option to the homestudy option in high school to be eligible for state grants. I am trying to follow the rules as if we were doing homestudy now so that when we go to switch it will be easily approved.

So with this background, should I just continue on her level in reading comprehension and math and move on up to 5th grade on paper?

 

Reading comprehension - it sounds like you are using prepared comprehension questions from a text, in various content subjects? Are these questions about specific topics/incidents? If so, this is the kind of thing that can cause a young child to either rise up to the challenge of finding out specific answers, or completely tune out while reading, knowing she won't be able to answer the questions easily or because she doesn't care about the particular info. being asked about (have you asked her about this?).

 

Have you ever thought about doing narration instead, as a method of reading comprehension? If you do this, you can throw out those compr. questions, and work on true reading comprehension. It will cause her to think more clearly about what she's reading, and she can also focus on truly understanding the material, because there is room for her interests in narration. It's good to prepare kids for different types of learning situations when they get older (like studying from a boring text), but I think they are prepared for this kind of thing when they are younger, by doing narrations - it gives them time to learn how to dig into their reading, and gives them a chance to start putting answers into their own words that are meaningful to them (not to mention practicing grammar/writing skills in order to also communicate those thoughts clearly to other people). For this, I highly recommend either looking at narration methods in WTM, or using Writing With Ease (which spells out years' worth of WTM writing methods).

 

About those grades - I understand why you are keeping them, but I would caution against talking about grades with her for the time being - you are working right now on "fixing" some things from her previous experience, and you want to change things for the better - too much focus on grades might backfire. I don't think a young child can "fail" history or reading. They can only work on reading skills, and better their comprehension skills, and learn to enjoy reading more complex books. Narration helps this.

 

As for what to call her next year, sure, I'd call her a 5th grader because of her age and her close younger sibling. Besides, people like to know what grades our kids are in, and it's handy to be able to say. :D Like Ellie said, most of the time kids do jump ahead in leaps and bounds with their skills, when given time and teaching.

 

hth

 

EDIT: having just read Elizabeth's post - duh! Yes, how is her actual reading skill? Can she sound out new words? Can she read aloud to you smoothly? That should be solidified before any of the other things I mentioned. :)

Edited December 31, 2009 by Colleen in NS

[Tidbits of Learning]

I've done a lot of remedial reading tutoring and I've never found a child that had a comprehension problem--all the parents who thought their children had reading comprehension problems actually had a phonics deficit.

 

You can fake your way to 3rd or 4th grade reading level with sight word memorization, beyond that you need a good solid phonics foundation and the ability to syllabicate words.

 

To teach this, I recommend my phonics lessons (linked below) or, at the end of my how to tutor page, I have links to the documents I use to teach groups of remedial elementary students. I recommend doing at least the syllable division exercises from this page even if you do my online phonics lessons.

 

I also recommend a before and after NRRF reading grade level test and the MWIA, they are on my reading test page. You give her the MWIA I if her NRRF grade level score is 2nd grade or below, the MWIA II if her NRRF grade level is 3rd grade or above. (Before and after some tutoring with phonics. You know the student is completely remediated when their MWIA scores are within 10% of each other in time. Also, you should not miss more than 1 word on the phonetic test when fully remediated.)

 

She is an excellent reader, but I did do the tests. She scored great. She tested perfect on the NRRF test and tested 0 errors on the 8th grade Ben Hur and made 4 errors on the Sanders 10th grade level test. I didn't try the 12th grade level test b/c she made 4 errors on the 10th grade one.

On the MWIA, she scored Level II Holistic WPM 86 Phonetic WPM 84 with a 2% slow down. She only made 1 Holistic error and 1 Phonetic error and corrected the phonetic one with spelling for 100% Phonic Efficiency. She read Vote II with WPM 112 and 1 error on the word vital.

 

 

Reading comprehension - it sounds like you are using prepared comprehension questions from a text, in various content subjects? Are these questions about specific topics/incidents? If so, this is the kind of thing that can cause a young child to either rise up to the challenge of finding out specific answers, or completely tune out while reading, knowing she won't be able to answer the questions easily or because she doesn't care about the particular info. being asked about (have you asked her about this?).

 

We are using Christian Liberty Press's 4th grade which uses some ABeka Language A and Abeka's 4th grade science. We tried HOD over the summer and it was awful. She hated it and did not do well with narration at all. It was like pulling teeth and she would just stare at me.

She does great with the Abeka Science Comprehension questions. It is the reading and history that she just seems to hate and won't put in the effort to doing it properly.

 

 

Have you ever thought about doing narration instead, as a method of reading comprehension?

 

Yes, we did narration this whole summer and it was like torture for her and for me. She did not like it at all and would not really even attempt it. I would have to nudge her and basically give her scripted questions to even get an attempt out of her.

 

About those grades - I understand why you are keeping them, but I would caution against talking about grades with her for the time being - you are working right now on "fixing" some things from her previous experience, and you want to change things for the better - too much focus on grades might backfire. I don't think a young child can "fail" history or reading. They can only work on reading skills, and better their comprehension skills, and learn to enjoy reading more complex books. Narration helps this.

 

I agree that you can't truly fail reading or history. I don't think she is really progressing at this point in some things b/c of her lack of attempting to do them properly. She is very much still in the public school mindset and ways. She is used to doing the bare minimum and being one of the top students anyway. Textbooks seem to work for her for the most part.

I haven't focused on the grades with her, but when I sat down and did all 3 school age kids quaterly grades for their report cards and records...it was hard not to see her grades jump out at me.

 

As for what to call her next year, sure, I'd call her a 5th grader because of her age and her close younger sibling. Besides, people like to know what grades our kids are in, and it's handy to be able to say. :D Like Ellie said, most of the time kids do jump ahead in leaps and bounds with their skills, when given time and teaching.

 

I am hoping that she will have a miraculous aha moment and start putting in more effort with the work.

 

hth

 

EDIT: having just read Elizabeth's post - duh! Yes, how is her actual reading skill? Can she sound out new words? Can she read aloud to you smoothly? That should be solidified before any of the other things I mentioned. :)

 

Her reading skills are great. She can read as well as I can and has been able to for years. She reads new words smoothly. She is reading New Moon and has read Twilight. She has read the Harry Potter series as well as some of The Chronicles of Narnia. She is a great reader and loves to read. She loves the Warrior series.

She never learned with sight words and I even went through Developing Better Reading by R&S with her summer before last to make sure that b/c she had taught herself to read that it wasn't an issue. She didn't have any trouble with it at all and it's description is the phonetic trail to good reading pastures.

 

 

 

I really wonder if some of it is stubborn, lazy behavior. I know that she reads well and enjoys reading. Yet, if it is something that doesn't really turn her head then she speeds through it without caring about what she is actually reading.

I understand that math isn't her strong suit and that she needs to work on it, but reading is a strong suit and she reads at a much higher level than her reading comprehension would lead you to believe.

She tested at 54% nationally on reading for the ITBS. Her state test says that reading may need the most work but that she tests average when compared nationally. She scored mastery on English Language Arts on the national test. It is really confusing to me.

She was in an advanced reading class and didn't make below a B in public school on reading. In fact, last year was her first B on her report card and it was in reading.

I honestly just don't know what to do. I don't know whether it is an attitude issue and laziness or whether she really needs some help to learn how to take tests and answer these type questions.

 

It is so different being the one that makes the decision about how her work and effort really was this year than being a parent that listens to someone else tell you how your child did and you sign a paper.

I honestly believe some of her issues are immaturity and not really trying with the reading comprehension. Maybe we are just reading things that are truly uninteresting and not challenging to her.

 

I am willing to try more narration. Maybe I should have some way to ease into narration. I'll admit that I have never done it before trying HOD and it was so painful and she sat there looking glazed over and in a trance. We tried WWE3's trial and I believe that system could show progress. Maybe I should have started with WWE2 to get some of the skills needed to truly narrate well? I am just as lost as her as to what to do next.

 

Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. I am confident that she is capable of her grade level work. I have no idea why she is having difficulty.

Edited January 1, 2010 by OpenMinded

[Colleen in NS]

From everything you have written, she sounds like she doesn't have any glaring problems with learning. It sounds like, so far, the language arts side of things has come very easily to her, and that she is just operating under the only mindset she has known so far - read, give the test the answers it is looking for, and move on no matter what the score. She probably just needs to be shown a different way of learning - one that will require a different type of effort, but will be more satisfying. And you sound like you have a pretty good handle on her abilities - you say she reads well, and at higher levels, that she enjoys reading. The comprehension parts of those tests you keep mentioning, I'd guess, are just boring to her, and she's not learned yet how to dig for information in reading. You can teach this to her through interesting reading and narration (mainly so she learns how to learn, but the side benefit is that her comprehension scores will go up if those scores become important for some reason later on).

 

I would suggest that you do give her reading, esp. if she hates the history and literature curriculum that you have, that is interesting to her. You could use the curriculum as a guide for yourself, from which to pull topics of interest and search for library books she will like. Or you could branch out and decide what period of history and literature you would like to do for the rest of this year, and search for library books that way.

 

I'd definitely recommend giving WWE a serious look. You can use just the hardback version, and use the instructions in it with your library books. The hardback version contains all four levels, so you can take your time with figuring out where to start her. Heck, you could even start at level 1 if you thought it would be a nice easy start - you can always speed through it - just don't tell her it's grade 1, call it level 1. :) Or level whatever. The way WWE works is it gives you a pattern to use with the reading, so you take the skills learned in each section and apply them to the reading.

 

I used the WTM's version of narration instructions for four years, and we did OK with it, but WWE just made it soooooooo much easier - it told me exactly what to do and how to gradually increase skill levels every few weeks. It's so easy to use, and you don't have to move on to the next level or level-within-a-level until the student is ready.

 

Plus, the thing is, kids do a stop-start thing all the time. They might plod along in some skill, having difficulty, then suddenly they will leap ahead. Then slow down again, plodding, then leaping again. I think a lot of people are like that all through life - I am. So of course my kids are going to do that. That's why I like things like WWE, because I can conform it to the stops and starts.

 

So, yes, I would encourage you to give narration a try with WWE again. I think if you change the reading to things she likes and is challenged by (in a good way, not a frustrating way or boring way), and ease her into narration, you will start to see some changes. Even if you don't see changes on some comprehension part of a test this school year, you'll be preparing her for a lifetime of comprehension down the road, and it will probably show up in later tests.

 

EDIT: I hope this doesn't sound too jumbled - I am really tired and my kids are staying up til midnight for the first time ever, so they are roaming around and chatting, trying to stay awake.

Edited January 1, 2010 by Colleen in NS

[Tidbits of Learning]

I appreciate all of the advise and help. I am so glad that I posted. I wouldn't have looked back over all of her reading records in her file and her ITBS from last year. I wouldn't have tested her and realized that she reads on an 8th grade level.

Now if I could just make American History as interesting as the battles of feuding cat clans. You will laugh, but the test that she did the best on was about George Washington. She did so well b/c we have a Super Mario Bros. DVD that spoofs that time period and the battles.

I do think that she is in a slump with her learning and that just like other slumps she will come out the other side. I would never have thought about it this way had I not came here and posted and thought it through. I would still be looking at the grades and feeling like I failed her.

Thanks everyone for the perspective and help.

[Colleen in NS]

Now if I could just make American History as interesting as the battles of feuding cat clans.

 

I would still be looking at the grades and feeling like I failed her.

 

 

Just one more suggestion - have you read the WTM book? At least the grammar stage part? It gives you an overall picture of a good education through all the grades, then tells you how to implement each part, as you see fit. It might help you to make history more interesting, and to feel like a good educator instead of a failure. When I was starting out, I asked my teacher-mother about "curriculum" to use. She kept insisting I didn't need "curriculum", but I didn't really get what she meant until I read WTM. Now - I still need individual "curriculum" for teaching various skills (like math, grammar, Latin, reading, spelling, writing) because I didn't come into this knowing how to teach these skills myself. But it's really not about pass/fail when I use these books - it's about using them to teach skills, and moving forward as my kids are able. And it's not about implementing this entire graded curriculum and moving from grade to grade. It's a different mindset than my own experience of having been public schooled, but it's far more fulfilling and it gets superior results eventually. WTM really helped me see that.

 

Hang in there!:D

[robsiew]

Just one more suggestion - have you read the WTM book? At least the grammar stage part? It gives you an overall picture of a good education through all the grades, then tells you how to implement each part, as you see fit. It might help you to make history more interesting, and to feel like a good educator instead of a failure. When I was starting out, I asked my teacher-mother about "curriculum" to use. She kept insisting I didn't need "curriculum", but I didn't really get what she meant until I read WTM. Now - I still need individual "curriculum" for teaching various skills (like math, grammar, Latin, reading, spelling, writing) because I didn't come into this knowing how to teach these skills myself. But it's really not about pass/fail when I use these books - it's about using them to teach skills, and moving forward as my kids are able. And it's not about implementing this entire graded curriculum and moving from grade to grade. It's a different mindset than my own experience of having been public schooled, but it's far more fulfilling and it gets superior results eventually. WTM really helped me see that.

 

Hang in there!:D

:iagree:

I was a public school teacher and had to totally change mindsets when I started schooling at home. I LOVE this way of learning and could never go back to "public school" mentality... it takes time, but so freeing!! You will start to see a difference in your daughter the more she is able to relax and enjoy learning... not just passing or not passing tests.

[Narrow Gate Academy]

I would suggest changing the focus of her schoolwork from grades to mastering the material. In our school we use the following steps with any assignment.

 

1. Teach the lesson.

2. Complete the assigned independent work.

3. I mark the mistakes.

4. DC goes through the assignment a second time fixing the mistakes.

5. I recheck the assignment.

6. Anything that is still not correct, we work through together.

 

This reduces the number of careless mistakes in the work. The kids know that they will have to take additional time to correct their mistakes. They have learned that it is actually faster to do their work more carefully the first time through. If there are a large number of mistakes, then you may need to reteach the lesson the next day (I usually use a more hands on approach the second time) and provide some more time to practice. We have been known on occasion to repeat an entire section of a math book because I didn't feel the kids had mastered the material. I simply explained that they needed more practice and since math builds upon iteself, not mastering one section makes the other sections more difficult. Since this will be a big change for her, you might want to stick with just the core subjects for a couple of weeks until she is used to the new material.

 

For the math, I would stick with Singapore and just work at her own pace. Set up a separate time daily to work on drilling math facts. If she's getting the concepts and just lacks the fact memorization, then I would provide her a table where she can look up the facts during her lesson. You can always spend extra time over the summer making sure her facts are solid before the next year.

 

For reading, I would give narration another try. Start with short assignments. Aesop's fables are a good place to start. Have her read the fable, and then come tell you what it is about. Ask her questions to get her started if she needs help. (Who was the story about? What did so and so do first? What happened next? etc.) Lead her through a few times. You might have her read you a fable outloud, and then you narrate the story to her to model what you expect. Once she's comfortable with the narrations, then move on to more difficult material or longer selections.

 

To make history more interesting, why not provide her some good historical fiction that relates to what she's reading. You could read it aloud together, or just let her read it on her own for fun. We did American history last year. Feel free to pm me if you need some book ideas for a given topic.

 

HTH

[ElizabethB]

I'm glad to "meet" someone who actually did have a "comprehension" problem--but, as Colleen said, it actually sounds like boredom/paying attention, not comprehension!

 

I would suggest you let her help pick out some of the material you will be using and do something along the lines of WTM/TOG/MFW where you have a lot of freedom to pick different books and she can start using books that interest her and challenge her.

 

Also, for her annual testing in the future, I would give her incentive to pay attention to and do well on the tests--tell her she'll get extra work in the areas she does poorly on. You could also do this with the portion of her daily work that she finds "boring." More "boring" stuff will be assigned if she doesn't do assigned "boring" work to the best of her abilities. (I do this with whining about certain things my daughter doesn't like doing--whining means extra work in the area being whined about or a similar area if I don't have extra work readily available in that subject. It has been very effective in reducing whining!)

 

A certain amount of "boring" work has to be dealt with in life and in school, but it's also good to try to find as much material as possible that is interesting and exciting to work on, this is an area that I struggle trying to find a balance with as well.