Latin-Centered Homeschoolers

[CalicoKat]

I'm very very curious about this style of homechooling. For those of you who do it, please elaborate. How is it different? What does your day look like? Tips & secrets to getting started? What would you tell someone who's interested.

 

 

Thanks,

CalicoKat

[sweetTN]

:bigear:

[iwka]

You may be interested in looking into the CLAA (The Classical Liberal Arts Academy - online), which is very similar to what D. Campbell's book (LCC) is about.

 

They also have a Forum, but you need to register to get a full access. There you can read about families enrolled in the program, their schedules etc.

[Guest]

Bump!

 

I know there are a lot of people on here who are very inspiring when it comes to this and if you do some searches, there are quite a few threads, as well. One of my favorite blogs is Angelina in Louisiana's.

[elegantlion]

Here's a link to Drew's website. That might answer some questions for you. I would encourage you to at least read the link for chapter 3, entitled Multum non Multa.

 

I'm no expert on LCC, many others can speak more eloquently on the subject, but this is our 2nd year using it as our framework and it has been very liberating.

 

Our core subjects are Latin, Math, and Classical Writing and we spend the bulk of our day on those.

 

On thing that was appealing to me were the high school recs. Not having been classically educated I was pulling my hair (almost literally) trying to figure out what & how to learn ahead of my child. LCC outlines a program for adults to follow to be better equipped to teach our children.

 

If you are interested I really recommend reading the book. The 2nd edition is the most current book. I think it's worth reading even if you are not sure you want a Latin-centered curriculum. Of course, I'm pretty biased, I've already had to tape the cover on my 2nd edition I'm flipping through it so often.

Edited August 31, 2009 by elegantlion

[dragons in the flower bed]

How is it different?

 

It's simpler and more focused. An LCCer gets more done through fewer subjects.

 

What does your day look like?

 

We give our best hour to Latin, usually around 10 a.m. I know some LCCers (and once was one) for whom Latin includes grammar, narrations, Roman history, art appreciation and mapwork. Someday we will be one of those again, when we have enough Latin to study some of the classics in that language (so, like, 10th grade).

 

We also give a bunch of time to math, and again, I know at least one LCCers who teaches history and science through math. I would love to do that, but my kids would rebel. They love science.

 

Then we give a good chunk of time to piano. We spend some time doing memory work, too.

 

After these, we move on to the subjects I think of as skippable in a crunch: Greek or Hebrew, which is done daily, and the weekly subjects, different depending on the day.

 

Here's a major difference between LCC and WTM: LCC schedules only one day for history. There's one class period per week for literature, religion, geography, and science, too.

 

On that day we do history (or religion or whatever) for as long as it takes, sometimes an hour, sometimes, if the kids get rolling, two or even three. Three usually means we assembled some costumes and the kids are playing, but sometimes it means the kids loved the history book and are reading independently.

 

Tips & secrets to getting started?

 

Relax. Ignore the WTM's great ideas about outlining, mapwork, assembling giant notebooks filled with pages. You're going to be producing less stuff (but not less learning), and you have to become okay with that.

 

What would you tell someone who's interested.

 

Have you read the book yet? If your library doesn't have it, ask them to buy it.

[Trixie]

We’ve always been unschoolers, but I began to add a bit more structure to our days about a year or two ago, largely because of my mental need for organization, without which I practically break out in hives after a while. :D And, of course, because we do believe in a good grounding in the classics.

 

We have our "core" or "dailies"—math, logic, Latin—subjects that we do every day. History, higher math, geography, science, and writing we try to do weekly. We don’t do "grade levels" (or grades, for that matter), but we do try to follow the general progression of Drew Campbell’s "LCC."

 

For example, we are studying history generally chronologically, with detours as the interests arise. Based on DS’s age (10, almost 11) "LCC" prescribes studying the Middle Ages, but we’re still learning about Ancient Rome. Because Greece and Rome are of particular interest in our house, we’ve taken quite a bit of time on those. History is less a "subject" than an underlying study for us, so we do virtually daily reading and lots of time- and culture-relevant projects. We’ll probably get to the Middle Ages sometime around January, if the library stacks don’t keep luring us further into the Ancients. :)

 

We try to do science, higher math, writing and geography weekly, one subject per day. We do a lot of reading and discussing and hands-on activities rather than daily "classes" in each subject. That’s just what works for us. I don’t recall what "LCC" recommends for those subjects.

 

That said, more often than not, geography just happens as we go along rather than as a separate subject: where a historical (or current) event happened, where Mt. Nyiragongo is, the location of a family member’s new hometown—all get posted on world wall map with some time spent learning about the area/event/culture.

 

Science we cover as our interests and daily life lead us. DS is a voracious reader and wanders down lots of scientific rabbit trails as something he’s reading strikes his fancy, and vice versa. Collecting cicada shells morphed into learning about insects for several weeks (and resulted in a kitchen-windowsill collection of cicada-killer wasps—something I didn’t even know existed until last month). Our upcoming reading about Vesuvius will no doubt lead to (yet another!) volcano-building project and geology study. And the classes we’re taking at the local zoo this year will probably send us off on interesting paths learning about various local plants, animals, habitats, and ecologies.

 

I’m not sure how what we do compares with what others who follow a Latin-centered (or traditionally classical) approach do; but our approach in general is more unschooly than most of those I see on this forum, so it may not be quite what you’re looking for. :)

[Trixie]

Relax. Ignore the WTM's great ideas about outlining, mapwork, assembling giant notebooks filled with pages. You're going to be producing less stuff (but not less learning), and you have to become okay with that.

 

Yes, yes, and yes!

 

I second all of that.

[Melissa B]

Highlands Latin School is another really good source for seeing what a typical latin-centered program would look like. If you click the link below, scroll down and click on the 2009-2010 Course catalog you can see schedules for each grade that include exactly what they study, for how long and the resources used.

 

 

http://www.thelatinschool.org/Admissions.html

[CalicoKat]

Bump!

 

I know there are a lot of people on here who are very inspiring when it comes to this and if you do some searches, there are quite a few threads, as well. One of my favorite blogs is Angelina in Louisiana's.

very interesting indeed. I'll be spending more time there.

[CalicoKat]

It's simpler and more focused. An LCCer gets more done through fewer subjects.

 

 

 

We give our best hour to Latin, usually around 10 a.m. I know some LCCers (and once was one) for whom Latin includes grammar, narrations, Roman history, art appreciation and mapwork. Someday we will be one of those again, when we have enough Latin to study some of the classics in that language (so, like, 10th grade).

 

We also give a bunch of time to math, and again, I know at least one LCCers who teaches history and science through math. I would love to do that, but my kids would rebel. They love science.

 

Then we give a good chunk of time to piano. We spend some time doing memory work, too.

 

After these, we move on to the subjects I think of as skippable in a crunch: Greek or Hebrew, which is done daily, and the weekly subjects, different depending on the day.

 

Here's a major difference between LCC and WTM: LCC schedules only one day for history. There's one class period per week for literature, religion, geography, and science, too.

 

On that day we do history (or religion or whatever) for as long as it takes, sometimes an hour, sometimes, if the kids get rolling, two or even three. Three usually means we assembled some costumes and the kids are playing, but sometimes it means the kids loved the history book and are reading independently.

 

 

 

Relax. Ignore the WTM's great ideas about outlining, mapwork, assembling giant notebooks filled with pages. You're going to be producing less stuff (but not less learning), and you have to become okay with that.

 

 

 

Have you read the book yet? If your library doesn't have it, ask them to buy it.

what structure does your memory work time "hang on." How do you do it.

Currently using the scripture memory system from SCM.com for scripture and other things. Just curious if you have a better suggestion.

[CalicoKat]

Some more questions:

 

We're behind already if we follow Drew's suggestion. (My kids are 10, 8,6,4, and 2.)

 

1. We started Prima Latina this summer and we're on lesson 7. So for my 5th and 3rd graders they're not doing Latina Christina just yet. Should we PL (everyone's doing it together) and then move on and not worry about being on schedule or should I move them in to LC right away?

 

2. History: My 1st and 3rd grader started SOTW Ancients this fall. Can I use that instead of CHOW? Or should I plan to use CHOW for their read alouds?

 

My 5th grader just stared with Memoria Press's Intro to Classic Studies. She's my history buff and is thrilled about the GM book. FMOR has piqued her interest but she's not willing to give me a verdict just yet. She's also listening in with the SOTW and filling in her history notebook on things she missed waaaay back in K when she did SOTW. This is OK right?

 

3. 1st and 3rd grader are reading independently. They're using Pathway readers and generally like using them because they can see their progress. The reading as outlined in the Drew's book reminds me somewhat of the whole-language approach to Lang. Arts. Is there more structure - or do I need to just pry my white knuckles off the whole structured approach and give in. :) Think I know the answer, but encourage me to let go.

 

4. Yes, I'm reading the book. :D Enjoying the book. The whole section on how Lang. Arts. transforms into less is amazing to me. Just trying to fit in all the pieces this year is what lead me to look for something different. It's just so appealing to now have spelling, grammar, writing, reading/vocabulary as separate subjects.

 

5. Grammar - I believe what I'm reading, that the study of Latin lends itself to good grammer and excellent writing skills. BUT here's another subject my brain is having a spasm about. We're currenty using R&S grammar - slooowllly - DD 10 is in the 3rd grade book. She'd be thrilled to stop. She pretty much loathes it. I'm scared that if we stop, fail at Latin, we'll be even further behind. And since we're technically "behind" in studying Latin already am I putting us at further disavantage if we quit R&S grammar? So far her knowledge from R&S grammar has helped in the PL program. And my 1st grader has learned enough that we didn't do FLL. He's going to benefit the most. My 3rd grader too - she's delayed by a year because of ADHD, but coming along nicely.

[dragons in the flower bed]

what structure does your memory work time "hang on." How do you do it.

Currently using the scripture memory system from SCM.com for scripture and other things. Just curious if you have a better suggestion.

 

Yes. I don't do Scripture memory, but I adapted the system from SCM (with their permission) to work in a binder so that I could put longer poems and speeches into it. After I adapted it, I made the file publicly available on my website; it's called Mnemosyne and available here while I switch website hosts. My children use this system.

 

Drew recommends several different structures for memory work in his book Living Memory.

[dragons in the flower bed]

Okay, I'll pretend to be an expert. :D Just keep in mind I am really a chubby lady who reads too much listening to loud music and trying to ignore her children for ten blessed seconds.

 

1. We started Prima Latina this summer and we're on lesson 7. So for my 5th and 3rd graders they're not doing Latina Christina just yet. Should we PL (everyone's doing it together) and then move on and not worry about being on schedule or should I move them in to LC right away?

 

With Latin, as with any skill-based subject, go at the student's own pace.

 

2. History: My 1st and 3rd grader started SOTW Ancients this fall. Can I use that instead of CHOW? Or should I plan to use CHOW for their read alouds?

 

My 5th grader just stared with Memoria Press's Intro to Classic Studies. She's my history buff and is thrilled about the GM book. FMOR has piqued her interest but she's not willing to give me a verdict just yet. She's also listening in with the SOTW and filling in her history notebook on things she missed waaaay back in K when she did SOTW. This is OK right?

 

You could use either SOTW or CHOW for their history. I would probably stick with SOTW just because you already started with that for this school year. If they don't like it or are having trouble seeing the big picture, you could switch to CHOW. But it really doesn't matter that much.

 

Is your concern the amount of history you're doing? What is your fifth grader doing all together? Stephanie (Mama Lynx) is LCCing and does a couple days a week of history with her kids, or more, so even if it runs over, it could still be really pretty LCC.

 

LCC is about where you place your priorities, not what history book you use in first grade. For this reason I can't really stamp your kids' plans A-OK. It's not that it's not good; it's just that I don't have the stamp.

 

3. 1st and 3rd grader are reading independently. They're using Pathway readers and generally like using them because they can see their progress. The reading as outlined in the Drew's book reminds me somewhat of the whole-language approach to Lang. Arts. Is there more structure - or do I need to just pry my white knuckles off the whole structured approach and give in. :) Think I know the answer, but encourage me to let go.

 

Well, the goal of phonics instruction is to create kids who can sound out any word they encounter. Once they can do that, they can be set loose on the English language because they can sound out any word they encounter.

 

I never understood the graded readers thing. The only difficulties kids who know phonics will come across are in vocabulary. Thank goodness, dictionaries are only six dollars. Show your kids how to use them, and set them loose on a good book.

 

4. Yes, I'm reading the book. :D Enjoying the book. The whole section on how Lang. Arts. transforms into less is amazing to me. Just trying to fit in all the pieces this year is what lead me to look for something different. It's just so appealing to now have spelling, grammar, writing, reading/vocabulary as separate subjects.

 

Really? That doesn't drive you nuts? It would drive me nuts. The thing to know here is that you should do this homeschooling thing in the way that you think is best. If that means separate spelling, grammar, writing, reading/vocabulary, then by all means, do it that way! Don't change unless you have a good reason. If you aren't sure, fold a piece of paper in half vertically and horizontally, write pros and cons on the top, LCC and current method on the left sides, and write what occurs to you for a couple of days. Then your chart can help you decide.

 

5. Grammar - I believe what I'm reading, that the study of Latin lends itself to good grammar and excellent writing skills. BUT here's another subject my brain is having a spasm about. We're currenty using R&S grammar - slooowllly - DD 10 is in the 3rd grade book. She'd be thrilled to stop. She pretty much loathes it. I'm scared that if we stop, fail at Latin, we'll be even further behind. And since we're technically "behind" in studying Latin already am I putting us at further disavantage if we quit R&S grammar? So far her knowledge from R&S grammar has helped in the PL program. And my 1st grader has learned enough that we didn't do FLL. He's going to benefit the most. My 3rd grader too - she's delayed by a year because of ADHD, but coming along nicely.

 

Again calling on someone else's experiences, IIRC, Stephanie stopped doing grammar, or had done it through Latin, then when she hit the big bad Latin later, or quite possibility it was the progym, she went back and did grammar.

 

But I don't know what's in R&S 3rd grade grammar. Usually at that age it's parts of speech and punctuation, right? That can totally be taught without a textbook, easily. In my experience, it's diagramming, 5th grade grammar and upwards, that becomes both useful and tricky to teach through real life. What I've done with two of my kids now is teach early grammar through Latin, Mad Libs, copywork and dictation, but in 4th grade use The Language Mechanic to make sure they really understand why these nitzy little details are important. My plan for 5th & up is to work on diagramming and outlining like SWB talks about in WTM, and I'll be teaching that in the context of writing, as it relates to the kids' writing. But my oldest is only 2 years older than yours and has spent two years trying unschooling and public school, so, I have yet to put this plan into practice. Really, go take momof7's advice!

Edited September 1, 2009 by dragons in the flower bed
tense problems

[5Youngs]

We're following LCC.

I can't tell you how much it has validated spending more school time on my kids individual interests and given me the freedom to let go of my ps background! :D

 

We, too, started a little behind in latin, due to finding this method after homeschooling for years.

The author is all too willing to help you with playing 'catch-up' in order to start the next level for your child.

I have NEVER found his level of generosity and genuine care. Anywhere.

I posted my concerns on this forum and he responded with his suggestions.

That was like hearing God' voice, validating that this was the right path for us.

 

We have virtually NO stress, my sons don't complain a bit during the day, and they have hours to read, which is what they all enjoy doing!

 

*Latin moves at your child's pace, though sometimes they will need a little prompting. ;)

*Math is more fun for them because they don't have 20 other subjects to squeeze in afterwards.

*They are reading books that challenge them and they LOVE it~

We were already following AO, so the change was not readily apparent here.

Just not as much pressure to speed through them at a break-neck pace, as fewer books are required and they can add to the list as they finish those.

*Living Memory is a HUGE book that covers just about everything that I wanted them to memorize, along with a bazillion other priceless quotes, lists, oddities that I had never even heard of.

The lack of clutter on my book shelf by using this book instead of 25 library books is priceless to me! :D

*Attempting Classical Writing. It's more comprehensive than anything I've ever used and English is my favorite subject!

 

Overall, I'm just thankful for these forums!

I don't know that I would have heard about LCC or have been as interested to find out more about it if I hadn't seen so many wonderful comments about it~

 

HTH!

Dawanna

Edited September 1, 2009 by 5Youngs
punctuation

[elegantlion]

We're following LCC.

I can't tell you how much it has validated spending more school time on my kids individual interests and given me the freedom to let go of my ps background! :D

 

We, too, started a little behind in latin, due to finding this method after homeschooling for years.

The author is all too willing to help you with playing 'catch-up' in order to start the next level for your child.

I have NEVER found his level of generosity and genuine care. Anywhere.

I posted my concerns on this forum and he responded with his suggestions.

That was like hearing God' voice, validating that this was the right path for us.

 

We have virtually NO stress, my sons don't complain a bit during the day, and they have hours to read, which is what they all enjoy doing!

 

*Latin moves at your child's pace, though sometimes they will need a little prompting. ;)

*Math is more fun for them because they don't have 20 other subjects to squeeze in afterwards.

*They are reading books that challenge them and they LOVE it~

We were already following AO, so the change was not readily apparent here.

Just not as much pressure to speed through them at a break-neck pace, as fewer books are required and they can add to the list as they finish those.

*Living Memory is a HUGE book that covers just about everything that I wanted them to memorize, along with a bazillion other priceless quotes, lists, oddities that I had never even heard of.

The lack of clutter on my book shelf by using this book instead of 25 library books is priceless to me! :D

*Attempting Classical Writing. It's more comprehensive than anything I've ever used and English is my favorite subject!

 

Overall, I'm just thankful for these forums!

I don't know that I would have heard about LCC or have been as interested to find out more about it if I hadn't seen so many wonderful comments about it~

 

HTH!

Dawanna

 

 

:iagree:1st-3rd we homeschooled using a traditional box curriculum. Decided that wouldn't work for ds went eclectic in 4th. Felt like I spent the entire year telling ds to hurry up so we could move on to another subject. :glare: A very.stressful.year. Planned 5th in the same manner but before I hit order on the very giantic RR order I read LCC and bam! the light came on.

 

5th grade (last year) was our most relaxed year and I feel we accomplished more. It was so refreshing. we are on week 4 of 6th grade and I feel the same way.

 

We use LCC as a framework and fill in the pieces using what works best for our family. I'm still doing some grammar with CW Homer as I'm not confident enough in teaching grammar only through Latin.

 

We do more science than LCC reccommends because that is where my ds' interests lie. But because of the multum non multa approach (which I think really translates as "chill out") we have the time to do that.

[CalicoKat]

Yes. I don't do Scripture memory, but I adapted the system from SCM (with their permission) to work in a binder so that I could put longer poems and speeches into it. After I adapted it, I made the file publicly available on my website; it's called Mnemosyne and available here while I switch website hosts. My children use this system.

 

Drew recommends several different structures for memory work in his book Living Memory.

Is his book Memory Work not at Memoria Press any longer -- the one he recommended in his other book?

[dragons in the flower bed]

Is his book Memory Work not at Memoria Press any longer -- the one he recommended in his other book?

 

It never was published at Memoria Press, as he believed it would be when LCC2 when to press. The Memory Work book he refers to in LCC2 is the Living Memory book available on Lulu.

[CalicoKat]

Okay, I'll pretend to be an expert. :D Just keep in mind I am really a chubby lady who reads too much listening to loud music and trying to ignore her children for ten blessed seconds.

Sounds like we'd get along really well. :D

 

 

You could use either SOTW or CHOW for their history. I would probably stick with SOTW just because you already started with that for this school year. If they don't like it or are having trouble seeing the big picture, you could switch to CHOW. But it really doesn't matter that much.

 

Is your concern the amount of history you're doing? What is your fifth grader doing all together? Stephanie (Mama Lynx) is LCCing and does a couple days a week of history with her kids, or more, so even if it runs over, it could still be really pretty LCC.

 

LCC is about where you place your priorities, not what history book you use in first grade. For this reason I can't really stamp your kids' plans A-OK. It's not that it's not good; it's just that I don't have the stamp.

 

Understood.

 

Well, the goal of phonics instruction is to create kids who can sound out any word they encounter. Once they can do that, they can be set loose on the English language because they can sound out any word they encounter.

 

I never understood the graded readers thing. The only difficulties kids who know phonics will come across are in vocabulary. Thank goodness, dictionaries are only six dollars. Show your kids how to use them, and set them loose on a good book.

 

I used them only because oldest prefers not to have to read anything and I had other littles and I didn't want her to slip through the cracks because I was distracted with the others. But they're all reading independently now and I can focus my energies in one direction this year.

 

Really? That doesn't drive you nuts? It would drive me nuts. The thing to know here is that you should do this homeschooling thing in the way that you think is best. If that means separate spelling, grammar, writing, reading/vocabulary, then by all means, do it that way! Don't change unless you have a good reason. If you aren't sure, fold a piece of paper in half vertically and horizontally, write pros and cons on the top, LCC and current method on the left sides, and write what occurs to you for a couple of days. Then your chart can help you decide.

 

Opps, typo in my original -- NOT instead of NOW. Its hard to manage lang. arts when all the subjects are divided up. Too many workbooks, too many days, too long.

 

I will make a pro/con list. Good thought.

[Jami]

I think one thing to be cautious about is assuming that LCC equates to easy or unschooling just because there are fewer scheduled subjects.

 

If you're truly using a full Latin, progym writing and math program rigorously (at the skill level your child is ready for), then yes, I think less is more. And since you want to be preparing your child to read the Great Books in high school, the book choices leading up to that need to be increasingly more challenging in language and ideas. I honestly don't think Latin-centered works if you (general) use the easiest Latin program on the market without enough deliberate teaching of grammar, a more relaxed math program, and a don't use a writing program that fully teaches and requires dialectic and rhetorical skills. Or if you just leave all the other subjects to independent reading rather than focus on a few truly excellent "good" books to prepare a child for the Great Books. And Drew's plan does this. But with time and the "telephone game" at work, it seems to me that LCC begins to mean different things to different people. Kind of like Charlotte Mason. Or TWTM.

 

For less is more to work, the less truly has to be more. Ya know? And that can be teacher intensive, like Classical Writing for example. Or teaching Latin beyond beginning levels. Which I admit, makes me nervous! ;)

[CalicoKat]

I think one thing to be cautious about is assuming that LCC equates to easy or unschooling just because there are fewer scheduled subjects.

 

If you're truly using a full Latin, progym writing and math program rigorously (at the skill level your child is ready for), then yes, I think less is more. And since you want to be preparing your child to read the Great Books in high school, the book choices leading up to that need to be increasingly more challenging in language and ideas. I honestly don't think Latin-centered works if you (general) use the easiest Latin program on the market without enough deliberate teaching of grammar, a more relaxed math program, and a don't use a writing program that fully teaches and requires dialectic and rhetorical skills. Or if you just leave all the other subjects to independent reading rather than focus on a few truly excellent "good" books to prepare a child for the Great Books. And Drew's plan does this. But with time and the "telephone game" at work, it seems to me that LCC begins to mean different things to different people. Kind of like Charlotte Mason. Or TWTM.

 

For less is more to work, the less truly has to be more. Ya know? And that can be teacher intensive, like Classical Writing for example. Or teaching Latin beyond beginning levels. Which I admit, makes me nervous! ;)

yes, looking for efficiency of teaching. But definately crave quality and depth.

 

I hadn't thought about how the Latin programs are rated. Has this been done? We started with Prima Latina and intend to keep going with the program -- primarily because of the DVD's. I'm learning with the kids and someone has to be "the teacher." :001_smile:

[elegantlion]

yes, looking for efficiency of teaching. But definately crave quality and depth.

 

I hadn't thought about how the Latin programs are rated. Has this been done? We started with Prima Latina and intend to keep going with the program -- primarily because of the DVD's. I'm learning with the kids and someone has to be "the teacher." :001_smile:

 

One thing I have done is worked on my own self-ed goals. I had no Latin training before last year. We are using LFC because that works best for us. We are on primer b this year and not only am I working ahead of ds I've purchased Latin Alive to work through before teaching. I'm only on week 5 but it's already given me depth of understanding and helped me be more confident in my teaching.

 

If you like the style of Prima Latina you could look to LC1 or First Form Latin for yourself.

[Trixie]

I think one thing to be cautious about is assuming that LCC equates to easy or unschooling just because there are fewer scheduled subjects.

 

However, that's not to say, either, that unschooling equates to easy or that an unschoolish approach to a Latin-centered curriculum/education isn't rigorous or that it lacks quality or depth. :)

[buddhabelly]

I just wanted to point out two things. First, the second edition of LCC does have a chapter entitled "In Media Res: Adapting the Curriculum for Older Beginners and Adults." It addresses the issue of students who begin Latin in fourth or fifth (or sixth or seventh) grade. He suggests following the normal sequence (LC 1, LC 2, Henle unless perhaps he is in 8th grade and then he can begin with Henle. I personally like Latin for Children, particularly Primer A, but that's just me.

 

Secondly, the composition curriculum recommended in LCC (Classical Writing) does have a grammar component, so you don't have to decide whether to chuck grammar forever and just do Latin. My son learned way more grammar in his Latin studies (LFC A through C), but I can't be sure he would learn what dependent and independent clauses are by studying Latin. Classical Writing uses Harvey's Grammar, but we used FLL 1 & 2 (that's all that had been written at that time), Growing with Grammar (3 and 5) and now I think I'll get Analytical Grammar to help us with Homer.

 

May I just say that Homer has a steep learning curve for the instructor? I think I'm getting the hang of it. More importantly, I am motivated to keep at it. I have a lot of the same problems that I had with Aesop, namely that I do not have any interest in my son's writing imitating the models chosen for Homer. Yes, I know I can choose my own models, but I'm lazy. :) In Homer, though, the child practices concision (being concise) and then elaboration (more character development, more description, more quotes), so the original writing style of the model doesn't really matter.

 

It is kind of a coincidence and kind of not that my son's schedule for 5th grade is almost exactly what is recommended for 5th grade in LCC: Singapore 5 for math, Homer for language arts, Elementary Greek (2) and Latin. I think we're doing Latin Primer -- it looks good. I also like Henle, so perhaps I'll "follow along" a bit in Henle to really compare the two. Either way, he'll get a comprehensive review of Latin and then some new material.

 

I guess we're a combination of TWTM and LCC, because my son loves history.

 

Julie

[kwg]

I think one thing to be cautious about is assuming that LCC equates to easy or unschooling just because there are fewer scheduled subjects.

 

If you're truly using a full Latin, progym writing and math program rigorously (at the skill level your child is ready for), then yes, I think less is more. And since you want to be preparing your child to read the Great Books in high school, the book choices leading up to that need to be increasingly more challenging in language and ideas. I honestly don't think Latin-centered works if you (general) use the easiest Latin program on the market without enough deliberate teaching of grammar, .........

 

For less is more to work, the less truly has to be more. Ya know? And that can be teacher intensive, like Classical Writing for example. Or teaching Latin beyond beginning levels. Which I admit, makes me nervous! ;)

 

I woudl love to hear which latin programs are rigorous and secular! I read his book this summer and am trying to implement it. This would be for a 3rd grader (next school year). Or which ones out there are "easy" and therefore I will stay away.

 

Someone mentioned notebooks and I have been wondering about that. On the one hand, it helps me to write things down, so perhaps we should have a (for example) literature notebook where ds narrates what the myth was about then draws a picture. Or not? I have friends irl who have all these notebooks and I worry perhaps I should do something like this?

 

I am enjoying reading everyone's thoughts!

[Trixie]

I woudl love to hear which latin programs are rigorous and secular! I read his book this summer and am trying to implement it. This would be for a 3rd grader (next school year). Or which ones out there are "easy" and therefore I will stay away.

 

 

I would say that Lively Latin is fairly rigorous, depending on your pace. We do Latin daily, with lots of vocab. and chant review, and LL has worked well for us. And it's secular. :)

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

Ok ... This is the first time I've heard about LCC and I'm intrigued ... and overwhelmed ...

[Heidi]

Ok ... This is the first time I've heard about LCC and I'm intrigued ... and overwhelmed ...

 

Me too! I just purchased the book yesterday. Can't wait to read it!:D

[5Youngs]

I would say that ANY latin program COULD be rigorous for your child.:confused:

It's a new skill and requires a lot of hard work and thinking.

As with everything else in homeschooling, you just have to challenge YOUR child and not worry about how someone else would 'rate' it. ;)

I started Prima Latina with my sons in 3rd and 1st grade, only to drop it when well-meaning homeschoolers and my parents wanted to know 'why in the world I was wasting time learning a second language that was so irrelevant.'

Everyone told me that Spanish or French was the way to go.

I listened to the nay-sayers, instead of my own intuition.

Now I'm back on the path that I started.

A big 'thank you!' to Drew Campbell for explaining to me the 'whys?' of teaching latin!:D

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

Ever since reading this thread I have been reading all I can find on it, discussing it with DH, reading to him what I can find on it .. lol I ended up ordering the book. I want to get Climbing Parnassus too but DH said we'll start with one to see what we think of it and I chose LCC.

 

I guess I'm so intrigued because although the idea is new to me we were already leaning this way without realizing it was a way to lean .. if that makes sense ..

 

I have so many questions bouncing around in my head so I'm eager to get the book and understand this better.

[St. Theophan Academy]

we are latin-centered - in that instead of trying to do it all, we focus on the important things. I follow much of Drew's curriculum, with my own added waldorf/CM flavor.

[Trixie]

Ever since reading this thread I have been reading all I can find on it, discussing it with DH, reading to him what I can find on it .. lol I ended up ordering the book. I want to get Climbing Parnassus too but DH said we'll start with one to see what we think of it and I chose LCC.

 

I guess I'm so intrigued because although the idea is new to me we were already leaning this way without realizing it was a way to lean .. if that makes sense ..

 

I have so many questions bouncing around in my head so I'm eager to get the book and understand this better.

 

If you're looking for a more thorough understanding of the value of a traditional/classical, Latin-centered education, "Climbing Parnassus" is the better read, in my opinion. "LCC" is a more a curriculum plan, a guideline for implementing the kind of education that Simmons describes.

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

If you're looking for a more thorough understanding of the value of a traditional/classical, Latin-centered education, "Climbing Parnassus" is the better read, in my opinion. "LCC" is a more a curriculum plan, a guideline for implementing the kind of education that Simmons describes.

 

That's what I figured. I have every intention of getting it as well because of the history it sounded like it contained although I'm pretty sold on the value of it. What I was more immediately curious about was greater detail on the implementation of it.

[Faithr]

We are doing LCC and have been since Easter 2008. I use the first edition though. I like it better. Drew meant the curriculum suggestions to be just suggestions. You are free to substitute, as long as it gets the job done. Also, Classical Writing hasn't worked for us so far. I'm still floundering around over writing.

 

I"m kind of like Trixie in that I came into LCC from a very unschoolish approach. I liked that I could intersperse a few basic subjects with a more delight directed learning. We are doing Latin, Greek, Math, lots of reading, copywork, and then 4 days a week we work on our Studies: American Studies, Ancient Studies, Religious Studies, Science. We do Lit at night as bedtime read alouds. My high schoolers are more formalized and vary slightly from the game plan. I also want to get more memorization in via Living Memory, Drew's memory book.

[dragons in the flower bed]

I have every intention of getting it as well because of the history it sounded like it contained although I'm pretty sold on the value of it.

 

You can watch a video lecture on it's topics by the author at Learn Out Loud. It's somewhat tricky to find in their library of 535 videos, so here's a direct link.

[Gretchen in NJ]

Here's a link to Drew's website. That might answer some questions for you. I would encourage you to at least read the link for chapter 3, entitled Multum non Multa.

 

I'm no expert on LCC, many others can speak more eloquently on the subject, but this is our 2nd year using it as our framework and it has been very liberating.

 

Our core subjects are Latin, Math, and Classical Writing and we spend the bulk of our day on those.

 

On thing that was appealing to me were the high school recs. Not having been classically educated I was pulling my hair (almost literally) trying to figure out what & how to learn ahead of my child. LCC outlines a program for adults to follow to be better equipped to teach our children.

 

If you are interested I really recommend reading the book. The 2nd edition is the most current book. I think it's worth reading even if you are not sure you want a Latin-centered curriculum. Of course, I'm pretty biased, I've already had to tape the cover on my 2nd edition I'm flipping through it so often.

 

:iagree:This will be my first year using LCC. I had hit a mental road block when it came to choosing curriculum for my 5th and 6th graders. I liked some of the suggestions made from a few friends of mine and asked them where they were finding all of these neat books. They lead me to the LCC. I have to agree with elegantlion on chapter 3, entitled Multum non Multa. It was so freeing and took the weight off of my shoulders.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Gretchen in NJ

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

You can watch a video lecture on it's topics by the author at Learn Out Loud. It's somewhat tricky to find in their library of 535 videos, so here's a direct link.

 

Thank-you!!

[H.S. Burrow]

Well, I'm another who came to LCC after homeschooling for a couple of years and feeling overwhelmed trying to do it *all*. :) I have LCC2 and TWTM3 sitting side-by-side on my desk.....and I use both.

 

I LOVE how LCC allows me to focus on the important daily subjects - subjects that IMO are best taught small bits at a time, 5 days a week. As others have mentioned, I think it is important to remember that school looks a bit different for each family. The key is Multum non Multa. We do these subjects - in small bites - daily:

 

Math

Latin

CW / Grammar

Greek

Science - I had this scheduled for *just* Fridays, but my DS begged to have it daily!

 

Our weekly rotation is:

Monday - Literature

Tuesday - Religion

Wednesday - History & Geography

Thursday - Art & Music

Friday - Science Labs, projects and nature walks

 

The time spent on our weekly rotations varies from week to week. Sometimes it is about half an hour, others may be 2 hours.

[Heidi]

You can watch a video lecture on it's topics by the author at Learn Out Loud. It's somewhat tricky to find in their library of 535 videos, so here's a direct link.

 

I just finished watching this lecture. I'm a beginner homeschooler doing lots of research on methods and curriculum. I'm glad I came across this thread as I have learned little more about what a classical education is. While I've been researching and specifically while I was watching the lecture, I can't help but realize how uneducated I really am at this point in my life. I DO want something more for my children, and myself in the process. But that little whisper of doubt always seems to be in the background: how can I possibly give this sort of education to my children when I am so utterly uneducated! A latin-centered education seems to require a completely foreign mindset than what I have been trained to have.

Then something that Tracey Lee Simmons said struck a chord of hope. He was talking about how our founding father's received a Latin-centered education. He quoted Jefferson, "'To read the Latin and Greek authors in their original is a sublime luxury. I thank, on my knees, him who directed my early education for having in my possession to have such a rich source of delight.'

Simmons continues:

"That person, of course, was his father, Peter Jefferson, a man who had no classical education, but made sure his son got it. That classical education was worth the trouble, of course, to Jefferson, and seemed a perfectly self-evident truth to him."

 

I will make sure my children get it too! Thank you so much for the link ;)

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

Then something that Tracey Lee Simmons said struck a chord of hope. He was talking about how our founding father's received a Latin-centered education. He quoted Jefferson, "'To read the Latin and Greek authors in their original is a sublime luxury. I thank, on my knees, him who directed my early education for having in my possession to have such a rich source of delight.'

Simmons continues:

"That person, of course, was his father, Peter Jefferson, a man who had no classical education, but made sure his son got it. That classical education was worth the trouble, of course, to Jefferson, and seemed a perfectly self-evident truth to him."

 

I will make sure my children get it too! Thank you so much for the link ;)

 

That is so inspiring to me too. I haven't been able to watch it yet so thank-you for sharing that.

 

The idea of multum non multa is something I consider myself in need of. I have a chronic case of trying to do so much so quickly that I end up taking a lot of time to do nothing. I'm looking forward to benefiting from such studies myself.

[CalicoKat]

Ok ... This is the first time I've heard about LCC and I'm intrigued ... and overwhelmed ...

Completey agree. Overwhelmed. Intrigued.

 

But still having a hard time wrapping my braing about it all. It doesn't help that I tried to explain to my PhD educator sister LCC and she debunked it all as elitism and old-fashioned. Sorry, I didn't know enough yet how to argue with her. I listened to her thoughts and mostly I was thinking, "Yeah, you don't want me to do this with my kids because perhaps they'll end up better educated than your private-schooled Cathlolic kindergartner." She has always used her PhD status to try and convince me that she's knows better -- HAH! Her 6 yo still isn't potty trained. :) (OK, I know that's childish of me)

 

Still there's a part of me that's scared that if I depart from the conventional learning path I'll be all alone out there and what if..... I fail. Failure = kids don't succeed academically. I can just hear the "I told you so" 's already.

[dragons in the flower bed]

"That person, of course, was his father, Peter Jefferson, a man who had no classical education, but made sure his son got it. That classical education was worth the trouble, of course, to Jefferson, and seemed a perfectly self-evident truth to him."

 

I will make sure my children get it too! Thank you so much for the link ;)

 

 

It was in part my study of early American history that made me want to give my children a classical education. There's a lot of this. A great book on it is The Ideological Origins of the American Revolution.

 

Whenever someone tells me I can't do this, I think, well, I have significantly more resources than those colonists, and they did it. So I guess I can. Even today, when my printer busted, I had to remind myself of this. They did it. I can. It's a mantra. :)

[dragons in the flower bed]

It doesn't help that I tried to explain to my PhD educator sister LCC and she debunked it all as elitism and old-fashioned.

 

Drew has a doctorate. :001_smile:

 

She's an orange evaluating an apple, and all she can say, "It's dark red and bruises easily," because she's so focused on how not-an-orange it is.

 

Think of it like a worldview. That degree really thoroughly steeped her in an entirely different view of children and the goal of education.

[CalicoKat]

Baby steps. I think I'm going to make this transitions bit by bit starting with making our Latin studies more important rather than elective. And by adding Classical Writing to our day.

 

When I asked DH to look give me his thoughts about the writing he got excited about the kids reading the classics. He hasn't heard all my thoughts about LCC just yet as he's been overwhelmed with work.

 

My 5th grader's classical eduction then will be 3-fold this year as she's already doing the Intro. to Classics by Memoria Press. The others are doing SOTW vol. 1 as planned.

 

But I am looking into Singapore math for my 6 yo son. The others have been using MUS. He's working at the same level as my 8 yo dd and the competition there if they're working on the same material is counter productive for them both. So we moved him to R&S last year.

 

This summer - Christian Studies.

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

I empathize with many of the fears and insecurities. DHs family is already unsupportive of our decision to homeschool so I generally don't even talk about it with them. My book should be here today or tomorrow. I'm so impatient.

 

What I'm mostly confused with right now is the different models for teaching history/geography, etc. ie .. teaching several time periods side by side through the primary years (like the first edition of LCC recommended), teaching history chronologically for 5 years through the primary years (like Veritas Press and I think is suggested in the 2nd edition of LCC) or doing all of history over 4 years and cycling 3 times over 12 years of school (like Tapestry of Grace).

 

My son is only in PreK. I need to chill out. lol

[St. Theophan Academy]

love this perspective :)

[Mama Lynx]

You've had some great answers. I'll tell you what our day looks like:

 

I'm only doing LCC-ish for my olders. They like to read first thing in the morning, so they spend the mornings in their room reading history, or literature, or a classical studies assignment. We stick to the four-year history rotation, but be also do classical studies every year. (This year for classical studies my 13 year old is reading The Odyssey, Antigone, and Agamemnon; my 11 year old is reading D'Aulaire's Norse Myths, Roman mythology, and others to be decided.)

 

Usually while they read I work with my younger two. They are in 2nd and 3rd grade and we do math, phonics, grammar, and writing. They will begin Song School Latin and Song School Greek in a weekly co-op this year, along with recitation. I read to them selections from LCC. the older boys are in the modern year of world history and I don't care to do much of that with the youngers, so they are getting more purely LCC - fairy tales, Bible stories, Greek and Norse myths, etc. Not counting the read-alouds, their work takes an hour, hour and a half tops.

 

Then I work with my two olders on Latin, math, and the progymnasmata. My 13 year old comes to me for lessons, does the assignment and comes back to me to review the assignment - I work more directly through lessons with my 11 year old. We cover some grammar with the progym studies, but it mostly reinforces what we are learning in Latin. In our co-op, they will be getting extra Latin and Elementary Greek, along with Greek history.

 

My 13 year old is the only one doing formal science this year, and we are using the 8th grade science from the first version of LCC - reading Science Matters. We are also watching the Teaching Company video series The Joy of Science. All students will have science experiments in co-op.

 

Once a week the two olders get together with me for a discussion of the history, lit, and classical studies they've been reading.

 

Our day has an organic flow to it. No set schedule, but the kids come to me when they're ready for the lessons (well, the older two do - I have to corral the younger two).

[MomOfOneFunOne]

It was in part my study of early American history that made me want to give my children a classical education. There's a lot of this. A great book on it is The Ideological Origins of the American Revolution.

 

Whenever someone tells me I can't do this, I think, well, I have significantly more resources than those colonists, and they did it. So I guess I can. Even today, when my printer busted, I had to remind myself of this. They did it. I can. It's a mantra. :)

I *L*O*V*E*D that book. I have it around here somewhere and must dust it off to read again!

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

LCC arrived in the mail :D I was so excited I had to tell someone lol

[Heidi]

Oh man! I'm jealous... still waiting on mine... I've checked the mailbox twice now!