help me help my son (incredibly long - sorry!)

[razorbackmama]

I feel like there is something awry with my almost 13yo son. My dh disagrees. He thinks it is all attitude and discipline issues. I would love it if he were right. So a friend suggested to me (hi Renee!:D ) that I post over here to see what y'all think. I have absolutely no idea where to go for help if he does need some.

 

Things with him were pretty much fine until he was around about 4th-ish grade, I think. My 2nd son had received a diagnosis of PDD-NOS when he was 4 (which I now believe to be an incorrect diagnosis, but at the time I was going off of what I was told, and it's all beside the point LOL), and my older son was always the "NT one.) Somewhere along the way though, over the past couple of years (he's in 7th grade right now) I realized that his reading comprehension absolutely STUNK. His comprehension of oral/auditory things has never been fantastic, but I always just assumed that it was a developmental thing - I would EXPECT a 2nd grader to comprehend some things that he hears, ya know? But as he got older, it just didn't seem to improve. He talks and asks questions through movies CONSTANTLY. We always assumed that he was just being annoying (you know how some people are LOL). But a couple years ago I started to wonder if he was doing that because he wasn't able to actually follow what was going on.

 

I started using Reading Detective to help with his reading comprehension. He bombs it, and it has not helped one bit.

 

He does not read much. He CAN. I do not suspect dyslexia. If he WERE to have dyslexia, it would have to be one of those really rare forms of it or something, because he has never given me a reason to suspect it. It's purely the connections involved in language in general.

 

So here are some of his issues currently:

1. Struggles with answering how/why questions. He has gotten soooooo much better, but at least half the time, if you ask him a "why" question, he will answer with a "how" answer, or vice versa. Like I said, I used to think this was a developmental thing, but now that he's almost 13, I figure he should not have this problem.

2. Vocabulary STINKS. We are working through Wordly Wise 3000. Too soon to tell if it's really helping. If he comes across an unfamiliar word in his reading (which is all.the.time.) he just totally breezes by the word. I've explained time and again to ASK or to look up the word in the dictionary.

3. He just doesn't comprehend stuff. Granted, I'm an adult, so I don't expect him to comprehend stuff that I do. But honestly there are times when his 9yo and *5*yo sisters comprehend conversations/situations better than he does.

4. I can SORT of have a conversation with him, but not for very long. He gets lost about halfway through unless I'm talking about Legos or ipods or something. And it's not so much that he's distracted/bored/rude...he just gets lost on what I'm saying.

5. He hyperfocuses on one particular part of the story/conversation rather than the main idea. I have read where Visualizing and Verbalizing can help with this, and we are using it this year. So far I haven't seen much improvement, but we aren't even halfway through yet, so I'm still hopeful.

6. He has greatly improved, but he still struggles with cause/effect things and finding the main idea.

 

Here are some examples that I typed out. They are of recent encounters.

But like today, for Writing With Ease he is to read a short passage in his book, I ask him a few comprehension questions about it, and then he gives me a 2-3 sentence summary. So he read a section in A Wrinkle in Time where Meg sees her father and runs toward him, but crashes into this invisible wall. The book says that she hit something "like a brick wall," and then Calvin goes on to explain that it's transparent like glass, but the book doesn't actually come out and say what it is. So here is what our conversation looked like:

 

Me: Meg ran toward the guy, but she hit something. What was it?

 

G: A brick wall.

 

Me: No, it wasn't a brick wall, but it FELT like a brick wall when she hit it.

 

G: (Pause)

 

Me: Whatever it was was transparent, like glass. It was see-through.

 

G: A mirror?

 

Me: We don't know what it is. I'm telling you the answer, not asking. The book doesn't say just what it was. It just says that whatever she hit was see-through like glass.

 

G: A window?

 

L, who is 9: Mom's not ASKING you; she's telling you the answer.

 

So between him not understanding what he read AND him not understanding what I was saying...I was about to pull my hair out!

 

That sort of interaction is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo typical. It could be ANYTHING. A movie he sees. A COMMERCIAL, for crying out loud. A conversation he hears. His science book that he reads. ANYTHING. It's like he's reading/speaking a completely foreign language.

 

I know he is frustrated too. One of the exercises in Wordly Wise is a little article that includes the vocabulary words from the unit, and then he has to answer questions about the passage. Some of them are as simple as "which definition of terrain was used in the passage?" He got almost every one wrong yesterday. As I went over it with him, I did find that he expects to be able to read the article and then just answer the questions without looking back at the article. Therefore, he was totally guessing wildly on many of the answers. But some of the answers just didn't even make SENSE. Like it asked something about the abundance of animals in Thailand, and he answered "crops." So yes, part of it is laziness/unwillingness to take the time to look up the answer. But a LOT of it is that he seems to not even know what the question is asking. And oh my word, if he answers a "how" question with a "because" answer one more time, I may scream. He cannot answer how/why questions to save his life. He ALWAYS answers a how question with a why answer and vice versa.

Today G had the following math problem:

Isaac noticed that one-fourth of the months of the year start with the same letter. Which letter is that and how many times does it appear?

 

He got the numeric answer correct - 3 months. But he totally did not understand the part about the months and the beginning letters. I explained that he needed to think about the names of the months. So THEN he wrote down January, February, and March (the 1st 3 months). So THEN I pointed him to J's chart of the months on the wall and told him to find 3 months that started with the same letter. He then said, "January, June, July." I said RIGHT, so WHAT LETTER IS THAT?

 

These are just 3 examples from school situations in the past month or so. But truly this extends to real life as well. He has struggled at times to follow what the neighborhood kids are telling him regarding the rules they are establishing for their little football games and such. He can HEAR them, but he just can't comprehend what they mean, if that makes sense.

 

So far, based on what research I've done, the closest thing I can come up with to describe what is going on is Language Processing Disorder. But even there, as I read the description...some of the criteria is most definitely yes. The others...eh...not so sure.

 

I have attempted to follow the same sort of path I took when I had my 2nd son evaulated. Since I wanted some sort of referral to a developmentalist or someone of that nature, I went to my doctor first. He happens to be an ADHD guru, and although I explained to the staff and him that I do not thing my ds has ADHD but something else, the doctor said, "Well he doens't have ADHD," and gave me the number of some ADHD testing lady in our local school district. Sigh. Just because it was another "step" of sorts or another contact, I called and left a message. Never heard back.

 

I tried calling the SLP department at our local university hospital. After explaining to the person just why I was calling and that no, I don't suspect an AUDITORY processing disorder, etc., I think I had to leave messages there too that were dead ends.

 

Basically it's like no one seems to know what I'm talking about.:confused:

 

Dianne Craft is about a 30-minute drive from me. I have considered taking him to her, but I'm not sure. I have her Brain Integration Therapy book, but I'm not sure it would help much. The stuff that it focuses on is more dyslexia-type issues. Maybe I need to reread it though. I don't know.

 

And then there is my husband. Like I said, he thinks this is all a "not trying hard enough" issue. So even if I HAD someone to go to for some sort of evaluation, I would have to jump the hurdle of getting dh to agree to it. (He was the somewhat the same way when we were getting our 2nd son evaluated, but at that point we had speech patholgists saying that something wasn't right with him...it wasn't just my opinion.)

 

I know I have left out a lot...please feel free to ask questions. I don't know what direction to go in, where to go for help, how to get people to actually help me rather than looking at me like I'm one of those people "looking" for something wrong with their child, etc.

 

I just want to help him. For one...I get so frustrated when he doesn't understand something that he SHOULD be able to. For another, the older he gets, the more of a gap there seems to be, and that is alarming to me. It's like he's hit this wall when it comes to overall comprehension, and he can't seem to get past it.:(

[LizzyBee]

As far as disorders, I don't know what to suggest other than possibly auditory processing disorder. I know you said you don't suspect APD, but two of my kids have APD, and some of his behavior does seem like APD. But it also sounds like there is more than APD going on, if not something else entirely. Will your dh agree to have him evaluated by a neuropsychologist if you get several people here saying you should? That's what I'd recommend.

 

If your dh won't agree to an NP evaluation, would he agree to a language evaluation by an SLP and an ADP evaluation by an audiologist? Those evaluations would help you start ruling certain things out or in. My dd8's last SLP eval was focused on language rather than speech, and I was surprised at how many areas were included in the eval, so maybe an SLP eval would be more helpful than you would expect. Maybe an SLP would recommend an NP eval and then perhaps your dh would agree to it.

Edited December 22, 2009 by LizzyBee

[jensway]

I can't be of much help. I don't recognize any of the situations you describe. I can tell you that it does not sound at all like my son who has aspergers syndrome.

 

I would try to get an eval from a neuro or maybe just start with an eval from the public school.

[razorbackmama]

As far as disorders, I don't know what to suggest other than possibly auditory processing disorder. I know you said you don't suspect APD, but two of my kids have APD, and some of his behavior does seem like APD. But it also sounds like there is more than APD going on, if not something else entirely. Will your dh agree to have him evaluated by a neuropsychologist if you get several people here saying you should? That's what I'd recommend.

 

If your dh won't agree to an NP evaluation, would he agree to a language evaluation by an SLP and an ADP evaluation by an audiologist? Those evaluations would help you start ruling certain things out or in. My dd8's last SLP eval was focused on language rather than speech, and I was surprised at how many areas were included in the eval, so maybe an SLP eval would be more helpful than you would expect. Maybe an SLP would recommend an NP eval and then perhaps your dh would agree to it.

 

I would faint dead away if my dh agreed to have him evaluated by ANYONE without a Super Long and Tense Discussion between the 2 of us.;) Truly he thinks it's either attitude or teaching methods/teacher.:001_huh: He also thinks that the solution is getting a farm so that ds doesn't have as much fruitless spare time on his hands.

 

I don't understand that one either LOL.

[razorbackmama]

I can't be of much help. I don't recognize any of the situations you describe. I can tell you that it does not sound at all like my son who has aspergers syndrome.

 

I would try to get an eval from a neuro or maybe just start with an eval from the public school.

 

Yeah, I'm quite familiar with Asperger's since that was one of the directions we were leaning with my 2nd son. DEFINITELY not the case with this kiddo.

[Mom0012]

Yeah, I'm quite familiar with Asperger's since that was one of the directions we were leaning with my 2nd son. DEFINITELY not the case with this kiddo.

 

If Diane Craft is so close, I would definitely meet with her. Even if she can't give you a label, she could probably direct you to professionals who could.

 

Lisa

[razorbackmama]

If Diane Craft is so close, I would definitely meet with her. Even if she can't give you a label, she could probably direct you to professionals who could.

 

Lisa

 

Now THAT is something I hadn't considered, but you're right! I've been focusing on her as sort of a "final destination" sort of evaluation rather than a stepping stone or some sort of resource. Thanks!

 

(Of course, getting him in to see her, which would require The Big Talk with dh...that will take some doing!:lol: )

[Laurie]

If Diane Craft is so close, I would definitely meet with her. Even if she can't give you a label, she could probably direct you to professionals who could.

 

 

 

This sounds like a good idea to me, too. I was just watching her dvd about struggling learners today, and one of the topics was auditory processing disorders. She said this is so difficult because it affects the person's whole life. He can't store and retrieve well at all, and the hallmarks of APD are anger and easily confused.

 

No wonder other people (including parents) might think this is just an attitude/behavior problem.

[razorbackmama]

This sounds like a good idea to me, too. I was just watching her dvd about struggling learners today, and one of the topics was auditory processing disorders. She said this is so difficult because it affects the person's whole life. He can't store and retrieve well at all, and the hallmarks of APD are anger and easily confused.

 

No wonder other people (including parents) might think this is just an attitude/behavior problem.

 

Interesting. My ds CAN be angry (but ahem, in his situation I think it's somewhat of a learned trait, if you catch my drift;) ), but when it comes to school stuff or the stuff he gets confused about, not really. Not sure if that makes any sense.

 

I think dh thinks it's attitude/lack of trying simply because he's not the one here during the day.;) I have explained to him a gazillion times that out of all of the kids, this is the one that actually sits down and does his work. He does struggle with "done is just as good as done properly":tongue_smilie: but yeah, his issues aren't due to a lack of trying. I think dh is assuming QUITE a bit and perhaps projecting how HE was as a child onto ds.;););) Because the stuff he comes up with as excuses for ds's behavior simply aren't there really.

 

BUT - easily confused - YES. And bless his heart, he usually doesn't even realize that he's confused.

 

Did her DVD happen to mention what to DO about it?

[Mandamom]

I know exactly what you are talking about. Currently, I am tutoring/instructing about 32 students and about 12 of these students have similar symptoms-- some milder and others more extreme.

 

At school we have an SLP to work with the students on language issues -- categorizing, sequencing, cause/effect, among many other topics and then the teachers/instructors continue to increase development of these same skills and coordinate it with intensive comprehension (using V/V) work. Many of these students can read individual words perfectly but have no idea what is happening. They can even read passages with words 2-4 grades higher. They struggle with concepts that are 2-3 years lower than you would expect. Conversations can be difficult.

 

And, yes, I would highly encourage you to get an evaluation done as quickly as possible.

 

Basically we use a lot of intensive work to improve language and it is a slow process.

 

As far as where you should go I think you need to keep making more phone calls. Ask around, contact local schools (specifically schools that are geared for the learning disabled population) for some names of people that might help you and ask around in your community.

 

BTW, I like this chart to differentiate APD and LPD

 

http://www.soundidears.com/aud_process_differ.html

 

Feel free to ask here or PM me if you want to chat.

[razorbackmama]

Thanks, Janice! I had previously found that same chart. Oddly enough, he has traits of both, but not all. SIGH.

 

Maybe in my spare time once my baby is born:lol::lol::lol: I can do some calling around.

 

Does it sound like I'm on the right track as far as "home intervention" goes - with the intensive vocabulary work and V/V?

[Guest Julie in WI]

I've been researching this and it looks fascinating. They basically look to the root causes of weak neurological systems and gently strengthen them. This impacts language processing as well as visual & adhd type issues, among others. I think the site is http://www.handle.org. Check out some of the case histories. Quite amazing.

Blessings to you & your family,

Julie

[Laurie]

 

Did her DVD happen to mention what to DO about it?

 

I only watched the first dvd today so more of the strategies are to follow. During the overview of APD she talked about the importance of oils in the diet and that the oil part of wheat germ does something good like coating the nerve endings. She said boys especially tend to have essential fatty acid deficiencies. Good oils, the lecithin in eggs, and drinking plenty of water were recommended for optimal brain function.

 

Getting an evaluation with an audiologist was the first step she recommended just to rule out hearing problems.

 

Does your ds have to read things out loud in order to understand? This was another sign that she talked about.

[sparrow]

:grouphug: Your son sounds a lot like mine, so I understand how you feel. I also understand the feeling when younger siblings try to "translate" questions for their older sib. It doesn't seem to bother ds, but *I* feel bad for him :(.

 

Unfortunately, I can't offer any help on what he could be dealing with as we're waiting to find out for our own 9 yo. We bit the bullet and contacted our school system. I am SO glad we did. They have been nothing but helpful, caring, and understanding. My ds is all over the map, but it sounds like he will end up with some sort of processing disorder diagnosis, most likely APD. The educational psychologist said he is finishing his report over the holidays and has about 20 pages. I asked if that was typical and he said it's about double the average LD report:001_unsure:. Have you contacted your school system?

[Mandamom]

Thanks, Janice! I had previously found that same chart. Oddly enough, he has traits of both, but not all. SIGH.

 

Maybe in my spare time once my baby is born:lol::lol::lol: I can do some calling around.

 

Does it sound like I'm on the right track as far as "home intervention" goes - with the intensive vocabulary work and V/V?

 

Well, I think with learning disabilities they don't have to match each and every symptom, especially if both can exist at the same time.

 

As far as what you are doing -- it sounds about right. Just make sure that you use the techniques in V/V in all reading that you are doing. Make sure that he can describe what is going on even without you asking questions (basically narration). Just make sure that he can talk about and describe many common objects (things that you might think he knows but really doesn't). Also, make sure that you have him describe the world around him and make sure he knows what everything is. One of my 7th grade students had no idea what a bush was. We went outside and talked about it in detail. His dad was really surprised.

 

Regarding vocabulary make sure that he can put the item into a category when telling you what a word means. Frequently I find that students will define the word bird by saying "it flies around" and I'll respond with "oh, do you mean an airplane". Once they learn about categories they have to say "an animal that flies and has a beak and 2 feet" or something like that.

 

Regarding the reading comprehension piece, have him describe the scenes you are reading rather than just depending on waiting for you to ask him questions. If you find that this is too hard for him you'll be better off lowering the reading level in order for him to do a good description/narration. My one 7th grade student had to drop down to a 1st grade level so that he could learn how to get the material from the page to his brain so that he could make sense of it. In time we have made a lot of progress but it has been slow. I also use google images and photography books to pull pictures of things that he's unsure about. In addition, sometimes just sitting and talking about pictures in books can be a great way to increase language -- have him do the talking.

 

It sounds like you are doing well with him. Keep up the good work.

[ChristusG]

It sounds so much like auditory processing disorder to me. My cousin's DD has it. She is 9 years old and went through therapy. Not only is she improving education-wise, but her attitude is also improving (she was very frustrated with everything because she was not hearing it correctly). I reserched APD for a bit when I thought my DD5 may have it. But now I'm almost 100% sure she has OCD with some tics thrown in.

 

I just wanted to let you know that I know how it is with your husband. My husband worries about NOTHING health-wise. He'll worry himself to death over things like money and budgets, but when it comes to health (physical, mental, emotional) he just blows it all off. I'm trying to convince him that DD5 NEEDS some sort of therapy. He keeps saying "Well, there's no guarantee that it will help, it will cost a lot of money, blah blah blah." And I keep saying that we have to at least TRY therapy. We cannot just ship her off into adulthood one day without trying to help her. UGH!

[msjones]

I am not a special needs expert, but have tutored and taught a lot of kids, so maybe I can help a little.

 

I have seen kids benefit from a lot of modeling. Often, they aren't quite sure how a 'good' answer would look, so they're just stuck.

 

With math story problems, many kids need to see a LOT of examples before they can speak/write out the answer. Anytime the child needs to "explain their thinking" for math, I try to give many examples before requiring the child to do the problem. By many, I mean at least 3, but sometimes more like 5.

 

With a program like WWE, the model answers are already there. Try reading the possible answers to your son, and then having him say them in his own words. Or, read several of the passages and have him just listen to the correct answers -- don't have him do any answering. Or, maybe he could just one or two. Do this sort of modeling/demonstrating for some time --maybe a few weeks-- prior to requiring independence.

 

I think we often think kids know what to do just because we told them to do it. Really, they may need to see it done for a while before they can jump in and do it themselves.

 

My mantra -- especially with the kids I tutor -- is "I do it. We do it. Then, finally, you do it." But often, it looks more like, "I do it. I do it. I do it. We do it. We do it. We do it. We do it. Then, finally, you do it."

 

Obviously, I don't know your boy, or how you teach, and you may have already tried this approach.

 

But I have seen enormous improvement from many students just by providing LOTS of demonstration and supported practice before requiring the child to work independently.

[Laurie4b]

When a parent prefers that the explanation is attitude/behavior, it is often that they would be really grieved to find out there is something "not normal" about their child--and it is a grief for each of us to find that our precious kiddo is having to deal with something "different." An attitude/behavior problem is something that helps the parent feel more in control, there is someone to "blame" (which helps human beings feel less helpless, etc.) and something that can supposedly be done about it. That is easier for a lot of people to take than to confront the unknown diagnosis. People with issues do this themselves. You'll find kids saying, "I just don't like that subject." Or "I don't really try all that hard," etc. to avoid what is to them the shame of saying, "I can't! I have tried and it's really hard for me." So your dh's reaction is not abnormal, but it is unhelpful. It might help you to think through what is motivating him to not want to know in terms of how you approach him.

 

Also think of what it is like for your ds. He has more struggles than others yet constantly frustrates you (not blaming here--BTDT) and Dad is saying he's "bad". That's a double burden to bear. My son, at age 8, after completing OT wrote a note to the OT: "I used to think I was a bad boy, but now I'm a joy boy." He thought he was bad because he was always getting in trouble for stuff he couldn't help, but which looked like disobedience to us. He was so relieved to find out that he had something that other kids had and which he could overcome. We were so glad to be able to understand and to give him what he needed, but of course felt guilty for the times he'd been disciplined for essentially things he couldn't have helped.

 

I see that you have limited amount of time right now--I'd put that time into first getting an evaluation, because until you know what you're dealing with you can spin your wheels with curriculum, etc. Given what you describe, I would first try the local school system. You must do this in writing. Write a letter to the director of exceptional children (or the equivalent title) in your school district, stating that you believe that your child has a problem with language processing or specific learning disability that is keeping him from achieving on grade level. Specifically request an evaluation to determine if he has special needs. In most areas of the country, the school districts will included students not enrolled in public schools in this free service.

 

If you don't want to go through the schools, given the issues you've stated, I would seek out a speech and language pathologist. If you don't have recommendations for a good one, I would call around and describe the issues and judge by the person's response who to take him to. (Hopefully, you can get beyond the receptionist!) You can also ask the offices who else in the area they would recommend in case insurance would cover one not the other. (And then you also get an idea of who the other SLP's think is good.)

 

I would generally recommend a neuropsychologist, but this sounds very connected to language-processing in some way or another.

[razorbackmama]

Sorry I'm just now getting to reply to this. Shortly after I posted my 5yo's appendix ruptured and then I had a baby. Kind of CRAZY around here for a while!!!

 

I'm going to be the odd one here, but I didn't see anything needing diagnosis! I have a ds13, and a neurologist once told me that the fact that a child can recall info and talk about subjects of interest usually means that they're fine. The mind is in transition at the pre-teen/teen stage (he was 11 at the time) and they sometimes have what we may have experienced as "pregnancy brain": forgetful spaciness. If they aren't real interested in the subject, it's especially bad!

 

This goes beyond that, and it has been going on for several years.

 

Oh, one more thing, might I suggest that you be real careful to not show your exasperation? If you're *rolling your eyes* and sighing heavily when he doesn't answer the way you want him to/expect him to be able to, he'll probably pick up the thought that he's stupid and mentally defective. I learned that the hard way. Just a thought.

 

I almost NEVER show my frustration. I did put my head down on my desk the other day after he read a passage and then proceeded to tell me that the main idea of it was exactly the OPPOSITE of what it really was. But I told him immediately that I was not frustrated with him, HE did nothing wrong, etc. I was frustrated because I want to help him and I don't know how. I'm frustrated with MY inability.

 

I just wanted to let you know that I know how it is with your husband. My husband worries about NOTHING health-wise. He'll worry himself to death over things like money and budgets, but when it comes to health (physical, mental, emotional) he just blows it all off. I'm trying to convince him that DD5 NEEDS some sort of therapy. He keeps saying "Well, there's no guarantee that it will help, it will cost a lot of money, blah blah blah." And I keep saying that we have to at least TRY therapy. We cannot just ship her off into adulthood one day without trying to help her. UGH!

 

Exactly. And boy you've nailed it with the health thing too. I am EXTREMELY laid back when it comes to health issues. I've got 7 kids, and we've been to the ER 3 times ever. We almost NEVER go to sick child visits. Etc. But when my 5yo's appendix ruptured, my dh was thinking I was totally wasting my time by taking her to the dr. because he just knew she just had a stomach virus. When I called him from the ER telling him that the doc thought it was her appendix, he said that he would be absolutely SHOCKED if it were her appendix. Needless to say, he ate some crow on that one.;)

 

So yeah, that's exactly the same sort of situation that's going on here. And it's frustrating...I am not one to panic or to diagnose my kids with everything under the sun (already been down that road with my "PDD-NOS" kid who doesn't really have it!), but yes, I suspect that there is something going on with my oldest.

 

Also think of what it is like for your ds. He has more struggles than others yet constantly frustrates you (not blaming here--BTDT) and Dad is saying he's "bad". That's a double burden to bear. My son, at age 8, after completing OT wrote a note to the OT: "I used to think I was a bad boy, but now I'm a joy boy." He thought he was bad because he was always getting in trouble for stuff he couldn't help, but which looked like disobedience to us. He was so relieved to find out that he had something that other kids had and which he could overcome. We were so glad to be able to understand and to give him what he needed, but of course felt guilty for the times he'd been disciplined for essentially things he couldn't have helped.

 

Yes. I try desperately to hide my frustration from him because of that very reason. Dh...not so much. When we got ds's Iowa scores back, it wasn't pretty.:(

 

I see that you have limited amount of time right now--I'd put that time into first getting an evaluation, because until you know what you're dealing with you can spin your wheels with curriculum, etc. Given what you describe, I would first try the local school system. You must do this in writing. Write a letter to the director of exceptional children (or the equivalent title) in your school district, stating that you believe that your child has a problem with language processing or specific learning disability that is keeping him from achieving on grade level. Specifically request an evaluation to determine if he has special needs. In most areas of the country, the school districts will included students not enrolled in public schools in this free service.

 

This helps TREMENDOUSLY!

 

If you don't want to go through the schools, given the issues you've stated, I would seek out a speech and language pathologist. If you don't have recommendations for a good one, I would call around and describe the issues and judge by the person's response who to take him to. (Hopefully, you can get beyond the receptionist!) You can also ask the offices who else in the area they would recommend in case insurance would cover one not the other. (And then you also get an idea of who the other SLP's think is good.)

 

I would generally recommend a neuropsychologist, but this sounds very connected to language-processing in some way or another.

 

Thanks for this as well!

[Guest]

I think you should trust your observations and opinions about your son. As you said, he's 13; there aren't that many years at home left to untangle whatever is going awry in his brain. It must be so frustrating to watch him struggle -- and to struggle so much yourself -- and not be understood by your husband. I really sympathize with you and your son both.

 

Regardless of how much you dread The Talk, however, you need to get this child a formal evaluation: if you need to go through the school system because it would be free/cheap, do that. If you can possibly afford a neuropsychologist, I strongly recommend that. At age eleven my daughter had a very extensive evaluation that pinpointed a number of processing difficulties, and then the neuropsych wrote up a long, multi-page plan, a string of suggested therapies (we didn't do many of them due to cost, but still it was a great road-map), books to read, etc. It was well worth the money; I'm still going on the recommendations and insights three years down the road.

 

It is terribly difficult when parents don't agree on what should be done, but it would be more terrible for your son to go out into the world at age eighteen or thereabouts not understanding the nature of his difficulties and not knowing what to do about them.

[Georgia On My Mind]

Hi,

I've read all the posts on this thread and new baby and appendicitis, whew! I am imaging your head spinning around like the girl in the Exorcist I (just dated myself-hated that movie and wouldn't recommend it to anyone but the picture sticks). Thank God that His grace is sufficient for each day and new each day so you will never run our for your son, new baby or hubby. PTL

 

That said, I have been on both sides of the fence. I am a former teacher, principal and now a educational therapist. As a therapist we heavily depend on the reports we get from the ps (if they are done by educational psychologists) and our most favorite are from good neurepsychologists. Your son sounds like he has many processing weaknesses and probably many strengths you haven't even noticed.

 

Have the "talk" and present all your scenarios and tell him of all the professional opinions as well as the non-professional opinions you received from the hive.

 

As principal and teacher, I often had to tell parents that we were going to need to refer their child for evaluation. We always used the neutral term "learning differences" instead of "learning disabilities" which is more easily swallowed by the dads. Dads, for some reason, always take a child's suspected disabilites as their personal fault. It seems they think there is something they did wrong or they may even identify with some of the problems the child is encountering and I thought you might identify with that aspect. The dad was always defensive and left my office with a really hurt, sad, mad or angry look on his face. Later on when the evaluation has been done and we had the IEP meeting, he would be entirely different (mostly releived to know what was amiss) but often thankful for bringing the problem to their attention. As therapist, I was several rungs down the ladder and but still had to have a similar meeting with the parents and once again the dads would think any disorder was their fault.

 

I just thought this might help from another standpoint. There is help for you son and God will make a way since "he is fearfully and wonderfully made and a marvelous work of the Lord.........."

 

Love and prayers,

Carolyn

[razorbackmama]

Yes, the thought of him going to college scares me to death. And not in the normal "my first baby!!!!" sort of way. Not only do I think he wouldn't do well academically, I think he would be totally confused socially.

 

I do have a question about evaluations...*if* there really isn't anything wrong with him, *if* it is just a matter of him not trying very hard or just being 12...would they tell us that? Or would they potentially "find" something wrong with him even if there isn't? That may be part of my dh's fear, and honestly I can understand that as well. I do think there is a higher risk of that happening with some of the more alternative theories (I've heard of it happening - parents have their NT children evaluated along with their dc with issues, and the NT kids end up with some sort of therapy as well because some random quirk was discovered), but what is the risk of that happening with a more traditional approach? Also keep in mind that my 2nd son was mistakenly diagnosed with PDD-NOS (unless you can, in fact, grow out of it, which I don't think you can), so that probably fuels our concern a bit.

 

I will talk more with dh and do some research as to what is available to us here. We have an awesome children's hospital (learned the hard way that it's awesome LOL) that is only 15 min. away, so perhaps they might have some resources available to us.

 

Does insurance typically cover this sort of thing? Like if he were to see a neuropsychologist, would it be under mental health benefits?:confused:

[razorbackmama]

Hi,

I've read all the posts on this thread and new baby and appendicitis, whew! I am imaging your head spinning around like the girl in the Exorcist I (just dated myself-hated that movie and wouldn't recommend it to anyone but the picture sticks).

 

Yes, that's it exactly! LOL!

 

It seems they think there is something they did wrong or they may even identify with some of the problems the child is encountering and I thought you might identify with that aspect.

 

YES! And interestingly, there have often been times when I've told dh something that ds has done, and he's like :confused: I did the same thing. (Which explains a LOT!:lol: )

[mcconnellboys]

It sounds like APD to me, too. And this usually goes along with sensory processing and perhaps other things, as well.

[Guest]

Regarding your concerns about whether you'd get an honest evaluation of true neurological problems vs. typical problems -- I think what you have described already goes beyond what is just the norm. But, this said, I wouldn't just walk into an evaluation without doing research.

 

I had several referrals (from pediatrician, OT, and educational psychologist) and I looked up each person's background, their education, what they said on their websites, whether they gave references. I e-mailed each and asked to meet with them individually first and ask about the testing process. They usually do this anyway, discuss the whole procedure and tell you what they can find etc., but by asking I found out which ones were most willing to deal with my questions as a parent and who tended to blow me off or wanted me to sign up with them for the whole thing first before they explained anything. You can ask specifically what their view is about "quirkiness" and normal age variations vs. true neurological problems, how they tell, what tests would pinpoint this; ask this even in your first contact e-mail or phone call.

 

I am thinking, too, that you could speak frankly about your husband's resistance right up front. If you've found a good practitioner, they will meet with him too, explain the process, show how they get detailed evidence and how they evaluate it.

 

What I have found through my own experience: the autism psychologist we went to first was, I feel now, too quick to identify my daughter as being on the spectrum (Asperger's). I felt like she saw Asperger's everywhere. The later, WAY more thorough neuropsych testing (eleven hours total, spread over a few days) was far more convincing to me because it was so specific and precise regarding exactly what processes weren't working well and where her amazing strengths were. What I got was a very detailed neurological and learning profile which was far more useful in helping me to find the best ways to teach my child. The final report was 28 single-spaced pages, overwhelming at first, but it has proven a long-term road map I still use now, three years later. (The downside is that it was tremendously expensive and our insurance company refused to pay for it.)

 

I can't imagine how you are handling this all with a new baby and all the other upheavals you describe. Best wishes in all areas.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Guest

[razorbackmama]

Thank you, KarenAnne! That was very helpful!

[cathmom]

That's interesting about the dads taking it personally - my dh did when our dd was diagnosed with dyslexia, but I thought it was because he felt that he gave it to her (he has it too). I didn't realize that it was very common for dads to feel this way!

 

Looks like you are getting some great suggestions here, razorbackmama! :)

[razorbackmama]

That's interesting about the dads taking it personally - my dh did when our dd was diagnosed with dyslexia, but I thought it was because he felt that he gave it to her (he has it too). I didn't realize that it was very common for dads to feel this way!

I wonder if that plays a minor role as well, especially since dh sees many of the same things in himself. What if something is wrong with him too, ya know?

 

But considering he's got a doctorate, I don't think it hindered him too much.:lol:

[Jenny Piaaree]

I feel so much for you in all your frustration and wish I could be of more help. My son (15yo) has had similar problems - not "getting" things that happen in movies, being slow to pick up on jokes or the flow of conversations. Not sure if this applies in your ds's case, but mine also has poor physical coordination. He can't snap his fingers, whistle, or blow bubbles with bubble gum; his 9yo sister can do all of those things. (And has been able to for years.) He doesn't say this, but I know that he doesn't try to learn them because he is afraid he won't be able to. He is somewhat socially awkward as well. It crushes me when people respond so positively to his sister and not to him. Thankfully, he has made a lot of improvement over time.

 

His pediatrician and the psychologist wanted to give a quick diagnosis of ADHD, but I knew that wasn't so. I never did get an answer, but the closest thing I ever found to describing him was the book The Out of Sync Child, which is about sensory integration dysfunction.

 

The only thing I can offer is to reassure you that 1) you are not alone. 2) You are right to trust your instincts. My dh has also been unresponsive in this and other health-related issues. But you are the one who is with your son and works closely with him. And (don't mean to offend all you dads out there), somehow moms just have a connection with their children. We know.

 

Others are much more qualified than I am to offer suggestions as what course to pursue. I do know that if sensory integration (which sounds like it's related to other processing disorders mentioned) is an issue, an occupational therapist is the one to see.

 

Best, best wishes to you and your son and your family. People are resilient; your son will find his way.

 

 

Jennifer

[razorbackmama]

Thanks, Jennifer! It does sound like our sons are a lot alike, except that mine is quite athletic and social. HOWEVER, I have often wondered just how much he's able to participate in social groups simply because he's not able to fully comprehend what is going on or what is being talked about. He has told me about conversations afterward, and I've had to decipher them for him. I don't know if the other kids pick up on his cluelessness or not.

 

I actually own The Out of Sync Child. AWESOME book!:D I'm not sure if anything really relates to him. But I haven't read it in YEARS (since probably when we were working on getting evals for my 2nd son, so about 7-8 years ago???), so I just might get it out and reread (or at least skim) to see if anything jumps out at me about my oldest. Thanks for the reminder!

[merry gardens]

Sorry I'm just now getting to reply to this. Shortly after I posted my 5yo's appendix ruptured and then I had a baby. Kind of CRAZY around here for a while!!!!....

:grouphug: and

Congratulations on the new baby!

 

I just read through the thread. I know it's nice to get a diagnosis that clearly says "this is the problem and this is how to fix it and/or deal with it." But it's not always easy to get that. Some of what you wrote makes me suspect there may be some underlying auditory processing component going on with your 13 yo. Maybe he was not hearing the /j/ sound in January, June and July. Auditory processing problems can get in the way of developing one's vocabulary. It can contribute to other learning problems, or exist along with other learning problems, making it more difficult to determine what exactly is going on.

[cathmom]

He can't snap his fingers, whistle, or blow bubbles with bubble gum; his 9yo sister can do all of those things. (And has been able to for years.)

 

 

 

Jennifer

 

I've read that being able to snap your fingers is genetic. I can't snap mine.

[siloam]

I have no real advice I can commiserate a little. My ds is convinced it is a matter of time till our medical records are online, which will make it much more difficult to control who knows about it (he used to work Internet Security, and is not impressed). Basically he doesn't want the kids diagnosed with anything because it might make life difficult for them later, when employers might be able to dig that sort of stuff up. He isn't cynical at all. :D

 

The hard thing is I think he is the least reasonable about issues which he himself had dealt with...not that he isn't sympathetic, but us hsing is the fix. It goes back to the, "I had to walk to school in the snow with bare feet and I didn't complain." mentality. He has improved the situation for his kids by providing the means to hs. Because he managed in a less ideal situation it is like the rest is up to them. He really is a good Father, and a good man, but this is one area we butt heads on.

 

He is right that they could certainly be worse off. It is just hard on me to always be second guessing what the problems are/might be and how to best reach them. I so long for a program to just, "fix it!" Logically I am not sure there is such a thing. Previous experience says that slow and steady work is what gets you there. Slow and stead just gets old.

 

On a practical note, when Pumpkin isn't able to answer a question correctly, I generally go back to the story and re-read the sentence or two that gives her the answer. Yes, there have been days when I had to re-read it more than once, especially at first. It is good to be reminded how far she has come, because on average I would say I re-read 75% less than when we started WWE. I also try to not directly say that they got anything wrong. In the case of the brick wall I would have answered something like, "You are right, that she said it FELT like a brick wall, but what did it look like? Let me read that part again and see if you can catch it." Of course we all have days when it is very difficult to actually respond the way we should. I am not having one of those days today. :blink: (And I don't love sarcasm either.)

 

Mostly I keep plodding along hoping that over the long haul things work out...

 

Heather (Who can't wait for Wednesday, because it has to go better than today.)