WWYD--Co-op student book dilemma

[Harriet Vane]

Hi folks,

 

I am teaching a high school level co-op class on Medieval Literature for a co-op that also offers Latin. It's a more academic focus rather than enrichment.

 

I sent the first semester book list in late July. I did ask that folks make a good attempt to get the specific versions I recommend. Because this is medieval literature, and because most of my students are young (8th-9th grade) I think it best for them to read the easiest, most user-friendly translations possible. (Two of my students are 11th and 12 graders.) All of the books I recommended are/were available used on Amazon.com.

 

In late August a couple families approached me to chat about the book list. One of the moms had known all summer that her son would definitely be in the class, had been in a meeting in May to discuss it, and had my email from July. This was late August, and as we chatted this mom told me she had not yet started getting the books but would be looking to her local library. She wanted to know if I had been able to find the books at the library. Frankly, I never attempted the library--I just bought the books.

 

At some point after that this mom emailed me that she was having difficulty getting the books at the library and was having to do inter-library loans.

 

At some point after that this mom emailed me saying that she could not get Bede's Ecclesiastical History of the English People anywhere and would try to order it.

 

At some point after that this mom sent me an elaborate email explaining some frustrations with ordering the book--the company from which she ordered screwed up more than once. However, she ordered the book rather late in the game and would have had difficulty having it on time even if everything had gone well.

 

I responded offering sympathy for her frustrations, and saying it seemed her only two options were to try to get the book through the library or to try to get the company from which she ordered the book to send it more quickly. She emailed back saying that the library does not have the version I recommended but does have other versions of it.

 

I am a little frustrated, and I sense that she is too. I do not think it's my responsibility to worry about her son's book, especially since I sent the book list in late July. (Our first meeting is scheduled for mid-September.) I cannot lend her my book because my dd needs to do the assigned reading. While I do not know her son well, I have the general impression that he is not the biggest reader, and therefore would probably need an easy translation.

 

Do I suggest she get some other version from the library? This is probably what I would have done in her shoes. However, being the literature geek that I am, helping my kid read through a more difficult translation is not something I find intimidating. On the other hand, Bede's Ecclesiastical History is not terribly difficult reading in general--it's a fairly straightforward text. The only real confusion with the text is trying to keep all the crazy Celtic names and places straight.

 

Do I just let him off the hook for this assignment? It bothers me to death to do so. This is a high school level course. In the real world he would have to come up with a book and do the assignments somehow. Am I being too hard-hearted?

 

This is my first time teaching in this co-op. I don't know whether to hold a hard line or not.

 

Thanks for offering your wisdom.

[QueenCat]

I would be gently honest with her. Tell her you selected the version for a reason, and that you gave ample time to collect the resources. Further, explain that although he may bring a different version, it will be her responsibility to help him figure out page numbers and any other differences in the books. Also help her to understand that it is good to own books so that you can underline and take notes right in the book on key points.

[QueenCat]

One more thing... I say the above because I taught a lit. class and had one student bring a different version. It was very difficult, and caused us to lose class time as I had to keep helping the student figure out where we were. And she lost on vocabulary and content for having a simpler, condensed version.

[Dayle in Guatemala]

I would be gently honest with her. Tell her you selected the version for a reason, and that you gave ample time to collect the resources. Further, explain that although he may bring a different version, it will be her responsibility to help him figure out page numbers and any other differences in the books. Also help her to understand that it is good to own books so that you can underline and take notes right in the book on key points.

 

:iagree: She is making this your problem, and it's not. It's hers. You did your job as the teacher of the class that she signed her child up for voluntarily. You are doing her a favor by teaching the class. She needs to figure out how to live up to her side of the deal and get the appropriate books.

[Stacie]

:iagree: She is making this your problem, and it's not. It's hers. You did your job as the teacher of the class that she signed her child up for voluntarily. You are doing her a favor by teaching the class. She needs to figure out how to live up to her side of the deal and get the appropriate books.

 

:iagree: You provided her with time and opportunity to get the materials needed for her son to complete the class. I also feel that a high schooler should be able to assume some responsibility to, at least, make sure his parent gathers the necessary items for class. If the students have separate email addresses I'd consider sending info to them and their parents.

 

I have experienced similar situations with co-op classes I've taught. I have had many frustrating moments with co-op parents who want their kids taught, but are unwilling to put in the time it needs to either get the necessary materials or do the necessary outside work to make the class a full success. With kids the ages you are teaching, I suggest giving them as much ownership over their success as you can.

[ConnieB]

Is the book that she ordered the correct version? If so, you might consider copying the first chapter from your daughter's book for her son to use until his copy arrives. We have had this happen for our co-op classes before and according to one of the teachers' copyright attorney DH so long as each student has PAID FOR a copy of the book it's alright to use a copy for a SHORT DURATION until the paid copies arrive. At that time you are to collect the copies made and destroy them. Because it's already been paid for it's not violating that author's right to revenue from the book, so long as the copies are destroyed when the paid book arrives.

 

As for not getting the right version, I'd be very honest and say that is not acceptable. Period. Losing class time because one family didn't follow directions is not fair to the other students who did, and who deserve a full class time of teaching. Had this been something that wasn't easily obtainable, out of print or something, that might be different, but Amazon can deliver almost all their products in 2 days for an additional fee.

 

I'd also heavily discourage the use of a library copy, unless the book will only be needed for a couple weeks. Interlibrary loans often can't be renewed, and of course library books can only be renewed so many times, and what if another parent in the class (or just another patron) requests the book, it would have to be returned or incur fines. If your class is something that will be offered again in the future, you could remind the parents that if the book is kept in good condition they may be able to resell it to next year's co-op, if cost is that important of a factor.

 

 

After experiencing these types of problems for many classes, our co-op last year started doing a "group buy" where you pay the teacher when you pay for the class and she will order the books. That actually accomplishes several things....first and foremost the correct book gets ordered in sufficient time to receive it for the first class since the teacher does the ordering......but often if you're ordering multiple copies of the same book many publishers will give you a discount (we go directly to the publisher to request this first since they're the most generous with the discounts, then if they don't offer one we'll try places like Rainbow and Amazon who often will). Even if you can't get a discount on the book itself, group ordering often reduces the cost of shipping either to free or certainly less than ordering it individually.

 

Obviously, those signing up late will have to get the books themselves, but our co-ops usually fill up and don't often have late signups anymore. In the rare case where there was a late signup, copies of the first chapter are made while the student orders the book themselves, then the copy is destroyed when the book arrives.

[Ruby]

regarding the topic of the student bringing a different version of the book to class; Would you expect a high school student in the public school to be allowed to bring in some different version of the textbook and then keep up with everyone else?

 

It sounds like money may have been an issue for her and if she is anything like me unfortunately procrastinated when it came to checking out the library earlier in the summer. The parent dropped the ball here. Not you. If she can get the book from a normal retailer, not necessarily and independent amazon seller, have her pay the extra for the shipping. I would send out an email letting everyone know that the correct books and editions need to be in the child's hands on the first day of class. If she has ordered it and its the correct book then make the copies. Especially if this is a coop. You are doing a service for other people and I know what goes into teaching a class. You need to be in control of how the class time will flow and it is not okay for the other kids to miss out because you have to keep stoppin for one student.

[amy g.]

My oldest is taking a similar class. I think that kids' not having the right books is a common problem. This year the teacher offered to buy everything over the summer for students who paid in advance. That was really helpful for us.

 

My daughter said that the kids who did not have the right books the first week of class never caught up, last year. I don't know if they were penalized grade wise, but they sure got less out of the class.

[Orthodox6]

Would you consider allowing the student to use one of the free, online texts of Bede's?

 

(I understand how irksome this must be for you !)

[lori in tx]

She had the list early enough I agree it is her problem, I teach a literature class and kids who don't have the books and therefore can't do the homework get homework notices from me. I have only had one kid I had to do this with, for the sheer reason of not having the book, his mom pitched a fit and went to the board and the board told her to get over it. The stupid thing out of my situation was it was a common book found at most bookstores, libraries and even half price books.

 

I would see if there was a "higher" up in your co-op to handle or explain why it is her problem, then it looks like an impartial telling her it is her problem

hth

lori

[Harriet Vane]

Thanks, everyone, for your validation.

 

Fortunately this has been resolved somewhat painlessly. I called the mom who is one of the original two founders of the co-op to nail down logistics for class. I asked very casually what the policy has been when someone has had some difficulty getting the necessary resources for the class. As it turns out, this mom had had an ordering glitch herself and ended up with TWO copies. Problem solved.

 

I also did talk to this mom again this morning and gently reiterated why the kids will find it helpful to work with the easier translations, and to work from the same text.

[Mom2GirlsTX]

Thanks, everyone, for your validation.

 

Fortunately this has been resolved somewhat painlessly. I called the mom who is one of the original two founders of the co-op to nail down logistics for class. I asked very casually what the policy has been when someone has had some difficulty getting the necessary resources for the class. As it turns out, this mom had had an ordering glitch herself and ended up with TWO copies. Problem solved.

 

I also did talk to this mom again this morning and gently reiterated why the kids will find it helpful to work with the easier translations, and to work from the same text.

 

Good for you! I'm glad it worked out.

[Miss Marple]

Totally agree. I'm in the same boat with a physics student who showed up on the first day of class saying he didn't know what book he needed. Only I had multiple conversations and e-mails with mom - which she has forgotten and doesn't remember getting. It's isn't your problem - it's her problem. I told them that there was adequate time for him to have the materials. If he doesn't have them this week and hasn't caught up with all assignments, he is out of the class. And, this isn't the first time we've had issues with this family. You may continue having issues with her if you don't stick to your policy.

[Carol in Cal.]

from other families, I have an internal policy of being cheerfully demanding.

 

I publish everything well in advance. I don't send out reminders. The children have to do the work. I listen cheerfully if people complain, but I don't change much. I welcome the children and treat them well, and I expect them to do their work and that includes getting their books. If a mom called me with the story that you have heard, I would be nice about it, but I wouldn't engage very much. I would say very pleasantly that I'm sure she will be able to find the right books, and pretty much leave it at that.

 

I don't want to negotiate all the time. It is exhausting and pointless. There are people who I know who never teach a class but always nitpick everyone else's. I love them, but I have learned that entertaining these conversations sucks all the joy out of my teaching and doesn't really accomplish anything.

 

I am a good teacher, and I prepare thoroughly and document requirements well in advance. I wouldn't kick a kid out of the class for not having the right book the first day, but I wouldn't let that continue, either. I would annouce the first day that my expectation is xxx for homework out of yyy book, and I would not help someone figure out how to use a different translation. Part of a literature class is looking at the same material together. I would try to make it easy to use a different edition--say if there is another copy of "Julius Ceasar" kicking around at home I would use act and scene references rather than page numbers to find the right passage. But if part of the class is marking things up, it's not optional. If their family copy of Julius Ceasar is an old leather bound heirloom, they still have to figure out how to mark it up in a way that is acceptable to both of us.

 

Strider, I know how thorough you are and I think that you have to pass the bean dip to some extent when these things happen. It's the same dynamic, really. You can be sympathetic but firm.