Spring Pea Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Just heard on the View that Joy Behar's TV show is going to be featuring some quiver-full moms (tonight I think.) She and the View ladies were discussing this philosophy. She presented it as "these women" had fifteen children or more, allowed their husbands to make all the decisions, homeschooled their children and (get this) their whole purpose was to populate the already over-populated world with voters who shared their evangelical Christian beliefs. Wow. Can you believe that? Voters? As though we think of our children primarily as voters! We're not a QF family--I'm still trying to talk my husband in to a third child--but as I understood it, QF just means allowing God to decide the number of children in your family. Whether that's large or small, through adoption or natural reproduction. I couldn't believe the slanderous way she was presenting this. I know there are a lot of QF families on here, so I thought I'd open up a discussion. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamturner Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Joy Behar has her own show? I never watch The View so I guess I don't know about these things. I can't imagine that she would have a fair and unbiased approach look at such QF families. "Those people" is a tip off! :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfbourne Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 She may have gotten it from an article like this: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102005062 That's also the hope of Nancy Campbell, a leader of the Quiverfull movement and author of Be Fruitful and Multiply. "The womb is such a powerful weapon; it's a weapon against the enemy," Campbell says. Campbell has 35 grandchildren. She and her husband stopped at six kids, and it is her great regret. "I think, help! Imagine if we had had more of these children!" Campbell says, adding, "My greatest impact is through my children. The more children I have, the more ability I have to impact the world for God." A Christian God, that is. Campbell says if believers don't starting reproducing in large numbers, biblical Christianity will lose its voice. "We look across the Islamic world and we see that they are outnumbering us in their family size, and they are in many places and many countries taking over those nations, without a jihad, just by multiplication," Campbell says. Still, Quiverfull is a small group, probably 10,000 fast-growing families, mainly in the Midwest and South. But they have large ambitions, says Kathryn Joyce, who has written about the movement in her book Quiverfull: Inside The Christian Patriarchy Movement. "They speak about, 'If everyone starts having eight children or 12 children, imagine in three generations what we'll be able to do,' " Joyce says. " 'We'll be able to take over both halls of Congress, we'll be able to reclaim sinful cities like San Francisco for the faithful, and we'll be able to wage very effective massive boycotts against companies that are going against God's will.' " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Pea Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 Yes, I couldn't tell you what network or what time, but it's some cable channel, an evening show. I don't normally watch the View either, but the tv was left on this morning when we left the room, and when I went to turn it off, that caught my attention. I guess I'm just irritated that any of them would be offering opinions about something they know nothing about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Pea Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 "My greatest impact is through my children. The more children I have, the more ability I have to impact the world for God." "They speak about, 'If everyone starts having eight children or 12 children, imagine in three generations what we'll be able to do,' " Joyce says. " 'We'll be able to take over both halls of Congress, we'll be able to reclaim sinful cities like San Francisco for the faithful, and we'll be able to wage very effective massive boycotts against companies that are going against God's will.' " I understand the concept of bringing up more believers--more evangelicals to spread the word. It goes a bit far when you beging to think of it as a voter incubation system. Perhaps that is the motive? I guess I'd understood it differently. The "quiver-full" name comes from Scripture, and not in the context of political movements. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfbourne Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I understand the concept of bringing up more believers--more evangelicals to spread the word. It goes a bit far when you beging to think of it as a voter incubation system. Perhaps that is the motive? I guess I'd understood it differently. The "quiver-full" name comes from Scripture, and not in the context of political movements. :) I think it depends on who's practicing it. There may be a section of the quiverfull movement who's goal is to 'take back America as God's Country' and they are the one's writing books and being interviewed. Most that I've 'talked' to online aren't thinking about that. They do simply want to let God be in control of all aspects of their life, including their fertility. But, which group makes for a better TV show interview ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I guess I'm just irritated that any of them would be offering opinions about something they know nothing about. It's never stopped them before. :glare: I have opinions on Joy Behar that would probably get me into trouble here, so I'll keep them to myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RecumbentHeart Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Campbell says if believers don't starting reproducing in large numbers, biblical Christianity will lose its voice. I'm not familiar with Nancy Campbell but she apparently has a low view of the sovereignty of God. The power of Christianity is in Christ, not the womb. It seems she may be of the persuasion that the children of believers are saved by default. That would explain her plan to take over the world in the name of God through multiplication .. it makes sense. If it's true, we should all be doing it and I suppose God should thank us for it. *sigh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The other Kimberly Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I'm not familiar with Nancy Campbell but she apparently has a low view of the sovereignty of God. The power of Christianity is in Christ, not the womb. Wow! Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricket Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I'm not familiar with Nancy Campbell but she apparently has a low view of the sovereignty of God. The power of Christianity is in Christ, not the womb. It seems she may be of the persuasion that the children of believers are saved by default. That would explain her plan to take over the world in the name of God through multiplication .. it makes sense. If it's true, we should all be doing it and I suppose God should thank us for it. *sigh* Nancy Campbell is the publisher of Above Rubies magazine. I think she has written some books as well. I wouldn't say she has a low view of God's sovereignty. Maybe just that she believes it is God's plan for Christian families to have many children. She may be a postmillennialist and believes that God is using Christian families as a way to usher in the millennium. I'm not familiar enough with covenant theology teachings on children in Christian families to comment on that. I'm sure someone else is though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricket Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 The show is on tonight at 9 Est on Headline News channel. I don't know if I could watch without wanting to throw things at the tv though. I don't care for Behar's opinions and she is usually quite nasty in expressing her opinions from what I've seen of her. Wonder if anyone brings up Andrea Yates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnieB Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I guess I'm just irritated that any of them would be offering opinions about something they know nothing about. Having only watched bits and pieces of The View as I channel surf something else...plus our twice weekly doctor appts are now apparently at the same time as this show as it's always on, sigh...... but....isn't that pretty much what this show is all about.....these woman who all talk over each other (loudly) giving their opinions on things they know little or nothing about? Sorry, but either they, or I, are way way off on thinking about almost every topic. I find myself wanting to shout at the TV, lol. I've asked the nurses if we could put on something more appropriate for the children in the room, but they'll change it and then "someone else" changes it (when I complain that I thought we weren't going to watch this crapola, they claim "someone" .....reminds me of the Family Circle cartoons, lol). I keep meaning to talk to the doctor, but by the time we go in I have so much else on my mind I forget. I think I'll write it down on my "ask doctor about" list (yes, I have a list because otherwise I'll never remember to ask things! I am the worst advocate for my daughter as I'm so overwhelmed by it all....but I'm all she's got.) My DH calls them the cat women....claws out over everything and everyone. I find this show to be everything bad about gossip. As for the populating the world with Christians....I'm not seeing that as a bad thing. I don't always agree with most Christians, especially the ones on the far end.......but frankly I see the world as going to heck in a handbasket lately and if bringing it closer to the Christian way of thinking that USA had the first 200 years is their goal, then I'm all for it.....if they lean to far over that line though, I'll probably request more grandkids to push back a little. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bess Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Nancy Campbell is the publisher of Above Rubies magazine. I think she has written some books as well. I wouldn't say she has a low view of God's sovereignty. Maybe just that she believes it is God's plan for Christian families to have many children. She may be a postmillennialist and believes that God is using Christian families as a way to usher in the millennium. I'm not familiar enough with covenant theology teachings on children in Christian families to comment on that. I'm sure someone else is though! I'm not sure about Nancy Campbell's view of covenant theology, but it sure seems like this is the motivation of groups like "Vision Forum". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Sorry, but either they, or I, are way way off on thinking about almost every topic. Rest assured...you're not the one who is off!!! :001_smile: I really don't watch the show because I don't care about their views on, well, anything. It's mostly ratings-grabbing nonsense. I don't agree with Behar. Her views on most things are opposites of mine and I find her just very off in her thinking. As for the quiverfull thinking, I have never known anyone with that mindset who did so to raise little voters. I am about to have my 5th blessing, and I've always just seen them as blessings from the Lord that could go on and raise more children for Him and His purposes...not raising them for one political party or the other!?!? Men run those parties. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I guess this is a slight hijack, but here goes. I wish they would call this something other than the Quiver Full movement. DH and I firmly believe that the Lord has shown us that our quiver is quite full with our 4 beloved children. I don't think one's quiver must be the large economy size packed to overflowing to be considered full. No ill will to those of you with many, many children, I imagine your homes are filled with much fun and love. It's not the principal that bothers me, just the name given it. Back to your regular programming.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RecumbentHeart Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I guess this is a slight hijack, but here goes. I wish they would call this something other than the Quiver Full movement. DH and I firmly believe that the Lord has shown us that our quiver is quite full with our 4 beloved children. I don't think one's quiver must be the large economy size packed to overflowing to be considered full. No ill will to those of you with many, many children, I imagine your homes are filled with much fun and love. It's not the principal that bothers me, just the name given it. Back to your regular programming.... take into account also that being of this mind does not equal 'lots of children'. That's really not the point of the conviction ... except, I guess, for those raising voters :D My point though is that sometimes leaving fertility entirely to the Lord's providence means accepting a small number of children or even none at all so I guess I would prefer a different term also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffeefreak Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I guess I'm just irritated that any of them would be offering opinions about something they know nothing about. :lol: That's what The View is about! It's all they ever do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzie in Ma Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 If my life depended on it I would not give credence to a single thing the View has to say. Oh I could go on, but I haven't the time to pour out my "view" on those women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Did anyone watch it? I didn't. Curious to know how it went. Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 this is assuming all those grown dc remain Christian too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katemary63 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) I'm not familiar with Nancy Campbell but she apparently has a low view of the sovereignty of God. The power of Christianity is in Christ, not the womb. This statement couldn't be more true. Anyone who thinks the womb is our "weapon", just doesn't get it AT ALL!! And certainly doesn't trust in the sovereignty of God, the power of the risen Christ and the transforming work of the Holy Spirit. Many of my devout Christian friends aren't even from Christian families. God doesn't need us to multiply in order for Him to "win." Forgoodness sakes. edit: This is in response to actual quotes of hers found on the link provided in a previous post. She stated that Islamic peoples are "taking over" other coutries through "multiplication" and indicated that Christians should do the same. That's rediculous IMHO. Edited November 4, 2009 by katemary63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariannNOVA Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 It was orderly, and I thought that the individuals who were 'guests' were more or less given ample opportunity to articulate their position (what with commercial breaks and all). Joy Behar (in my opinion) conducted herself in a much better fashion than I would have anticipated - I observed that when she is not surrounded by her cohorts on The View, she actually gives the impression that she is listening, and her questions were, hmmmmmm, not as self-serving as I would have thought. WHY did I watch? We are still living in a hotel, I was channel surfing, there wasn't any World Series Game last night, DH is on travel and in another hotel :glare:. Just my .02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greensummervillian Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I watched it. Joy Behar made it clear that all the work of all those kids would drive her crazy. I think that is probably a pretty popular view in America. I don't think she was over the top about it. She had a panel of three women to discuss this movement. There was no shouting over each other like there is often is on the view. The first was a woman who leaves her fertility to God and is happy about her life. She says she works 20 hours a week, and has homeschooled off and on. She says she and her husband make decisions jointly. The second woman researched and wrote a book about the quiverful movement. She was there to expose the darker side, like the fact that in many quiverful families the girls are not encouraged to get any higher education. The third woman divorced her husband after having seven children with him. I'd like to hear her whole story, but from what I gather her husband was abusive, and her religious beliefs told her that leaving was not an option. She finally woke up when her daughter tried to commit suicide. I think overall they were trying to say that the patriarchal views commonly held in the quiverful movement leave too much room for the abuse of power. The woman who is on the pro side says it doesn't have to be that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlifemom Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I gave up watching when she was interviewing Jodie Sweetin. She was asking her questions and then answered them herself. The beginning segment gave me a headache. Never got to the quiverful(l?) segment.:glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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