Holly IN Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 I am glad Mrs. Riding Hood validated the use of Apologia in regards to her ds's comments. I do not like Apologia but I do use them. However I am wondering how you guys are using Apologia? My ds can't do them without my help. I am puzzled. He is a bit lazy though which is typical for a 14 yr old boy. His birthday is coming up soon so he will be 15. Everybody I talked to said this is normal for a 14 yr old. Can you tell the rest of us whose kid's are struggling with Apologia, what we can do to help them be more independent? Anything I can do to help my son? He really abhors Apologia!! However he says he is learning alot. Ok???? What does that mean?? Thanks! Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Marple Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 He really abhors Apologia!! However he says he is learning alot. Ok???? What does that mean?? Perhaps that it is an uninspiring curriculum? That's my impression of it. I do believe the content (with some exceptions) is sufficient, but the presentation is, IMO, boring and mind-numbing. I love science and believe the same content can be delivered in a fun, interesting manner. Some kids do fine with the program just like some kids do great with Saxon math (which I also find mind-numbing), and I'll just bet there are some kids who get excited over their Apologia texts :-). I do have issues with the lack of presentation of application as well as data interpretation I have found throughout the basic levels. I also don't like being locked into 2 years for each course in order to have a complete (or beyond complete) program. But that's just my opinion :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choirfarm Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 My oldest is 9th grade and is doing Chemistry and has done all of the courses before that. My 7th grader is doing General Science. They read the chapter and highlight important information...yes, write in the book! They keep a reading journal where they write down those important concepts/vocabulary. ( We got this idea from How to be a Superstar sTudent) Then they look it over and study. They try to do the study guide without looking back at the answers. They circle the number if they need to look it up so they know they need to study that concept/vocabulary more. All of this is done without any help from me. They bring their notebook to me and I give it a cursory glance to make sure they have done it. I then sit on the couch with them and they give me the answer and I tell them if it is the same or different from the answer key. Then they study and take the test. Now my Chemistry student also has practice problems which take another day. He had to do the extra problems for chapter 2, but that was the only one. I hope that helps. Christine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tullia Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 And, if you son is like mine was at 14, he's teetering between being a boy and a young man. That's a situation which affects just about every part of life. The year my son was 14 was our MOST difficult year. What I did to help us make better use of Apologia was buy the audio version for me. I listened to the readings and used them to make up study guides for exams. FWIW, my son did an "inspectional reading" (as taught in How To Read a Book), an outline, the readings and OYO questions without my input unless he didn't understand the text. We discussed review questions, practice problems, my home-made study guides, and corrected missed items on the exams. My son always needed some interaction with me in order to keep his focus and get work done in a timely manner, and that was true for the courses he loved as well as those he didn't enjoy. He did his best work when he had at least one outside class. We also used a lot of Teaching Company videos in high school for the courses we did on our own. If you don't like the curriculum or if it's not working for your child then it's ok to change! There are some young people who have the motivation and self-discipline to work through curriculum on their own, but I think they're a minority. It's hard to mentor someone through a course if YOU don't like the materials. In general, I found that it was a good thing to fit the curriculum primarily to my child's needs during the early years, but that it became really important to use materials that I felt comfortable with for high school. HTH, Martha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan C. Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Both of my kids love Apologia. It has been a life saver in teaching secondary science for us. I do have a friend I recommended it to.....they didn't like it at all. The two sciences they ended up liking are A Beka and PACES. I think maybe some kids don't like the conversational style of Apologia. They just want the facts in a regular textbook because they can fill in the gaps. My kids are not good at filling in the gaps, and thrive on conversational style books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Elliot Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 (edited) We've used only Apologia for high school and my three graduated dc have done/are doing very well in university level science courses. FWIW, a few of my dc were not initially fond of Dr. Wile's writing style, but grew to like it. And the other day, 17yods said his physics textbook is his favorite textbook ever. If your son is struggling to retain the information or do well on the exams (I couldn't tell from your post if that is the kind of struggling you're talking about) he probably needs some help with study skills or reading skills. You could try the CD that has the author reading the book on it. Show him how to use index cards for definitions, show him how to look for and hi-lite the important points in the chapter, etc. Edited October 19, 2009 by Luann in ID Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeidiD Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 In general, I found that it was a good thing to fit the curriculum primarily to my child's needs during the early years, but that it became really important to use materials that I felt comfortable with for high school. We do the same, particularly in areas where they'll need my input. We've used and liked many of the Apologia books, from the Fulbright books up through marine biology. I didn't like the chemstry text, however, so switched to Prentice Hall for that, and opted for the "mind-numbing" Saxon physics, since I generally find Saxon's math program fairly easy to use. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingersmom Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Perhaps that it is an uninspiring curriculum? That's my impression of it. I do believe the content (with some exceptions) is sufficient, but the presentation is, IMO, boring and mind-numbing. I love science and believe the same content can be delivered in a fun, interesting manner. Some kids do fine with the program just like some kids do great with Saxon math (which I also find mind-numbing), and I'll just bet there are some kids who get excited over their Apologia texts :-). My son is doing elementary Apologia and my daughter is doing General Science. She was just telling me in the car today how much she loves it and can't wait to get to the next books and do it through high school. We love love Saxon math!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 ds15 has just finished apologia biology ( yesterday). he is already doing apologia physics, and will start apologia chemistry next week. I read the whole biology text book out loud. I found the book extremely wordy, and some of his comments are ridiculously funny. my son thinks alot of the paragraphs should be placed into a grammar book for lessons of cross out the sentences that don't fit in with this paragraph. that being said. it does cover the information and is alot better than the other recommendation in WTM of the self teach guides that have the answers written right below the questions. I really love WTM and follow it's recommendations closely. I just wish it had other options for high school science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffeegal Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 My son is doing elementary Apologia and my daughter is doing General Science. She was just telling me in the car today how much she loves it and can't wait to get to the next books and do it through high school. We love love Saxon math!!! :iagree: We LOVE Saxon math!!! All my children do wonderfully with it, and my oldest likes Apologia General Science. It's a keeper here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaT Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 My son is doing elementary Apologia and my daughter is doing General Science. She was just telling me in the car today how much she loves it and can't wait to get to the next books and do it through high school. We love love Saxon math!!! We love Apologia Science and Saxon Math as well. I have two who have gone on to take college science courses and felt very prepared thanks to Apologia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Marple Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 She was just telling me in the car today how much she loves it and can't wait to get to the next books and do it through high school. I *KNEW* there were kids who got excited over Apologia! This is why having a choice in curriculum is so important. Glad you are all doing well with both :-) Are we seeing a pattern here? Folks who like Saxon also like Apologia? Anyone like one but not the other? Could liking one be a determinant as to whether a person will like the other - interesting notion...hmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maryalice Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I teach Apologia Chemistry and Physics at enrichment classes. I see all types of kids - kids strong in math and science who catch on quickly in those areas and kids who are more "language" oriented, whose eyes glaze over at the sound of numbers. The one consistent thing I saw with those that have had success with Apologia is diligence. I have very smart kids who say, "Oh, I already know this" and they skip the examples, then skip the on your own, then breeze through the practice and don't bother with the extra practice. And...then they don't do well on the test. I have kids who can barely remember their math facts, much less algebra, who do the examples, do the OYO, do the practice, do the extra practice...and they get 90%+ on the tests. The kids all do different math programs (Saxon, TT, VT, Dive, Lial, to name some I remember). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon in MD Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I *KNEW* there were kids who got excited over Apologia! This is why having a choice in curriculum is so important. Glad you are all doing well with both :-) Are we seeing a pattern here? Folks who like Saxon also like Apologia? Anyone like one but not the other? Could liking one be a determinant as to whether a person will like the other - interesting notion...hmmm... ...I like Apologia Science because it is a complete curriculum where the book substitutes for the lecture. It may not be exciting, but we always did the labs with friends and enjoyed the course. It is entirely doable from the kitchen and utility sink. For math I found Saxon's style not to my/our liking. We went with Jacobs/Foerster and finally Chalkdust for Calculus. If I had a better math background I would have stayed the course with Foerster all the way through Calculus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy in Richmond Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I'm happy that your son is off to a great start, Lynne! Were you at Family Weekend these past few days by any chance? ~Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan C. Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 We like Apologia, but not Saxon. We wouldn't mind Saxon if they would go in order and not be so random, we did like the explanations, just couldn't stand how scattered it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyomarie Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 (edited) Are we seeing a pattern here? Folks who like Saxon also like Apologia? Anyone like one but not the other? Could liking one be a determinant as to whether a person will like the other - interesting notion...hmmm... Liking both Saxon & Apologia? Eh, not necessarily. I really dislike Saxon's style & while Apologia's style is not my absolute favorite, I do like it well enough for high school that we use it. Possibly the connection in liking both is that they are both relatively easy to use for self-teaching? If mom cannnot teach- as in lecture or lecture/discussion- and the student needs to be on his own except for getting help with questions, then these programs are amongst the easiest out there for accomplishing the goal with the least amount of struggle. Edited October 24, 2009 by Tokyomarie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaLisa Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Holly, I've found that my boys at that beginning high school age really benefit from some outside work. I've put several lab classes for the Apologia sciences. The students read the text at home and complete the exercises and come together to do the lab work. A teaching parent (or hired tutor) usually reviews the chapter and then leads the lab. We've added in outside projects, films, field trips and guest speakers. For my boys, especially, the stimulation that comes from meeting together weekly or bi-monthly was great motivation to get the reading done! Just a thought, Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Marple Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I've found that my boys at that beginning high school age really benefit from some outside work :iagree: I think the sciences lend themselves well to group activities. My boys are much more interested in doing labs or even problem sets when they can do it in a group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Donna Young has Apologia schedules that we've found helpful for keeping us on track. http://donnayoung.org/apologia/index.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thea Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I *KNEW* there were kids who got excited over Apologia! This is why having a choice in curriculum is so important. Glad you are all doing well with both :-) Are we seeing a pattern here? Folks who like Saxon also like Apologia? Anyone like one but not the other? Could liking one be a determinant as to whether a person will like the other - interesting notion...hmmm... You might be on to something. Strong dislike for Saxon and Apologia here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle in MO Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I don't think there's any trend; I hated Saxon, and so did my kids, but they worked well with Apologia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I have a question: Are any of the kids who did Apologia in high school majoring in sciences in college? I'm curious because the science courses for for science majors are different than those for general liberal studies requirements (eg: Biology, or Biology for Biology and Pre-Med Majors etc.) a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle in MO Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 (edited) I have a question: Are any of the kids who did Apologia in high school majoring in sciences in college? I'm curious because the science courses for for science majors are different than those for general liberal studies requirements (eg: Biology, or Biology for Biology and Pre-Med Majors etc.) a Yes; I believe that her son is majoring in science, and I think that's one of the reasons for this thread. Her son is going to MIT, and this is his report about what worked for high school. This is her original post, in which he got accepted into MIT. For a variety of reasons, not everyone wants to use Apologia, nor does it work for every child. But yes, there are some who have used Apologia who are actually majoring in science. We used it because it was very user-friendly; the explanations were very understandable for my girls. My oldest is most likely not going to major in any science-related field; however, last year, her first year at a private Catholic high school, she did Advanced Biology with the Campbell's text (for some reason I can never remember what the exact name of the text is, but it's the more difficult one frequently recommended for AP Bio., not the easier one) with the rest of her class. She was at the top of her class all year and received an award for that at the end of the school year. I think it helped that she had done both Biology and Chemistry at home, and we did use Apologia. I think it would have been more difficult if she had done only Biology before Advanced Biology, because there was a fair amount of chemistry which was expected to be understood in the Campbell's text. But, Apologia is not for everyone. You have to find a text which best suits your child and your worldview. Edited October 24, 2009 by Michelle in MO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Marple Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Yes. My oldest used Apologia for biology and chemistry. He is in the honors program at OU majoring in petroleum engineering. I taught the chemistry course. It did the job but it was IMO uninspiring. He didn't know the difference because it was the only choice he had. I on the other hand was a science major and had a much wider exposure to science materials than he did - hence my opinion. But if Apologia is the text that ends up getting done at home then it's a good choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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