Nakia Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I have had this on my heart for a long time, and I need some perspective on it. I work (as a nurse) with a woman whose son has a severe heart condition. Let's call the woman Jan and her son Kyle. Jan is a very negative person in general. I believe that is just her nature. She can also be a lot of fun, especially at 3 in the morning at work! :D Kyle was born with half a heart. He is now nine years old. He has pretty severe ADHD as well. Jan speaks very unkindly about her son A LOT!! She told me a few weeks ago that her son "is not a blessing", he "is a pain in the neck", and that she was devoting all her time to "a kid that won't live past 19 anyway". I was floored. I told her that she should be ashamed of herself and that I hope her son never heard her talk that way about him. I told her that surely his life was a blessing to her in some way. Her response? "No!" I pointed out that he clearly loves her. She has a big note on her locker that he wrote her that says "I Luv You Mommy." She just rolled her eyes and said "Whatever, Nakia, you have no idea what he is like. I was not blessed with that child." I just walked away at that point. Well, she is right. My girls are all happy and healthy kids with no real behavioral problems. I have tried to be kind to her. This is certainly not the first time she has spoken this way about Kyle to me or other nurses we work with. I feel like she is just dealing with it the best way she can. But her words broke my heart. He is a beautiful child, and clearly adores his mother. I assume she doesn't let him know that he is a big waste of time. I guess I am posting so that someone might be able to give me some insight. I don't really know if I responded correctly because I clearly offended her. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Well, it sounds like there is more to the story that she is not revealing. Perhaps she is feeling spent over dealing with his physical problems and he may not always show the gratitude he might for her sacrifices. Not that that's a good reason to have an attitude like hers, but it is an explanation anyway. Perhaps she feels like his care is all dumped on her and no one else in the family helps out. Perhaps the stress of caring for him has put a strain on her marriage that was not there before. There are so many possibilities. Unless you walk in her shoes it will always seem like a mystery. I would just try to encourage her and I would definitely pray for her. She sounds tired, worn out and lacking hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmy Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 It sounds like she has a very broken spirit and probably questions "why" she was given a child that is such a challenge both in terms of behavior and medical issues - and maybe that is how she deals with it in her mind. I feel sad for her and her child, I hope she never lets him really know how she feels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amy g. Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 This may not be it at all, but....when my son is about to go away to camp, he starts acting so ugly to me. Every year, I think, "Whew, I'm glad to get a break from that kid." Then one day, I realized that it happens every year at exactly the same time. The rest of the year, we are very close, and don't have very many conflicts. I think that it is really painful for him to anticipate the separation, so he creates a situation where it does not hurt as much to be away from me because he is so mad at me anyway. It is possible that the threat of her son's dying young is so overwhelming that she says he is not a blessing to lessen the loss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarfoot Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Wow, I don't know. Do you think that perhaps this is her way of protecting her heart against losing him eventually? How incredibly sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Imagine not being expected to live, and not being loved by your mother either. It just breaks my heart. How horrible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 Kathleen, I think you are probably right. I am thankful that I don't have to walk in her shoes. I do feel pity for her, but it is hard when she speaks so unkindly about him. I'm sure she is tired of it, and she and her husband recently moved here from the Northeast so they are away from their family and friends. I'm also sure it must strain her marriage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 Do you think that perhaps this is her way of protecting her heart against losing him eventually? That has also crossed my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 This may not be it at all, but....when my son is about to go away to camp, he starts acting so ugly to me. Every year, I think, "Whew, I'm glad to get a break from that kid." Then one day, I realized that it happens every year at exactly the same time. The rest of the year, we are very close, and don't have very many conflicts. I think that it is really painful for him to anticipate the separation, so he creates a situation where it does not hurt as much to be away from me because he is so mad at me anyway. It is possible that the threat of her son's dying young is so overwhelming that she says he is not a blessing to lessen the loss Wow, I don't know. Do you think that perhaps this is her way of protecting her heart against losing him eventually? How incredibly sad. Very wise insights. This may be it. I remember my mom and I always fought when it was time for me to go back to college at the end of the summer and winter break. I think it was hard for her (we lived alone, just the two of us) to be alone again. She may just be steeling her heart, poor thing. What a tragedy to miss out on his life because she fears his death so much.:( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Wow, I don't know. Do you think that perhaps this is her way of protecting her heart against losing him eventually? How incredibly sad. There is an old saying in the military that it is the only place where one dies for a living. When you marry into the military, it is very difficult not to start vicious fights prior to every deployment. This may seem counter-intuitive, but really, it isn't. It is a protective mechanism; if you don't care, you won't care. Imagine not being expected to live, and not being loved by your mother either. It just breaks my heart. How horrible! I'm relatively certain she loves him fiercely. (see above) a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 I'm relatively certain she loves him fiercely. (see above) a I don't doubt her love for one second. She is very devoted to him and his care. Her words are like knives though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Wow, I don't know. Do you think that perhaps this is her way of protecting her heart against losing him eventually? How incredibly sad. I think that this is it. I think that her mind is going to THIS place: "Well, it won't be so bad losing him because of the frustrations, irritations, etc." It is easier to think of losing something/someone you don't think you like very much than to think of losing something/someone you do. Just my two cents. I can see why it shocked you that she said that, but....I think that she is in survival/self-protection mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in Austin Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 You've gotten a lot of good advice here. I would just add that I have a friend I love dearly and anytime anyone says anything negative about someone, she turns it into a positive: Me: "That child argues with me about everything!" Her: "Isn't it good to know that he'll always stand up for what he believes in?" She's really helped my adjust my attitude. I wonder what would happen if you always countered her negativity with something positive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalknot Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Even when offered with the best of intentions, it's difficult to hear "advice" or comments from people who haven't walked that walk. Sometimes it comes across as condescending, and if you used those exact words "you should be ashamed of yourself" ... well, I don't know how else that could have been taken by her, but offensively. She sounds like she is under extreme stress, chronic stress if it's been nine years and progressively becoming more challenging with the ADHD. She probably holds it together best she can while at home, and part of that is probably linked to her having a "safe" place (like work) to unload her daily frustrations and negative energy. I'd imagine it's like caring for an elderly parent, particularly one with dementia or other challenging behavior issues. We can wonder aloud what the point is when they're just going to die soon anyhow, but really that is more indicative of our stress level than it is of our true genuine feelings. No matter how negative a person we tend to be outwardly, especially under duress. If it's truly so bothersome for you to hear her comments, it's a reasonable request to ask her to refrain from saying them within your earshot ... but other than that, butt out IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginevra Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 It does sound pretty heartbreaking that she would say those things. I think you handled it well, probably better than I would have. I would understand it from this perspective: There is a bitter, painful side of grief that can be really quite ugly and shocking. When you have to endure some terrible departure from your dreams and hopes, I think there's a lot of pressure to put on a happy face and "be strong". To say things that sound nicey-nice and not tell the truth about how rotten a hand you were dealt. Perhaps she is tired of people who don't have to live with her pain and disappointment and lack of future/hope saying those nicey-nicey things that she can't relate to and doesn't feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Jan has been grieving for nine years now. And there are stages to grief. She may be be back in the anger stage.... again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 Even when offered with the best of intentions, it's difficult to hear "advice" or comments from people who haven't walked that walk. Sometimes it comes across as condescending, and if you used those exact words "you should be ashamed of yourself" ... well, I don't know how else that could have been taken by her, but offensively. She sounds like she is under extreme stress, chronic stress if it's been nine years and progressively becoming more challenging with the ADHD. She probably holds it together best she can while at home, and part of that is probably linked to her having a "safe" place (like work) to unload her daily frustrations and negative energy. I'd imagine it's like caring for an elderly parent, particularly one with dementia or other challenging behavior issues. We can wonder aloud what the point is when they're just going to die soon anyhow, but really that is more indicative of our stress level than it is of our true genuine feelings. No matter how negative a person we tend to be outwardly, especially under duress. If it's truly so bothersome for you to hear her comments, it's a reasonable request to ask her to refrain from saying them within your earshot ... but other than that, butt out IMO. I did say those exact words, and I know they were offensive. I owe her an apology, and I intend to apologize the next time I see her. I just want to be clear about the fact that I wasn't trying to get in her business. She was ranting about her child in the public nurses' station. I don't feel like I can tell her to stop saying things about her child within my earshot because this is not about me. I just wanted some insight, and perhaps a proper response to her grief and anger. It does sound pretty heartbreaking that she would say those things. I think you handled it well, probably better than I would have. I would understand it from this perspective: There is a bitter, painful side of grief that can be really quite ugly and shocking. When you have to endure some terrible departure from your dreams and hopes, I think there's a lot of pressure to put on a happy face and "be strong". To say things that sound nicey-nice and not tell the truth about how rotten a hand you were dealt. Perhaps she is tired of people who don't have to live with her pain and disappointment and lack of future/hope saying those nicey-nicey things that she can't relate to and doesn't feel. I agree. I certainly don't want to minimize her problems. I think she is probably tired of people bragging about her kids and talking about their future when she cannot relate. Thanks for pointing that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Katia Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 You've already been given such excellent advice that I only have one more slight insight I'd like to make: You said she had recently moved, and having moved many times myself, there is a (sometimes) long period of grief and mourning that you go through with this as well. Everything you know and are familiar with is gone. Notably friends and your support system. I can't even imagine adding to it the stress of a terminally ill child. I'm sure this is weighing in as well. I'm so sorry for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Just one more thought. After reading all the replies - especially about grief - I was reminded of the movie "The Yearling." The mom treats her son so coldly throughout most of the movie and you come to learn that she has hardened her emotions because several of her other children have already died and she does not want to feel the pain of attaching herself to her son and then losing him like she lost all the others. Her husband is very, very patient with her - never lectures, although you can see it pains him to see her treat her son like that. She eventually comes around, but then, it's just a movie (based on the book, of course). I think I can understand why your co-worker speaks the way she does. She needs lots of prayer, a listening ear and no advice. Hopefully she will soften for his sake. I'm praying for you, too, because I would find this very difficult to listen to on a regular basis.:grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leanna Tomlinson Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 You've been given a lot of great advice and insight. I'd just like to say that I worked in Pediatrics for 4 years with chronic renal and neuro patients. I saw this type of mom on a regular basis. I really think, like others have stated, that these attitudes are self-protective. The irony is that many times these moms were the least prepared when the actual loss happened. She really sounds very vulnerable. This brings back a lot of memories.... Leanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 The prospect of losing a child has got to be one of the most awful a parent can face. I can't even imagine how I would cope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne in ABQ Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I told her that she should be ashamed of herself . . . Well, after reading and agreeing with the other posters, that her venting is a defense reaction to the pain and fear she must be feeling, I will say that the thing in your original post that made me cringe most was your shaming her for her feelings. Emotions are not evil, or shameful. Which is worse, feeling overwhelmed and frightened and frustrated, or shaming and condemning someone for feeling that way? I understand you being uncomfortable, even shocked, at her declarations. But, condemning her for her feelings was out of bounds, in my opinion. She trusted you enough to share her feelings. She can't trust you with them anymore. I think that's sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 Well, after reading and agreeing with the other posters, that her venting is a defense reaction to the pain and fear she must be feeling, I will say that the thing in your original post that made me cringe most was your shaming her for her feelings. Emotions are not evil, or shameful. Which is worse, feeling overwhelmed and frightened and frustrated, or shaming and condemning someone for feeling that way? I understand you being uncomfortable, even shocked, at her declarations. But, condemning her for her feelings was out of bounds, in my opinion. She trusted you enough to share her feelings. She can't trust you with them anymore. I think that's sad. Yes, I have already admitted that I was wrong, and I definitely intend to give her an apology the next time we work together. I am sorry that I said that to her. I know it was the wrong thing to say, and perhaps the worst thing I could have said to her. She is vulnerable. I understand that. I'm not trying to single you out, Suzanne, but this just made me think of something. I feel terrible about the situation. I posted this to get some insight and help in dealing with this situation. I want to be a friend to her. I want to be kind to her. I am not a mean person. Surely everyone here has spoken abruptly to someone and later regretted it. Perhaps it would be nice to extend grace to each other more on this board as well as in real life. I honestly did not set out to hurt her. She is entitled to her feelings! I am trying my best to understand them and be a friend to her. That is why I posted. Thanks for all the responses. You have given much to think about. I am going to pray that I will have the right words when I talk to her to apologize. And I will pray for her heart to be healed of this pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Yes, I have already admitted that I was wrong, and I definitely intend to give her an apology the next time we work together. I am sorry that I said that to her. I know it was the wrong thing to say, and perhaps the worst thing I could have said to her. She is vulnerable. I understand that. I'm not trying to single you out, Suzanne, but this just made me think of something. I feel terrible about the situation. I posted this to get some insight and help in dealing with this situation. I want to be a friend to her. I want to be kind to her. I am not a mean person. Surely everyone here has spoken abruptly to someone and later regretted it. Perhaps it would be nice to extend grace to each other more on this board as well as in real life. I honestly did not set out to hurt her. She is entitled to her feelings! I am trying my best to understand them and be a friend to her. That is why I posted. Thanks for all the responses. You have given much to think about. I am going to pray that I will have the right words when I talk to her to apologize. And I will pray for her heart to be healed of this pain. Well, I can't speak for everyone, but yes, I have said some things abruptly that I later regretted - lots and lots of times, unfortunately. I can certainly understand your shock and I think it was wise of you to come here for advice on how to comprehend how someone could say such things. If we haven't walked that road, it can be very difficult to wrap our minds around other people's behavior. You are a nice person, Nakia - your warm, caring manner shines through all your posts.:) It is also evident in your decision to apologize and mend the relationship. Like I said, I will be praying for you as you seek to show your friend the love and understanding she needs.:grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubrey Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Well, after reading and agreeing with the other posters, that her venting is a defense reaction to the pain and fear she must be feeling, I will say that the thing in your original post that made me cringe most was your shaming her for her feelings. Emotions are not evil, or shameful. Which is worse, feeling overwhelmed and frightened and frustrated, or shaming and condemning someone for feeling that way? I understand you being uncomfortable, even shocked, at her declarations. But, condemning her for her feelings was out of bounds, in my opinion. She trusted you enough to share her feelings. She can't trust you with them anymore. I think that's sad. Wait. This woman's situation is really sad, & if her feelings/words are expressions of pain, that's tragic. BUT people's words, esp when they are *so* harsh, *hurt* those around them. And all feelings are not necessarily *right.* Should Nakia have told the woman to her face that she was wrong? I don't know. Maybe not. Otoh, maybe it's given the woman a chance to evaluate her feelings? But equally valid is the question, Should the woman have expressed such feelings in a working environment? There may be some places where such conversations would be ok, but I think there are many where it is not. The woman would do better, I think, to find a close friend or a counselor to speak w/, if her conversations must be this harsh. I mean...if her son were healthy & she spoke this way of him, we'd consider it abuse or something borderline. I understand the argument for cutting her some slack & for the possibility that she doesn't really mean it, but I think anyone who has to have their heart broken by listening to it should be cut some slack, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne in ABQ Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Yes, I have already admitted that I was wrong, and I definitely intend to give her an apology the next time we work together. I am sorry that I said that to her. I know it was the wrong thing to say, and perhaps the worst thing I could have said to her. She is vulnerable. I understand that. I'm not trying to single you out, Suzanne, but this just made me think of something. I feel terrible about the situation. I posted this to get some insight and help in dealing with this situation. I want to be a friend to her. I want to be kind to her. I am not a mean person. Surely everyone here has spoken abruptly to someone and later regretted it. Perhaps it would be nice to extend grace to each other more on this board as well as in real life. I honestly did not set out to hurt her. She is entitled to her feelings! I am trying my best to understand them and be a friend to her. That is why I posted. Thanks for all the responses. You have given much to think about. I am going to pray that I will have the right words when I talk to her to apologize. And I will pray for her heart to be healed of this pain. I'm sorry if I sounded abrupt, Nakia. I couldn't tell from your post if you had considered your reaction. I was trying not to be long "winded", so I didn't repeat all my agreement with the other responses. I only wanted to add my "new" ideas. That made it seem like I was attacking you. I didn't mean to, and I'm sorry. Of course I've said stuff that didn't come out the way I've meant it, or that came off as harsh, or that WAS harsh, that I later regretted. I obviously have done so quite recently! :blushing: I hope you can forgive me, and that your friend will see your heart as you reach out to her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I think sometimes we misinterpret blessings. Her son IS a blessing, but she can't see it. She (it sounds like) is so sure of this that she will not see the blessing. Other than sending her to her Bible and a lot of prayer I don't know what to say :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest janainaz Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Wow, I don't know. Do you think that perhaps this is her way of protecting her heart against losing him eventually? How incredibly sad. This was my first thought, too. It's painful to hear a mother talk about her child that way, but I can't even begin to imagine that is how she really feels deep in her heart. It's an impossible emotion for me to understand. How upsetting. I would have a hard time not being drawn to talk to her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 I'm sorry if I sounded abrupt, Nakia. I couldn't tell from your post if you had considered your reaction. I was trying not to be long "winded", so I didn't repeat all my agreement with the other responses. I only wanted to add my "new" ideas. That made it seem like I was attacking you. I didn't mean to, and I'm sorry. Of course I've said stuff that didn't come out the way I've meant it, or that came off as harsh, or that WAS harsh, that I later regretted. I obviously have done so quite recently! :blushing: I hope you can forgive me, and that your friend will see your heart as you reach out to her. Of course I forgive you, Suzanne. I appreciate your apology very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdeveson Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 It is possible that the threat of her son's dying young is so overwhelming that she says he is not a blessing to lessen the loss It's what first came to my mind. She knows what's coming. This is such a sad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 It is possible that the threat of her son's dying young is so overwhelming that she says he is not a blessing to lessen the loss :iagree: and she may just be really tired. Also, there are people who run down their kids who are not dying. I used to be in a vanpool and I was just shocked at the horrible things the mother's said about their kids....sort of like it would be bragging to say even something normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 This may not be it at all, but....when my son is about to go away to camp, he starts acting so ugly to me. Every year, I think, "Whew, I'm glad to get a break from that kid." Then one day, I realized that it happens every year at exactly the same time. The rest of the year, we are very close, and don't have very many conflicts. I think that it is really painful for him to anticipate the separation, so he creates a situation where it does not hurt as much to be away from me because he is so mad at me anyway. It is possible that the threat of her son's dying young is so overwhelming that she says he is not a blessing to lessen the loss I used to do this to a couple of men I dated. I hated it when we had to part for the summer or whatever, and I would sort of pick fights. I didn't really *know* I was doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougarmom4 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Maybe there is a way you can reach out to help her be less overwhelmed. If she is new to the area, away from friends & family, overwhelmed with needs of ds, frustrated, tired, etc...maybe she just needs an occasional break. Could you offer to watch ds while she & dh go on a date? Could you take her a dinner one night, just to relieve a little pressure? Perhaps she just needs a friend. I'd have a hard time listening to her, too...but maybe if she had one person she could let it all out with, it would help her. My mom is a pretty negative person--and she doesn't have very many friends--and often she vents to me & complains about everything that goes wrong. It's hard to listen to...and I am so tempted to jump in with a more positive twist on things to help her see things from a different perspective...or tell her how wrong she is to feel that way. I finally realized that she just needed to get things out of her system by telling someone who would still love her...and then she could let things go. Perhaps 'Jan' is in need of this type of friend...perhaps it could be you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 Just wanted to update. I apologized; she accepted. I am praying for her and her son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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