if you are against the tea-party protests...

[Sara R]

If they were sincere, a year or two ago. If they have an irrational fear of Obama, I would have expected them to start making noise around last December or so.

 

Which is exactly what happened.

 

The question is not what they did for Bush; it's what they would have done if McCain was elected. I think there still would be protests now if McCain were elected. His plan was to go a little more slowly than Obama, so maybe the protests would have started a few months later. I think the protests would still be going on. The problems in government are a lot deeper than just one president.

[Julie in Austin]

I think William F. Buckley must be spinning in his grave, as the lunatic fringe of John Birchers, Joe McCarthyists, white supremacists and other paranoid right-wing conspiracy theorists that once controlled the Conservative movement, but were marginalized (partially through his efforts) are now back in command of American conservatism in different guises.

 

At a time when our Republic is in crisis we could use responsible voices from the Conservative wing to step forward to help solve our nation's problems. Instead we have an abdication on the right. And a collapse of reasoned Conservatism.

 

In its stead we have angry (and sometimes armed) fringe elements making fools of themselves. Its a very sad state of affairs.

 

We have a right to protest in this country. No question. But we also have a duty to be responsible citizens, and the antics of the far-right are unseemly and unhelpful.

 

Where are the "thoughtful Conservatives"? Why are they dead quiet?

 

I wish Bill Buckley were still around. Because the Ron Paulistas and others on the gun-toting fascist right are a treat to our American way of life. And he had the intellectual authority to say so.

 

Bill

 

:iagree:

 

I'm all over the map politically--sometimes progressive and sometimes libertarian--on various issues, but I agree with every word of this.

 

 

I think the answer might be that the reasonable conservatives have realized that this is a liberal moment in our nation's history and there is no point in fighting it. I'm hoping that in eight years people like Huntsman (who had the sense to go to China!) will come out of the woodwork ready for what will be a necessary conservative correction by that point.

[Plucky]

:iagree:

 

I'm all over the map politically--sometimes progressive and sometimes libertarian--on various issues, but I agree with every word of this.

 

 

I think the answer might be that the reasonable conservatives have realized that this is a liberal moment in our nation's history and there is no point in fighting it. I'm hoping that in eight years people like Huntsman (who had the sense to go to China!) will come out of the woodwork ready for what will be a necessary conservative correction by that point.

 

I don't think we'll have to wait 8 years. :D

[Plucky]

I know tons of thoughtful Republicans. Many of the Republicans I personally know (and speak to about politics) hold ideas very similar to my own. We just have different ideas on how to fix the ills of our society.

 

However, the Republicans I personally know who attended tea parties back in March lost all credibility with me when they did that. It was clearly born of partisanship and fear. Maybe if the tea parties had started later I would have felt differently. But they didn't and I don't.

 

The thing is that Liberals credibility has been shot for a long time with some of us. It really doesn't matter what you think. Your opinion doesn't make it fact. Reasonable, rational people are out protesting. Just because people like you and the other liberal posters don't like it does not discredit it. It doesn't. There are plenty of people that aren't going to protests that get it and appreciate these people sticking out their necks. Don't think for a second that this doesn't represent a great amount of Americans. It does.

[Dirtroad]

I think William F. Buckley must be spinning in his grave, as the lunatic fringe of John Birchers, Joe McCarthyists, white supremacists and other paranoid right-wing conspiracy theorists that once controlled the Conservative movement, but were marginalized (partially through his efforts) are now back in command of American conservatism in different guises.

 

Can you please name anyone who fits these organizations who is speaking up and organizing all these rallies? Can you name any on in these societies or categories who is leading anything in congress? Robert Byrd was a KKK leader... but he is a Democrat & not active anymore with KKK.

 

FAct is most of these tea parties started on a small local level & have FEW big national personalities leading the charge. Some comment on it & participate... but they are followers and not leaders. The DC thing grew in much the same manner. NO printed signs handed out to employees, union members, homeless & non-English speaking day laboreres have been needed. This has been business owners, grandparents, stay at home Moms, homeschoolers, teachers, ... on & on. No one leader can take any credit. IT is the real thing - people have had enough abuse and are speaking out. Some with drama, some with clear signs, adn some are tacky.... but it is freedom of speech (whether against King George, FDR or BHO).

 

Sadly, most republicans in office now are not even conservative. Honestly, as a conservative/anti-collectivist.... I can name the number of truly conservative & Constitution recognizing leaders on 1 hand. The rest of them are populist, liberals, or aristocratic types.... and most are MUTE these days b/c their head is in the chopping block with the rest of the greedy, public-ignoring crowd in office.

 

As for liberals recognizing a "thoughtful conservative".... it is usually not a conservative but someone who agrees with the speaking liberal.... or someone who has the name republican but VOTES with democrats. Liberals love John McCain until he ran for president.

 

Michael Steele & GWB should have thrilled libs... they are NOT really conservatives.;)

Edited September 16, 2009 by Dirtroad

[astrid]

Well that explains a lot.

 

:confused:

 

Well, I love you, Audrey!

 

astrid (not a Communist, but really unsure of how to interpret this post)

[Imprimis]

I am not against protests. I am not against the tea parties (although I also think it was a poor choice for a name to spearhead a movement). I think there are a lot of people with legitimate concerns in this movement. I do think that it is hard to hear those concerns over the 'fringe'. What I find especially concerning is that the conservative media has not spoken against these fringe elements. The furor over the speech to school children is a good example of this (and no, I'm not trying to restart any arguments).

 

The liberal media and politicians have done similar things int he past, though I don't remember seeing this level of anger and hatred toward the President in the past.

 

I agree with this. I'm also concerned by the heightened fear and hysteria I see and hear from some of my friends and family members. For example, one of my relatives was relaying his experience at a local gun show recently; he described an "unprecedented" crowd scrambling to by guns and ammo to be prepared for "fighting in the streets," and a "possible civil war. "

 

Peaceful, civil protests? I see absolutely nothing wrong or "un-American" about that. What worries me is that a fair amount of the discourse I hear lately is hate-filled and divisive.

[Plucky]

I agree with this. I'm also concerned by the heightened fear and hysteria I see and hear from some of my friends and family members. For example, one of my relatives was relaying his experience at a local gun show recently; he described an "unprecedented" crowd scrambling to by guns and ammo to be prepared for "fighting in the streets," and a "possible civil war. "

 

Peaceful, civil protests? I see absolutely nothing wrong or "un-American" about that. What worries me is that a fair amount of the discourse I hear lately is hate-filled and divisive.

 

No. The last 8 years of Bush's term was full of protests that were hate-filled and divisive. You just didn't notice.

[Mrs Mungo]

The thing is that Liberals credibility has been shot for a long time with some of us. It really doesn't matter what you think. Your opinion doesn't make it fact. Reasonable, rational people are out protesting. Just because people like you and the other liberal posters don't like it does not discredit it. It doesn't. There are plenty of people that aren't going to protests that get it and appreciate these people sticking out their necks. Don't think for a second that this doesn't represent a great amount of Americans. It does.

 

I'm not a liberal. I'm a *moderate Democrat*, very few of the other posters are liberals, *either*.

 

I think the fact that what was once considered the fringe now represents a "great amount of Americans" is exactly what Spycar was talking about and is what moderates find scary about it.

[Mrs Mungo]

Liberals love John McCain until he ran for president.

 

The John McCain who was a moderate didn't show up for the election. It was unfortunate.

[Vida Winter]

I think William F. Buckley must be spinning in his grave, as the lunatic fringe of John Birchers, Joe McCarthyists, white supremacists and other paranoid right-wing conspiracy theorists that once controlled the Conservative movement, but were marginalized (partially through his efforts) are now back in command of American conservatism in different guises.

 

At a time when our Republic is in crisis we could use responsible voices from the Conservative wing to step forward to help solve our nation's problems. Instead we have an abdication on the right. And a collapse of reasoned Conservatism.

 

In its stead we have angry (and sometimes armed) fringe elements making fools of themselves. Its a very sad state of affairs.

 

We have a right to protest in this country. No question. But we also have a duty to be responsible citizens, and the antics of the far-right are unseemly and unhelpful.

 

Where are the "thoughtful Conservatives"? Why are they dead quiet?

 

I wish Bill Buckley were still around. Because the Ron Paulistas and others on the gun-toting fascist right are a treat to our American way of life. And he had the intellectual authority to say so.

 

Bill

 

The "thoughtful Conservatives" are all around you -- just completely ignored by the mainstream media. I will name a few and I am deliberately leaving out conservative radio personalities like Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck because I know they will drive you around the bend.

 

How about:

 

Charles Krauthammer

Thomas Sowell

Walter E. Williams

Peggy Noonan

Rich Lowry

Victor Davis Hanson

Mark Steyn

Byron York

Jonah Goldberg

 

and how about a liberal for good measure - Camille Paglia

 

Many of these listed happened to be well acquainted with William F. Buckley. I too miss WFB. But to dismiss other conservative viewpoints as racist nut cases is simply ridiculous. I rather think WFB would be proud of the true grassroots movement that is occurring across the country.

[Plucky]

I'm not a liberal. I'm a *moderate Democrat*, very few of the other posters are liberals, *either*.

 

I think the fact that what was once considered the fringe now represents a "great amount of Americans" is exactly what Spycar was talking about and is what moderates find scary about it.

 

Of course you find it scary. You guys feel threatened. People in America have woken up and they are speaking up. It's not just the liberals (or moderate whatever you want to call yourself) that have the right to free speech.

 

Keep in mind that just as many people are proud of these people for standing up. It's not scary at all. I think perhaps the current liberal mindset is blinding people to the truth.

[Plucky]

The "thoughtful Conservatives" are all around you -- just completely ignored by the mainstream media. I will name a few and I am deliberately leaving out conservative radio personalities like Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck because I know they will drive you around the bend.

 

How about:

 

Charles Krauthammer

Thomas Sowell

Walter E. Williams

Peggy Noonan

Rich Lowry

Victor Davis Hanson

Mark Steyn

Byron York

Jonah Goldberg

 

and how about a liberal for good measure - Camille Paglia

 

Many of these listed happened to be well acquainted with William F. Buckley. I too miss WFB. But to dismiss other conservative viewpoints as racist nut cases is simply ridiculous. I rather think WFB would be proud of the true grassroots movement that is occurring across the country.

 

Hey, why didn't the mainstream media or famous investigative journalists get the scoop on ACORN? It seems students had to do it.

 

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/16/jon-stewart-to-media-on-acorn-where-the-hell-were-you/

[PineFarmMom]

The thing is that Liberals credibility has been shot for a long time with some of us. It really doesn't matter what you think. Your opinion doesn't make it fact. Reasonable, rational people are out protesting. Just because people like you and the other liberal posters don't like it does not discredit it. It doesn't. There are plenty of people that aren't going to protests that get it and appreciate these people sticking out their necks. Don't think for a second that this doesn't represent a great amount of Americans. It does.

:iagree::iagree::iagree: Did I say I agree?? :iagree:

[Slartibartfast]

Of course you find it scary. You guys feel threatened. People in America have woken up and they are speaking up. It's not just the liberals (or moderate whatever you want to call yourself) that have the right to free speech.

 

Keep in mind that just as many people are proud of these people for standing up. It's not scary at all. I think perhaps the current liberal mindset is blinding people to the truth.

 

 

I do find it scary when people are holding up signs that say, "I am not carrying a gun...this time"

[Plucky]

I do find it scary when people are holding up signs that say, "I am not carrying a gun...this time"

 

It's just words. Here we have war protesters that attack cops. That is scary!

[Slartibartfast]

It's just words. Here we have war protesters that attack cops. That is scary!

 

So we hear death threats against the President are up 400% and we aren't supposed to be concerned when people are threatening violence?

[elizabeth]

http://www.freedomworks.org/about/board-of-directors No national figures??/Please peruse the board of directors and staff. Dick Armey not a national figure?They are organizing , framing the issues and directing the whole shebang whether the participants know it or not. Also know that although the individuals who attend these gatherings may well not even be aware that huge PACS are driving the bus. You can of course also deny that 9-12 was anything but grass roots but that does not make it so...Why is it bad anyway for people to come together under common causes in an organized fashion with the support and direction of their elected voices in our government?? Because their elected reps lack the spine to do it so they hide behind the PACS and radio tv personalites who are all too happy to do the dirty work. I refer to both parties in this criticism. I would not feel the need to deny that my local Democratic party reps definitely show leadership and organize speakers, lobbyists to deal with the issues of concern to their big donors and other such tasks. I just do not understand why a rogue mentality and the purportedly "grass roots," nature of dissenting voices is a mythology that needs to be in place. I certainly do not march in lockstep with the Democratic leadership and frequently give them *ell in person for their repeated failure to show leadership and their refusal to stand strong against absolute lies and distortions regarding public policy and this administration. The reason that it might seem as if liberal/progressives find that it is hard to believe that the tea parties and health care town hall meetings were" grass roots" is that the participants parroted the same out and out lies and distortions one hears on talk radio, in the talking points printed by the PACS and finally the same Senators parroting the same . It was obvious who had read the darn bill and who just parroted what their face of the week prattled on and on about. If I heard an obviously researched and well read query at the local" town hall " meeting it was rare. It did happen twice and I noted that they self identified as libertarians. No one including Senator Grassley had read the darn bill. There is no way the distortions that keep coming out about the bill could be held by any person capable or willing to read the bill. There is plenty to debate and be concerned about without lying about what the bill says.

[Plucky]

So we hear death threats against the President are up 400% and we aren't supposed to be concerned when people are threatening violence?

 

Who is threatening violence? Tea parties have been the most calm of all protests out there. I wonder how many death threats Bush received. It seems everyone was out to get him and I didn't hear people complaining about that.

 

You know the other day there was a health care protest and it was the pro-health care guy that bit off someone's finger. Who is really violent?

[Plucky]

http://www.freedomworks.org/about/board-of-directors No national figures??/Please peruse the board of directors and staff. Dick Armey not a national figure?They are organizing , framing the issues and directing the whole shebang whether the participants know it or not. Also know that although the individuals who attend these gatherings may well not even be aware that huge PACS are driving the bus. You can of course also deny that 9-12 was anything but grass roots but that does not make it so...Why is it bad anyway for people to come together under common causes in an organized fashion with the support and direction of their elected voices in our government?? Because their elected reps lack the spine to do it so they hide behind the PACS and radio tv personalites who are all too happy to do the dirty work. I refer to both parties in this criticism. I would not feel the need to deny that my local Democratic party reps definitely show leadership and organize speakers, lobbyists to deal with the issues of concern to their big donors and other such tasks. I just do not understand why a rogue mentality and the purportedly "grass roots," nature of dissenting voices is a mythology that needs to be in place. I certainly do not march in lockstep with the Democratic leadership and frequently give them *ell in person for their repeated failure to show leadership and their refusal to stand strong against absolute lies and distortions regarding public policy and this administration. The reason that it might seem as if liberal/progressives find that it is hard to believe that the tea parties and health care town hall meetings were" grass roots" is that the participants parroted the same out and out lies and distortions one hears on talk radio, in the talking points printed by the PACS and finally the same Senators parroting the same . It was obvious who had read the darn bill and who just parroted what their face of the week prattled on and on about. If I heard an obviously researched and well read query at the local" town hall " meeting it was rare. It did happen twice and I noted that they self identified as libertarians. No one including Senator Grassley had read the darn bill. There is no way the distortions that keep coming out about the bill could be held by any person capable or willing to read the bill. There is plenty to debate and be concerned about without lying about what the bill says.

 

Yes, it is grass roots. You can try to discredit it, but people are going to see through this, elizabeth. I know so many are used to ACORN kind of astroturfing. That isn't happening here. It's regular citizens. Stop watching so much MSNBC.

[Elaine]

I'll vouch for Dana, she has common sense and I agree with her. :001_smile:

I'm tired of being lied to by either party and that is why I am proud to be a tea party goer. I love my country and I value the Constitution. The federal government is too big, too loose with our money and Congress, for the most part, is too arrogant with the real people who have the power in this country...us. I think those are some of the reasons people attend the tea parties.

And, just FYI, I do not condone posters making Obama look like Hitler just like I did not condone posters of Bush doing the same. Everything that the Dems are crying foul on they have done themselves. Hypocrisy at its best.

 

I am glad that I read this post because now I can just add this guy :iagree:

[Elaine]

So we hear death threats against the President are up 400% and we aren't supposed to be concerned when people are threatening violence?

 

Were you concerned when this guy was threatening violence? There are always going to be death threats, it's the nature of the beast, unfortunately.

 

I was there on 9/12 and I saw not one single sign that was as vitriolic as these. I challenge you to find anything like that at a Tea Party.

[Peek a Boo]

From FactCheck.org - hardly what I would consider a right-leaning organization - here's their analysis of BO's claims: http://wordpress.asc.upenn.edu/2009/07/obamas-health-care-news-conference/

 

And one specifically of his address to Congress: http://wordpress.asc.upenn.edu/2009/09/obamas-health-care-speech/

 

 

{{this is where most O-supporters stick their fingers in their ears and hum real loud. or decide that the organization is immediately "not reputable".}}

[Slartibartfast]

Who is threatening violence? Tea parties have been the most calm of all protests out there. I wonder how many death threats Bush received. It seems everyone was out to get him and I didn't hear people complaining about that.

 

You know the other day there was a health care protest and it was the pro-health care guy that bit off someone's finger. Who is really violent?

 

Well..they said death threats are *up* 400% so I have to take that to mean Obama gets more. I don't think the Secret Service is particularly partisan.

 

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1917356,00.html

 

What do you think, "Water the tree of Liberty" means? To me it means "the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

[Slartibartfast]

I find it EVEN SCARIER that this current administration wants to curb gun ownership. Scary, indeed.

 

Where did they say that?

[Slartibartfast]

Were you concerned when this guy was threatening violence? There are always going to be death threats, it's the nature of the beast, unfortunately.

 

I was there on 9/12 and I saw not one single sign that was as vitriolic as these. I challenge you to find anything like that at a Tea Party.

 

There are things like that in the video linked earlier in this thread.

 

Whew, that was easy.

[Karenciavo]

Were you concerned when this guy was threatening violence? There are always going to be death threats, it's the nature of the beast, unfortunately.

 

I was there on 9/12 and I saw not one single sign that was as vitriolic as these. I challenge you to find anything like that at a Tea Party.

 

How about when the Nobel Peace prize winner from 1976 Betty Williams said in 2006:

Campaigning on the rights of young people at the Earth Dialogues forum, being held in Brisbane, Ms Williams spoke passionately about the deaths of innocent children during wartime, particularly in the Middle East, and lambasted Mr Bush.

"I have a very hard time with this word ‘non-violence’, because I don’t believe that I am non-violent," said Ms Williams, 64.

"Right now, I would love to kill George Bush." Her young audience at the Brisbane City Hall clapped and cheered.

"I don’t know how I ever got a Nobel Peace Prize, because when I see children die the anger in me is just beyond belief. It’s our duty as human beings, whatever age we are, to become the protectors of human life."

 

 

Lovely. :hat:

[PineFarmMom]

Were you concerned when this guy was threatening violence? There are always going to be death threats, it's the nature of the beast, unfortunately.

 

I was there on 9/12 and I saw not one single sign that was as vitriolic as these. I challenge you to find anything like that at a Tea Party.

 

Stop your right-wing rabble-rousing!!! Those pics were just a bunch of girl scouts at a cookie sale! How dare you!! What would cause you to doctor up photos like that? :lol::lol:

[KingM]

Of course you find it scary. You guys feel threatened. People in America have woken up and they are speaking up. It's not just the liberals (or moderate whatever you want to call yourself) that have the right to free speech.

 

 

I don't find it particularly scary. It's a lot less scary, at least, than when these people had political power.

 

Personally, I'm pretty cynical about Obama. He's just another politician, not the prophet who will lead us to the promised land, like some people on the left would have us believe.

 

But neither is he a communist, or a closet Muslim, or the anti-Christ that a lot of his opponents would have you believe.

[Slartibartfast]

Just google Obama's voting record on the issue. It's public record.

 

I believe Obama stated he wasn't going to curb gun ownership so do you have a citation for that?

[Laurie4b]

Yes, but when the left was doing it, it was un-american, when the right does it, it's patriotic.

 

If, during the Bush administration, people were holding these tea parties against the Iraq war or any of Bush's policies, how do you think they would be portrayed on Fox News or on Hannity or Rush's show?

 

Do you remember how unfair they were to people who disagreed with them?

 

Actually, when the left does it and the right is in power, the left considers it patriotic and the right considers it un-American. When the right does it when the left is in power, the left considers it "mobs" etc. and the right considers it patriotic.

 

Color me cynical.

[elizabeth]

Yes, it is grass roots. You can try to discredit it, but people are going to see through this, elizabeth. I know so many are used to ACORN kind of astroturfing. That isn't happening here. It's regular citizens. Stop watching so much MSNBC.

 

http://www.freedomworks.org/ A bit more on this" grassroots "movement . How does leadership from legitimately , duly elected leaders discredit the feelings and thoughts of the participants? The question is interesting to me. What is the big deal??I am an ardent supporter of healthcare reform specifically concerned with mental health parity and I am very pleased as I said before to have the opportunity to work with those who have experience in getting these things accomplished. I have worked on this issue for 10+ years and have learned so much as a lawyer and as an advocate for the underrepresented. FWIW I read the news from a variety of sources as being patronized and condescended to by anyone even if I agree with their POV is not my cup of tea at all. I do not need events or any law including the US Constitution interpreted for me by... a newscaster . I am fairly confident that my ongoing legal education mandated by my state bar association is sufficient to read the carp put out by the US govt. BTW, ask the Move On lady I had removed from the polling place I was captain of if I was cool with her astroturfing and violating federal election law in my precinct. Her rogue fanny sat in jail for a couple days. Do not assume that simply because you disagree with another person that they lack integrity or common decency such that hurling offensive monikers in their general diection seems like an appropriate thing to do.

[Slartibartfast]

I don't find it particularly scary. It's a lot less scary, at least, than when these people had political power.

 

Personally, I'm pretty cynical about Obama. He's just another politician, not the prophet who will lead us to the promised land, like some people on the left would have us believe.

 

But neither is he a communist, or a closet Muslim, or the anti-Christ that a lot of his opponents would have you believe.

 

 

I am pretty cynical as well. I mean...I will believe it when I see YKWIM?

[Slartibartfast]

Again, just google the voting record.

 

And frankly, I believe his claim to not curb gun ownership as much as I believe any one of his other claims, and that ain't by much.

 

And that's all I'm going to say about it. I'm not going to morph this thread into a gun ownership thread. If you are interested in the topic, you can do the google-legwork yourself.

 

Well, I am not actually anti-gun. I am pro-gun.

 

I am not researching to back up someone else's point I don't actually believe to be correct. :)

Edited September 17, 2009 by Sis
Typo :(

[Peek a Boo]

I believe Obama stated he wasn't going to curb gun ownership so do you have a citation for that?

 

where did he say he wouldn't "curb" gun ownership?

His voting record reflects that he absolutely does support "reasonable" bans. What's your definition of "curb"? Is this another "depends on what your definition of IS is?" kinda thing?

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/aug/29/obamas-gun-ban-rhetoric/

 

If he says that he won't curb gun ownership, then supports a gun BAN, then HE LIED.

again.

[Slartibartfast]

where did he say he wouldn't "curb" gun ownership?

His voting record reflects that he absolutely does support "reasonable" bans. What's your definition of "curb"? Is this another "depends on what your definition of IS is?" kinda thing?

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/aug/29/obamas-gun-ban-rhetoric/

 

If he says that he won't curb gun ownership, then supports a gun BAN, then HE LIED.

again.

 

That appears to be an opinion piece from last year.

[Plucky]

I don't find it particularly scary. It's a lot less scary, at least, than when these people had political power.

 

 

 

So you don't really have an open mind about this then?

[Plucky]

http://www.freedomworks.org/ A bit more on this" grassroots "movement . How does leadership from legitimately , duly elected leaders discredit the feelings and thoughts of the participants? The question is interesting to me. What is the big deal??I am an ardent supporter of healthcare reform specifically concerned with mental health parity and I am very pleased as I said before to have the opportunity to work with those who have experience in getting these things accomplished. I have worked on this issue for 10+ years and have learned so much as a lawyer and as an advocate for the underrepresented. FWIW I read the news from a variety of sources as being patronized and condescended to by anyone even if I agree with their POV is not my cup of tea at all. I do not need events or any law including the US Constitution interpreted for me by... a newscaster . I am fairly confident that my ongoing legal education mandated by my state bar association is sufficient to read the carp put out by the US govt. BTW, ask the Move On lady I had removed from the polling place I was captain of if I was cool with her astroturfing and violating federal election law in my precinct. Her rogue fanny sat in jail for a couple days. Do not assume that simply because you disagree with another person that they lack integrity or common decency such that hurling offensive monikers in their general diection seems like an appropriate thing to do.

 

I know people that go to these protests. They are average, everyday people. I find it offensive that anyone would lie about them.

[Slartibartfast]

{{this is where most O-supporters stick their fingers in their ears and hum real loud. or decide that the organization is immediately "not reputable".}}

 

Well, the Annenberg foundation is reputable IMO

 

But that is the organization where Obama sat on a board with William Ayres...so are you saying it is reputable? :)

Edited September 17, 2009 by Sis

[KingM]

So you don't really have an open mind about this then?

 

I'm not sure what you mean. Open minded about what? The protests? I do think it's a lot about Obama and not about these particular issues. They're not happy that their guy lost and so they see conspiracies every where they look.

 

That's not to say that there aren't some legitimate reasons to be concerned in this country. I abhor the deficit spending that has grown ever more out of control with each passing administration, for example.

[Peek a Boo]

Well, the Annenberg foundation is reputable IMO

 

But that are the organization where Obama sat on a board with William Ayres...so are you saying it *is* reputable?

 

so what does the Annenberg foundation say about Obama's voting record?

 

please show me where obama did not support a gun ban.

His official voting record shows otherwise.

 

eta: and I'm noticing that you didn't address the facts as related in the link ;)

 

edited again:

yeah, just like we hear "follow the funding" on studies by big oil, of course we hear "follow the funding" on political issues.

Edited September 17, 2009 by Peek a Boo

[Slartibartfast]

so what does the Annenberg foundation say about Obama's voting record?

 

please show me where obama did not support a gun ban.

His official voting record shows otherwise.

 

eta: and I'm noticing that you didn't address the facts as related in the link ;)

 

The point as related to the link? They disagreed with some of his assertions about the Health Care bill. I also disagreed with some of his assertions. I liked some, wasn't sure about others.

 

I think you are under the impression I worship Obama. This is not so. I voted for Obama because of Palin and the way McCain acted during the campaign. I was *going* to vote for McCain. His vote was mine to lose.

 

I just am not aware of anything the current admin is *doing* in regard to curbing gun ownership. Please recall, I am pro-second amendment.

Edited September 17, 2009 by Sis

[Peek a Boo]

I just am not aware of anything the current admin is *doing* in regard to curbing gun ownership. Please recall, I am pro-second amendment.

 

Kinsa's statement was about what the administration WANTS to do, not what they are actually succeeding at:

 

Originally Posted by Kinsa View Post

I find it EVEN SCARIER that this current administration wants to curb gun ownership. Scary, indeed.

 

you asked where he said that: he has said numerous times that he supports gun bans. His voting record reflects that. That is a fact. That IS "curbing" gunownership.

[Peek a Boo]

I think you are under the impression I worship Obama. This is not so. I voted for Obama because of Palin and the way McCain acted during the campaign. I was *going* to vote for McCain. His vote was mine to lose.

 

I don't care who or what you worship: i'm just looking for someone that can read a voting record.

[Renee in NC]

Personally, I'm pretty cynical about Obama. He's just another politician, not the prophet who will lead us to the promised land, like some people on the left would have us believe.

 

But neither is he a communist, or a closet Muslim, or the anti-Christ that a lot of his opponents would have you believe.

 

:iagree:

 

I think he truly wants the best for this country, even if I don't agree with how he is doing it.

[Plucky]

I'm not sure what you mean. Open minded about what? The protests? I do think it's a lot about Obama and not about these particular issues. They're not happy that their guy lost and so they see conspiracies every where they look.

 

That's not to say that there aren't some legitimate reasons to be concerned in this country. I abhor the deficit spending that has grown ever more out of control with each passing administration, for example.

 

It's really not all about Obama. It's about the crazy spending going on. It's not stopping. We are entering into crazy times. People are speaking up because their elected officials are not listening.

[CLHCO]

Yes, it is grass roots. You can try to discredit it, but people are going to see through this, elizabeth. I know so many are used to ACORN kind of astroturfing. That isn't happening here. It's regular citizens. Stop watching so much MSNBC.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Of course it's grass roots. I know because we were in on the first wave to hit before it really caught on. Local people around here got an idea and booked the capital steps but had to take the back steps because of short notice. My husband and daughters stood around with a bunch of other conservatives saying, "Um, what do we do? We should have taken protest lessons from a liberal because we're no good at this." Even Glenn Beck, now a big supporter, had originally not been in favor of them until people called and complained to him for saying we should do something then not helping us when we do. That's when he agreed and jumped on it with us.

 

Since then we've found our voice and watched a few liberal protest tapes to see how it's done. ;) There are groups now probably trying to use it for their own purposes, but it doesn't change the authenticity.

[Plucky]

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Of course it's grass roots. I know because we were in on the first wave to hit before it really caught on. Local people around here got an idea and booked the capital steps but had to take the back steps because of short notice. My husband and daughters stood around with a bunch of other conservatives saying, "Um, what do we do? We should have taken protest lessons from a liberal because we're no good at this." Even Glenn Beck, now a big supporter, had originally not been in favor of them until people called and complained to him for saying we should do something then not helping us when we do. That's when he agreed and jumped on it with us.

 

Since then we've found our voice and watched a few liberal protest tapes to see how it's done. ;) There are groups now probably trying to use it for their own purposes, but it doesn't change the authenticity.

 

And thank you for taking time out of your lives to do this! :grouphug:

[Slartibartfast]

Kinsa's statement was about what the administration WANTS to do, not what they are actually succeeding at:

 

Originally Posted by Kinsa View Post

I find it EVEN SCARIER that this current administration wants to curb gun ownership. Scary, indeed.

 

you asked where he said that: he has said numerous times that he supports gun bans. His voting record reflects that. That is a fact. That IS "curbing" gunownership.

 

I don't care who or what you worship: i'm just looking for someone that can read a voting record.

 

I haven't seen any current plans or desires on gun control legislation so I was curious.

 

I know what his record says.

[Peek a Boo]

 

I know what his record says.

 

you do?

 

are you saying that Kinsa was right and Obama DOES want to curb gun ownership and supports gun bans?