Public schools and religion

[Jugglin'5]

There is ethnic Judaism and practicing Judaism, and while the two may occur in the same person, the latter doesn't presume the former. Nor does the former presume the latter.

 

 

a

 

Thanks, I know the difference. She was ethnically Jewish, but her dh was not, hence the non-Jewish married name. I don't really think she was much of a synagogue goer.

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

Not saying I don't believe you, I do. But, I've never heard of such a situation -- a public school district partnering with a religious university... What kind of bizarre bedfellow arrangement is that?

 

However, I live in a big, liberal, politically-correctly-oriented city, so maybe I'm just out of the loop.

 

If anyone is still reading this thread: are there schools like this (public school district partnering with a religious university) in your area?

 

Some charter schools in our state must have a university to sponsor them. That university could be a State U or (for instance) Notre Dame (Catholic) or another Name Univeristy which is Lutheran.

 

As someone who has attended both a Catholic University and a State U, I didn't notice any difference except for the one social justice class all freshmen at the Catholic U had to take that was taught by a priest but not overly religious (well, that and price).

[Kate in Arabia]

 

There is ethnic Judaism and practicing Judaism, and while the two may occur in the same person, the latter doesn't presume the former. Nor does the former presume the latter.

In a similar vein, I've often had people who have been startled because when they see my name it's "Western" but when they meet me I'm clearly Muslim. In some cases I have given advanced warning to try and avoid that. I had a professional Muslim friend who was considering actually changing her name to an Arabic one because clients were so often surprised, and not always in a good way.

[Tea Time]

I don't do it. I don't send my child to a Catholic school. I send my kid to a public high school in my city's school district. As such, I have an expectation that religion not be promoted.

 

Tara

 

But that is the problem; I think your expectation is not accurate, so no wonder you feel so frustrated. The original intent was that a particular religious view would never be promoted above another one. There was never a promise that religion would not be promoted in the general sense (freedom of religion is at least as significant an idea in our Constitution as the separation clause, if not more so); and I am quite sure our founders, as well as the vast majority of the population even now, never intended that religion would become the object of outright scorn or become outright forbidden, either by law or by social pressure, in every manner and every expression within schools, universities, and businesses.

 

Probably ticking you off by now. Really sorry about that. I hope you find something that meets the needs of your highschooler. We have had struggles, too, due to such limited options in our area. It has been agonizing at times, so I really do hope you get through it. Now I will leave you alone. I promise. If I have the urge to add more, I will allow myself a whole cup of coffee instead, which should keep me from the temptation! ;)

[chiguirre]

But by inviting a Baptist minister who started with a prayer and included Bible quotations in his materials, they are promoting a particular denomination of a particular religion. You can't really get around that. Not only is that situation uncomfortable for a non-Christian like Tara, it would be uncomfortable for a many Catholics who expect that a Catholic university would not invite a religious speaker who is not faithful to the Magisterium. That's why the separation of church and state is so important, it avoids all of the ill will that's fomented by differences in doctrine.

 

If the meetings weren't obligatory, making people uncomfortable wouldn't matter so much. Those who didn't want to listen to the Baptist pov on parenting wouldn't go, those who did would. Of course, I think attendance would quickly plummet unless the seminars had broad appeal, which would bring us back to not making people uncomfortable by presenting a particular denomination's pov on parenting.

[stripe]

In a similar vein, I've often had people who have been startled because when they see my name it's "Western" but when they meet me I'm clearly Muslim.

Which is a sad confusion that Muslims are not all Arab, nor do all have Arabic names. (Even ladies named Fatumatu get a hard time, as you know, Kate, as it "should" be Fatima!) The world is just to varied to have everything "fit" neatly all the time -- there are plenty of international/interracial adoptions and marriages on this board alone to make that clear!

 

Strangely enough, people are fine about Asian Christians. I guess it's whatever sort of diversity is normal for someone....

 

I was once in a class with a lady who wasted a lot of class time arguing about a philosopher's last name and how it was some iron clad proof of his ethnicity (and, actually, she insisted all Hilarys are woman, too), never really getting that she herself didn't fit her own mold, as she had a Japanese last name via marriage.

[AuntPol]

I can never figure out why my POV doesn't get more support in this environment (classical education board). The OP is indignant because they are paying for a PS to do things that make them angry and frustrated. Understandable! But MANY people are feeling this way about PS at this point. It seems to be that we want to eat our cake and have it too. You cannot please everyone, so why not crack the whole thing wide open and allow far MORE choices so that, as you said in your other post, everyone can be happy? How about a PS option, and a lot of other options, too? How about individuals being able to support the school of their choice, yes, even Wiccan or Islamic schools or the Spaghetti Monster school (my kids would have wanted that one). Would take people who are truly not afraid of diversity and who are truly tolerant though, I guess. And while we have many people making the claim, they must not really mean it.

 

Stop being so afraid. Let your own beliefs get rocked and assaulted. If they can't withstand, then they might not be part of evolutions great plan. LOL!

 

Another point that should be made here is that the Catholic University puts itself at risk, too. It is highly likely, with this alliance, that it will lose its identity as so many have. Strings are always attached to things. Who will win the tug-o-war of thought? Personally, I don't want to "win," I just want a little space to live out my beliefs. I think that most people feel this way, but some people DO want to win. Every camp has them, people who want to suppress other people's ideas, and IMO, they are the enemy. But we must all wise up to this.

 

:iagree: -I fully support choice in school, be it Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Pagan, Atheistic, Government is God, Classical, Charlotte Mason, Unschooling, Waldorf, Montessori, Constructivist, etc. Some of these things I believe are wrong and do not support personally and would NEVER have my children attend but I support the right of the parents to choose what is best educational style/religious belief for their families.

[creekland]

 

If the meetings weren't obligatory, making people uncomfortable wouldn't matter so much. Those who didn't want to listen to the Baptist pov on parenting wouldn't go, those who did would. Of course, I think attendance would quickly plummet unless the seminars had broad appeal, which would bring us back to not making people uncomfortable by presenting a particular denomination's pov on parenting.

 

This is why I don't think it was such a big deal... this speaker had been there for 3 years now? Obviously someone liked what he had to say. Therefore, it's not a good idea to kick him out to appease a minority (but I would question the prayer).

 

In general, I'd be all for making the meeting agendas known ahead of time and saying people only have to make a certain number of them - not all. But then again, I'm probably nowhere near this place... it would just be my way of handling it knowing as little of what the speaker actually said and the situation as I'm getting here.

[kalanamak]

While reading this thread this morning I was wondering if this is what people feel like when they got V mail that had sections that were censored/blacked out during WW II? :lol:

 

:lol::lol: What novel was it? Heller? Nabokov? who had a censor who blacked out random lines just for his entertainment.

 

As for the OP, I wouldn't have been surprised. I would have left and decided it wasn't for my family. I would have dropped the school board a note. I wouldn't call a lawyer.

 

The first book I read on hs was Debra Bell's Ultimate Guide To. She, early on, has a short list of things that "every successful homeschooling family has to have or they will fail". She means the sine qua non. Number one was "having been called by God to homeschool". Think of it: a person who has never even talked to a homeschooler being told at first scratch they will fail.

 

Consider the source, as me mum used to say.

[Reya]

Atheism is a belief? :blink: Heh, who knew.

 

Of course it is. How have you redefined "belief" so that it is not? Belief is something that only other people have? *shakes head*

[Reya]

Tolerance is not foisting your religious views on a captive audience at taxpayers' expense.

 

 

Then every public school history textbook I've seen fails in that with at least two religions, if not more.

[Corraleno]

This is why I don't think it was such a big deal... this speaker had been there for 3 years now? Obviously someone liked what he had to say. Therefore, it's not a good idea to kick him out to appease a minority (but I would question the prayer).

 

I don't understand why you keep implying that the only problem here is that Tara "didn't like him" or "disagreed with his point of view"? Promoting the prayer, scripture and doctrine of a particular religion at a mandatory public school function is illegal, not just annoying. I bet if the meeting had been led by a Pagan, with Pagan text and Pagan prayer or ritual, there would have been a huge outcry and probably a mass exodus. Characterizing an illegal act as "no big deal" and suggesting that Tara is simply being intolerant or close-minded to expect a public school to operate within the law, seems pretty close-minded to me.

 

Jackie

[Corraleno]

Then every public school history textbook I've seen fails in that with at least two religions, if not more.

 

Do people honestly not see the difference between teaching children about the history of various world religions versus leading them in prayer and promoting the doctrine of a specific religion? Really? :confused:

 

Jackie

[stripe]

I bet if the meeting had been led by a Pagan, with Pagan text and Pagan prayer or ritual, there would have been a huge outcry and probably a mass exodus.

I strongly agree with you.

 

There has been much outrage among certain groups any time a Muslim representative comes to a public school or any activities are done that present Islam in a non-negative light, in an attempt to understand current world events. Heck, even when Somali refuges requested hospital gowns that didn't expose their backsides, some people were outraged -- as if it's the first step towards an Islamic state instead of a way to stop stripping patients of all religions and weights of their dignity.

 

People tend to gloss over references to Jesus or the "Heavenly Father" or Bible-based discipline in a way that they would NOT if it were Hinduism, Islam, or various other religions that seem "foreign" to some Americans.

 

The question Tara asked (as I understood it) was -- it it correct that a public school is requiring parents to attend Christian parenting seminars, and if not, how does one deal with the situation? I don't believe she ever claimed that Christians are evil and should never be allowed to speak and practice their beliefs.

[creekland]

I don't understand why you keep implying that the only problem here is that Tara "didn't like him" or "disagreed with his point of view"? Promoting the prayer, scripture and doctrine of a particular religion at a mandatory public school function is illegal, not just annoying. I bet if the meeting had been led by a Pagan, with Pagan text and Pagan prayer or ritual, there would have been a huge outcry and probably a mass exodus. Characterizing an illegal act as "no big deal" and suggesting that Tara is simply being intolerant or close-minded to expect a public school to operate within the law, seems pretty close-minded to me.

 

Jackie

 

Maybe there would have been there, who knows? I know my view wouldn't change if you put _____ religion in there. The prayer was probably wrong - the rest may or may not have been depending on what was actually said.

 

Quote from Confucius are used often in our mandatory meetings - and quotes from other beliefs as well. No quotes are ever used telling one HOW to become a member of any particular belief. They are supposed to be inspirational to all. I suppose some people could be offended... but that doesn't mean I support eliminating them to appease those folks.