Christian's watching Harry Potter and the like....a little help please

[Word Nerd]

if you look at HP's life (everything he does) would he be a Christian in real life? Would a sorcerer go to Heaven? Why is it then acceptable in children's fantasy? Why would we want our children to have a hero, that in real life, would go to hell?

 

As others have already said, wizards in Rowling's world (as in a lot of other fantasy) are born that way--it's not a choice they make. Harry isn't a real-life character and his kind doesn't exist. He's a fantasy being, not a human.

[LittleIzumi]

 

HP is not just speaking a language (and calling it magic), he is a sorcerer, period. If he did not repent of his ways in real life, he would go to hell, no matter what other good things he did. Doing good does not make up for the bad. Admittance and repentance does.

 

 

Except in the HP world, you can't just give up your powers. Before Harry even knew he was a wizard, he made magic things happen with no knowledge/understanding/consent on his part. If they took his wand away/if he gave up his wand after he was trained, sometimes magic would still happen when he got really emotional, whether he told it to happen or not. Sorcery is not a choice in this universe. It wouldn't be fair for God to give HP power that he can't get rid of and then send him to Hell for it. IMO.

 

Out of curiosity, given your strong opinion on the subject, do you think the Vatican is entirely in the wrong supporting the last Harry Potter movie then? I don't but I obviously feel differently than you about the matter. (I don't know if other churches have come out in support so I can't ask about others. I know mine doesn't mind it, as our closely monitored church-run university has big HP book release parties at the campus bookstores and such ;).)

[LittleIzumi]

You are missing my point entirely!

 

 

 

I typed up a good response and lost it. :crying:

 

Okay, so HP didn't have to go to a wizard school and he could have tried his best to not practive sorcery. God wouldn't give HP powers! He says it's evil and not to be done. That is why the author shouldn't have written a children's book with immoral behavior. It desensitizes the child to the evil, and it is justified. I don't see how evil behavior can be justified and I don't think God buys it either! If something is wrong, it is wrong... not wrong unless written about in a fictional account and okay if the character does nice things. I'm concerned that Christians justify it too. :confused:

 

I'm not trying to be condescending... I hope it doesn't sound that way. :grouphug:

 

Do you not read books about anything that wouldn't exist in reality and truly be created by God then? Like the Greek myths, or Roman myths, or almost every fiction story? Almost no books show the universe in an ideal CC universe, ever. We just discuss the points that are different and avoid things that are extreme or gratuitous here. Do you just not read them altogether?

[lmrich]

Based on all the Bible quotes about witches and wizards - am I supposed to think that witches and magic actually exist? I always thought that people in Biblical times (and in Salem) blamed regualr folks for the bad stuff. I would NEVER feel that when something bad happens it is the result of an evil wizard or witch. Men and women can do horrible acts without the use of magic.

[Lovedtodeath]

Based on all the Bible quotes about witches and wizards - am I supposed to think that witches and magic actually exist? I always thought that people in Biblical times (and in Salem) blamed regualr folks for the bad stuff. I would NEVER feel that when something bad happens it is the result of an evil wizard or witch. Men and women can do horrible acts without the use of magic.

Witches and magic do actually exist. They don't go around cursing crops. LOL They mostly consult with the dead, or try to use magic for healing or blessings. It was normal people who got blamed in Salem.

[Word Nerd]

You are missing my point entirely!

 

 

I would say you are missing mine. Then again, I think we understand each other fine--we just clearly see this differently. You seem to believe that fantasy worlds created by authors should be held to the same laws and structures as the real world we live in and don't make any distinction between fantasy and reality in that regard. I do see that distinction quite clearly and have no trouble differentiating between the two.

Edited November 22, 2009 by WordGirl

[LittleIzumi]

Witches and magic do actually exist. They don't go around cursing crops. LOL They mostly consult with the dead, or try to use magic for healing or blessings. It was normal people who got blamed in Salem.

 

Yep, it's real. But you're not getting the power from God, that's for sure. And poor people in Salem. Some of my ancestors were involved in the witch trials (testifying at one woman's trial that she was a normal good person, not a witch, and the case eventually went to the governor who declared she was innocent and that was the end of the witch trials at the time.)

[lionfamily1999]

I would say you are missing mine. Then again, I think we understand each other fine--we just clearly see this differently. You seem to believe that fantasy worlds created by authors should be held to the same laws and structures as the real world we live in and don't make any distinction between fantasy and reality in that regard. I do see that distinction quite clearly and have no trouble differentiating between the two.

I think the idea is not to show your kids that it is ever okay to stray from God's plan, iykwIm. Creating an alternate reality where there is no God could teach them to fantasize about the freedom of living without God (if there's no God, then I could be a magician and it would be alright!).

 

It's not that anyone is mixing fantasy with reality, rather looking at the fantasy in question and trying to see what/how it teaches our children about life in the real world and how its lessons can be related to real life. Does God want my kids fantasizing about flying around on brooms? Does God's will fit into that at all? If those are the sorts of questions you ask yourself, then HP might not fit into the 'reality' you are creating for your children.

[LittleIzumi]

I think the idea is not to show your kids that it is ever okay to stray from God's plan, iykwIm. Creating an alternate reality where there is no God could teach them to fantasize about the freedom of living without God (if there's no God, then I could be a magician and it would be alright!).

 

It's not that anyone is mixing fantasy with reality, rather looking at the fantasy in question and trying to see what/how it teaches our children about life in the real world and how its lessons can be related to real life. Does God want my kids fantasizing about flying around on brooms? Does God's will fit into that at all? If those are the sorts of questions you ask yourself, then HP might not fit into the 'reality' you are creating for your children.

 

But then if there was no God, you wouldn't exist, kiddo, so sorry, you can't be a magician if you look for an atheist universe :tongue_smilie:.

It's fantasy because it can NOT ever truly exist. In any way. We choose what parallels we draw from it. I don't think there should be a logical problem drawing that line, IMO. But if other moms prefer to avoid those discussions/thoughts altogether that's totally their prerogative. :001_smile: That's part of being a parent, choosing what you feel is right to teach/expose to your children.

[The Governess]

I have no problem with fantasy lit. I think kids are smart enough to tell the difference between what is fantasy and what is "real." I wouldn't feel comfortable let my kids read a book about modern-day people studying sorcery in a realistic sort of way that they could then decide to emulate. But Harry Potter is very different, IMO. It is a "what if" type of a book: what if some of us were born with special abilities? I don't see it as any different than any other super-hero type story. What about the Incredibles? They were born with wild abilities - I don't see how it is any different than the magic of HP. The HP characters are not trying to summon the dead or practice sorcery, they are simply using their innate abilities or "gifts" to do good in the world, and it is a very powerful lesson - choosing to be selfless and use your gifts for good rather than use them to seek personal power and glory.

 

In fact, I think that the lessons in HP and many fantasy stories would be much more difficult to get across in a realistic-type story. Fantasy sets an imaginative stage where good and evil can fight it out in ways that are bigger and more obvious than they could ever be in real-life situations. And in nearly all children's fantasy stories, good triumphs over evil. These stories encourage bravery, courage, and hopefulness as children learn to apply the lessons from the imaginary worlds to the real world.

 

I would much rather have my dd read HP or other fantasy lit than some of the other modern books out there where the hero/heroine is a spoiled, lazy, disobedient know-it-all and his/her bad qualities are presented as cute "quirks". That is what I worry about in the way the OP is worried about the HP stories. If I stripped the fantasy and the magic out of HP and put the main characters into a real-life setting, they would certainly be considered good role models. This is what I tend to focus on rather than the fantasy aspects of the story.

[Word Nerd]

Just to clarify, I am speaking as an adult. My kids are young and have not read the books, which move from middle grade to YA fiction and IMHO are more appropriate for the upper end of that range (at least the later books).

Edited November 22, 2009 by WordGirl

[lionfamily1999]

But then if there was no God, you wouldn't exist, kiddo, so sorry, you can't be a magician if you look for an atheist universe :tongue_smilie:.

It's fantasy because it can NOT ever truly exist. In any way. We choose what parallels we draw from it. I don't think there should be a logical problem drawing that line, IMO. But if other moms prefer to avoid those discussions/thoughts altogether that's totally their prerogative. :001_smile: That's part of being a parent, choosing what you feel is right to teach/expose to your children.

I agree. I understand what the other poster is getting at and I'm trying to clarify for her. I think back to the D&D days, when kids did have a problem drawing a line and I can understand a parent saying, this is not for my children, because it could warp their world view.

 

There are parallels that could be inferred that are contrary to the teachings of God. If a parent prefers not to give their children access to these parallels, before they feel they've learned enough to see through them, then I completely understand that pov.

Just to clarify, I am speaking as an adult. My kids are young and have not read the books, which move from middle grade to YA fiction and IMHO are more appropriate for the upper end of that range.

I believe her point was its effect on children, though. I doubt she's worried about her own reactions to it. :p

 

Even the original question, I took to mean as it refers to our kids. Granted, if I don't want my kids watching it, then nine times out of ten I shouldn't watch it either.

[LittleIzumi]

I have no problem with fantasy lit. I think kids are smart enough to tell the difference between what is fantasy and what is "real." I wouldn't feel comfortable let my kids read a book about modern-day people studying sorcery in a realistic sort of way that they could then decide to emulate. But Harry Potter is very different, IMO. It is a "what if" type of a book: what if some of us were born with special abilities? I don't see it as any different than any other super-hero type story. What about the Incredibles? They were born with wild abilities - I don't see how it is any different than the magic of HP. The HP characters are not trying to summon the dead or practice sorcery, they are simply using their innate abilities or "gifts" to do good in the world, and it is a very powerful lesson - choosing to be selfless and use your gifts for good rather than use them to seek personal power and glory.

 

In fact, I think that the lessons in HP and many fantasy stories would be much more difficult to get across in a realistic-type story. Fantasy sets an imaginative stage where good and evil can fight it out in ways that are bigger and more obvious than they could ever be in real-life situations. And in nearly all children's fantasy stories, good triumphs over evil. These stories encourage bravery, courage, and hopefulness as children learn to apply the lessons from the imaginary worlds to the real world.

 

I would much rather have my dd read HP or other fantasy lit than some of the other modern books out there where the hero/heroine is a spoiled, lazy, disobedient know-it-all and his/her bad qualities are presented as cute "quirks". That is what I worry about in the way the OP is worried about the HP stories. If I stripped the fantasy and the magic out of HP and put the main characters into a real-life setting, they would certainly be considered good role models. This is what I tend to focus on rather than the fantasy aspects of the story.

 

Ah, you said it way better than I did. Thanks. :001_smile:

 

Just to clarify, I am speaking as an adult. My kids are young and have not read the books, which move from middle grade to YA fiction and IMHO are more appropriate for the upper end of that range (at least the later books).

 

Yes, that too. My kids would be bored to death by HP books right now :lol: and I wouldn't read things like Greek myths to them yet either. Way too young to understand. (She knows some things are "pretend" and some are "real." But I'm not pushing it yet.)

 

FYI, in the version of the Bible written for the Celts, the Heliand, Jesus uses "Words of Power" and magic as his power from God. The term "magic" is sometimes applied to things that are NOT devil worship/seeking power from Satan. True power-seeking is definitely evil, but not everything that uses the word "magic" is talking about that. It's like the PP said, it's treated like superhero powers in HP, where you don't have the choice about whether you have the gift or not--just how you use it. And some use it for light and good and some use it for evil. That power she invented for the books does not exist in this world, anywhere at any time.

 

Okay, I think I'm probably done on this thread. I feel like I'm just repeating myself over and over :tongue_smilie:

[LittleIzumi]

I agree. I understand what the other poster is getting at and I'm trying to clarify for her. I think back to the D&D days, when kids did have a problem drawing a line and I can understand a parent saying, this is not for my children, because it could warp their world view.

 

There are parallels that could be inferred that are contrary to the teachings of God. If a parent prefers not to give their children access to these parallels, before they feel they've learned enough to see through them, then I completely understand that pov.

 

I believe her point was its effect on children, though. I doubt she's worried about her own reactions to it. :p

 

Even the original question, I took to mean as it refers to our kids. Granted, if I don't want my kids watching it, then nine times out of ten I shouldn't watch it either.

 

Now that, I agree with completely.

 

(Actually we play D&D with a bunch of other church members. :tongue_smilie: But the kids don't. Obviously. Way way way too young. She still doesn't get the rules to Hi-Ho Cherry-O :lol:)

[lionfamily1999]

Now that, I agree with completely.

 

(Actually we play D&D with a bunch of other church members. :tongue_smilie: But the kids don't. Obviously. Way way way too young. She still doesn't get the rules to Hi-Ho Cherry-O :lol:)

I played 'Magic' in high school :p It didn't make me crazy and I didn't end up killing myself or anyone else ;) I do, however, totally understand how a parent could see wisdom in 'protecting' their kids from those things.

[Word Nerd]

Nah. On second thought, I'm done. :)

Edited November 22, 2009 by WordGirl

[Donna T.]

[quote name=Devotional Soul;1334121Harry Potter is full of satanic and sexual subliminal messages and symbolism and mind control on unconscious and conscious levels' date=' but so is most of what is directed at our kids these days. Once you have an eye for it, you can see how Mystery Babylon The Great is infiltrating everything these days.

 

 

:iagree:

 

Well, I personally think this generation of kids, maybe their kids, I'm not into setting a date, is being prepped for the Tribulation, during which time marks (somewhat like Harry has - a lightening bolt, which is a symbol of occultic "enlightenment" - Satan is known to come with a feeling of electricity and the Bible says he fell like lightening) and vampirism will be perfectly "acceptable" and normal practices. The kids are being conditioned to call evil good. That's my opinion.

[Donna T.]

HP, LOR, and Narnia books are all okay in my house since they uphold the basic truth that there is a struggle between good and evil.

 

But, should Christians be entertained by the struggle between good and evil? Isn't that why the Lord was crucified? Didn't he liberate us from that struggle?

[WishboneDawn]

:iagree:

 

Well, I personally think this generation of kids, maybe their kids, I'm not into setting a date, is being prepped for the Tribulation, during which time marks (somewhat like Harry has - a lightening bolt, which is a symbol of occultic "enlightenment" - Satan is known to come with a feeling of electricity and the Bible says he fell like lightening) and vampirism will be perfectly "acceptable" and normal practices. The kids are being conditioned to call evil good. That's my opinion.

 

Again, subliminal messages don't work. It's an urban myth. If the argument against HP is based on subliminal messages then it really has no base at all.

[Crimson Wife]

But, should Christians be entertained by the struggle between good and evil? Isn't that why the Lord was crucified? Didn't he liberate us from that struggle?

 

Christ did not take away our sinful nature- He just took away the punishment for sin. Each of us is born with Original Sin and therefore we will struggle with temptation. We know that Christ is victorious over sin but that doesn't liberate us from having to endure the struggle between good & evil. That's why we pray in the Our Father the bit about leading us not into temptation & delivering us from evil.

[katemary63]

I'm a pretty conservative Christian and have watched all the Harry Potter movies myself. But I'm an adult. Those movies are WAY to intense and dark for little ones, in my opinion. When my kids get older, and I'm talking 15-16 years old, if they are interested in the fantasy genre, like I am, I'll let them watch the HP movies. But there's no way I'd consider it for anyone smaller. They're just too frightening.

 

I understand and respect your opinon. However, it is AMAZING how different the idea of "frightening" can be to one individual compared to another. You must have a low tolerance for "frightning" material, (nothing wrong with that, just saying) as must a few others who have posted. Our family finds these movies very entertaining and sorta low on the "frightning" scale. I'm just pointing out that "frightning" is a VERY subjective criteria and not at all easy to come to an agreement on. My DD8 has watched HP movies, LOTR and many others for a couple of years now and LOVES them. The "scary" parts are actually fun to some people. We JUMP out of our skins, and then laugh at our own reaction. Now, we don't go for horror type scary movies, but our whole family LIKES suspense and scary to a point and are quite relaxed about it. I think part of it is that we do see these movies as complete fantasy and are not genuinley scared by things that happen in a movie that we KNOW can not happen in real life. It's like going to a haunted house. Some people are genuinely petrified when the guy in a mask with a chain saw jumps out from around the corner. Others can relax in their knowledge that this is not a real situation and can't wait to be "scared" by the next thing down the hall. Everybody's different...To each his own!

Edited November 22, 2009 by katemary63

[Word Nerd]

Look how all the HP fans think sorcery used for good is okay. They like HP and justify the things he does and accept them as good, not evil.

 

Do you believe that many Christians similarly "justify" the use of magic by Santa Claus, Cinderella's fairy godmother, Luke Skywalker, Gandalf, Jack (of beanstalk fame) and many other fairy tale heroes and heroines, Disney characters, and superheroes, some of whom do have magical powers?

[Word Nerd]

Yes, I do.

 

I don't tell my kids about Santa (for many reasons), and I do not allow them to watch movies/shows where the good character uses magic/witchcraft/sorcery. As far as, say, Mickey Mouse, we don't have any movies where he does wizardry (sp?), but I know he is a wizard sometimes, so we avoid the movies where he is.

 

I appreciate your consistency in applying those standards!

[lionfamily1999]

Do you believe that many Christians similarly "justify" the use of magic by Santa Claus, Cinderella's fairy godmother, Luke Skywalker, Gandalf, Jack (of beanstalk fame) and many other fairy tale heroes and heroines, Disney characters, and superheroes, some of whom do have magical powers?

Interesting aside... In the Chronicles, Santa is used to represent the Holy Spirit. He gives gifts that the kids need to face what Aslan has in store for them. I just found that very interesting and wanted to share :p

[Ginevra]

Interesting aside... In the Chronicles, Santa is used to represent the Holy Spirit. He gives gifts that the kids need to face what Aslan has in store for them. I just found that very interesting and wanted to share

 

Interesting take on that. I never considered that part to be representing the Holy Spirit. It was just "Father Christmas". Then again, I have never done in-depth study on Narnia. Just thoroughly enjoyed reading the series.

[lionfamily1999]

Interesting take on that. I never considered that part to be representing the Holy Spirit. It was just "Father Christmas". Then again, I have never done in-depth study on Narnia. Just thoroughly enjoyed reading the series.

I really can't recommend "Roar" enough (for Christian families). I love the Chronicles, always have. The connections and lessons they give really add to it. I think I learned more about God between "Roar," TMN, and TLtWatW, than I did in all the years of church attendance as a kid. I can't speak to ds, but I do believe it's given him a better grasp on a lot of the heavier ideas.

[Guest Katia]

Harry Potter is full of satanic and sexual subliminal messages and symbolism and mind control on unconscious and conscious levels, but so is most of what is directed at our kids these days.

 

 

:lol::lol: This is the funniest thing I've read in a long time. DD and I are literally rolling on the floor. Thanks for a good belly-laugh! :lol:

[Amy1k]

This thread is melting my brain.

[Karen_OK]

This topic just came up in our small group Bible Study last night. I have wrestled with this myself. Even though it is fantasy, and some characters use their powers for "good", we must ask ourselves and challenge our children to think about where those powers come from. Would they come from God? I think not. I can't find the scripture reference right now, but I believe there is a verse that warns us not to dabble in sorcery. I think that allowing ourselves to be entertained by movies centered around wizardry violates that warning.

[OnTheBrink]

I don't have any real issues with HP. To me, it's an issue of personal preference and conviction. My dd isn't interested in it at all, so it's a non-issue in my house. My dd does, however, have a real sensitivity to images, so even LOTR is scary to her.

 

The Bible's admonishment to abstain from the appearance of evil means to not do things that appear to be evil. If it meant to never look at anything evil, we'd never be able to look at anything at all. The world, in and of itself, is evil.

 

As for Desperate Housewives, I've gone back and forth over this. Yes, those characters do some pretty selfish and sinful things. And, consequences follow, which I think is a good thing. But, I consider that particular show to be a satire or characterization of the evil in our own hearts. It just seems to surface a LOT on Wisteria Lane. LOL I don't judge those who don't care for it. Again, issue of personal conviction. It doesn't incite me to want to have an affair, kill my neighbor, lie to my boss or any such thing. I can come up with those ideas on my own quite well. As can we all. ;)

[Mrs Mungo]

I have to respectfully disagree with this.

 

Also, we are to guard our eyegates and our eargates... anyone know the verse this comes from?

 

It comes from one of John Bunyan's books. I've seen this idea applied to everything from ancient literature (like Medea) and Shakespeare (I know more than one mom that doesn't allow Shakespeare due to witches and ghosts) to LOTR and Harry Potter. I think fantasy is fantasy and kids are not stupid. Harry Potter is nothing like actual witchcraft, the two could not possibly be confused. The "powers" in Harry Potter come from the same place as "the Force" in Star Wars-a human imagination.

 

We allow fantasy. I understand someone avoiding it as a personal conviction due to their own leanings or struggles.

[LauraGB]

I think fantasy is fantasy and kids are not stupid.

 

I keep coming back to this, too. I don't understand not appreciating the gift of independant thought.

 

However, I must say that this thread is the first time I have ever actually understood the other side of the argument. There have been several posts that really explain the point well, and I'm glad to have been able to read these POVs.

 

It has been my experience irl that most people who frown upon HP haven't read it and don't *really* understand themselves why its so bad, and therefore can't explain it, either. Obviously, that is not all Christians opposed, just (and I can confidently say this) most of them. I have one friend who is absolutely convinced I (and my entire family, for that matter) am headed straight for hell because we enjoy the stories so much. Her explanation? Because her church says so. That's it. That's all she has for such a horrible accusation. She's never even so much as read the back of the book jacket herself, has no *real* reason to believe as she does - just because some other Christians told her to. I can honestly say, I lost a lot of respect for her due to that. How is she using her gift of independant thought?

 

I also have another friend who is so wise and so grounded in her faith who was opposed to HP, too. She is a non-judgemental, understanding, wonderful person with whom I've had some fantastic discussions regarding this. She read the books after these discussions and she enjoyed them. I really think there is no place in hell for this woman, even though she read a children's book about a child who defeated the bad guy.

 

In the end, for the op, I hope you use your own personal judgement in your decision regarding this. Whatever you decide will be the right decision for your family and should be respected.

[OnTheBrink]

I have to respectfully disagree with this.

 

Also, we are to guard our eyegates and our eargates... anyone know the verse this comes from?

 

That has nothing to do with not appearing to do evil.

 

And, your convictions are thus, however, that doesn't allow you the right to judge those whose convictions are different or to keep hammering your convictions into the ground. The OP asked for opinions, not arguments.

[Guest Katia]

Harry Potter is nothing like actual witchcraft, the two could not possibly be confused. The "powers" in Harry Potter come from the same place as "the Force" in Star Wars-a human imagination.

 

 

 

Finally. A voice of reason. Thank you.

 

The idea that somehow Harry Potter is actually a real wizard and actually learns spells is simply ludicrous. There is NO correlation between the witchcraft and sorcery mentioned in the Bible and the pretend stuff that goes on in Harry Potter.

 

You know, eons ago when HP first came out, there were several practicing witches on this board, and they let everyone know, without a doubt, that what they did in their religious practice and what happens in the Harry Potter books have absolutely nothing in common.

 

So, the idea that Christians who support or argue 'for' Harry Potter are somehow ignoring Scripture is simply not true, because what is addressed in the Bible is NOT what is in Harry Potter. It's not real. It has no basis in reality and resembles nothing of witchcraft and/or sorcery. Therefore, I fail to see what there is to debate.

 

Decide if you want your kids/family to read it or not; sure. But to try and make a spiritual issue out of it? Not here.

[Word Nerd]

Finally. A voice of reason. Thank you.

 

 

Finally?!? Though she stated them quite well, Mrs. Mungo is certainly not the only poster in this thread who has made these same points. Quite a few of us did, actually.

[OnTheBrink]

Where did I say that it did? I said I respectfully disagreed with what you said and then brought up another point.

 

Also, where did I judge anyone? Maybe you should go back and read all of my posts and you'll see that I didn't. Or do you feel I was judgemental because I disagreed with you?

 

I have read your posts. Here and in other threads. I've noticed you get a bit forceful with your opinions when other Christians hold different convictions than you do. Just an observation.

 

And, you can disagree with me all you like. It doesn't affect me personally at all. The fact you've posted your position several times in this thread sure appears as if you're really wanting everyone else to agree with YOU. And, again, the OP asked for opinions/reasons, not debate.

 

Personally, I'm completely confident in my own convictions and couldn't care less whose convictions are different. I'm not into majoring in the minors and I'm not any one else's holy spirit.

[Mrs Mungo]

:iagree:

 

Well, I personally think this generation of kids, maybe their kids, I'm not into setting a date, is being prepped for the Tribulation, during which time marks (somewhat like Harry has - a lightening bolt, which is a symbol of occultic "enlightenment" - Satan is known to come with a feeling of electricity and the Bible says he fell like lightening) and vampirism will be perfectly "acceptable" and normal practices. The kids are being conditioned to call evil good. That's my opinion.

 

Vampires are always about sex.

 

Well said. Thinking/fantasizing about sinning is just as bad as sinning, isn't it? It's the intent. I don't see how it makes sense to let children read about stuff you wouldn't want them to do in real life.

 

How can doing magic in the way Harry Potter does magic be a "sin" when it doesn't exist?

 

 

Is HP gettting his power from God? I don't think so, as God would never give him that power!

 

There is a difference in a superhero and HP. HP uses magic/sorcery/witchcraft. Batman does not. :tongue_smilie:

 

Batman isn't a superhero in the classic sense, he has gadgets, not powers. What about Superman? Is planet Krypton a euphemism for hell?

 

 

Look how all the HP fans think sorcery used for good is okay. They like HP and justify the things he does and accept them as good, not evil.

 

Real life sorcery and imaginary magic are not the same thing, at all.

 

No one here said he is a real-life wizard!

 

Yes, I think that is what you implied, above.

 

Word Girl-sorry, I didn't mean to steal anyone's thunder by blustering into the thread. :)

[The Governess]

Finally?!? Though she stated them quite well, Mrs. Mungo is certainly not the only poster in this thread who has made these same points. Quite a few of us did, actually.

 

:iagree: (and I also agree that Mrs. Mungo is a voice of reason :D).

[Guest Katia]

 

 

How can doing magic in the way Harry Potter does magic be a "sin" when it doesn't exist?

 

Real life sorcery and imaginary magic are not the same thing, at all.

 

 

 

Yes, yes, and....double yes.

[Guest Katia]

No one here said he is a real-life wizard!

 

 

Really? You are giving him real wizarding power in your arguments. Isn't that the same thing?

[Guest Katia]

Finally?!? Though she stated them quite well, Mrs. Mungo is certainly not the only poster in this thread who has made these same points. Quite a few of us did, actually.

 

 

Oh, I know. Sorry if what I said hurt your feelings, but the way Mrs. Mungo stated it was so clear to me, kwim? I wasn't going to post at all in this thread. Anymore, I find these arguments that somehow HP is the same witchcraft/sorcery that is mentioned in the Bible to be quite amusing, so I tend to read, giggle, and just stay out of it.

 

I'll be happy to go back into lurkdom and let you continue the great job you are doing. Thanks!

[Word Nerd]

Word Girl-sorry, I didn't mean to steal anyone's thunder by blustering into the thread. :)

 

No worries, but considering how out there a couple of the arguments made in this thread have been, I didn't particularly want to be grouped in with all the previous commenters.

[Mrs Mungo]

No worries, but considering how out there a couple of the arguments made in this thread have been, I didn't particularly want to be grouped in with all the previous commenters.

 

This seriously made me laugh loud enough my kids came over to the computer. :lol:

[OnTheBrink]

Uh, hello! If you look at the post just below your post (the one I am quoting) you might notice that people are talking to me. So I respond. Didn't realize that was being forceful with my opinions! :001_rolleyes:

 

Your post was so judgemental of me, yet you say everyone else is judgemental. You have me all summed up don't you? :001_huh:

 

You and I can just ignore each other from this point on.

 

Good grief. :chillpill:

 

I don't agree with you. So what? I said earlier that I have no judgment over people who have different convictions, and I don't. YOu are free to not watch HP all you like and I guarantee you, it doesn't affect me in any way. You are the one getting all upset.

[lionfamily1999]

I have read your posts. Here and in other threads. I've noticed you get a bit forceful with your opinions when other Christians hold different convictions than you do. Just an observation.

 

And, you can disagree with me all you like. It doesn't affect me personally at all. The fact you've posted your position several times in this thread sure appears as if you're really wanting everyone else to agree with YOU. And, again, the OP asked for opinions/reasons, not debate.

 

Personally, I'm completely confident in my own convictions and couldn't care less whose convictions are different. I'm not into majoring in the minors and I'm not any one else's holy spirit.

I don't know, it does seem like some of the responses she's garnered were pretty judgemental and from what I've read of her posts, she's just defending her pov. Maybe she got a little defensive?

 

Poor poster's been called everything but a moron. I don't blame her for getting a little zealous in her responses. Maybe, if everyone agreed that there's no need for debate there wouldn't be one?

 

Eh, just a thought.

[Mrs Mungo]

No, that's how you interpreted it.

 

 

 

Guys, that isn't what I'm saying at all. Your missing my point. It's the same as giving a kid a book where the hero does any sin. They didn't really sin in real life, but in the book they commit the sin. Why expose your child to any sin? Just for fun? It doesn't make sense to me at all. If a person would be seen as a sinner in real life, why let them read about it in a fake scenario? That is my point. We know HP isn't a real person, but if he was, he would be a sinner. Period. At this point I'm afraid to argue this any further because apparently that is being "forceful". Funny how everyone with the opposite point view that continues to discuss it isn't being forceful...

 

In my view your argument fails because the book is about something that doesn't exist. You can't say that something imaginary is sinful, that's just silly. It's like saying owning a unicorn is sinful.

[Guest Katia]

No, that's how you interpreted it.

 

 

 

Guys, that isn't what I'm saying at all. Your missing my point. It's the same as giving a kid a book where the hero does any sin. They didn't really sin in real life, but in the book they commit the sin. Why expose your child to any sin? Just for fun? It doesn't make sense to me at all. If a person would be seen as a sinner in real life, why let them read about it in a fake scenario? That is my point. We know HP isn't a real person, but if he was, he would be a sinner. Period. At this point I'm afraid to argue this any further because apparently that is being "forceful". Funny how everyone with the opposite point view that continues to discuss it isn't being forceful...

 

This must be where the problem lies. Harry Potter is not a sinner. He doesn't commit sins of any kind. He is a child/teen that doesn't always make the right choices/decisions, but he pays the consequences for those choices, just like the rest of us do.

 

What, besides NOT performing Biblicial witchcraft or sorcery, do you think Harry Potter does that is so sinful?

[Mrs Mungo]

She didn't ask why some Christians allow their kids watch HP. I thought this was for those of us who are against it to tell why we don't.

 

I thought the title of the thread combined with the post implied she was looking for both points of view.

[Mrs Mungo]

So HP is a sorcerer that doesn't perform sorcery? :confused:

 

Sorcery from a Biblical standpoint is something *real*. It is generally understood to mean communicating with the dead, predicting the future and casting spells (in real witchcraft this is similar to saying prayers but to spirits that are not God), using familiars, etc. Many Christians today teach their kids that these things are not real-that they are fake. I disagree with that. I think they *are* real but to be avoided. But, if you believe those things are fake then it's easy to see why you would confuse it with other things that are fake.

[OnTheBrink]

Jinnah, you are just wrong. Go back and read the thread. My initial post on this topic didn't quote you, single you out or address you. You quoted me right after my initial post (um, singling me out, maybe?) and disagreed; I responded. If you feel so personally attacked by me, I invite you to report that heinous post to the mods.