if you thought

[Pamela H in Texas]

kiddo just couldn't really progress any further....

 

well, what would you do?

 

I feel we've been treading water and wasting time. Some of it has been good in other ways, but now I feel like it's just a big waste of time.

 

DS is SO much further (about DOUBLE!) than he was ever expected to be and has hit a huge wall. Maybe he just isn't going to progress further.

 

I can't see stopping altogether, but I can't see just doing stuff in order to do it either. He's getting SO little from it. The major accomplishment is that schoolwork is keeping him from rotting his brain on the computer....really.

 

I figure we'll keep plugging along in some things and back up and try other things a different way, but I just am having a hard time with the idea of wasting hours per day for the next 4 years on academics he'll actually get and retain very little of. I tried to get certain types of curriculum. I tried to get job based courses. I focused on interests. But in the end, he's simply going through the motions.

 

And this isn't a behavioral issue. He is doing what he can. He isn't excited about all of it but he doesn't have a bad attitude by any stretch either. He WANTS to be as capable as possible. And I'm scared to death of giving him the message that he's dumb (like he thinks he is).

 

But some people are not academically inclined. And some people have significant developmental issues that make it less likely they will be academically capable, much less superior.

 

So what options do we have? There really has to be something better than just treading water, spending school hours just because, etc....

[lionfamily1999]

:grouphug:

 

Keep looking, I'll pray for you (if that's alright).

 

:grouphug:

 

All I can think of is to find things that would move him very slowly ahead and not to give up. I'm not sure why he's not expected to have done as much as he has already, but I wouldn't recommend stopping altogether. Is there a subject he loves (and does well with)? Maybe using that as a core could help?

 

Wish I could be of more help.

[Cera]

Does he know what he wants to do when he moves into the workforce?

 

If you can figure out what he might want to do long term and start focusing on the skills that will help him in those pursuits maybe he will feel better about what he is working on.

[Ottakee]

Have you had any testing done? I know that IQ scores are debatable but I find them somewhat useful.

 

This year we put our 14dd in school---a 7th grade room for cognitively impaired kids. She is LOVING it. Right now she goes 9-noon but likely starting next week she will go 9-1pm. She will get OT, PT, and speech. I honestly don't think she will get much academically but it is great for her for therapy and social stuff.

 

I am not giving up on her reading, writing, etc. (we will do some here at home) but she has an IQ of 35 and is doing mid 2nd grade work right now. Given her IQ scores she should be at about a 4 1/2 year old level. So, she is basically a mentally impaired overachiever.

 

We need to look realistically at what her future holds. She LOVES her horse and does well with him so we will continue in that thread. She loves school so unless there are problems, she will go and have fun. Her future will likely be a supportive living environment and a job doing basic work---she would love to work at a horse farm cleaning stalls, feeding, etc--something she could do and do well.

 

OK, all that to say, I DO understand. Sometimes, despite our best efforts, our kids are not going to be big students and we need to change focus.

 

Could your son do volunteer work, work with an older gentleman as an "apprentice" of sorts, etc? Even a public school program might offer him some good options. My 21 year old son is in a public school job training program where he works at the hospital 2 days a week and does things like helping at a food give away, etc. other days of the week. He loves it and it gives him something positive to do each day.

 

kiddo just couldn't really progress any further....

 

well, what would you do?

 

I feel we've been treading water and wasting time. Some of it has been good in other ways, but now I feel like it's just a big waste of time.

 

DS is SO much further (about DOUBLE!) than he was ever expected to be and has hit a huge wall. Maybe he just isn't going to progress further.

 

I can't see stopping altogether, but I can't see just doing stuff in order to do it either. He's getting SO little from it. The major accomplishment is that schoolwork is keeping him from rotting his brain on the computer....really.

 

I figure we'll keep plugging along in some things and back up and try other things a different way, but I just am having a hard time with the idea of wasting hours per day for the next 4 years on academics he'll actually get and retain very little of. I tried to get certain types of curriculum. I tried to get job based courses. I focused on interests. But in the end, he's simply going through the motions.

 

And this isn't a behavioral issue. He is doing what he can. He isn't excited about all of it but he doesn't have a bad attitude by any stretch either. He WANTS to be as capable as possible. And I'm scared to death of giving him the message that he's dumb (like he thinks he is).

 

But some people are not academically inclined. And some people have significant developmental issues that make it less likely they will be academically capable, much less superior.

 

So what options do we have? There really has to be something better than just treading water, spending school hours just because, etc....

[Dobela]

Most public schools would begin vocational training at this point. Is there a vocational college or school in your area? All of the ones in our area have special training for high school students. Many of the special ed students I taught would attend vocational training for half of the day and do basic academics the other half. The academics would focus on daily living topics like balancing a checkbook, planning menus, making a budget, how to read labels, fill out job applications, and so on. Or start looking at apprenticeships for job training with people you know. That is where I would begin.

[Tree House Academy]

You know, my dh and I were having this conversation about 10 minutes ago! How funny!!! Dh was that way. He said that everything he learned, he learned by the time he was 13. He hated school and hated learning and he went through the motions. He spent most of his high school time in welding and shop class. He tried college at 18 and failed miserably. He spent the next 7 years working with his hands - he was a millwright and worked for a contractor at times during those years. At the age of 24, he decided it was time to make something of himself. It was HIS decision to apply himself and boy did he! He got a BSME and is now a manager for an engineering firm.

 

Some kids just need a different route than others. Keep your head up and do what you think is best for your boy. Life is full of possibilities and not all kids need to be a doctor to be successful!

[Pamela H in Texas]

Please don't think poorly of me.

 

Basically, at one point, I was convinced he would live here forever and we'd look at vocational options and such if his mental/emotional issues allowed for work (didn't seem like it for years). But first he had made so much progress academically, socially....and then the mental/emotional issues. He started to seem so "normal." So I let myself think he would catch up and go to college and do whatever he wanted. Sometimes, if other thoughts creeped in, I'd squash them.

 

So he's 14 and I haven't looked at ANYTHING in terms of vocational training or whatever.

 

But now I'm thinking that being at his level isn't all that bad, but he is going to have to have life skills and a way to support himself (I do think he could live independently as an adult; I have very little doubt about that). But lots of people live life with a middle school education (with gaps) level. So he probably can also IF I do my part and ready him. He does still have a sleep problem and extreme forgetfulness. A few things are iffy if we can't get some help for those things. Maybe eating raw will be a good thing if we don't want him cooking (LOL). And I don't know what he'll do about driving. Those being two bigger examples. But hopefully we can get those issues worked on in time.

 

I won't give up on "pushing" a little...like Ottakee said...but I think I need to give up some of the general education because it's just learn and regurgitate and forget for the most part. And I think I need to look at some options for him.

 

As for "when he grows up...." Well, he'd LIKE to go into a computer field. I don't know what options are available there. He has also talked about doing more physical labor--assembly, landscaping, building projects. I actually got him woodworking (and figured he'd do carpentry next year) because of this. I also got him Horticulture (and figured he'd do agriculture next year). But he's not very good at the book learning parts of these. He tries, but....He does enjoy more "in practice" parts, but I'm not as good at making those thing happen consistently enough. I could work on that though. I'm really QUITE a book-smart kind of person myself. And so was my daughter. I need to do better on the practical side as that is really what my son needs.

 

Anyway, I guess I've just neglected a part of things in hopes that he'd just keep surpassing potentials handed down. But it's time to face reality. Again, I'm not giving up on all academics by any means, but I need to do some things a bit differently without academics being the focus, esp if this is just how it is.

[Pamela H in Texas]

OH....I forgot to mention.

 

Ty does watch Gregory (signature) each morning. It's usually about 7:15-8:30 so not long. But I think it's good for him. Gregory is a TOUGH kiddo with a lot going on with him so it isn't always perfect, but Ty has grown a lot trying. Some days going beautifully and I'm so proud of how capable Tyler is with Goo.

 

Also, Tyler has, a few times, asked if he had been as difficult as Gregory. He's apologized. He's also learning to be more empathetic to Goo's situation.

 

Added to that, Tyler does volunteer work 3-8 hours most weeks. It's not a whole lot but he enjoys it. Also, his behavior is a lot better when he participates regularly! He has wanted to do other volunteer work also, but he doesn't yet meet the requirements for those. It won't be long though.

 

He is interested in working. Now that he's a little taller, it'll probably help. He did ask one man in our congregation about working this past summer. Next year will probably work out a little better.

 

He is active in the congregation. He studies for meetings, participates most meetings, etc. So that is nice :)

 

Anyway, so those are some of the other things. :)

[chiguirre]

So he's 14 and I haven't looked at ANYTHING in terms of vocational training or whatever.

 

 

Honestly, I don't think you've missed that boat at all! This is the perfect time to investigate vo tech options. He's the right age to start them in one or two years and he's old enough to really judge if a program would be a good fit or not. If he's disabled enough, and I'm guessing he is, he'll be able to access public school training programs until he's 22. In our area, the cc offers vocational training to disabled adults and lots of kids attend ps until they're 22 and then switch to the cc until they're ready to move on to employment.

[Dobela]

Right now is the perfect time to begin looking. You are not behind at all. You need to seriously think ahead, and you are doing it. If he doesn't drive, he will just need to live near public transportation. Or live in a group home situation where they provide transportation. If he has emotional problems and outbursts, I would seriously consider NOT allowing him to drive. We just went thru a legal nightmare with my brother that began with an outburst with the police officer that pulled him over for no tail lights and escillated into the felony range.

 

You may want to call the local school and speak to the special education supervisor for the district. That person can tell you what options might be available locally and at what ages. My brother went thru a rehab program that offered a variety of job training. I know you aren't in my state, but maybe this will give you the terminology to search for in your state: http://www.arsinfo.org/default.aspx?id=29

[Pamela H in Texas]

Just to clarify because of two small parts of the responses....

 

My ds probably seems in almost normal range in terms of intelligence, mental/emotional capacity, behavior, etc to most people now. In the past, that was far from true. However, he has either stalled or come close to an upper limit. My guess is that as an adult, he'll seem/be the a little low level (speech impediment, middle school level, using humor to overcompensate, etc). His greatest disabilities seem like they will be things related to sleep and forgetfulness (can't drive a car if you can't stay awake long enough to get out of the subdivision, for example...and how many times has he forgotten to turn the toaster oven off or wash laundry?). Well, and then there is the issue of what he can do to support himself. I think I need to just broaden my thoughts there a little, look into what training is available, etc.

 

I was just trying to explain that his issues were moderate to severe as a little guy, but that he had progressed so much in all areas, far beyond what we could have hoped, so I had neglected to explore what we'd do if he did seem to stall or reach his limit. It seemed, for a time, that he could do anything he decided to though it might be a little tougher for him and may be a year or two later for him. Or at least that is what I decided to believe...

 

Really, I was trying to explain to a friend...I had it in my head that if someone could learn X then they could learn Y. So if it took a little longer, that is one thing, but that X came along so so would Y. Now, I'm starting to believe that that may be true to some degree for some people. Before my stroke, I could do anything I wanted. It was just a matter of CHOOSING to learn. But since, I have noticed there are some things I just can't overcome and other things that take so incredibly long to progress through.... And had he stayed as he was as a little kid, I probably would have "gotten it" sooner...

[Ottakee]

Sorry I can't remember everything about your son but I was wondering about the sleep and attention things.

 

Has he ever had a sleep study done? Sleep problems (narcolepsy, apnea, etc.) can really affect day time attention skills. There might be something they could do medically or with medication to help these issues.

 

Sounds like he has done very well and now is a great time to start looking at vocational programs. See what the local highschools offer. In our area, homeschoolers can attend the career vocational centers just like other highschoolers---and it is free.

 

Just to clarify because of two small parts of the responses....

 

His greatest disabilities seem like they will be things related to sleep and forgetfulness (can't drive a car if you can't stay awake long enough to get out of the subdivision, for example...and how many times has he forgotten to turn the toaster oven off or wash laundry?). ..

[chiguirre]

My ds probably seems in almost normal range in terms of intelligence, mental/emotional capacity, behavior, etc to most people now. In the past, that was far from true. However, he has either stalled or come close to an upper limit. My guess is that as an adult, he'll seem/be the a little low level (speech impediment, middle school level, using humor to overcompensate, etc). His greatest disabilities seem like they will be things related to sleep and forgetfulness (can't drive a car if you can't stay awake long enough to get out of the subdivision, for example...and how many times has he forgotten to turn the toaster oven off or wash laundry?). Well, and then there is the issue of what he can do to support himself. I think I need to just broaden my thoughts there a little, look into what training is available, etc.

 

 

:grouphug:

 

It's always hard to have to go through the grieving for our kids' difficulties all over again. Try to focus on the positives and remember that you'll get through this time. You still have many years before your ds is an adult and you never know what surprises those years will bring. The middle school years are a holding pattern for typical kids too, so I wouldn't be too upset about his lack of progress right now. In a year or two, he may be moving ahead again. Even if he doesn't, he does have the base right now to live a happy and productive life. You've given him a tremendous gift!

[Mom22ns]

Just to clarify because of two small parts of the responses....

 

My ds probably seems in almost normal range in terms of intelligence, mental/emotional capacity, behavior, etc to most people now. In the past, that was far from true. However, he has either stalled or come close to an upper limit. My guess is that as an adult, he'll seem/be the a little low level (speech impediment, middle school level, using humor to overcompensate, etc). His greatest disabilities seem like they will be things related to sleep and forgetfulness (can't drive a car if you can't stay awake long enough to get out of the subdivision, for example...and how many times has he forgotten to turn the toaster oven off or wash laundry?). Well, and then there is the issue of what he can do to support himself. I think I need to just broaden my thoughts there a little, look into what training is available, etc.

 

Could it be that he has stalled due to puberty? My oldest is only 12, but as I begin to lurk on the high school boards, the one thing I see consistently is that boys between 12-14 are in a brain fog and regress and learn little.

 

While I don't think there is anything at all wrong with looking for vocational training, and trying to help him find an interest that does not require a college degree, I would not quit teaching high school at the same time. You may be quite pleasantly surprised to find his brain returns as his hormones level off a bit :D. Take it slow, and try to pursue his interests. I would follow all the vo-tech advice and your husbands own experience of learning through using his hands if your son can find fulfillment through that. I just think this might be a temporary stall, not a permanent ceiling you have reached.

[Terabith]

What sort of issues does your son have?

[MommyJo]

Please don't think poorly of me.

 

Basically, at one point, I was convinced he would live here forever and we'd look at vocational options and such if his mental/emotional issues allowed for work (didn't seem like it for years). But first he had made so much progress academically, socially....and then the mental/emotional issues. He started to seem so "normal." So I let myself think he would catch up and go to college and do whatever he wanted. Sometimes, if other thoughts creeped in, I'd squash them.

 

So he's 14 and I haven't looked at ANYTHING in terms of vocational training or whatever.

 

But now I'm thinking that being at his level isn't all that bad, but he is going to have to have life skills and a way to support himself (I do think he could live independently as an adult; I have very little doubt about that). But lots of people live life with a middle school education (with gaps) level. So he probably can also IF I do my part and ready him. He does still have a sleep problem and extreme forgetfulness. A few things are iffy if we can't get some help for those things. Maybe eating raw will be a good thing if we don't want him cooking (LOL). And I don't know what he'll do about driving. Those being two bigger examples. But hopefully we can get those issues worked on in time.

 

I won't give up on "pushing" a little...like Ottakee said...but I think I need to give up some of the general education because it's just learn and regurgitate and forget for the most part. And I think I need to look at some options for him.

 

As for "when he grows up...." Well, he'd LIKE to go into a computer field. I don't know what options are available there. He has also talked about doing more physical labor--assembly, landscaping, building projects. I actually got him woodworking (and figured he'd do carpentry next year) because of this. I also got him Horticulture (and figured he'd do agriculture next year). But he's not very good at the book learning parts of these. He tries, but....He does enjoy more "in practice" parts, but I'm not as good at making those thing happen consistently enough. I could work on that though. I'm really QUITE a book-smart kind of person myself. And so was my daughter. I need to do better on the practical side as that is really what my son needs.

 

Anyway, I guess I've just neglected a part of things in hopes that he'd just keep surpassing potentials handed down. But it's time to face reality. Again, I'm not giving up on all academics by any means, but I need to do some things a bit differently without academics being the focus, esp if this is just how it is.

 

I know it may seem like you've hit a block but you just hit a MAJOR plus for yourself and him. I went to college for special education (all I lack is student teaching but right now do not plan to pursue being a teacher at this time due to homeschooling) so although I am not facing what you are facing, I have some experience. I would say to start moving into vocational training. In the school system that is exactly what we would be doing. Now is the time he could be learning all those life skills he is going to need. He may not do well on book work but maybe will respond to actual hands on learning. I'm not sure what special needs he is facing or I would probably give more specific advice but I will say that most every special needs situation does respond to life skills training. There are a few methods to teach these skills. When I worked with older students on the high school level I found it easiest for most to work on one skill at a time and when it was mastered I would go to the next step. So for instance if I was teaching a child to ride the bus, I would write down every step that needed to be taught (down to the little things that most overlook) and I would teach whatever I could at the school and take him/her to the bus station for those things which I couldn't such as getting on the bus and riding. If I were you I would work on vocational skills in the computer area (maybe there are some hands on modules or something you could get) and life skills such as cooking, washing clothes, all those things he will need to learn in the long run. You can get forms online that show you how to evaluate those skills and keep a log of how well they are getting by in learning those skills. In my service learning we taught something different for each area that would be a subject to other kids so instead of a history class maybe the child would learn how to wash dishes and instead of math they would learn to count money and pay for a meal at a restaurant (again they were taught different restaurant situations, depending on their functioning level). I hope this has helped in some way and if you need any further help or have any questions, feel free to pm me!! I hope everything works out for you. Just look at it as not the end of general education but the opening of a door to his future!

[Jan in SC]

I'm a little confused...has your son had evaluations of any sort? Are his disablilities actually diagnosed and have medical issues been examined thoroughly?

 

I know you have spoken of issues with him before, but I can't remember exactly what they are. It almost sounds, from your short description, that your child has memory and sleep isues more than education issues. Have you ruled out a seizure disorder? If you've already detailed this and I missed it, then sorry!

[Pamela H in Texas]

Tyler has multiple dxes.

 

It all started with him being a little premature (actually is was a miserable pregnancy and I was on bedrest the entire thing!). And then major "apnea" including blue spells and a couple hospitalizations the first year. Originally, they said autism (and he seemed pretty moderate), but because of the progress, by 6, he was "downgraded" to PDD-NOS. Between issues due to oxygen deprivation and autism signs, he seemed pretty low level at first, didn't have much communication other than screaming, etc. I saw some signs of intelligence and capability but I think professionals thought I was reading too much into things, making things up (wishful thinking), etc.

 

A lot of issues we tied to sensory issues. He was very mixed. He couldn't walk on grass but would burn himself on food. He headbang, bit (self and others), etc from years. He was always doing something extreme or in response to something he felt was extreme (throwing his back up against siding, spinning madly, etc).

 

I do think that the sleep issues SIGNIFICANTLY affect his schoolwork and retention and obviously memory type issues would also. Other dxes are in regards to reading difficulties and speech. His IQ is a bit high though with off areas. Processing speed is extremely low (however, so is my dd's). I also think we are probably MISSING some dxes.

 

And then we had a handful of mental/behavioral dxes, most of which he doesn't seem to fit any longer, at least for the most part. I kinda think they were misdxes due to sleep issues and/or autism spectrum...However, considering family history and symptoms, I most certainly understand where he got them. His experience there includes medication trials, two hospitalizations, etc.

 

EEG, EKG, MRI, etc all normal. Thyroid fine, Cholesterol a tad high (though I doubt that is true now). Ongoing bedwetting issues (we're using the Enuersis Treatment Center now). Hearing and Vision are normal.

 

Anyway, but most people now would notice that he's a little low level and has a speech impediment, but most wouldn't guess any of the above.

Edited October 13, 2009 by 2J5M9K

[Jan in SC]

Have you met with a really good pediatric educational psychologist lately? Of course you need to find one that is pro-homeschooling!:001_smile:

 

I think a good ed-psych and current testing would give the information you need to get through high school. Our ed-psych is really hands-on and will find every possible resource for our child.

 

If you haven't seen a neurologist recently, I would follow up with that, too. I think that about 40% of seizures are not seen on an eeg. A 5 or 6 day video eeg is sometimes very helpful. (It did not recognize my child's seizures, but I think they are better then a routine one time eeg.)

 

I've seen tons of your posts and I think you are doing a wonderful job! My son is much younger, and it is frustrating and exhausting to go through this. Good luck!