I need prayers and well wishes, bad cub scout drama

[LG Gone Wild]

I'll try and make this short. I've posted before about a kid disliking and bullying my ds. Kid is mentally challenged.

 

Boys went to Webelos Woods. My ds p$ssed off everybody there with his annoying ADHD behaviour. Ds had to be disciplined several times (wandering off by himself, leaving his buddy, scraping moss off a rock, arguing with adults and stuff like that). Kid threatens to kill my kid, cut him with a knife, and throw him out of the car window on the ride home.

 

I complain. Had meeting with Den leaders of two dens. They complain about ds's behaviour and that ds had irritated a lot of people. Essentially, ds had driven the boy to insanity. I replied ds is annoying but that other kid was already a problem for ds. Nobody else had to endure murder threats. Despite ds being incredibly irritating, he's not a danger to anyone unless he set the camp on fire accidentally. And that this isn't the first incident about the boy posing a threat to my son. What's worse, being annoying or being dangerous? I also pointed out that despite my son's many faults, he isn't mean or malevolent. No one would catch him threatening to stab another person.

 

I was told that an adult witnessed my son go up to the other boy and say something. Then the two of them started arguing. Adult didn't hear what my son said. Person just say two boys argue, "Yes, you did! No, I didn't." They think ds went out of his way to instigate some kind of arguement with the other boy. We tried to get ds to tell us that part but he couldn't remember.

 

That conversation was last night. This morning ds told me he remembered what that was about. Earlier during the camp, some the scouts were eating at a bench. Two scouts were having a conversation that didn't include ds or the other boy. A couple of phrases were uttered, "A big, fat pig" and "b*tch". Ds said the other boy accused ds of calling him those names. Boy got up, went to some adults. The adults told ds that they were going to separate the two boys. Ds said the adults didn't let him speak so he didn't get a chance to tell them he didn't call anyone any names.

 

So that conversation where an adult witnessed my son speaking to the other boy was ds telling the other boy that he didn't call him any names and the other boy insisting that he did.

 

Ds says that those phrases weren't said in any name calling fashion, that the boys who uttered them were talking about something totally different. One of the boys had argued to angered boy that ds didn't say those things but angered boy refused to believe him.

 

Among many problems, I am concerned my ds annoyed so many people at the camp that they aren't going to believe my ds.

 

No, I don't think my ds called anybody names, especially "b#tch". My son has other ways of irritating people. If he were going to call someone a name, it would be a completely immature one that wouldn't make any d@mn sense.

 

I am waiting to hear back from the den leader. He wants to talk to the other boy and his mom, who is the assistant den leader and chair of advancements.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Is there anyway to attend outings so you can get a better idea? For my ds, since he is socially award, one of us will always be there for the foreseeable future:) If that does not work then maybe another troop? Please excuse my advice if it is overly obvious or redundant;). MY husband calls me the master of the obvious;).

[LG Gone Wild]

We do, just not this one because DH had to work unexpectedly. I did make the point to the den leaders that we attend these outings not only to keep an eye on ds but to make sure other boy doesn't harm him.

[JudoMom]

I am waiting to hear back from the den leader. He wants to talk to the other boy and his mom, who is the assistant den leader and chair of advancements.

 

Yikes. Is there another troop you can join?

 

That really stinks :grouphug:.

[LG Gone Wild]

Yikes. Is there another troop you can join?

 

That really stinks :grouphug:.

 

Yes, but ds was crushed when I told that this might not work out in his favor and that we might have to find another pack. He is attached to this pack.

[JudoMom]

Yes, but ds was crushed when I told that this might not work out in his favor and that we might have to find another pack. He is attached to this pack.

 

Can your son just pull out a few jujitsu moves on the kid, then ;)?

 

(Just kidding. I don't really advocate violence.)

[Pink Fairy]

Do you have a feel for whether or not the other boy is truly dangerous, or just has a bad temper and a big mouth? If you think he's dangerous, or even if you aren't sure, then I suggest you don't *ever* allow your son to participate in activities without you.

 

What a crappy situation to have to deal with! :grouphug:

[LG Gone Wild]

Can your son just pull out a few jujitsu moves on the kid, then ;)?

 

(Just kidding. I don't really advocate violence.)

 

I wish. My son only has the capability of fighting in a ring. He cannot street fight. He would allow himself to get sucker punched or whatever. It's not in him.

[Avila]

:grouphug: Just wanted to extend some sympathy. My 8 yo DD has her moments, and I am always afraid to leave her anywhere for some of the same reasons.

Edited October 6, 2009 by Asenik

[LG Gone Wild]

Do you have a feel for whether or not the other boy is truly dangerous, or just has a bad temper and a big mouth? If you think he's dangerous, or even if you aren't sure, then I suggest you don't *ever* allow your son to participate in activities without you.

 

What a crappy situation to have to deal with! :grouphug:

 

He has already shoved my son to the ground without provocation and ripped off one of his patches. We talked then about separating the two but well, they are in the same den.

 

I am not sure how this is going to work out.

[JudoMom]

He has already shoved my son to the ground without provocation and ripped off one of his patches. We talked then about separating the two but well, they are in the same den.

 

I am not sure how this is going to work out.

 

This really, really stinks. I am sorry that your ds and you are having to deal with this. It really sounds like he's getting the short end of the stick because of who the other kid's mom is.

[Pink Fairy]

I think I remember reading about this and being outraged for your poor son.

 

My brother has ADHD, and I remember how difficult he was. I wish I could go back in time and be a better, more understanding sister. Whatever happens with your son, he is lucky to have you to go to bat for him! :grouphug:

[johnandtinagilbert]

Regardless of the outcome of the conversation situation, I'd be very concerned that perhaps this is at a point of no reconciliation. If the den masters are basically excusing such extreme threats b/c your son is annoying, it sounds like they have given up. If ds is annoying to that extreme, perhaps the environment is not best suited for his needs either.

 

Perhaps either switching troops, or giving ds more time to mature and joining again later is in order.

[LG Gone Wild]

This really, really stinks. I am sorry that your ds and you are having to deal with this. It really sounds like he's getting the short end of the stick because of who the other kid's mom is.

 

Thank you for your support. I must say, the other mom is not the problem. She really isn't. I wish she was MY mom. Her son is in scouts because he can't do anything else. She is so active in scouting because she is trying to make a place for her son. Without her, he would be nowhere.

 

Ds may or may not get a fair shake because of her but it's not because she will insist on it. She's a fixture and a worthy one. It's my guess that people put up with the boy because they care for and like the mom. We all know that we have to be careful of her son.

[Samiam]

The thing is, from my few weeks of being a Den leader, all of this behaviour is so against what the Scouts stand for. The leaders should have become more involved in this situation and not take one boy's word over another's. As far as them saying your child is annoying to the point where the other boy had not option to offer murdering your DS, that is so unacceptable from Pack Leaders, it's not even close to funny.

 

The thing is, you might just have to make a parental decision and do something your son might not like at first, but may be better off in the long run.

1. Consider just changing Dens, instead of the the entire Pack. This would keep your son away from the other child for a majority of the time.

2. Change Packs altogether if the Leaders of thepack have already made their decision that your son is "annoying", and it's always going to be his fault. Your son might not agree, but maybe it will be better in the end if he gets a fresh start.

3. Never let your son go without you...even if that means you have to cancel outings at the last minute due to work. DS will be upset at the time, but will get over it soon enough...that's the cool thing with kids...they move on.

 

Other than this, if you are not willing to do one or several of these things, I guess it's going to just have to be something you live with.

[LG Gone Wild]

DS will be upset at the time, but will get over it soon enough...that's the cool thing with kids...they move on.

 

 

 

That's true. He told me he had a great time at Webelos Woods.:001_huh:

 

I am going to wait and see. They are going to talk with the Unit Chief and some of the other leaders. I want to know what the assessment is and then I'll know what to do.

[LauraGB]

If I may ask, how old is your son?

 

Does he know that the adults feel he is annoying (which I don't feel is a very responsible reaction on the part of the adults!)? Do the other children feel the same way? It would break my heart if he did - it would be quite a blow to the self esteem. Since he wants to stay, it almost seems like he isn't aware of these feelings (which is good because it does sound like your ds is pretty young). Since it doesn't look like the other kid is going to switch dens or packs, is it possible for you to suggest all the benefits of starting over fresh with another one?

 

Its a tough situation and I'm sorry for you and your ds. Sounds a lot like something that could happen with my ds if I wasn't always standing right there to thwart the situation, which is unreasonable to expect all the time. :grouphug:

[LG Gone Wild]

If I may ask, how old is your son?

 

Does he know that the adults feel he is annoying (which I don't feel is a very responsible reaction on the part of the adults!)? Do the other children feel the same way? It would break my heart if he did - it would be quite a blow to the self esteem. Since he wants to stay, it almost seems like he isn't aware of these feelings (which is good because it does sound like your ds is pretty young). Since it doesn't look like the other kid is going to switch dens or packs, is it possible for you to suggest all the benefits of starting over fresh with another one?

 

Its a tough situation and I'm sorry for you and your ds. Sounds a lot like something that could happen with my ds if I wasn't always standing right there to thwart the situation, which is unreasonable to expect all the time. :grouphug:

 

My son is 10. He has been told. Perhaps that sounds harsh thing to say but it's done in effort to curb annoying behaviours. "Look, you are annoying when you X,Y, Z. Don't do that."

 

Ds is annoying but also really likeable. Strange combo, but there it is.

 

I was upset to hear all of this but in a way, I feel a little vindicated. I am not crazy, my ds is difficult, it's not my fault, and yes, I do have to be there every second. I was worried I might be a helicopter mom but it turns out I was just being prudent.

[Wendi]

 

Ds is annoying but also really likeable. Strange combo, but there it is.

 

 

 

Hey! So is my son! :lol::001_huh:

 

Wendi

[my2kidsmom]

I know it may sound extreme to some, but I would suggest filing a police report. Threatening to kill someone is illegal, even it you are just a kid. I don't care how weird, annoying, or whatever someone is the kids that made the threat needs some accountability.

[lionfamily1999]

I think the den leaders and the pack leader need to start fresh with both boys, starting with a discussion on the rules. I totally agree with you, threats are out of line. They should not be a part of scouts, they have no place in scouts and the leaders (especially the ass. den leader - the boy's mother) should have nipped that in the bud.

 

I have an ADHD boy in my den. The other kids are not allowed to be rude, mean, or exlude him from activities. Granted, he can be annoying, but I will not stand for cliques developing in my den. He is a cub, he helps the pack "go" as much as everyone else and the pack has a responsibility to help him "grow."

 

I really think that the den leaders, pack leader, parents and both your son and the other boy need to sit down and start over. It sounds like exceptions have been made for both kids to the extent where the lines have disappeared. They should be reestablished and both boys allowed to start with a clean slate and clear understanding of acceptable behavior and the consequences of behaving other wise.

[LG Gone Wild]

Granted, he can be annoying, but I will not stand for cliques developing in my den. He is a cub, he helps the pack "go" as much as everyone else and the pack has a responsibility to help him "grow."

 

 

 

Thank you for that. I will remember those words.

[shadowcat]

Regardless of whether or not your son was annoying, regardless of whether or not he upset the other kid, the other child was also wrong, and his behaviors have to be addressed. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

I know nothing about your situation but those leaders sound very immature to me.

[mirth]

Has anyone in your pack ever read the BSA's Guide to Safe Scouting?

 

The whole point of boy scouts is for boys to have strong male role models. It only takes a few dim bulbs at the top to make an organization flop.

 

I would seriously consider switching packs. To quote directly: "Misbehavior by a single youth member in a Scouting unit may constitute a threat to the safety of the individual who misbehaves as well as to the safety of other unit members. Such misbehavior constitutes an unreasonable burden on a Scout unit and cannot be ignored."

 

It is followed by: "All members of the Boy Scouts of America are expected to conduct themselves in accordance with the principles set forth in the Scout Oath and Law. Physical violence, hazing, bullying, theft, verbal insults, and drugs and alcohol have no place in the Scouting program and may result in the revocation of a Scout's membership in the unit."

 

These leaders need to step up to the plate in order to deserve the titles of leader before things get more out of hand.

[LG Gone Wild]

Has anyone in your pack ever read the BSA's Guide to Safe Scouting?

 

The whole point of boy scouts is for boys to have strong male role models. It only takes a few dim bulbs at the top to make an organization flop.

 

I would seriously consider switching packs. To quote directly: "Misbehavior by a single youth member in a Scouting unit may constitute a threat to the safety of the individual who misbehaves as well as to the safety of other unit members. Such misbehavior constitutes an unreasonable burden on a Scout unit and cannot be ignored."

 

It is followed by: "All members of the Boy Scouts of America are expected to conduct themselves in accordance with the principles set forth in the Scout Oath and Law. Physical violence, hazing, bullying, theft, verbal insults, and drugs and alcohol have no place in the Scouting program and may result in the revocation of a Scout's membership in the unit."

 

These leaders need to step up to the plate in order to deserve the titles of leader before things get more out of hand.

 

 

I am sure they have. I imagine that it's a hard thing to face. Kind of like having contractions and denying you are having contractions, thinking you have indigestion or something. Truly, I have no idea what they think about everything.

 

I went into the meeting with the other boy's deeds in my mind. They came to the meeting with my son's deeds in their mind. I wasn't expecting to hear what they had to say and they weren't expecting what I had to say, exactly. So they have to mull over some stuff. It's all very unpleasant and unsettling so they have to dig deep just like I do.

 

 

I don't know what to expect or what I want to happen. They asked me and I said I didn't know and that I don't know what the solution is. I am not after a pound of flesh but this thing cannot go unnoticed.

 

So...I wait.

[Anne in CA]

My heart really goes out to you. My ds annoyed so many people his first year of scouting that he alienated a lot of people permanently, even though he has matured and his behavior and personality has changed so much. The adults in the troop see the change, but Jr high, High School age kids do not seem to forget. My ds was crushed not to be voted Order of the Arrow. He has worked so hard with so many boys on their Eagle projects and done so much for the troop. He really deserved to be voted in, but more popular boys who hadn't done nearly as much were voted in.

 

I would never have let him go without me or dh in retrospect. I haven't read all the replies, and maybe someone had a better suggestion, but I really think one of you needs to be there to protect him from himself. My experience is that being annoying is seen as the worst crime, no matter what someone else did.

[lionfamily1999]

Thank you for that. I will remember those words.

:) glad I could help. I hope it works out for your ds. :grouphug:

 

It's never easy seeing your dc hurt... hug the little guy for me please :)