BMW Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 OKay, I've come a loooong way when it comes to dealing with this. Yes, you may give applause! I used to take it quite personally and get very angry with the child and want to punish away... I still give some consequences... like, losing a priviledge. But, recently 2 sons have lied. One to avoid work. Another becuase he knew he did something wrong to begin with and lied to cover it up. I called him on the lie and he admits to it. His consequence is not being able to be out of the room with me for some period of time because his initial rule-breaking was getting into storage tubs in the side yard. But, I was thinking about lying in general. Sometimes I think that the boys just don't realize that it's not nice to be lied to. And I got this thought... what if they were lied to? Maybe if they could relate to getting lied to a couple of times and we discussed it, they would be able to make better choices? I am not a liar. I give my kids the truth even if it makes me uncomfortable. I believe lying is wrong. But, I am wondering... It would be kind of like in those old storybooks of long ago... the child keeps taking the biggest and best piece for themselves, so the parent makes sure the biggest and best piece is prepared to taste not too good... and the child learns a lesson... So, would there be a good lesson in a child being told a lie and then the child realizing it and the parent discussing how lies make us feel bad? How it makes you feel bad to be lied to? These boys are 10 and 12. They just don't care that they lie. Any ideas/thoughts/concerns?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth Conley Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 It seems worth a shot. I'd start with "We're going out to Dairy Queen for dessert tonight." Followed after supper with: "Just kidding." Go for it. Tell us how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) In our house, lying gets you double the punishment/consequence. Lying to avoid work would get you twice that much work. Lying to avoid the punishment for wrong-doing would net you double the punishment. Being completely honest and responsible for your own misbehavior right away, gets you a reduced sentence in our home. This has worked well for us. I'm worried that you lying to them as a sort of lesson would backfire. For example, my husband's half-brothers used to tease each other and him something horrible so Dad decided to tease them. He drove into the McDonald's drive thru, sat and waited, took everyone's orders and when he got up to the window, laughed and kept on driving. All my husband remembers is the horrible feeling of his Dad totally lying to him. 15 years later his Dad explained to him the situation with his older brothers but frankly, NONE of the family remembered the original context but they all remembered the event. Personally, I think it is better to model honesty. You can share experiences of others who have lied and the consequences of that behavior. You can try to make them understand how it would feel, but personally I could never lie to my children. Edited November 17, 2009 by Daisy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraGB Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Personally, I think it is better to model honesty. You can share experiences of others who have lied and the consequences of that behavior. You can try to make them understand how it would feel, but personally I could never lie to my children. :iagree: Can you find some real life examples to share with them where people were physically injured because someone lied or someone lost thier job because some one else lied and thier family ended up homeless, or friend says he wasn't drinking and drives his friends home only to crash the car and leave his friend horribly injured... something along those lines? Some stories that go beyond hurt feelings, that have had serious consequences that far outweigh anything Mom is going to pull out. I've done this. Sometimes real, tangible gravity speaks volumes to kids because there is so much they just don't know can happen with lying; thier experiences are slim to have learned it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 The Hive of Busy Bees book has a good chapter on lying. The Book of Virtues has some good stories in it too. And the book of Proverbs is a great one to study about this topic and other topics related to a godly character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrissiK Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I hate lying, too. I really hate it. There are consequences for lying in our house, but another thing we do is really make it a point to show the kids we don't trust them because they have lied before. Now, this doesn't go on and on, obviously, but on any given day, if there's a lie told, then for the rest of the day it is emphasized that, "Why should I believe what you are saying to me now? You lied to me earlier today!" We are trying to get the kids (they're 5 & 6) to get the idea that trust is built and if you have a reputation for lying you will not be believed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerdingCats Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Lying is on the BIG no-no list around here. It is one of my (can't think of stronger word) pet peeves. My kids have all done it. It hasn't been totally eradicated, but we have made it clear in our family that it's not just a little issue and they know that. I will tell you what I have done. It may sound a bit heavy, but I don't typically frame all discipline this way, so the point is made even more so. I remind them who is the "father of lies." Now, I am not a fire and brimstone parent in the least, but like I said, it is a biggie around here. I remind them because I want them to know that Satan can gain a foothold in their lives starting with just a little lie. We do model honesty around here as well, which also helps. But understanding that the lie effects THEM adversely, not just other people, gets them really thinking. Dh and I are both from families with addiction issues (lying goes hand in hand), so it is more than just "not nice" behavior. It can really be a stronghold. HTH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inactive Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 :iagree:Can you find some real life examples to share with them where people were physically injured because someone lied or someone lost thier job because some one else lied and thier family ended up homeless, or friend says he wasn't drinking and drives his friends home only to crash the car and leave his friend horribly injured... something along those lines? Some stories that go beyond hurt feelings, that have had serious consequences that far outweigh anything Mom is going to pull out. I've done this. Sometimes real, tangible gravity speaks volumes to kids because there is so much they just don't know can happen with lying; thier experiences are slim to have learned it yet. :iagree: I would *NEVER* lie to a child to teach them a lesson... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 I wouldn't think that I would do this, either. But, one particular boy shows such a "I could care less" attitude about lying. He really, really does not care how lying affects someone else. Most consequences rarely phase him, either. He simply doesn't care. That's why I thought, "Well, if HE gets lied to, maybe he could start to understand what we keep trying to teach..." The other boy is known to lie about a sibling to try to get them in trouble and make them look bad... he has been caught doing this with this very intent multiple times... And so I thought, "If he gets lied about and knew how that makes his brothers feel... maybe he'll stop." IF I was to do something like this... which I am not sure that I would do... it would be thought out well and handled immediately. I wouldn't do a "drive through" scenario, for sure... I don't see it as lying as much as I see the entire "episode" as a lesson. Anyway... that's why I asked... for input... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alenee Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Parents have a hard enough job of keeping their children's trust. IMO, don't do it. Like another poster said, the kids remembered the event, rather than the situation that led to the event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inactive Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I wouldn't think that I would do this, either. But, one particular boy shows such a "I could care less" attitude about lying. He really, really does not care how lying affects someone else. Most consequences rarely phase him, either. He simply doesn't care. That's why I thought, "Well, if HE gets lied to, maybe he could start to understand what we keep trying to teach..." The other boy is known to lie about a sibling to try to get them in trouble and make them look bad... he has been caught doing this with this very intent multiple times... And so I thought, "If he gets lied about and knew how that makes his brothers feel... maybe he'll stop." IF I was to do something like this... which I am not sure that I would do... it would be thought out well and handled immediately. I wouldn't do a "drive through" scenario, for sure... I don't see it as lying as much as I see the entire "episode" as a lesson. Anyway... that's why I asked... for input... OK -- I sort of see your logic...**BUT** what do you do when, down the road, your sons don't trust/believe YOU because you lied to them?? BTW, I have a daughter that is a repeat offender in this area...she knows straight out that we don't/can't trust her -- because she has lied before...repeatedly. She has lost about every privilege known to man...she knows that she has to earn our trust back by being honest -- REPEATEDLY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa in Jax Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Here's an example: When it's time to eat, ask what he wants for breakfast/lunch/dinner. Then, give him something DIFFERENT. When he says, "Mom, I said 'waffles,' not eggs," you matter-of-factly reply, "OH? I thought you were lying when you asked for waffles." Don't say anything more. Don't fix a different meal -- just let it be. Let him think about it. Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalknot Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 But, I was thinking about lying in general. Sometimes I think that the boys just don't realize that it's not nice to be lied to. And I got this thought... what if they were lied to? Maybe if they could relate to getting lied to a couple of times and we discussed it, they would be able to make better choices? I am not a liar. I give my kids the truth even if it makes me uncomfortable. I believe lying is wrong. But, I am wondering... I can see the temptation! I think this method would even work with a certain personality type. A controlled experience to drive the point home, for someone who can separate emotion from experience and understand the point behind the exercise. But not all personality types could handle it, as suggested by other posters. Just like when some people find out there is no "real" Santa Claus, they can't separate the emotion from the experience of finding out -- the emotional aspect (I was lied to! By my own parents!!) overwhelms the actual experience, the point of which is then lost. Just depends on your kids. In our house, one consequence for lying is to read aloud The Boy Who Cried Wolf. My kids hate that story, but they have it completely memorized! Then we discuss it. They have that part memorized, too LOL. If I'm feeling particularly clever, I make them re-enact it after dinner. It's one of those things that is difficult to teach. We are exposed to lies on such a regular basis (marketing, hearing other adults) and sometimes even tell lies ourselves that the kids witness (white lies that we think are harmless). It's tricky water to navigate, especially for kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I think a better approach might be having the boys research liars. I mean the biggies, those folks that lied and it became a national phenomenon (balloon boy, for instance). Let them see the consequences of telling lies. A nice paragraph on one big fat liar and how things could've been different had they told the truth could change their perspective. I would worry that you fibbing could be misconstrued and make it a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicAnn Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Generally I don't like the idea of lying to let them know how it feels, but here are some suggestions .... Could you have someone else lie to them? So they get what it feels like, but it not you that they distrust. I wouldn't ask a family member to do this either. Another idea is to lie to them in an outrageous fashion so they know it is a lie. "Don't go out on the porch, there are purple penguins playing with frisbees out there." When they say "that's not true" then say "yes people can tell when you are lying" and let them think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5LittleMonkeys Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I agree with lionfamily and eternalknot. In fact I have had to use both of these ideas with one of my dc while she was in ps over 2 years ago. I think one of the things that worked well for us in getting her to stop lying was my attitude towards it. Although it is considered in our house to be one of the worst offenses, I kept my cool and dealt with it as a habit she needed help in breaking rather than just a misbehavior. I sat down with her and told her that she was harming her family and herself and that as her parent I couldn't stand by and allow her to continue on the path she was on because I loved her too much. I explained to her that it would take her 30 days to break the habit and that I would do everything I could to help her. During that 30 days if she lied she had to read The Boy Who Cried Wolf out loud to the whole family followed by a formal apology to the family and then she had a natural consequence directly related to the lie. After a week the lying came almost to a complete stop but I continued the rest of the 30 days with having her read stories about famous liers, investigate why people lie, made of list of why she felt the need to tell certain lies and also had her conduct interviews with everyone in the family that was affected by her lies to find out how they were affected by the lie and how it made them feel. I never gave her the impression that she was bad for lying, it was seen as a habit and a weakness that she needed help with but that there were consequences she had to face if she succumbed to the temptation. Toward the end of the 30 days she actually came to me one day and said, "Mom, K.. made me really angry and I feel the temptation to tell her a lie to get back at her so could I bake a cake or something to keep my mind off of it?" EUREKA! I gave her the tools to analyze and self correct her behavior. I know this probably wouldn't work with every child but so glad it worked with mine. Maybe something of this might work with your dc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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