Do you track your family members via their cell phone?

[Mrs Mungo]

I'm going to be rude and ignore the thread except to say:

 

I told my mom (several years ago) that they had these new phones for teens with GPS tracking. My mom (a mom who raised me and 3 other daughters) said "awww." I said "what?" She said "I feel sorry for the kid who gets stuck going to the movies with all the phones."

[RegGuheert]

 

BTW, after this lengthy response is tracking the same as gps???? I'm answering these questions pertaining to gps...

Basically. GPS has many uses that do not involve what I would call "tracking", such as navigation or location, i.e. "self-tracking". The concept we are discussing here is having the phone use GPS to locate its position and then sharing it over the internet to someone else. This is what you have been discussing, so I think we are on the same page.

[Danestress]

Honestly, life is probably better not keeping tabs on whether he went to class and whether he is at a girlfriend's apartment.

 

I want to know if he's been arrested and if he's passing his classes. I'm not sure I really want to know much else.

 

Yes, if someone we love disappears, it would be nice to be able to "triangulate" like they do on 24. But I think the temptation to renounce all privacy and autonomy out of fear or abduction and victimization is a dangerous one.

[Peek a Boo]

I'm going to be rude and ignore the thread except to say:

 

I told my mom (several years ago) that they had these new phones for teens with GPS tracking. My mom (a mom who raised me and 3 other daughters) said "awww." I said "what?" She said "I feel sorry for the kid who gets stuck going to the movies with all the phones."

 

well yeah, lol!

which is why I don't send my teen to the movies w/o a responsible adult. Somehow he's managing to become an independent sucker w/o going to the movies w/o an adult. :tongue_smilie:

 

and then we always hear the old "but teens are more trustworthy than that" ....uh huh........

either your teen is trustworthy or they aren't.

If they are, they'll be at the location w/ their phone.

or it's only your [generic your] teen that is trustworthy. ;)

[Danestress]

I think the issue is with tracking someone when they don't know they are being tracked. If you know your DH can track you and you don't mind, great.

 

I'm thinking that this woman hasn't told her son because she knows he would not be okay with it. I personally think that if you can't do something honestly in a relationship with another adult, you probably shouldn't do it. That's not a rule that will work 100% of the time, but I think it works most of the time. I can't think of why I would really mind my husband having the power to track me. I don't go anywhere interesting. But I would very much mind him having that power and not telling me because he figured I wouldn't like it but wanted to do it regardless of my feelings. Yes, good relationships are pretty transparent about "Where I am." They should also be transparent about "the degree to which I monitor you."

[swimmermom3]

RegGuheert, sir, I will pull my foot out of my mouth and apologize.:blush: I try not to be the person who is the 50th post and didn't bother to read the previous 48 posts. In this case, I somehow missed all of page 2 and jumped right into page three. Usually, you have a well-stated explanation on your threads which I look forward to reading. I am as probably as far left as you are right (no, no, I mean politically ;)). Your perspective generally gives me something to consider and I always appreciate that. I could not figure out how you got from your original, intriguing post to a post regarding government conspiracy. You didn't. I just flat out missed your explanation and opinion on the matter. Hence, my uncalled for remark.

 

It's now clear why you didn't give further details regarding the scenario in you original post. However, I wonder if in doing so, you didn't set the stage for some of the responses you received. Possibly I was not the only poster who had visions of a mom tracking her college-age son from the frat house party to his girlfriend's place for an overnight stay, or keeping tabs on how many times he skipped algebra. Without the explanation, perhaps it makes the mother look obsessive and unwilling to allow her child to grow up.

 

So, if you don't mind my asking, when you conducted your experiment, did you say that the tracking was fine enough that it showed your movement around the house - from room to room? If so, if one has to use the facilities, the kids could turn on their phones and track you down in an instant? Not that my kids need a gps for that. Peek, I hear you in the corner laughing. I'm thinking about what you said. Really.

[Parrothead]

um.....If you don't want to be tracked then disable that option.

 

If you feel you have to leave your phone w/ friends, at home, or turn it off just so someone won't know exactly where you are, then it sounds like there's deeper issues at stake.

 

and yes, i realize that there often ARE deeper issues at stake.

Nope, no deeper issues at stake. I don't want to know where my dh is every minute of every day. I don't believe he has to know where I am every minute of every day. And not only my dh, anyone. It is nobody's business where you, me or any other adult is at any given time.

 

Reasons like that is why I won't buy a car with On-star.

[Nicole M]

I'm going to be rude and ignore the thread except to say:

 

I told my mom (several years ago) that they had these new phones for teens with GPS tracking. My mom (a mom who raised me and 3 other daughters) said "awww." I said "what?" She said "I feel sorry for the kid who gets stuck going to the movies with all the phones."

 

 

Ha!

[OnTheBrink]

This technology would have come in handy when EX was out cattin' around. Would have surely saved me much time and heartache.

 

However, as a rule, I'd not use this with other adults unless there was some specific situation that called for it (spouse with long commute, parent with dementia). I'd have no problem using it with a minor child. I wouldn't use it with my adult son.

[Peek a Boo]

Nope, no deeper issues at stake. I don't want to know where my dh is every minute of every day. I don't believe he has to know where I am every minute of every day. And not only my dh, anyone. It is nobody's business where you, me or any other adult is at any given time.

 

Reasons like that is why I won't buy a car with On-star.

 

That sounds like an issue in and of itself ;)

 

but to each their own.

[sheryl]

Basically. GPS has many uses that do not involve what I would call "tracking", such as navigation or location, i.e. "self-tracking". The concept we are discussing here is having the phone use GPS to locate its position and then sharing it over the internet to someone else. This is what you have been discussing, so I think we are on the same page.

 

Reg, OK, I think I understand. Yikes! I would only consider gps a safety feature to track my dd in the event she was not responding via the phone. However, I would never share the position with others over the internet. I guess I'm just not understanding all this stuff....I'm just not techy and social media inclined (to the excess that is)...gps for safety only. OK, I think I've confused myself....do you know what I'm trying to say. Maybe you can help me out! :lol:

[Peek a Boo]

It's now clear why you didn't give further details regarding the scenario in you original post. However, I wonder if in doing so, you didn't set the stage for some of the responses you received. Possibly I was not the only poster who had visions of a mom tracking her college-age son from the frat house party to his girlfriend's place for an overnight stay, or keeping tabs on how many times he skipped algebra. Without the explanation, perhaps it makes the mother look obsessive and unwilling to allow her child to grow up.

 

I think it gives us a moment to pause and learn not to jump to conclusions ;)

 

One of the things I like [and is frustrating!] about our mayor is his ability to look at ALLLLLLL angles of situations and find pros and cons for just about anything. it's simply not as fun and dramatic, i tell ya!

 

 

If so, if one has to use the facilities, the kids could turn on their phones and track you down in an instant? Not that my kids need a gps for that. Peek, I hear you in the corner laughing. I'm thinking about what you said. Really.

 

:lol:

 

double thick doorways and deadbolts, baby! ;)

[TravelingChris]

I don't track anyone and don't plan to. My youngest is not going to places I don't know. My middle is busy buying presents and I don't want to know that. My oldest is an adult and I don't feel it is my business to track him. I think it is outright creepy to track one's spouse. Either they cheat and you should hire a professional to get the evidence or they don't and you are just a possessive jealous person.

[Peek a Boo]

Either they cheat and you should hire a professional to get the evidence or they don't and you are just a possessive jealous person.

 

why hire a professional if you can get the evidence yourself? :confused:

 

so lemme sum up--

 

anyone who disagrees with MY opinion has Unhealthy Issues in their relationship, and anyone who disagrees w/ Y'all's opinion is a possessive, creepy, disgusting, [see previous post for list of more colorful words], jealous person.

 

is everybody clear yet?:001_smile:

 

now, divide to your appropriate side of the room so we can take a head count and then eat chocolate.

[RegGuheert]

 

RegGuheert, sir, I will pull my foot out of my mouth and apologize.:blush: I try not to be the person who is the 50th post and didn't bother to read the previous 48 posts. In this case, I somehow missed all of page 2 and jumped right into page three. Usually, you have a well-stated explanation on your threads which I look forward to reading. I am as probably as far left as you are right (no, no, I mean politically ;)). Your perspective generally gives me something to consider and I always appreciate that. I could not figure out how you got from your original, intriguing post to a post regarding government conspiracy. You didn't. I just flat out missed your explanation and opinion on the matter. Hence, my uncalled for remark.

Apology wholeheartedly accepted! Thanks for your post! :001_smile: It's true that I have been known to post a question as a platform, but I really don't think this is a good example of one!

It's now clear why you didn't give further details regarding the scenario in you original post. However, I wonder if in doing so, you didn't set the stage for some of the responses you received. Possibly I was not the only poster who had visions of a mom tracking her college-age son from the frat house party to his girlfriend's place for an overnight stay, or keeping tabs on how many times he skipped algebra. Without the explanation, perhaps it makes the mother look obsessive and unwilling to allow her child to grow up.

I think you are right on this point. If you read the first post, you can see that I had a few questions that I wanted to hear about. The particular anecdote I provide was included because I literally did not know of a single other case of someone tracking another person until I read some of the posts yesterday. Thinking about it, I have to admit that if it had been *anyone* other than this particular mom and this particular son, then I would probably also be quite disturbed about her tracking him without his knowledge. But frankly, if he were my son, I think I would probably want to track him, too. If that meant doing it without his knowledge, I would probably STILL want to do it. I don't think the characterizations some have written of a mother tracking her ADULT son quite fit here. Yes, he may be 20 years old. But I do not think of him as an adult. Perhaps I am wrong in MY characterization, but I *truly* cannot decide if he is the way he is because he has an overprotective mom or if she is the way she is because of his condition. I suspect the truth is some of both. On a positive note, he *really* loves having an iPhone!

So, if you don't mind my asking, when you conducted your experiment, did you say that the tracking was fine enough that it showed your movement around the house - from room to room?

Well, I must say I was shocked to be able to see a green dot on the Google map showing *exactly* where I had set the phone in the kitchen at the end of the test. Certainly it was within a couple of feet. So yes, it definitely showed what room I was in. That said, I do NOT think it could be used to show my movements around the house, as I will explain.

If so, if one has to use the facilities, the kids could turn on their phones and track you down in an instant? Not that my kids need a gps for that. Peek, I hear you in the corner laughing. I'm thinking about what you said. Really.

The GPS on my phone *rarely* can acquire it's position when it is in the house. In my test, it acquired outside and then was able to keep its lock on the satellites once it came in the house. But you know what, that is with TODAY's cheap GPS receiver. I sell software used for the design of these types of radios and I can tell you they are getting better *rapidly*. I'm often amazed by what can be done today that simply was not possible last year! In any case, if you decide you want to enable tracking on your cell phone, I do NOT recommend telling your kids how to locate you on the internet! :D

[RegGuheert]

 

Reg, OK, I think I understand. Yikes! I would only consider gps a safety feature to track my dd in the event she was not responding via the phone. However, I would never share the position with others over the internet. I guess I'm just not understanding all this stuff....I'm just not techy and social media inclined (to the excess that is)...gps for safety only. OK, I think I've confused myself....do you know what I'm trying to say. Maybe you can help me out! :lol:

The systems I'm aware of share the position over the internet. You have to have a password to access the information, however. I suspose there are approaches that do not transfer the information to a web site, but I haven't tried any of them. From what some have posted, Verizon apparently has a capability to do this. Perhaps there's does is through their network without putting the information onto a publicly-accessible website. Anyone who is tracking on Verizon want to comment on how that works?

[RegGuheert]

All day today I have had an image playing in my head. It goes something like this:

 

Setting: Christmas morning in one (or several) of the homes of WOTWTM

 

WOTWTM: Honey, you didn't have to get me anything...but I'm GLAD you did!

DH: Of course I did, dear! I love you!

WOTWTM: What is it!

DH: Open it an find out!

WOTWTM: O.K.

[crinkle,crinkle]

WOTWTM: You got me an iPhone?

DH: Yes! And I got you a plan with full internet access and everything! You can use the GPS to give you turn-by-turn navigation when you go out.

WOTWTM: GPS?!!! Why you crazy, appalling, intrusive, disgusting, over-the-top, weird, sick, bizarre, inappropriate, mentally unhealthy, creepy bastard! You're even worse than that RegGuheert fellow on the WTM boards! How DARE you buy me an iPhone with GPS for Christmas!

[WOTWTM storms out of the room in tears]

DH: [muttering to himself] Not quite the response I was going for...

 

Anyway, hopefully this was not a premonition or anything like that! :D

 

Merry Christmas!!

[Julie in CA]

All day today I have had an image playing in my head. It goes something like this:

 

Setting: Christmas morning in one (or several) of the homes of WOTWTM

 

WOTWTM: Honey, you didn't have to get me anything...but I'm GLAD you did!

DH: Of course I did, dear! I love you!

WOTWTM: What is it!

DH: Open it an find out!

WOTWTM: O.K.

[crinkle,crinkle]

WOTWTM: You got me an iPhone?

DH: Yes! And I got you a plan with full internet access and everything! You can use the GPS to give you turn-by-turn navigation when you go out.

WOTWTM: GPS?!!! Why you crazy, appalling, intrusive, disgusting, over-the-top, weird, sick, bizarre, inappropriate, mentally unhealthy, creepy bastard! You're even worse than that RegGuheert fellow on the WTM boards! How DARE you buy me an iPhone with GPS for Christmas!

[WOTWTM storms out of the room in tears]

DH: [muttering to himself] Not quite the response I was going for...

 

Anyway, hopefully this was not a premonition or anything like that! :D

 

Merry Christmas!!

Aww, Reg....

Thank you so much for presenting a lighter side in this discussion. :D

I admit to taking the comments a bit personally, but I'm trying not to.

I didn't (until now) realize what a crazy, appalling, intrusive, disgusting, over-the-top, weird, sick, bizarre, inappropriate, mentally unhealthy, creepy person I really was! I'm probably getting a lump of coal for Christmas, huh? :tongue_smilie:

(But I also know without a doubt that the Locator has been a good thing in my family--good for me, *and* my ds.)

[swimmermom3]

But you know what, that is with TODAY's cheap GPS receiver. I sell software used for the design of these types of radios and I can tell you they are getting better *rapidly*. I'm often amazed by what can be done today that simply was not possible last year! In any case, if you decide you want to enable tracking on your cell phone, I do NOT recommend telling your kids how to locate you on the internet! :D

 

My oldest child and my youngest discussed the content of this thread on our way to and from an appointment downtown (50 minutes round trip). Surprisingly, the oldest could understand some scenarios where she would be comfortable with tracking. Her general take is, "If I do something that violates your trust, track me with my knowledge. I deserve it." My ds's opinion was a bit less formed, "That's..., well, that's just Communist." We will be working on that. However, he moved on to practical matters: he wants to know if you can hack the tracking signal. His imaginary situation was a "bad guy" who knew your family and knew that the kid had tracking capability on his phone. Could it be hacked? (I know, I'm messing with a variation of conspiracy theory, but I'm supposed to ask.) An inquiring mind that's into computers wants to know.

[Peek a Boo]

All day today I have had an image playing in my head. It goes something like this:

 

Setting: Christmas morning in one (or several) of the homes of WOTWTM

 

WOTWTM: Honey, you didn't have to get me anything...but I'm GLAD you did!

DH: Of course I did, dear! I love you!

WOTWTM: What is it!

DH: Open it an find out!

WOTWTM: O.K.

[crinkle,crinkle]

WOTWTM: You got me an iPhone?

DH: Yes! And I got you a plan with full internet access and everything! You can use the GPS to give you turn-by-turn navigation when you go out.

WOTWTM: GPS?!!! Why you crazy, appalling, intrusive, disgusting, over-the-top, weird, sick, bizarre, inappropriate, mentally unhealthy, creepy bastard! You're even worse than that RegGuheert fellow on the WTM boards! How DARE you buy me an iPhone with GPS for Christmas!

[WOTWTM storms out of the room in tears]

DH: [muttering to himself] Not quite the response I was going for...

 

Anyway, hopefully this was not a premonition or anything like that! :D

 

Merry Christmas!!

 

:lol:

[Peek a Boo]

However, he moved on to practical matters: he wants to know if you can hack the tracking signal. His imaginary situation was a "bad guy" who knew your family and knew that the kid had tracking capability on his phone. Could it be hacked? (I know, I'm messing with a variation of conspiracy theory, but I'm supposed to ask.) An inquiring mind that's into computers wants to know.

 

wait a sec!

 

::donning tinfoil hat::

 

yup.

sounds like a reasonable concern to me.

 

even w/o the tinfoil hat. ;)

[swimmermom3]

Aww, Reg....

Thank you so much for presenting a lighter side in this discussion. :D

I admit to taking the comments a bit personally, but I'm trying not to.

I didn't (until now) realize what a crazy, appalling, intrusive, disgusting, over-the-top, weird, sick, bizarre, inappropriate, mentally unhealthy, creepy person I really was! I'm probably getting a lump of coal for Christmas, huh? :tongue_smilie:

(But I also know without a doubt that the Locator has been a good thing in my family--good for me, *and* my ds.)

 

Julie, I don't think you were that unmentionable person. Most of the references were probably to the mom in the op and it was said without knowing the circumstances. My dd(17) thought your solution with your ds was a fair compromise. She values her privacy very much, so her response surprised me. In all fairness, she most likely thinks it is a good option because it wouldn't happen here. I am a tad bit on the unreasonable side regarding a teen being home at the time they have specified. If they are late and haven't called, there is a warning and an unhappy consequence. If there is a second offense, it is a very, very long time before they have an opportunity to commit a third offense. My dd has learned to pick her rides with care (with our approval) if she is not going with us.

[lovemyboys]

For my children' date=' however, I have the responsibility of knowing where they are at all times. For someone under 18, there's no [b']privacy[/b]. They do not live in a democracy at my house, they live in a benevolent dictatorship. I monitor the internet and where they go on the internet, why would I not be concerned about where they go IRL?

...........

It's not an issue of trust, but more one of safety. However, I'm not one of those naive parents who has their head in the sand saying "not my little angel" when it comes to teenagers. Teenagers make bad judgment calls sometimes, their reasoning skills aren't fully developed until somewhere around the age of 21. It's my job as a parent to protect them and raise them until they leave home

..........

when dc are out riding (horses, atv's, dirt bikes) I have the peace of mind of knowing if they are late coming back I can find them quickly. Those minutes could save their lives if they had an accident.

 

 

You may be happy to know that The Wash. Post confirms your suspicions. They had an article about this recently -- the headline was something like 'So you think your teen doesn't always have all of his brain with him? Well, you're right.' It was showing the anatomy of the brain which isn't fully developed in the frontal lobe decision-making/judgment area til the early 20s.

 

 

We were skiing last year and one of our group was snowboarding. He crashed on the far side of the mountain and had a slight concussion that affected his ability to give information. His mom wasn't aware of the crash for a couple hours, even though we'd been looking for him a bit. You just never know......

[sheryl]

The systems I'm aware of share the position over the internet. You have to have a password to access the information, however. I suspose there are approaches that do not transfer the information to a web site, but I haven't tried any of them. From what some have posted, Verizon apparently has a capability to do this. Perhaps there's does is through their network without putting the information onto a publicly-accessible website. Anyone who is tracking on Verizon want to comment on how that works?

 

 

Reg, Thanks for this post...very informative. When you say "share the position"....that's what I'm confused about. And, the password....for whom? Sorry to be such a dunce, but I grew up in the 60's and truly I'm behind the times with gadgets, etc. ;)

 

You've been busy hoping around this thread tonight, so whevever it's convenient for ya to answer is fine with me.

[RegGuheert]

However, he moved on to practical matters: he wants to know if you can hack the tracking signal. His imaginary situation was a "bad guy" who knew your family and knew that the kid had tracking capability on his phone. Could it be hacked? (I know, I'm messing with a variation of conspiracy theory, but I'm supposed to ask.) An inquiring mind that's into computers wants to know.

This is ABSOLUTELY a MAJOR concern with any sort of tracking system, particularly the ones we have been discussing which are internet-based. If you decide to set up some sort of surveillance for a loved one, PLEASE be careful to choose a reputable service and a secure password so that you do not put them into jeopardy from predators. I suspect the system from Verizon is more secure than most, since I suspect it can perform most of the tracking function within their network. But perhaps it puts the information on their website? Does anyone care to comment on how that works?

 

In a related topic, MomsintheGarden told me a story yesterday that she learned from the boys' barber: He indicated that thieves (or perhaps predators) have been breaking into peoples vehicles and stealing their GPS unit. They then use the information in the GPS to find your home. :scared: Pretty scary, if you ask me!

[RegGuheert]

Reg, Thanks for this post...very informative. When you say "share the position"....that's what I'm confused about. And, the password....for whom? Sorry to be such a dunce, but I grew up in the 60's and truly I'm behind the times with gadgets, etc. ;)

Hey, I grew up in the 60's, also!

 

The way most of these cellular systems work is this:

 

1) Software is loaded on the handset (cell phone) that watches for a particular signal to tell it to report its position. I think this is usually done by sending an SMS to the handset with a specified message along with a code.

2) If you now want to learn the position of the handset, you initiate the request by logging into a (probably secure) website and asking for the position of the handset.

3) The website where you made the request then sends an SMS message with the code you have provided to the handset. If you provided the correct code, the software then turns on the GPS receiver in the handset and acquires its position.

4) The position of the handset is then sent to a predetermined location. This can be done either by the handset sending an SMS message with the position in it or by uploading the position to a predetermined location on the internet. Please note that the position does NOT get sent directly to the requester, at least not in any system of which I am aware.

5) Finally, the information about the position of the handset is provided to the person who made the request by displaying it on the website where they made the request. In most cases, the position is displayed on a map. In some cases, you can view the position on a satellite image of the area.

 

The process above should take less than one minute, depending on how long it takes the GPS to determine its position. Once the GPS has aquired the satellites for positioning, it could provide position information very frequently, if desired, such as once every few seconds, or perhaps even more often than that. That would allow the website to display a "rabbit trail" showing where they handset had been, with time annotations, even.

 

Hopefully this gives a little clearer picture of how this tracking works. As you can see, the internet is "in the loop" on most of these types of tracking systems.

[Bev in B'ville]

This is ABSOLUTELY a MAJOR concern with any sort of tracking system, particularly the ones we have been discussing which are internet-based. If you decide to set up some sort of surveillance for a loved one, PLEASE be careful to choose a reputable service and a secure password so that you do not put them into jeopardy from predators. I suspect the system from Verizon is more secure than most, since I suspect it can perform most of the tracking function within their network. But perhaps it puts the information on their website? Does anyone care to comment on how that works?

 

QUOTE]

 

I do know that at least with Verizon, the tracking software has to be downloaded onto the phone and activated on the phone itself (not to mention that the phone has to have the capability to begin with - not all phones do - if you check the phone features on their website "Family Locator" is not available on all phones). If my dd said today she no longer wanted me to track her, she could go on her phone and deactivate the feature. I cannot just plug in anyone's phone number and track them whenever I want to.

[mirth]

Once the GPS has aquired the satellites for positioning, it could provide position information very frequently, if desired, such as once every few seconds, or perhaps even more often than that. That would allow the website to display a "rabbit trail" showing where they handset had been, with time annotations, even.

 

Ordinary cell phone handsets do not interact with satellites. They do not acquire their positions by acquiring satellite in any way. (Talking to satellites is a battery-intensive task and not something an ordinary cell phone even with the right GPS chipsets/receivers could do for very long.) All cell phone location position info is land-based (terrestrial communications) by pinging info back to cell towers on the ground. The cell phone is like a little radio. It is always sending and receiving signals from radio towers. Things like mountains and a paucity of towers can really diminish any useful info you get, but in most instances it is fine, though not as precise, accurate, or reliable as GPS via satellite.

 

BTW, these signals are already stored (constantly) at your carrier. It's just that recently Verizon et al started to sell the info back to people. (Sort of like how caller ID is selling info the provider already has.)

 

Breadcrumbing is possible with either terrestrial or satellite communications but as I mentioned, in general less precise, accurate, or reliable with the former.

Edited December 9, 2009 by mirth

[RegGuheert]

 

Ordinary cell phone handsets do not interact with satellites. They do not acquire their positions by acquiring satellite in any way. (Talking to satellites is a battery-intensive task and not something an ordinary cell phone even with the right GPS chipsets/receivers could do for very long.) All cell phone location position info is land-based (terrestrial communications) by pinging info back to cell towers on the ground.

I'm sorry, but your information is incorrect. Many, many cell phones have actual GPS receivers in them. These receivers track up to about 12 GPS satellites simultaneously to provide position. We have four Google Android phones in our family that have GPS receivers. All new iPhones have GPS receivers in them. Most (All?) new Blackberry phones have GPS receivers in them. I'm willing to bet that within the next few years you will NOT be able to purchase a cell phone WITHOUT a GPS receiver included. We will see...

The cell phone is like a little radio. It is always sending and receiving signals from radio towers. Things like mountains and a paucity of towers can really diminish any useful info you get, but in most instances it is fine, though not as precise, accurate, or reliable as GPS via satellite.

Yes, this type of location is available for cell phones which do not include GPS receivers. Our cell phones can do both: GPS or terrestrial location. In some modes, the terrestrial locator is used first because it works better indoors and acquires a location more quickly. Then the GPS is used to refine the position. For shopping applications, your exact location is not necessary. For turn-by-turn navigation, it *is* necessary.

BTW, these signals are already stored (constantly) at your carrier. It's just that recently Verizon et al started to sell the info back to people. (Sort of like how caller ID is selling info the provider already has.)

They certainly know which cells can see your phone at any given time. Are you sure that they constantly triangulate position, or only when requested?

Breadcrumbing is possible with either terrestrial or satellite communications but as I mentioned, in general less precise, accurate, or reliable with the former.

Agreed.

[mirth]

RegGuheert, you are so right. My definition of extraordinary cell phones is too narrow or too 2008. ;)

 

I do really appreciate all this discussion. The one thing I want to point out about GPS enable cell phones is that they still need to be a working tower to tell anyone else about its location, or to display a map (meaning: basically do anything useful).

 

Like those poor 3 NFL football players lost at sea ... Their phones may may or may not have been GPS enabled. Even if they rec'd a signal that said "you are 36.65643542543, -80.42424325653", they had no way and no chance to broadcast this to anyone. :( A true satellite phone (like Iridium) or a PSB would've done them a world of good.

Edited December 9, 2009 by mirth

[RegGuheert]

The one thing I want to point out about GPS enable cell phones is that they still need to be a working tower to tell anyone else about its location, or to display a map (meaning: basically do anything useful).

This is very true! In fact, MOST cell phones with GPS capability do not support fully-autonomous GPS operation. They use what is called Assisted GPS (A-GPS). In this mode, they receive information about either the satellites or their position or both from the network and with this information they are then able to acquire the satellites for location. Most (not all) of these A-GPS-equipped cell phones have NO capability to even get a GPS fix without the assistance of the network. And, as you said, even if they did, most do not have the maps to be able to do anything with the location information.

 

There are exceptions: I looked at the chip in the iPhone 3G and it supports fully-autonomous GPS acquisition. On the software side, there are some navigation applications available for Android that download the maps to the handset. I suppose there may be similar applications available for the iPhone.

 

As you said, the bottom line with a cell phone is that if you cannot access the network, it is likely you cannot do anything useful with your GPS-enabled phone. Plus, if you are at sea, it is not likely to survive getting wet.

 

I appreciate all the information you provided about PSBs! This was all news to me! :thumbup:

[RegGuheert]

FYI, here are some links on Wikipedia that provide more details about the topic of this thread:

 

Mobile-phone tracking

 

List of devices with A-GPS

[sheryl]

Hey, I grew up in the 60's, also!

 

The way most of these cellular systems work is this:

 

1) Software is loaded on the handset (cell phone) that watches for a particular signal to tell it to report its position. I think this is usually done by sending an SMS to the handset with a specified message along with a code.

2) If you now want to learn the position of the handset, you initiate the request by logging into a (probably secure) website and asking for the position of the handset.

3) The website where you made the request then sends an SMS message with the code you have provided to the handset. If you provided the correct code, the software then turns on the GPS receiver in the handset and acquires its position.

4) The position of the handset is then sent to a predetermined location. This can be done either by the handset sending an SMS message with the position in it or by uploading the position to a predetermined location on the internet. Please note that the position does NOT get sent directly to the requester, at least not in any system of which I am aware.

5) Finally, the information about the position of the handset is provided to the person who made the request by displaying it on the website where they made the request. In most cases, the position is displayed on a map. In some cases, you can view the position on a satellite image of the area.

 

The process above should take less than one minute, depending on how long it takes the GPS to determine its position. Once the GPS has aquired the satellites for positioning, it could provide position information very frequently, if desired, such as once every few seconds, or perhaps even more often than that. That would allow the website to display a "rabbit trail" showing where they handset had been, with time annotations, even.

 

Hopefully this gives a little clearer picture of how this tracking works. As you can see, the internet is "in the loop" on most of these types of tracking systems.

 

 

Got it! Thanks Reg! Sheryl