Update on dh's opinion of homeschooling- long

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

After again nagging dh to read at least the first two chapters of WTM, he finally did and we sat down and had another long discussion about homeschooling.

 

He agrees that the classical education model as described by the book seems like and ideal way for kids to learn and that our boys would definitely benefit from that kind of education. His solution? I should run for the local school board and campaign for this type of education to be taught in the public schools. I'm not kidding, that's what he said.

 

I quickly disabused him of that thought, by pointing out the dozens of flaws in his plan, not the least of which being that by the time I got anyone to take me seriously, it would be way too late for our kids!

 

Then we had the whole social interaction thing again. He thinks that the kids need to learn to be tough and stick up for themselves, and the only way that will truly happen is if they are left to fend for themselves in a school setting. I reminded him of his sister, who was tormented all throughout school because of her large nose. She never learned to be tough and stick up for herself. At 41, she still doesn't stick up for herself. He blames himself for that because he fought many of her battles for her. I told him I think he's mistaken about this theory that they will learn to stick up for themselves, because being in a group of peers does not encourage individuality. It encourages trying to fit in and be like everyone else. We agreed to disagree on this issue.

 

As far as his concerns about the kids not having a core group of friends, I reminded him that we signed older ds up for cub scouts and that that kind of organization and participation in things like that would provide a group of friends. The kids also go to Sunday School and play soccer through the community soccer league. There are also kids their ages on our street with whom they play. He still doesn't think this is the same as having school friends. Whatever!

 

On to his next argument- they would miss out on all the extra things a school could provide- like sports and drama, etc. I did tell him that there are homeschool co-ops and community education opportunities for these types of experiences. I also told him that they could participate in these things at public school, while simultaneously homeschooling. In the latter case, he says they would be outsiders and ostracized. In the former case, he says all these extra activities along with having to purchase curricula would be a lot of extra money we just can't afford, which leads me to our next item of discussion.

 

I suggested working in the evenings, cleaning offices or something, to make the money to cover these things. He categorically refused, saying that would mean he would need to be home every evening, and he needs a couple of nights a week to "let off steam". He has a regular poker game at our house on Thursday nights, and he goes to the track with his cousin usually once a week- he doesn't gamble much money. It's more entertainment for him than gambling, so I don't mind. He keeps track of every penny and he's never down more than $10.00, so that's not really an issue for me. Since poker is at our house, that wouldn't really affect my working, so it would just interfere with his track night. I reminded him that I would be the one homeschooling full time and working at night, and would therefore have even less of a life than he would have, and he says I haven't thought it through. I told him I did think it through, and I am willing to sacrifice some of my freedom for our children's education. He said he is not willing to do that. "We need to have a life.", says he. Before I started having a problem with ds6 schooling, we had always planned on my going back to work at least part time once they were in school. We take care of dh's mother and help other family members financially and are always living on the edge. I do understand that and would like to earn money, but not at the expense of my kids' education.

 

Another of his arguments is that thousands of people graduate from public schools and go on to become doctors, lawyers, engineers, financial anylists, etc., etc., etc. I agreed that there are people who are intelligent enough and motivated enough to overcome the shortcomings of a public education and succeed in life. (I did ask him if he knew how many of those kids had to take remedial classes once they got to college. I taught French 102 at a state university and had to teach the parts of speech to the class before I could start my first lesson, which was supposed to be on relative pronouns. No one could tell me what a pronoun was, and only one could tell me what a noun was, and he was a grad student from New Zealand!)

 

He thinks that if we (meaning me, of course) continue with the afterschooling, that, along with the public education, will be enough. I think that our kids are extremely bright little people, whose minds are going to slowly atrophy, because there is no way that I can work a part-time job, do all the cleaning, grocery shopping, cooking, AND afterschooling. It's not going to work. Dh helps very little around the house, even though he thinks he helps a lot. That is the subject of another thread, entirely, though.;) I think they deserve a whole lot better.

 

Thanks for listening to my rant.

[J'etudie]

No answers but just wanted to say I'm praying for your family. I came to love homeschooling before dh, though I was blessed that his support followed quickly...maybe because we both taught/teach ps and knew we could give our kids a better education at home. I will say that our life today is nothing like we planned when we were first married so what seems impossible today may be reality in the future.

[Sue G in PA]

Lynn, I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. It is so hard when you and dh don't see eye to eye. My dh and I were arguing over this very thing for months this past year. I finally had to submit and send our 3 oldest to ps this year. I know that I couldn't hs w/out my dh's support or his help around the house. And my dh does do a lot. As for you dh "letting off steam"...please don't get me started. Do YOU ever get a chance to let off steam? That will be even more important when you homeschool. You WILL need a break, some time to recharge and if your dh doesn't see that it will make for big-time challenges and lots of resentment. Ask me how I know. :glare: I'm blessed that dh and I have come to an understanding and that God has really worked on dh's heart. But we still have our challenges and I still need my time for ME. I'm praying you and dh can come to an agreement on this or that God will give you peace that you are doing what you can do right now and that HE will take care of your kids. :grouphug:

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Thanks, ladies, for your responses. I'm hoping that the continual lack of learning at school, will eventually persuade dh to at least let me try out hs for a year.

 

Sue, although dh doesn't do much around the house, he does always let me get out and "let off steam." I have a great group of mom friends from my kids' preschool, and we plan Moms' Night Out, at least once a month. I also will just say I need to go out by myself and hang at the library or bookstore, and he never has a problem with it. I also go to all kinds of scrapbooking crops, and he always willingly works out his schedule so that he's home. I'm going to a 48 hour crop on the first weekend in October, and he's actually taking off work early so that I can get there by 3:00 PM on Friday. I really can't complain about that area. That's why I think he thinks I haven't thought about what it would mean to work in the evenings and homeschool all day. I know it would be extremely difficult, and I would get burnt out, but the beauty of homeschooling is that I can take a day off if I need to.

 

I know I'm going to have to work all this out, but it does help to have this place to come to as a sounding board.

 

Thanks, again!

[Sue G in PA]

I'm so glad your dh is accomodating in that area! That is so very helpful. Vent anytime you want! It is very helpful to have a sounding board. And, I pray that you will work this out for the best! Oh, and I am sorry if you thought I was coming down on your dh...this is just a big pet peeve of mine b/c I have a lot of friends whose dh do NOT "allow" them time off and yet think it is perfectly okay for them to play softball, go out with the guys, golf on the weekends, etc. Meanwhile, my friends are all depressed, burnt out, ready to run away...So, sorry if I jumped the gun on that one and "assumed". :D

[BabyBre]

 

I also told him that they could participate in these things at public school, while simultaneously homeschooling. In the latter case, he says they would be outsiders and ostracized.

 

 

My arguement to that is why on earth would he want them to be socialized in an environment that fosters that? And it does, you're exactly right about mass socialization discouraging individualism. What it fosters is conformity. Is that what he's arguing for?

 

It is. My dh and I had the very same "discussion" many times over the four years that we homeschooled. Dh's arguement is that they need to be "normal". I can't explain the extent to which that one eats me up, even now as I write it again! This mentality is the result of the amazing "progressive" machine. Government education is the only way one can fit in and be successful in life? Seriously? Yes, my dh even argued against private school. I won't get started in this thread, but it's the progressive line of thought that supports this arguement.

 

Anyway, I finally chose peace over my dc's educations, and I'm more exhausted now at the end of the day from what I feel I have to do to protect them than I was after homeschooling all day. It's more stressful and our family is together less. I'm actually not trying to discourage you, but it's the truth. However, if you ask my dh, he'll have a bit rosier picture of it. He's happy that he gets quiet time in the house when he gets home, and that the kids have their little social groups (although they're mostly made up of neighborhood kids and those on their sports teams, both of which have nothing to do with their being in school 6 hours a day).

 

My advice would be to consider these questions. This is what helped me reach my decision.

 

Will homeschooling against your dh's wishes jeopardize your marriage?

 

Is there one of you (you or your dh) who is better at adapting to difficult situations? In our marriage, it's me, so I was better able to deal with the emotional ramifications of sacrificing my ardent beliefs to appease him. Every year, dh would finally concede the decision to me until it was time to register for the next school year. Then we would have the same explosive arguements again. I'm better at keeping it in and putting on my happy face, so I finally conceded to him. I feel like this makes it sound like a simple decision, but I'm sure you know it wasn't.

 

My last piece of advice is that if you think you could convince him to allow a trial of a year or two (I would try for at least two because year one could be difficult), do it BEFORE they go into public school. Your dc are very young, so you could argue that not much damage could be done at their age. ;) But once they're acclamated to the ps environment and used to being over-stimulated for 6 hours a day, used to being fed by the social and emotional drama of mass socialization, and not to mention dumbed down by likely inferior curricula and instruction, it may be very hard to then move them into a controlled study environment at home with more rigorous academics and without the level of distraction they had in ps.

 

Sue and I have had good talks. You can pm me anytime if you'd like to talk and/or comiserate!

[Tidbits of Learning]

Oh, how I feel your pain! I was that afterschooling Mom for the last 4 years. I had grown up in a private school not public and knew we could not afford that type of schooling with 4 children. We live in a good school district according to the state. I relented to sending them to public school and afterschooling. As they got older, I was more or less teaching them at home not afterschooling. They had so much homework and it was if they weren't being taught at school. They would have no clue with the math homework especially. There was no time to afterschool in 2nd and 3rd grade. Well, I wound up teaching what they didn't learn at school and then we did their school homework. We would begin after school and wouldn't finish until supper and bath time. Yes, I could have just let them at the homework and made sure it was completed and not checked for correct answers like other public school parents were doing. Then those same parents wondered how could their children be getting c's and d's and how was my dd still getting A's in 2nd and 3rd grade.

As the years went on, my oldest dd had a horrible time in school and was bullied a lot. DH agreed to let me homeschool full-time this summer and we would address it again before school began this year. Well, he thought I would go insane with all 4 children and full-time homeschool. The kids loved it and so did I. He still wouldn't relent.

Then, one night during a car ride to my ds's ball game, my dd9 had a long talk with dh about homeschool and public school that I was not privy to hearing. I had stayed home with the other children that night. I still don't know what she said to him, but he agreed to homeschooling.

It may take your child coming to him one day and giving him the hard truth of public school in order for him to see the light about the type of socialization and bullying that occurs.

Just be ready when he does see the light.

[ElizabethB]

:grouphug:

 

You could tutor for some additional money while homeschooling. I would make up a big spreadsheet with costs and expenses on each side. If you work and afterschool, you'll be spending a lot more on clothes, eating out, grocery bills. There are also some school related costs--school supplies, etc. I would poll parents in your school in the next few grades to see what kind of school related expenses to expect.

 

If you homeschool, you'll be spending money on curriculum, but with more time to comparison shop, less money on food, less eating out.

 

At the lower grades, you will have a lot of free time, and you children can be with you while you tutor and sit quietly and do "homework" or color or something not too fun to distract your students.

 

Every school we have I've lived near except one has had students in need of tutoring, and other schools nearby had many students, and also transfers in from schools that taught with sight words and fuzzy math programs had problems.

 

If your local schools are like most schools, they will teach the dolch sight words and 30 to 40% of the students will have reading difficulties.

 

Seeing the constant parade of students who couldn't read in every state we've lived in was part of the reason my husband became a fan of homeschooling.

 

Here are some ideas for how to start tutoring, you could start now with a student or two once a week to get an idea of how it could work out:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76388

[Laura Corin]

About 'standing up for yourself'. Calvin went to school for a couple of years. He was terrified in the playground and was well on his way to being the butt of bullying. He just wasn't able to stand up for himself. Over the last six years he has grown into himself, has learned to deal with other children through structured contact, and is now ready to stand on his own feet. Some of the things that he tells me now about scouts are a bit hair-raising, but he has enough individual self confidence that they really don't worry him. I don't think that this would have happened without home education; instead, he would have been crushed from the beginning.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

[Mad Jenny Flint]

My son is similar to hers in this regard. He is now 14 and much more self-confident. Not a go-along-to-get-along guy, and more sure of his own values. This has been cultivated over the years through lots of structured, supervised group involvement. In many schools there is much more of a Lord of the Flies mentality and teachers take a very hands-off approach. How does anyone learn from their experiences if they do not have the benefit of an adviser/mediator and if they realize very early on that there is no assurance that they will be protected out there on the playground, or anywhere else? It is a training ground for dysfunctional behavior because it's a dysfunctional system. How can a child who is bullied and victimized really blossom in such an environment?

 

Moreover, it is not the real world. In a job, you have politics and some weird people to deal with, for sure... but you also have a chain of command and guidelines for appropriate behavior written in company policy. In addition, you have laws and police in society and there are expectations for a certain level of behavior. Finally, by the time you are working or attending college, you have (we hope) grown into adulthood and found your values and some level of self-worth. It is too much to expect children to find these while battling each day just to protect themselves emotionally or physically. And I haven't even addressed trying to learn in the classroom while doing this.

[st_claire]

What if you sat down with your dh and explained that you will be homeschooling, and work with him from that point to make it work best for your family. Say give it a year and then you all can reevaluate.

 

But you are their mother. No one, not even their father, will ever care for them like you will. You need to get "mama bear" like and put your foot down.

[Barb_]

I agree. Tell him you want to pull them out for the year and homeschool them. Many a husband (mother-in-law, neighbor, grandparent) has been brought round to the dark side by the obvious advantages and results over the course of a year or two. If his worse fears do not materialize, he will likely relax. A compromise is really called for here.

 

Barb

[SheWillFly]

because there is no way that I can work a part-time job, do all the cleaning, grocery shopping, cooking, AND afterschooling. It's not going to work.

I am not being snarky at all. If you don't think afterschooling is going to work while doing the rest how is homeschooling going to work? You mention getting a part-time job to make it happen so you'd be taking on more than if you just afterschooled. I'm not saying you should do one or the other just posing something for you to think about.

 

Also, before you jump into just pulling your children without the support of your husband think long and hard about how that action will effect your marriage and if your children are going to know that you two are not acting in unity.

 

We had homeschooled through the summer and it really helped my oldest be open to afterschooling in a classical charlotte mason style. She is now the one asking me. Ooh, I ran out of time. Gotta go.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I don't have answers for you, but a couple points to ponder.

 

1. I really don't see equity on the "time to pursue personal interests" thing. Two nights a week vs. a couple times a month really doesn't seem equitable. It's not so much about keeping score, but with the attitude of entitlement. Being gone twice a week to do something fun is not conducive to family unity when it is used as an excuse to hold others back and keep the status quo.

 

2. He is completely wrong on the bullying thing. Time and time again, the "toughening them up" theory has been promoted and time and time again, it has been shown to be a lot of bunk. True, some kids do learn to manage bullying. But many do not. I was bullied in school (a private school at that.) I did not have siblings to stand up for me (big age gap.) I didn't have any friends at school because kids learned early on not to stand up to bullies or even associate with their targets because it made them targets too. I did not learn to stand up for myself. It did not make me stronger. It set me up for a lifetime of self-esteem issues and depression. It took nearly twenty years for me to be able to even hear my tormentors names or my "special nickname" without having feelings of severe anxiety. I may have learned social skills later on, but mostly, I learned avoidance. I still suffer the side effects of things that happened to me years ago. In my years homeschooling, I have met so many women who have been beaten down by those early "life lessons." I have met men too, but they tend to hold it in and not share that humiliating time of their lives. They still carry the wounds.

Back to the kids who do learn to deal ... they may be able to extricate themselves from it, but few do so without a cost. Many bullied kids become bullies themselves. Many learn a callousness for their fellow human beings. I did learn a bit of this in order to survive high school and I regret some things I did, including dropping some friends (good, dear people) for fear of becoming a target again.

 

Oh, and homeschooling is not a guarantee against bullying. My oldest son has experienced it in the neighborhood and at scouts. Even with his limited contact with bullies and efforts on my part to help create positive social situations, he has not come out unscathed.

 

A good book on this subject is The Bully, The Bullied and the Bystander by Barbara Coloroso.

 

You are in my prayers about this. May you and your dh come to some peace on this issue.

[sleepymommy]

I didn't see your original post about your issues with dh and homeschooling. I'd like to just share what finally worked for me on getting dh onboard. On a road trip, I read aloud to him John Taylor Gatto's "Dumbing us Down". It's an easy read. I emphasized how it was written by the NY state teacher of the year. After reading it, we had an in-depth conversation about our personal experiences in public school. His was much better, educationally speaking, than the one I went to but they still had some striking similarities.

 

Good luck:grouphug:

[justamouse]

Well, here's a caveat emptor: I don't do the submissive thing, and Dh would freak if I did, so....

 

 

We fought, I told him I was doing it, we fought some more and I did it. It took him less than two years to come around and now he's my biggest supporter and I have the amex plugged in at amazon with no limits.

 

Dh never did 'weird'. I'm the first to try. Sometimes he needs to be pulled along kicking and screaming, but later admits it was awesome.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Well, here's a caveat emptor: I don't do the submissive thing, and Dh would freak if I did, so....

 

 

We fought, I told him I was doing it, we fought some more and I did it. It took him less than two years to come around and now he's my biggest supporter and I have the amex plugged in at amazon with no limits.

 

Dh never did 'weird'. I'm the first to try. Sometimes he needs to be pulled along kicking and screaming, but later admits it was awesome.

 

I am not being snarky at all. If you don't think afterschooling is going to work while doing the rest how is homeschooling going to work? You mention getting a part-time job to make it happen so you'd be taking on more than if you just afterschooled. I'm not saying you should do one or the other just posing something for you to think about.

 

Also, before you jump into just pulling your children without the support of your husband think long and hard about how that action will effect your marriage and if your children are going to know that you two are not acting in unity.

 

We had homeschooled through the summer and it really helped my oldest be open to afterschooling in a classical charlotte mason style. She is now the one asking me. Ooh, I ran out of time. Gotta go.

 

I was thinking that if I homeschooled full time, year round, I would probably only do it formally 3 days a week, at least for the first few years. That way I would have 2 weekdays to get shopping, cleaning, etc. done. And, it wouldn't interfere with working in the evenings. Somehow, in my mind, I picture a daytime job and afterschooling to be more of a challenge, unless I could find a day job that was only a few days a week. I don't know.

 

Justamouse, I don't really do the submission thing, either. We are an interreligious family, who take our kids to a reform temple, but we are not "religious" at all. I do believe in God, but not in any organized religion kind of way. So, that really isn't a factor. It's just that I don't want to take on such a massive life change if dh is not at all supportive of it. I'll really need his help to make it work. I know he's majorly worried about money right now, so that is a big part of it. We've always talked about my going back to work when the kids were in school full time. This was not in our plans at all. I just can't stand the thought that my kids are not learning what they could be learning.

Edited September 24, 2009 by thescrappyhomeschooler
left out a word

[EthiopianFood]

:grouphug: I don't have a magic solution to your problem, but I'm really feeling your situation. I hope he comes around somehow, I really do. To me, it sounds like he's already made up his mind, and no amount of reasoning will change it. Maybe let it rest for awhile, since your son is already in school. Keep showing your dh the garbage ds is doing at school, preferably without saying anything, maybe just a look (does he recognize work that is inappropriate for your son?). I wouldn't just homeschool on my own either, and it has nothing to do with religion. You're right, this is too big an issue on which to just disregard his opinion. Maybe you could just bide your time until summer. Keep showing him the work. Show him what your kids are doing at home! Will he see the obvious difference? It doesn't sound like you have a lot of extra time, but if it is feasible, maybe even try to get them involved in a weekend homeschool group (maybe it doesn't exist, ha) to show him how they would be socialized. Or just figure out what group/s in which you would participate, and mention them to him occasionally. Oh, here's another field trip they're going on, whatever. Then, bring it up again next summer (or Christmas break, if you think it would do any good). Maybe he'll be more open.

 

I forgot about the financial aspect. Like a PP said, figure out the costs of both options, including how much you would make working in either situation. Homeschooling really doesn't have to be expensive, especially in the early years, from what I'm told. ;) Work to pay off some bills, if you can. Hopefully, that will take some of the pressure off for him.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

The good thing is that he does already see the difference of what they are learning at home and what they are "learning" at school. :hurray: He sees how proud the kids are when they memorize a poem and how they are soaking up the SOTW stories. I think I just need to keep showing him this stuff and figure out a way to make some extra money, and he may just come around.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I was thinking that if I homeschooled full time, year round, I would probably only do it formally 3 days a week, at least for the first few years. That way I would have 2 weekdays to get shopping, cleaning, etc. done. And, it wouldn't interfere with working in the evenings. Somehow, in my mind, I picture a daytime job and afterschooling to be more of a challenge, unless I could find a day job that was only a few days a week. I don't know.

 

 

 

You are talking about really young children. You should be able to homeschool full-time on only a few hours a day. That would leave half the day to get all the other things done. Also, they are at an age where you can teach them how to help you. Kids love spray bottles and can be taught how to clean a bathroom and wipe off countertops (with a stool if needed.) They can be taught how to wash dishes or empty the dishwasher, provided that you have the "put away place" within reach. I had rearranged my kitchen so that my kids could help. Much of this needs to be done with supervision until they get good at it and have the maturity to follow through. Grocery shopping can be a learning experience - language arts, math specifically.

[SheWillFly]

 

Oh, and homeschooling is not a guarantee against bullying. My oldest son has experienced it in the neighborhood and at scouts. Even with his limited contact with bullies and efforts on my part to help create positive social situations, he has not come out unscathed.

 

This hits on what I wanted to add to my post. Yes, we had some bullying issues in school but the biggest hits in terms of bullying came from neighbors and a few boys in a homeschool chess club in which we participated.

I was thinking that if I homeschooled full time, year round, I would probably only do it formally 3 days a week, at least for the first few years. That way I would have 2 weekdays to get shopping, cleaning, etc. done. And, it wouldn't interfere with working in the evenings. Somehow, in my mind, I picture a daytime job and afterschooling to be more of a challenge, unless I could find a day job that was only a few days a week. I don't know.

I see. Just wanted to make sure you had thought about it logistically. :)

[Tree House Academy]

How about a sport for the "stick up for yourself" crap? My older son does TKD and sparring (actual fighting with other kids in a controlled setting). He holds his own quite well...even if he is homeschooled. :)

[mchel210]

Im sorry. I understand. I am going through this again myself.

 

I have one child home and 2 in school. The school situation stinks. It was supposed to be my choice for them to come out(school was conditional last year)....but once I decided...my husband changed his mind. He says they are fine in school...although he doesnt like their current school...he is trying to find a way to pay for the girls to go to private school while I stay home with one. I am so tired of fighting with my girls PS. This year is terrible. I am so done. I already know we cant afford to place my 2 girls in the private school I want them in...so I have no clue what will come out of this. My husband has been trying to get me back to work now for a few months. I am trying to find something at home so at least I can work to pay for the girls. So frustrating. I really understand. You cant do it without full support!

[AuntPol]

Well I don't think homeschooling shelters one from life unless you lock yourself in a box. We deal with bullies in our homeschool groups and have a mean girl situation going on in our neighborhood. There are cliques in homeschool groups. There are weird kids, sporty kids, special needs kids, tomboys, fashionistas, etc.

 

Anyway, hugs and I will pray for you. I had exact same issue. I wanted to homeschool from start and endured many years of banging myself against the wall trying to afterschool and watching my kids get dumber and dumber. Finally at end of my youngest 2nd grade, he agreed to let me homeschool him (aspie, gifted -needs just couldn't be met) but my oldest had to stay in. We pulled her out after 3 quarters when my husband saw the results.

 

Anyway, I had my husband take over all interactions with the school and I prayed. After dealing with the idiocracy and observing the wonderful socialization going on in schools, he changed his mind quickly.

 

Now he's a major advocate for homeschooling.

[justamouse]

I know he's majorly worried about money right now, so that is a big part of it. We've always talked about my going back to work when the kids were in school full time. This was not in our plans at all. I just can't stand the thought that my kids are not learning what they could be learning.

 

 

If they are small, I am betting you can get by with a few workbooks and library loans. You don't have to spend a ton. I have 7 so to me it's become an investment, but I bet you could do it on the fly.

 

What did you do full time? Could you flex time? And AuntPol had a great suggestion-give him all communications with the school. Sometimes they really don't get what's going on.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Well I don't think homeschooling shelters one from life unless you lock yourself in a box. We deal with bullies in our homeschool groups and have a mean girl situation going on in our neighborhood. There are cliques in homeschool groups. There are weird kids, sporty kids, special needs kids, tomboys, fashionistas, etc.

 

 

This is so true. I wish I could get dh to understand this. And, I'm a pretty social person. Even before they went to preschool, I took them to Kindermusik, story time at the library, all kinds of museums, zoos, etc. They've gone to Safety Town, animal day camp, pirate day camp, swimming lessons, soccer, etc. They are certainly getting plenty of socialization and socializing outside of school. I don't understand why this kind of socializing is not considered valid, but being forced to be around the same 20 kids for 6 hours every day is considered valid.

 

I was an office manager/bookkeeper for a my dh's law firm before I had the kids. Before that, I did bilingual French/English customer service for a vacuum cleaner company that had lots of distributors in Quebec. I tutored kids in French, but the pay was not worth the time it took. I have an M.A. in French, so I could teach French as an instructor at a college, and I have applied to a couple of positions, but did not get hired. Too many applicants for too few posts. I keep looking for bookkeeping jobs, but there don't seem to be any in my area at the moment. I tried signing up with Accountemps, and they sent me on a couple of interviews, but they were weird jobs, pretty far from my home. I'm willing to do anything. Even cleaning offices at night. I did clean a bank at night for a second job when I was younger, and I didn't mind that.

[justamouse]

I was an office manager/bookkeeper for a my dh's law firm before I had the kids. Before that, I did bilingual French/English customer service for a vacuum cleaner company that had lots of distributors in Quebec. I tutored kids in French, but the pay was not worth the time it took. I have an M.A. in French, so I could teach French as an instructor at a college, and I have applied to a couple of positions, but did not get hired. Too many applicants for too few posts. I keep looking for bookkeeping jobs, but there don't seem to be any in my area at the moment. I tried signing up with Accountemps, and they sent me on a couple of interviews, but they were weird jobs, pretty far from my home. I'm willing to do anything. Even cleaning offices at night. I did clean a bank at night for a second job when I was younger, and I didn't mind that.

 

I know an interpreter who works from home--she gets calls. Lemme see what I can find out.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Cool. Thanks.

[AuntPol]

Forgot to add - do you know any homeschooling families? We had homeschooling friends via church/scouts. While my DH is agnostic, he still helped with Scouts and got to know some of those families. They were not as weird as he though they would be.

 

I don't your religous beliefs so please forgive me if I overstep my bounds and feel free to ignore all that follows: The issue of homeschooling for me was a struggle. I felt very called by God to homeschool my children. It was loud and clear to me. However, on the other hand, I was called to submit to my husband (and by submissive, I am not a doormat, heck I was a Marine, but in that I show him respect and he has the deciding vote in disagreements). I literally told God that I was confused because I felt that I was called to homeschool and called to submit and the two conflicted. I and my small group prayed for clarity so I could be aligned with His will. It was right after that that our principal decided to side-step me and call my husband about an issue with our son instead of me. The principal and I didn't get along and I guess she felt she could get her way with him as he is the quiet, diplomatic one. After a few times of this, I saw his frustration and stepped back some more. It was barely a month before he was ready to homeschool. It was March and he wanted us to finish our the year and for our 'normal' daughter to stay in.

 

Now we are homeschooling everyone. I am using materials that have a lot of Biblical references, even some Creationist materials openly (whereas at one time this would have been a fight). My husband coached our son's football and baseball teams, is the coach of the homeschool Lego League (which is done in his lunch break once a week), helping out in scouts, and trying to set up a juggling class or club for homeschoolers. He even plays on the church softball team. He has become a wonderful father and husband (not perfect but wonderful). Heck, he has now joined my (very pipe) dream of selling our house and buying an RV and traveling the country homeschooling for a few years!! Everyone he knew (family, coworkers) was against us homeschooling. Everyone of them has nothing but praise for homeschooling now. We've come a long way from the day my husband told me that I was "too stupid" to teach his children (yes, our marriage was bad, really bad).

 

Anyway, our family is completely transformed. I know it's because we are more aligned with God's will for our family (not every family is called to homeschool). I can also see in retrospect where God used my husband's reluctance to prepare us: Converting me (I was an agnostic UU and extremely anti-Christian to point of being almost hostile), taking our marriage to rock bottom (separation, divorce likely) and back up again, taking our finances (house foreclosed, car repo'd, can't pay bills because of late payments total more than bringing in) on the same route (tight budget but caught up, some bills paid off and paying extra to pay off early, paying for extracurriculars/homeschool and kicking in to support his father who is on disability) letting all four us see firsthand what we would be missing not being in public school, gave me more time to research curricula and styles and afterschool (kids really appreciate homeschool which is shorter than school but also no homework/afterschooling), find activities and groups for us, and most importantly, developing patience which is so needed to homeschool.

 

I have and will pray for you.

[Julie in Monterey]

Sounds like you have a long road ahead of you. I hesitate to say this, but...you can't do it without his support. The kids will feed on this and feel his lack of support and it will have ramifications for all of you. After schooling is easy at this age. It gets harder when your 4th grader has 1.5 hours of homework everyday. I would try to find a home school family that might be interested in talking with you and your husband or seek out an older home schooled child that might be willing to talk to you and your husband about his or her experience. Often it takes someone who doesn't have an personal investment in your choice to way in. Perhaps you could ask his specific concerns on these boards and encourage others to share their experience with you/him. You could print these and offer them as viewpoints????

[AuntPol]

He thinks that the kids need to learn to be tough and stick up for themselves, and the only way that will truly happen is if they are left to fend for themselves in a school setting.

 

There are bullies and cliques in the homeschool world too. Kids don't learn skills by fending for themselves (nor by parent rushing in to save them) but by being taught how to work with each situation while still being carefully monitored.

 

As far as his concerns about the kids not having a core group of friends,

 

I do think there is a difference between kids you see once a week in a structured setting and kids you see daily in both structured and unstructed settings. When my kids were in school, they didn't really make friends via Scouts, Sports, etc.

 

IN homeschooling, they still don't make real friends with the isolated groups. They may connect for the event and get along well together at thse types of things but there is no real long term friendships going on. HOWEVER, what benefits us is having a core group that we interact with on a regular basis. We are in a homeschool support group that meets our church -about half go to our church. So we see them Sunday, Wednesdays, and Fridays- plus many are in the Scouts that meet our Church on Mondays, and extra clubs on Thursdays. We see one family every single day of the week! There are many friends we see 5 days a week. By having interconnecting activities, we are able to have a "core group" of friends.

 

 

In the latter case, he says they would be outsiders and ostracized.

 

He's contradicting himself about surviving by being thrown to the wolves. LOL

 

In the former case, he says all these extra activities along with having to purchase curricula would be a lot of extra money we just can't afford, which leads me to our next item of discussion.

Yes, sometimes these things are expensive and even the inexpensive ones add up. Sports though don't usually happen in schools until middle school though.

 

He categorically refused, saying that would mean he would need to be home every evening, and he needs a couple of nights a week to "let off steam".

 

Unfortunately, this is a maturity issue and not much you can do to make him more mature or less selfish. Thousands of husbands surivive without letting off steam once a week.

 

 

Another of his arguments is that thousands of people graduate from public schools and go on to become doctors, lawyers, engineers, financial anylists, etc., etc., etc.

 

Not all public schools are equal. Doctors, lawyers, etc tend to go to private schools or public schools that cater to children of doctors, lawyers, etc.

 

He thinks that if we (meaning me, of course) continue with the afterschooling, that, along with the public education, will be enough.

 

Unfortunately, afterschooling becomes near impossible from 4th grade on.

 

I think that our kids are extremely bright little people, whose minds are going to slowly atrophy, because there is no way that I can work a part-time job, do all the cleaning, grocery shopping, cooking, AND afterschooling.

 

This will be a problem -you would still need to do all that and homeschool which is more time consuming than afterschoolin.

 

It's not going to work. Dh helps very little around the house, even though he thinks he helps a lot.

 

He's not likely to help out any more when you homeschool either and there will be more cleaning and cooking to do.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Thanks for all the input, everyone. I'm just going to keep afterschooling, and I think I will take the suggestion of letting dh deal with situations at school. He may then see for himself that ps is not the best option for these boys.

 

I may have given the wrong impression of dh with his "letting off steam" comment. He is a lawyer who deals with severely injured people day in and day out. These are people who have had hands cut off in machinery, or legs crushed by fallen pallets and such. His clients are vulnerable and desperate, and take out some of their desperation on dh. He works long hours, and is often talking to people on the phone from home. He is a compassionate and caring person, and even though he maintains a professional demeanor, some of these cases really get to him. I don't begrudge him his down time at all. He really needs to decompress so that he can be a happier hubby and dad.

 

And, he's going to be 51 soon, so I think his maturity level has reached its peak! ;) And the helping around the house thing, he really has improved over the years that we've been married, but he never had to do any chores or help in any way around the house when he was growing up. Then when he was a bachelor for many years, he lived in a condo, had a cleaning lady, and ate meals out most of the time. He really has no concept of what it takes to run a household. Compared to how little he used to do when we got married, he does a whole lot now. He has even miraculously mowed the lawn 4 times this summer! Most of the time, I'd prefer him not to help, because he, of course, doesn't do it my way, but I let him do things, and then if I can't stand it, I redo it (mostly laundry and bathroom cleaning).

[AuntPol]

I didn't mean to put him down as I understand decompress time. Most of the clients that I and my husband deal with are complete self-absorbed idiots that make my blood pressure rise. My husband gets 30 minutes after work to just play video games or read and that helps him move from frustrated boss mode to happy husband and dad mode (men and their boxes lol). I don't discuss anything with him until after his 30 minutes. He plays softball for the church twice a week too but that is family friendly and if his games conflict with our son's game, he drops his game. We have a date night once a month.

 

Oh and housecleaning -it's not meant to put your husband down personally but men tend to come into marriage set in their ways. Some may improve on their own but they are not suddenly going to help out more when homeschooling starts. Husbands not helping out around the house tends to be the most common complaint among my married friends (homeschooling or not).