Mom-ninja. Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 How do you feel about the new orthodontic method of expanding the palate? I haven't decided how I feel yet. I'm pretty sure it will be recommended for my ds. As a child I just had teeth extracted to make room to straighten my teeth. I don't suffer any ill effects from it being done. However, I've heard about problems with expansion such as a higher chance of teeth shifting back even years later. I've also heard of the rare joint condition, and that scares me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holiztic Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I don't know anything about the "new" method, but just wanted to say that the newest "Wise Traditions" journal of the Weston A Price Foundation has a fascinating discussion of palate widening in 2 identical twins: one had teeth removed, the other wore a device of some sort. The after pics (a year or two time span, I think) is INCREDIBLE. I mean, INCREDIBLE! See if you can get your hands on a copy, well worth it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) What was the difference? I looked on the website for Wise Traditions and it looks like the last journal was Winter 2007. Edited November 4, 2009 by Kleine Hexe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraGB Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Ds had this put in about 2 years ago. His teeth were crowded, but mostly we chose to do it at that age because his airway was too narrow (even after getting his tonsils removed). After several months, he had brackets put on the top front 6 teeth to pull them into place. The expander came out after about a year, the brackets came off about 6 months after that. He has beautiful teeth and there is definitely more room for them. He has to wear a retainer (only at night now) to keep his teeth from shifting. He didn't wear it for about 3 months :glare:, and his teeth did shift some, but not much, so we had a new retainer made last week. Overall, I am glad we did it when we did (he already had most of his adult teeth by that time and there really really was no room for them), his breathing is 100% easier, and he was young enough to think all that metal was cool instead of being self conscious about it. I must say, though, that after he had gotten it in, I was ready to cry because it looked like some medieval torture device! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacie Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I have one son recently finished with his expander. The difference is fabulous. He was uncomfortable for about a week getting used to the appliance, but we expanded him at a gentle rate and did it daily. He has always had sinus problems, which seem to have disappeared and his nasal breathing is much improved. His facial structure is slightly different and better, imo. He told me there was no pain, only a little pressure when we keyed it open. If you decide to allow him one, do your research on the orthodontist. Get recommendations, talk to people about their experiences, and meet with more than one doctor. Find out his treatment plan and methodology (braces/expansion combo, expansion followed by braces down the road, rapid expansion or slower expansion, etc.) Your son is young enough that he should only need the expander and possibly braces but the longer you wait the greater your chance of the palate fusing and losing the window for the expander appliance. The next option is for surgical expansion, which I'd personally never allow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertDweller Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 My dd had to wear a palate expander when she was only about seven. Her case is a bit different, but I'm extremely grateful for it's use. She had an underbite. I guess not so long ago it was fairly common to break the jaw and adjust it for correction. In her case, the orthodontist used the palate expander to loosen her palate and head gear to pull the upper jaw forward. It took about a year and had to be done when she was young before the palate fused together. Then, several years later he finished correcting the underbite and straightened her teeth with braces. I know he uses her case as one of his examples at seminars to show how well it worked. The results are impressive. In her case, the jaw has held and she has a wonderful smile. She only just got her braces off in the last year. We'll have to wait to see if there are any problems down the road, but so far, so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraGB Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 My dd had to wear a palate expander when she was only about seven. She had an underbite. I guess not so long ago it was fairly common to break the jaw and adjust it for correction. In her case, the orthodontist used the palate expander to loosen her palate and head gear to pull the upper jaw forward. It took about a year and had to be done when she was young before the palate fused together. Then, several years later he finished correcting the underbite and straightened her teeth with braces. This reminded me that ds had a crossbite, too,and he did need to wear the headgear at night as well for the first several months. He no longer has a crossbite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyGrace Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Kleine Hexe-which ds-the 8 or the 5? Just wondering because it is recommended for my ds (almost 7) and I've been putting it off (will be so tough on our finances!), but now the posts about "missing the window" make me think we'd better visit the ortho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I looked like Howdy-Doody for a period of time as it created a big gap between my front teeth. It was a bit painful (think sinus headache) when I turned the key to adjust it, but not terrible. As I said, I did this at the age of 21 for a period of 6 months or so. I'm not sure that there is an age when using an expander is ruled out. As soon as it was removed, the gap closed and I had braces for 18 months. I still wear and retainer at night. K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacie Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 There's one more thing you'll find out if you get him an expander. After you finish keying it open and the palate is the proper width, the expander should remain in place for another few months. Removing it too early before the palate is set can cause it to shrink back. The pressure from expanding is over, but the annoying appliance stays for a little longer. The gap that develops between the front teeth can close in over time even without braces because the gum tissue adjusts and pulls back on the teeth, or so our doctor explained it. Ask lots of questions and don't be afraid of questioning everything. It's worth it to get the information beforehand so you can prepare your son and yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacie Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I looked like Howdy-Doody for a period of time as it created a big gap between my front teeth. It was a bit painful (think sinus headache) when I turned the key to adjust it' date=' but not terrible. As I said, I did this at the age of 21 for a period of 6 months or so. I'm not sure that there is an age when using an expander is ruled out. As soon as it was removed, the gap closed and I had braces for 18 months. I still wear and retainer at night. K[/quote'] I found this site which explains the age recommendations, but I've also heard several cases where older patients outside the "window" have had success with it. I'm glad yours worked out and it's nice to hear another success story! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I so wish I did. I have had braces twice and have had 4 teeth removed. Now at 43, I have a problem with gum loss, because my teeth are too close to the edge of my bones - also quite a bit of sensitivity. And guess what? Because they didn't really fix the problem (narrow palate), despite having straight teeth when each set of braces came off - they keep reverting to crooked! My bottom teeth in front do not look like I've had braces. My top teeth are starting to look that way also. My arch is still ok, so I am not having bite issues, but darn - two sets of braces and I still have crooked teeth!! I can't get braces again (thanks to the words of an honest ortho.), because my teeth are so close to the edge of my bones, they may get loose and fall out! My youngest has my mouth. He had palate expanders on both top and bottom. Best thing I could have done for him - I shopped for orthos who wouldn't pull teeth. Both my kids go to this wonderful ortho who says pulling teeth affects your appearance negatively, much later (think now for me, I'm guessing). Just thought I'd pass this on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smrtmama Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 How do you feel about the new orthodontic method of expanding the palate? I haven't decided how I feel yet. I'm pretty sure it will be recommended for my ds. As a child I just had teeth extracted to make room to straighten my teeth. I don't suffer any ill effects from it being done. However, I've heard about problems with expansion such as a higher chance of teeth shifting back even years later. I've also heard of the rare joint condition, and that scares me. Using a palate expander is what saved me from having to have major jaw/facial surgery as an adult. It needs to be done slowly and retainers should be used for as long as possible (at night, at least) to keep the teeth from shifting back, but it definitely works. I've seen no ill effects from it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlockOfSillies Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I just had a consultation with an ortho for my dd10. There are braces now that self-adjust, and help expand the palate and straighten the teeth all at once. The mfr claims that the total treatment time is less than with standard braces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I guess not so long ago it was fairly common to break the jaw and adjust it for correction. For dd with a crossbite, it was the expander vs the procedure above when she got old enough. We considered it the expander a great option! This was the recommendation of three orthodontists, 2 consulting dentists and two oral surgeons. We felt that we had plenty of second opinions, LOL! She has been out of the expander for two years, is about to enter phase 2 orthodontics, and is on her way to a gorgeous, confident smile. In addition to the possible side effects of the expander, be sure you understand the alternate treatment. Your choice may come down to what you feel is the lesser of two evils, but I do count it as a privilege to be able to offer my child treatment. Many families can't or won't, so that in itself is a blessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Kleine Hexe-which ds-the 8 or the 5? Just wondering because it is recommended for my ds (almost 7) and I've been putting it off (will be so tough on our finances!), but now the posts about "missing the window" make me think we'd better visit the ortho! My 8 yr old. His regular dentist (who works with an ortho in the office) says we will eventually have ortho work. I'm assuming it's coming up soon. My 5 yr old has not lost any baby teeth yet. I so wish I did. I have had braces twice and have had 4 teeth removed. Now at 43, I have a problem with gum loss, because my teeth are too close to the edge of my bones - also quite a bit of sensitivity. And guess what? Because they didn't really fix the problem (narrow palate), despite having straight teeth when each set of braces came off - they keep reverting to crooked! My bottom teeth in front do not look like I've had braces. My top teeth are starting to look that way also. My arch is still ok, so I am not having bite issues, but darn - two sets of braces and I still have crooked teeth!! I can't get braces again (thanks to the words of an honest ortho.), because my teeth are so close to the edge of my bones, they may get loose and fall out! My youngest has my mouth. He had palate expanders on both top and bottom. Best thing I could have done for him - I shopped for orthos who wouldn't pull teeth. Both my kids go to this wonderful ortho who says pulling teeth affects your appearance negatively, much later (think now for me, I'm guessing). Just thought I'd pass this on. I also had 4 teeth removed. My teeth are fine, and I have no problems. I had my braces removed when I was 14 and stopped wearing a retainer a few years after that. I had very minor shifting. My teeth are all still nicely straight. I don't miss my extracted teeth at all, and I think my appearance is lovely. :tongue_smilie: I'll be asking a lot of questions for sure. I need to be convinced. Thanks for sharing experiences both good and bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2jjka Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I'll be the voice of the opposition...:001_unsure: We are choosing NOT to go this route for my daughter. When I read what the device actually does (forces apart/separates the bones of the skull!) it really freaked me out. I have also talked with our niece (who had one) and said it was excruciating for the first few weeks when her mom would turn the key (when the bones were being broken apart.) She also developed a lisp, and...her nose widened! Now, my DD doesn't have extreme orthodontic problems like an underbite or a crossbite. Her orthodontist said he would like to use the expander because, "her measurements were a little bit off." After researching it further, (and getting a second opinion,) DH and I just said, "No." Her ortho thinks he can still achieve the desired results with headgear and springs (?). So we're going to go with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 When I read what the device actually does (forces apart/separates the bones of the skull!) it really freaked me out. This is what freaks me out too. They are actually reshaping the entire head. I'm just wondering why that would be better than just pulling teeth in my son's case. He simply has an issue of overcrowding as I did. What's a crossbite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingersmom Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 There have been other discussions about palate expanders. I think there was one on the high school boards. Apparently it can cause speech impediments. You might want to look into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I found this article on the Weston A Price Foundation website, as mentioned by a pp. I just skimmed it, but it's very interesting--about how narrow palates and other facial features affect breathing, leading to mouth breathing, bags under the eyes, attention span difficulties, etc... Something I just saw there in the article mentioned that mouth breathers tend to have chapped lips and a weak chin. I've never thought of myself as a mouth breather, but I do have a large overbite, a weak chin and chapped lips. Maybe I do mouth breathe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2jjka Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 This is what freaks me out too. They are actually reshaping the entire head. I'm just wondering why that would be better than just pulling teeth in my son's case. He simply has an issue of overcrowding as I did. What's a crossbite? A cross bite is where one of the jaws is shifted to the side of the other. (There's a sample photo on this page) http://www.invisalign.com/WillWork/Pages/WillFit.aspx?&txtReferringSite=45&txtCampaign=09SEARCH&utm_source=Google_Paid&utm_campaign=invadultsearch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 My previous orthodontist did not recommend it. He fears that it could distort the the look of the face at a time when the bones are still soft and shifting. He said we should wait until Calvin was older and have braces. He now has them and it's going well - he only had one tooth removed. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2att Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 This is what freaks me out too. They are actually reshaping the entire head. I'm just wondering why that would be better than just pulling teeth in my son's case. He simply has an issue of overcrowding as I did. What's a crossbite? Normally, the top teeth slightly overlap the bottom. With an overbite the top greatly overlaps the bottom, with an underbite the bottom overlaps the top, and with a crossbite one side might line up properly while the other does not. My oldest two had crossbites. It can be due to heredity, or it can be caused by thumb/pacifier use. For my dd the crossbite was even causing tooth grinding due to her uneven bite. Both kids have had a palate expander which fixed the crossbite and made room for permanent teeth. The discomfort, according to them, was minimal. I have a very small mouth and had to have 8 permanent teeth pulled. I wish they had been doing palate expanders back in the day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraGB Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I think it is important to consider the severity of the situation. If I thought ds could have gotten away with a tooth extraction or two and some braces later on, I would have gone that route for sure. This is probably what will happen for dd. But in his case, he needed a bigger mouth for numerous health affecting reasons. I would definitely get other opinions from other orthos before making a decision - you might be surprised what others suggest. It would stink to put a kid through that or spend $1000s if it wasn't necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in AL Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Let the severity of the situation be your guide. My son had a palatal expander in grade 4 when he was 8 1/2 years old. He needed it because of a pretty bad crossbite. The dentist and ortho both said that not fixing it could lead to jaw pain issues later in life, as his bite was pretty 'off'. He went through the installation process just fine, and the daily key turning was 'a bit of pressure'. He did need soft foods for the first few days (just like kids with braces), but after that, he had no problems. It did hinder his speech for a week or so as he learned to 'talk around it'. By the end of the first month, he just sounded like any other child who wears a retainer. Once the key turning was completed, he kept the expander in place for another several months to allow the palate bone to fill in with new growth. He had a pretty big space between his front teeth (3 to 4 mm), but the teeth naturally drifted back together over a month or so. I think the size of the space/number of key turns depends on the ortho/treatment, so you may be looking at a smaller space. My son is now 14 1/2 and has a beautiful smile. He *could* get braces if he wanted to, to correct some minor spots, but honestly, there is no need... his teeth are quite straight. He never needed a retainer. His face shape did not change--- at least not obviously. He has changed as he has grown, so I can't say for sure. Looking at photos of that time period, though, there isn't a difference. The websites that were available when my ds had this device made it seem like some Medieval Torture thing going on. My dd is now in braces, and I tell you, that for the ease, lack of pain, and inexpensive cost (relative to the braces), I wish SHE would have benefitted from the expander. As it is, we're shelling out more than 3X the amount of money for her braces than what we paid for the expander. HTH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 I found this article on the Weston A Price Foundation website, as mentioned by a pp. I just skimmed it, but it's very interesting--about how narrow palates and other facial features affect breathing, leading to mouth breathing, bags under the eyes, attention span difficulties, etc... Something I just saw there in the article mentioned that mouth breathers tend to have chapped lips and a weak chin. I've never thought of myself as a mouth breather, but I do have a large overbite, a weak chin and chapped lips. Maybe I do mouth breathe. I just read the article. Interesting as my 5 yr old has some of the symptoms he talks about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 My orthodontist, sadist though he was, was one of the first in the nation to use palate expansion. My brother, who is 51, had top palate expansion. It saved his teeth. Ds had stage one braces with upper palate expansion. I wish we could have afforded stage two, but our insurance changed. Dd will need braces and expansion, too. I think, if it can be done just with braces, then go that route. If teeth would have to be pulled, I'd do the expansion. There are no "bones breaking," as one poster put it--it's pulling the palate, not breaking the bone. Might feel like that, tho--but ds said it wasn't that bad. He was in 3rd grade when he had it done. My brother was a young teen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holiztic Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 What was the difference? I looked on the website for Wise Traditions and it looks like the last journal was Winter 2007. I guess it takes them a while to get their journals online! I mostly looked at the photos, and they were astounding. The before photos (at age 11, I think) were what you'd expect, pretty much identical and narrow paletes. The after (around age 13) were strikingly different with the twin that had teeth removed still very narrow and the twin that had the widening devise (not sure what it was, it was several years go) having this beautiful wide palate and round face. Even her eyes looked different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2jjka Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Maybe 'break' was too strong of a word...but it forcefully 'un-fuses' the joints in your skull - the ones that fuse after birth, (think of a baby's 'soft spot',) ....and then they fill in with new bone. (Just like what happens when a broken bone heals) Here is a blog entry that talks more about expanders. (Be sure to read the comments... they mention both good and bad about expanders.) http://thethinkingmother.blogspot.com/2007/10/speech-altered-with-palate-expander.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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