S/O How Does Your DH Feel About Extended BF?

[IsabelC]

The reason I posted this was because my DH feels that by the time the child is old enough to ask for it, then he/she is too old to receive it. He wants our kids weaned by their 1st birthday. His own mom weaned his brother at 4 mos when she returned to her FT teaching position. My mom, by contrast, nursed my youngest brother until he was 2. So I grew up thinking that nursing a toddler is normal, while he grew up with the norm of nursing only infants.

Infants only is normal (statistically speaking) in the US. But for the whole world, average weaning age is 4.2 years. It might be worth exploring with your dh why he thinks earlier weaning is better. Then you can address any specific concerns he might have. Or just tell him he's lucky that you will be doing the breastfeeding, because in some cultures it is customary for a father to offer his nipple as a pacifier if the mother is not in the room.:lol:

 

Seriously, I don't get the "if they can ask, they're too old" thing. First, because even newborns 'ask' in a way. Second, breastfeeding has very little to do with talking, except that artificially fed children are slightly more likely to have speech problem. Although maybe if they can ask in writing, in three or more languages, it would make more sense?

Edited December 18, 2009 by Hotdrink

[smrtmama]

Does he know that the World Health Organization recommends babies nurse for 2 years (they really need all the help in the myelination of their brains as they come up to age two). Baby's IQ goes up more the longer they breastfeed. First decent link I found: http://www.enotalone.com/article/3603.html

A mini-class in college I took talked about how the myelination explodes right before age two as they develop a bunch of new pathways. And breastmilk helps with that a lot.

 

That's for AT LEAST two years!

[Rosie_0801]

Maybe dh and I are the only ones on earth that think that sort of physical connection between an adult and child could be abused?

 

No you aren't. I've heard the same, but only from people who've never breastfed (like men ;) ) It beats me how anyone could breastfeed for the "wrong reasons" but then it's not something I much like doing anyway.

 

If so, they have obviously never nursed a toddler... :lol:

What she said :blink::D

 

The reason I posted this was because my DH feels that by the time the child is old enough to ask for it, then he/she is too old to receive it.

Careful what you wish for. I used to feel that once a kiddie could ask in a full sentence, they were too old for me to be comfortable. You know what karma has done, don't you? My dd is over 2 1/2 and rarely even uses two word sentences, heheh.

 

Rosie

Edited December 18, 2009 by Rosie_0801

[Lovedtodeath]

My DH started out uncomfortable with the idea, but you get used to it as your child grows.

 

We had an understanding that it was up to me, after all, I am the one breastfeeding, I am the one who has knowledge on the subject, and I am the one who does the research. WHO recommends 3 years old and research has shown immune benefit for over 5 years. Now if someone gives me a hard time that I am "keeping him a baby" Dh will speak up and say "What's wrong with that? He is 2. He is our last baby." I told him that I had decided not to pursue weaning b/c he just nurses to help him get to sleep and he said, "He is just a little guy, I see no reason to wean him." Did I mention how in love with my DH I am?

 

Unfortunately my doctor and my body both have something else to say, and I have tried the route of milder breastmilk friendly meds and it isn't working, so we only have a week left.:glare:

[bunnytracks]

my husband never cared.

[IsabelC]

Unfortunately my doctor and my body both have something else to say, and I have tried the route of milder breastmilk friendly meds and it isn't working, so we only have a week left.:glare:

Sorry to hear that you are having to wean earlier than you'd like. Have you got a second (and a third) opinion? Because tbh, the vast majority of health professionals are appallingly ignorant about breastfeeding, and I very often hear of moms being told to wean because of medication when it's not really necessary.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

Sorry to hear that you are having to wean earlier than you'd like. Have you got a second (and a third) opinion? Because tbh, the vast majority of health professionals are appallingly ignorant about breastfeeding, and I very often hear of moms being told to wean because of medication when it's not really necessary.

Oh yes, I know. Thank you. This is Jake's ND who actually tested him to see if he could tolerate my natural medicine and also searched for alternatives. I am wondering if I can wean him for a month and then go back to nursing... but that seems like a bad idea at this point.

[IsabelC]

Oh yes, I know. Thank you. This is Jake's ND who actually tested him to see if he could tolerate my natural medicine and also searched for alternatives. I am wondering if I can wean him for a month and then go back to nursing... but that seems like a bad idea at this point.

You certainly can relactate after a month if you want to. However you may well find that by the time the month is up, he has lost interest in it. For a baby I would encourage them to get back onto the breast, but for a child over two who is eating well, I probably wouldn't bother if he seems fine without it.

[LittleIzumi]

Oh yes, I know. Thank you. This is Jake's ND who actually tested him to see if he could tolerate my natural medicine and also searched for alternatives. I am wondering if I can wean him for a month and then go back to nursing... but that seems like a bad idea at this point.

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: A lot of meds can be used (carefully) while bfing too. I hope you can find something that works!

[Lovedtodeath]

 

but for a child over two I probably wouldn't bother if he seems fine without it.

Yes, but his mommy (the poor thing) is crying every time he falls asleep! ;)

[Thea]

Scoff? I am seriously shocked that anyone would imply a mom would breastfeed for her own personal gratification.

 

Maybe dh and I are the only ones on earth that think that sort of physical connection between an adult and child could be abused?

 

I am aware of cases of dc who are in the foster care system and have breastfed well beyond the ages mentioned here. A mother breastfeeding her 13 yo ds or an adoptive Mom attempted to lactate and breastfeed her newly adopted 10 yo. Perhaps lionfamily is aware of cases such as these?

 

And, ftr, I am NOT equating the above with what is being said in this thread.

[6packofun]

You all realize, right, that not everyone thinks WHO is the quintessential source for information on how to raise our children (or other health matters) so that might not be the source that changes one's mind? lol How did they reach that conclusion, btw? I've always been curious about how *any* organization decides what's best on this. (And I'm pro-breastfeeding, so please don't get annoyed with my asking!)

 

I'm curious about what well-done medical studies have said about breastfeeding beyond the first year or two. Do we assume that a child is healthier in a sort of non-quantifiable (or fuzzy math) type of way because they breastfeed longer...sort of like the way it's said we've "saved X-amount of jobs" by all of the stimulus money being spent or what? Or is it really simply that there are no longer any significant health benefits when a child is 3-years old and getting real, whole foods but there isn't any *negative* result and mommy and child still want to nurse so we say it's better? (Because it's OK to say that, isn't it?) I really want to know which it is. Or do most extended nursers do it for non-health reasons in the first place? Sorry, maybe I should do a poll! LOL

[LittleIzumi]

 

I'm curious about what well-done medical studies have said about breastfeeding beyond the first year or two. Do we assume that a child is healthier in a sort of non-quantifiable (or fuzzy math) type of way because they breastfeed longer...

 

You want references? Okay! :lol: For a start, from http://www.kellymom.com/bf/bfextended/ebf-benefits.html with studies and references mentioned specifically and some numbers in there, too:

 

Nursing toddlers benefit NUTRITIONALLY

• Although there has been little research done on children who breastfeed beyond the age of two, the available information indicates that breastfeeding continues to be a valuable source of nutrition and disease protection for as long as breastfeeding continues.
  

 

• "Human milk expressed by mothers who have been lactating for >1 year has significantly increased fat and energy contents, compared with milk expressed by women who have been lactating for shorter periods. During prolonged lactation, the fat energy contribution of breast milk to the infant diet might be significant."
  -- Mandel 2005
  

 

• "Breast milk continues to provide substantial amounts of key nutrients well beyond the first year of life, especially protein, fat, and most vitamins."
  -- Dewey 2001
  

 

• In the second year (12-23 months), 448 mL of breastmilk provides:
  
  • 29% of energy requirements
    
  • 43% of protein requirements
    
  • 36% of calcium requirements
    
  • 75% of vitamin A requirements
    
  • 76% of folate requirements
    
  • 94% of vitamin B12 requirements
    
  • 60% of vitamin C requirements
    

  -- Dewey 2001

 

• Studies done in rural Bangladesh have shown that breastmilk continues to be an important source of vitamin A in the second and third year of life.
  -- Persson 1998
  

 

• It's not uncommon for weaning to be recommended for toddlers who are eating few solids. However, this recommendation is not supported by research. According to Sally Kneidel in "Nursing Beyond One Year" (New Beginnings, Vol. 6 No. 4, July-August 1990, pp. 99-103.): Some doctors may feel that nursing will interfere with a child's appetite for other foods. Yet there has been no documentation that nursing children are more likely than weaned children to refuse supplementary foods. In fact, most researchers in Third World countries, where a malnourished toddler's appetite may be of critical importance, recommend continued nursing for even the severely malnourished (Briend et al, 1988; Rhode, 1988; Shattock and Stephens, 1975; Whitehead, 1985). Most suggest helping the malnourished older nursing child not by weaning but by supplementing the mother's diet to improve the nutritional quality of her milk (Ahn and MacLean. 1980; Jelliffe and Jelliffe, 1978) and by offering the child more varied and more palatable foods to improve his or her appetite (Rohde, 1988; Tangermann, 1988; Underwood, 1985).
  

References

Nursing toddlers are SICK LESS OFTEN

 

• The American Academy of Family Physicians notes that children weaned before two years of age are at increased risk of illness (AAFP 2001).
  

 

• Nursing toddlers between the ages of 16 and 30 months have been found to have fewer illnesses and illnesses of shorter duration than their non-nursing peers (Gulick 1986).
  

 

• "Antibodies are abundant in human milk throughout lactation" (Nutrition During Lactation 1991; p. 134). In fact, some of the immune factors in breastmilk increase in concentration during the second year and also during the weaning process. (Goldman 1983, Goldman & Goldblum 1983, Institute of Medicine 1991).
  

 

• Per the World Health Organization, "a modest increase in breastfeeding rates could prevent up to 10% of all deaths of children under five: Breastfeeding plays an essential and sometimes underestimated role in the treatment and prevention of childhood illness." [emphasis added]
  

References

Nursing toddlers have FEWER ALLERGIES

 

• Many studies have shown that one of the best ways to prevent allergies and asthma is to breastfeed exclusively for at least 6 months and continue breastfeeding long-term after that point.
   
  Breastfeeding can be helpful for preventing allergy by:
  
  1. reducing exposure to potential allergens (the later baby is exposed, the less likely that there will be an allergic reaction),
     
  2. speeding maturation of the protective intestinal barrier in baby's gut,
     
  3. coating the gut and providing a barrier to potentially allergenic molecules,
     
  4. providing anti-inflammatory properties that reduce the risk of infections (which can act as allergy triggers).
     

   

References

Nursing toddlers are SMART

 

• Extensive research on the relationship between cognitive achievement (IQ scores, grades in school) and breastfeeding has shown the greatest gains for those children breastfed the longest.
  

References

Nursing toddlers are WELL ADJUSTED SOCIALLY

 

• According to Sally Kneidel in "Nursing Beyond One Year" (New Beginnings, Vol. 6 No. 4, July-August 1990, pp. 99-103.):
  
  "Research reports on the psychological aspects of nursing are scarce. One study that dealt specifically with babies nursed longer than a year showed a significant link between the duration of nursing and mothers' and teachers' ratings of social adjustment in six- to eight-year-old children (Ferguson et al, 1987). In the words of the researchers, 'There are statistically significant tendencies for conduct disorder scores to decline with increasing duration of breastfeeding.'"
  

 

• According to Elizabeth N. Baldwin, Esq. in "Extended Breastfeeding and the Law":
  "Breastfeeding is a warm and loving way to meet the needs of toddlers and young children. It not only perks them up and energizes them; it also soothes the frustrations, bumps and bruises, and daily stresses of early childhood. In addition, nursing past infancy helps little ones make a gradual transition to childhood."
  

 

• Baldwin continues: "Meeting a child's dependency needs is the key to helping that child achieve independence. And children outgrow these needs according to their own unique timetable." Children who achieve independence at their own pace are more secure in that independence then children forced into independence prematurely.
  

References

con't

[LittleIzumi]

(ran out of room)

Nursing a toddler is NORMAL

 

 

• The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that "Breastfeeding should be continued for at least the first year of life and beyond for as long as mutually desired by mother and child... Increased duration of breastfeeding confers significant health and developmental benefits for the child and the mother... There is no upper limit to the duration of breastfeeding and no evidence of psychologic or developmental harm from breastfeeding into the third year of life or longer." (AAP 2005)
  

 

 

 

• The American Academy of Family Physicians recommends that breastfeeding continue throughout the first year of life and that "Breastfeeding beyond the first year offers considerable benefits to both mother and child, and should continue as long as mutually desired." They also note that "If the child is younger than two years of age, the child is at increased risk of illness if weaned." (AAFP 2001)
  

 

 

 

• A US Surgeon General has stated that it is a lucky baby who continues to nurse until age two. (Novello 1990)
  

 

 

 

• The World Health Organization emphasizes the importance of nursing up to two years of age or beyond (WHO 1992, WHO 2002).
  

 

 

 

• Scientific research by Katherine A. Dettwyler, PhD shows that 2.5 to 7.0 years of nursing is what our children have been designed to expect (Dettwyler 1995).
  

 

References [see also position statements supporting breastfeeding]

MOTHERS also benefit from nursing past infancy

 

 

• Extended nursing delays the return of fertility in some women by suppressing ovulation (References).
  

 

 

 

• Breastfeeding reduces the risk of breast cancer (References). Studies have found a significant inverse association between duration of lactation and breast cancer risk.
  

 

 

 

• Breastfeeding reduces the risk of ovarian cancer (References).
  

 

 

 

• Breastfeeding reduces the risk of uterine cancer (References).
  

 

 

 

• Breastfeeding reduces the risk of endometrial cancer (References).
  

 

 

 

• Breastfeeding protects against osteoporosis. During lactation a mother may experience decreases of bone mineral. A nursing mom's bone mineral density may be reduced in the whole body by 1 to 2 percent while she is still nursing. This is gained back, and bone mineral density may actually increase, when the baby is weaned from the breast. This is not dependent on additional calcium supplementation in the mother's diet. (References).
  

 

 

 

• Breastfeeding reduces the risk of rheumatoid arthritis. (References).
  

 

 

 

• Breastfeeding has been shown to decrease insulin requirements in diabetic women (References).
  

 

 

 

• Breastfeeding moms tend to lose weight easier (References).
  

 

[Peri]

I put other because he doesn't get involved in that. It is totally my choice to make and not his. Just like when i decide to wean it is because I choose to.

[IsabelC]

You all realize, right, that not everyone thinks WHO is the quintessential source for information on how to raise our children (or other health matters) so that might not be the source that changes one's mind?

Just to answer that part of your questions, I don't think anybody thinks the WHO is the be all and end all in terms of parenting or health matters. I think the crux of it is that WHO is, by and large, a conservative organization, not generally swayed by extremists or avant garde / faddish health theories. So when I say "WHO recommends breastfeeding until age 2 or beyond" I guess I mean, "look this is so well established and beyond doubt that even WHO recommends it", as opposed to "a few strange alternative type people dig the idea".

 

 

As for why mothers breastfeed for the length of time that they do, I think you're absolutely right - you'd need to ask 'em because there'd be a big variety of replies. For me, the answer is that there is no benefit (for me and my child) in weaning.

[Murphy101]

Oh well I was thinking past a year.

My dh would not be thrilled to have me nurse past 3 yr mark tops.

Neither would I for that matter.

Not that it matters bc that's never been an option.

I have gone over 2 years but they either weaned themselves or the next pregnancy ended it. (hmg sickies make tandem nursing impossible).

[skueppers]

My husband doesn't get involved in decisions about nursing -- he figures that since I'm the one who nurses the children, it's really up to me.

[Lovedtodeath]

I'm curious about what well-done medical studies have said about breastfeeding beyond the first year or two.

There was definitely a study that showed increased immunity for breastfeeding children over 5. I saw it. I don't know where it is now in order to reference it.

[Crimson Wife]

Just to answer that part of your questions, I don't think anybody thinks the WHO is the be all and end all in terms of parenting or health matters. I think the crux of it is that WHO is, by and large, a conservative organization, not generally swayed by extremists or avant garde / faddish health theories. So when I say "WHO recommends breastfeeding until age 2 or beyond" I guess I mean, "look this is so well established and beyond doubt that even WHO recommends it", as opposed to "a few strange alternative type people dig the idea".

 

Except that what the WHO recommends may not be as relevant to affluent women in developed countries who have reliable access to clean water supplies. I think it's much more important for poor women in developing countries to BF longer since the alternative may be drinking contaminated water, KWIM?

[dirty ethel rackham]

Except that what the WHO recommends may not be as relevant to affluent women in developed countries who have reliable access to clean water supplies. I think it's much more important for poor women in developing countries to BF longer since the alternative may be drinking contaminated water, KWIM?

 

Perhaps you are right for the short term. We do not have the same problems with infants dying of diarrhea here like they do in less developed countries. However we find more and more evidence on the benefits of nursing on long term health.

 

I used to think like your dh until I had my oldest son. Then I went through an evolution of thought where I began to question my previously held ideas and found that they were based on useless cultural conditioning, not on truth.

[Joanne]

My xh, who was my husband when my now weaned children were nursing was somewhere between neutral and supportive at the time. It's likely now he'll use that time frame to paint some kind of weird picture of me being an extreme crunchy earth mama.

 

My DH would have been very supportive, and was supportive of his wife breastfeeding his boys.

 

On the lightly censored "inappropriate" rabbit trail.....I have seen situations where I believe that breastfeeding went on beyond natural weaning limits because of *parental* issues. Not sexual, but when a mother's identity (for whatever reason) gets wrapped up in being a certain kind of mom, those issues can manifest in the breastfeeding relationships. That's what I think happened in the youtube mom who talks about nursing her school aged girls, and the girls' hyperfocus on breasts.

 

I also think that there is a larger percentage of permissiveness present in "extended" (hate that term) nursing moms. In that community, the nursing relationship is often imbued with immunity from limits, discipline and mother imposed scheduling (I'm not talking about babies or toddlers). I've seen many, many unboundaried nursing relationships with older children and many of them, IMO, were unhealthy.

 

My kids could read before they were weaned, btw, so I am not writing without personal experience.

[IsabelC]

Except that what the WHO recommends may not be as relevant to affluent women in developed countries who have reliable access to clean water supplies. I think it's much more important for poor women in developing countries to BF longer since the alternative may be drinking contaminated water, KWIM?

Absolutely! When you hear the stat that a child dies every 30 seconds due to not being adequately breastfed, the vast majority of these are due to third world issues such as water borne diarrheal illnesses. However other outcomes are actually more relevant to developed countries. I'm in Australia, which I am told has recently overtaken the US to top the obesity charts, and length of breastfeeding is one of the (many) things that influence obesity, the longer you were breastfed the less likely you are to be obese.

[Peela]

Like with most things, my dh was not happy at first that I tandem bf my two until they are 3 and 5, as he felt it was too much of a drain on me. However, when he realised how incredibly important it was to me, to do it this way, he became very supportive.

He was like that with homeschooling too.

[Peela]

Y

I'm curious about what well-done medical studies have said about breastfeeding beyond the first year or two. Do we assume that a child is healthier in a sort of non-quantifiable (or fuzzy math) type of way because they breastfeed longer...sort of like the way it's said we've "saved X-amount of jobs" by all of the stimulus money being spent or what? Or is it really simply that there are no longer any significant health benefits when a child is 3-years old and getting real, whole foods but there isn't any *negative* result and mommy and child still want to nurse so we say it's better? (Because it's OK to say that, isn't it?) I really want to know which it is. Or do most extended nursers do it for non-health reasons in the first place? Sorry, maybe I should do a poll! LOL

 

Someone else replied with some studies, but I never really had any doubt that breastfeeding topped my kids' nutrition when they were pickily eating those first few years. It's just common sense, isnt it, that breastmilk will continue to add nutrition to a child's diet as long as they consume it? And nowadays, what child has a perfect diet? I was particularly concerned about allergies with my two kids, and so I was very careful what foods to introduce, and how much and when, and one of my motivations to extend bf as long as the kids wanted, was to boost their immune systems.

They ended up with no allergies although their father has plenty. They rarely got sick (still rarely get sick). Its all anecdotal but I dont have any doubt that it helped them get a good start.