How do you know when to ditch your math program?

[LadyAberlin]

My ds is in kindergarten this year. We did Singapore early bird when he was 3 and 4. They were okay I didn't care for them much. Tried RS and he didn't care for that. We did MUS primer and loved that and about a 3rd of Alpha. We also did half of Horizons K. DS was doing really well with MUS but he was requesting we have a colorful book but my plan was to switch to Singapore Primary for K. I was using MUS as a filler. He seemed to like Horizons okay, but I didn't care for the way it taught the concepts. So anyway right now he is doing Critical Thinking company's Beginning mathematical Reasoning and he really likes it. If someone would tell me that it really is a complete math program, then we would ditch Singapore and just do that, but I don't hear about people using it much. We have been using Singapore 1A for 2 weeks and I hate it. I dread it. I'm a math person too. But ds is extremely stubborn and really wants to do things on his own and he can't do number bonds on his own especially since he has an adversion to manipulatives and repetition. He liked MUS's addition technique of vacuuming up numbers. But after a while he didn't want to use the blocks even when he still really needed them. He really liked Horizons numberline approach. My only thing is I don't see how that is really building the addition concept. I don't think using numberlines I think more the way MUS does. If someone can convince me that numberlines are really a great approach then maybe I could be more open minded about them. I really want to like Singapore, I do. I believe in the program, but it just doesn't seem to really click with ds. Maybe I just need to give it more time. I've considered switching to McRuffy because ds really likes their phonics, but since it is fairly new, it doesn't have a long track record and that makes me nervous. Anyway should I just keep on with the Singapore and how long should I give it before dropping it? Any advice? I just really want to find a program for ds. I really don't want to spend more money on another math program and that is coming from a curriculum junkie. Thanks for reading this!

[Amber in AUS]

I don't have any solutions, but i feel your pain. We have to constantly change things up drawing from a number of sources to keep it engaging and fun. We no longer follow a particular program but do Mish Mash Math.

[PeterPan]

Give him an addition table and let him do the math. He'll memorize the facts, learn the patterns, etc. ,without manips. Some people don't need manips.

[Mandamom]

I think that given your son is in kindergarten and has done all of that math (singapore, horizons, beginning reasoning, etc.) that you might just be waiting for him to mature a little. Singapore bonds were difficult for my children to understand and I think if I had waited until tehy were older it would have made more sense to them.

 

So, it sounds to me as if you have done a lot of math and it will be okay if you use what he likes -- Beginning reasoning (I'm not familiar with the book) -- until he's ready for the next step.

 

I'm a Math-U-see fan but I don't always use the manipulatives for my students -- I teach them the approach and if they understand without manipulatives I'm okay with that.

 

I also use number lines for some concepts and think they can be exremely helpful. So, I wouldn't be against them just because....

 

I'm not sure if this was helpful but these are my thoughts.

[melmichigan]

In another two weeks or so Singapore 1a has also gone through number lines and adding on in addition to number bonds. Children are then ready to memorize all addition facts through ten and you move on to subtraction for week 5 I think (top of my head here). I think some kids gets a better grasp on number bonds as they are again related to subtraction. The HIG's say not to get hung up on them not 'getting' number bonds, it will come. We use Singapore and then added in Progress in Mathematics CA versions to pull in some of the other concepts.

[modest-mama]

I know A Beka is not a favorite on this forum, but their K book is really colorful and inviting. It was just what my 5.5 ds needed to get motivated about math. It moves REALLY SLOW, which I like because he is an immature 5.5 yo. I like that he wants to do math because the book is so appealing. We only bought the book and none of the extras that they recommend. A simple and cheap investment.

[Jane]

Is your signature line correct? If so, it sounds to me like you may be trying to move faster than your child is ready to learn. I see in your signature line you were using Singapore Math 1A, but your son is only five. You said he completed the first K book in Horizons, but it's just the beginning of the school year. Did he do Horizons K in pre-school? Any time my children move beyond an expected grade level I praise them and promptly slow down (or stop) when they hit a wall.

[FO4UR]

There will be no harm done putting Singapore aside for a time...or changing your mind altogether.

 

At 5yo, just keep with the Mathematical Reasoning book - I'm not familiar with that book, but I firmly believe you can't mess up math at 5yo unless you make your child hate math.

 

I see you listed RS games in your siggy line - honestly, RS games alone (along with real life experience) is plenty. If he's gifted in math, just casually give him a push in a new direction and let him go with it. He may hate Singapore b/c it's "old hat."

 

There is always MEP. It's similar to Singapore, but he may enjoy the puzzles and brain teazers more.

[alexfam]

my ds was the same way. We switched to Abeka math. Abeka is a really good math program. It is in a workbook format that is very colorful and fun for the kids.

[LadyAberlin]

I need to edit my siggy. He hates the RS games. I told him that I thought we wouldn't do the Singapore anymore and he says he wants to do it. But then when we try to do it he is uncooperative. I may pull out the remainder of some of the math programs we haven't finished and let him try them and tell me what he likes the best. I might also just do the CTC math reasoning book by itself. I'll look into Abeka. Thanks:)

[Ali in OR]

Just another voice here agreeing with those who say to wait on Singapore 1A. It is not a kindergarten book. In order to do the mental math, the child really needs to be able to hold information in his or her head and manipulate it. When you add 8+6 in Singapore 1A, you're not just memorizing 14. That would be relatively easy, but not all that helpful for really learning how to work with and understand numbers. Singapore will teach you the strategy of making a 10. You have to know the combinations that make 10 with facility. For 8+6, you will make the 8 a 10. The child will need to recognize that he needs a 2 to make the 8 a 10. That 2 will come from the 6. The child will need to quickly realize that 6 can be broken into 2 and 4. Once he sees the 4, he knows he is adding that to 10 (he made one in his head with the 8 and 2) and he should immediately see the answer as 14 (because it's easy to add 10 to anything). This is tough stuff--not kindergarten level material. It's a lot to hold in your head at once. But it is so much more beneficial in the long run than just memorizing 8+6=14. With this strategy mastered, the child can then go on to learn how to add 78+6 or 78+16 with ease. This is the process of thinking mathematically or using mental math that so many people really appreciate with Singapore math.

 

We love Singapore here. After doing 1A/1B with my now 9 yo during her first grade year, I knew that I did not want to start it too early with my youngest daughter. She finished the earlybird series in spring of her preschool year. For K we ended up doing Horizons K. I'm sure there are lots of things that would work just fine for the K year such as the many programs people are mentioning in this thread. My advice is to save Singapore 1A/1B for first grade.

[Pongo]

What's his learning style. Seems like you have used many manip. based programs. It looks like he likes the novelty of the manips. then doesn't want to use them, even if he needs them. It looks like he is running the show. That many programs in that amount of time seems excessive.

 

I think YOU need to put an end to the madness. Math is work, nuff said. For some it comes easier and for others it's plain old work. I have a gifted dd working light years ahead of her siblings who, are both working comfortably on grade level. I run the math class, we do the lessons we are supposed in the manner we are to do them, if they knew better they wouldn't need me:D

Their are some subjects that just have to be like that for some kids. My ds would of had me chasing my tail if I allowed him the liberty to pick and choose what math programs he can do. Reading books, art, hands on projects, writing subjects, those are the things I give him some control over but math, especially where you said you are the math person, is my thing. You know best, take a break, look over the curricula you have, sketch out some goals then pick it and stay with it , for a year at least. Good Luck!!!

[Devotional Soul]

We just started McRuffy and my ds and I both LOVE it. We are having fun, and I feel like it is perfect for his age, with lots of fun games to reinforce everything. I'm not worried about it not having a long record because it's set to national standards, and math is now finally fun, which I think is most important.

 

BTW, I ditched out on Singapore and MUS primer.

Edited August 18, 2009 by Devotional Soul

[hmschooling]

I suggest putting down the texts altogether for a 5yo and play some math games! Use a text as your map, then he doesn't even have to see a single page. Whatever concept is being taught, play games and use real life FUN to teach it. Read Ruth Beechick's An Easy Start in Arithmetic for some ideas, grab some cuisenaire rods or math sense blocks along with an idea book for either one, play some board games and have him keep score with tallies or popsicicle sticks (then who won? That's greater than and less than concepts!), sort and classify snacks and then put them into patterns, etc. I have a file FULL of ideas to teach real math in real life without having to keep a kid's nose in a text book. Also, don't forget about reading living math books. We like Stuart Murphy here, as well as many others. Plenty of ideas for that on livingmath.net. And remember, being able to DO a math problem is not the same as "getting the concept". Can he show you how to do it with real objects after the lesson? Can he show you tomorrow? The next week? If so, he "got it" and if not, he could just "do it" on paper...that's not true understanding.

 

If you want my file, just send me a PM and I'll email it to you. :001_smile: He sounds very bright and I bet he'd have fun with these ideas and really develop his math skills!

[LadyAberlin]

What's his learning style. Seems like you have used many manip. based programs. It looks like he likes the novelty of the manips. then doesn't want to use them, even if he needs them. It looks like he is running the show. That many programs in that amount of time seems excessive.

 

I think YOU need to put an end to the madness. Math is work, nuff said. For some it comes easier and for others it's plain old work. I have a gifted dd working light years ahead of her siblings who, are both working comfortably on grade level. I run the math class, we do the lessons we are supposed in the manner we are to do them, if they knew better they wouldn't need me:D

Their are some subjects that just have to be like that for some kids. My ds would of had me chasing my tail if I allowed him the liberty to pick and choose what math programs he can do. Reading books, art, hands on projects, writing subjects, those are the things I give him some control over but math, especially where you said you are the math person, is my thing. You know best, take a break, look over the curricula you have, sketch out some goals then pick it and stay with it , for a year at least. Good Luck!!!

 

I know that is a lot of programs, but we completed the early bird series when he had just turned 4. So I wanted to hold off on Singapore Primary until K and not do it in prek. We did MUS Primer and completed it in about 5 months then we moved onto a combo of Horizons and Alpha. We haven't finished them totally, but my plan had been to start Singapore in K so I just stopped with those. So maybe we will go back to those and delay Singapore another year. We did do MUS and Horizons for an entire year.

[Pongo]

Did you know that Singapore 1A is suitable for 1st -2nd grades. This is on the Singapore website. I think it may be mental maturation, his awareness just hasn't increased as fast as the books are going which, are above grade level anyways:). I think your probably on the right track, doing MUS and Horizons although I think MUS is plenty on it's own for that age, sounds great. I hope you don't feel as if I am judging you by using so many programs. I am the BTDT crowd. My oldest was my guinea pig and we used Rightstart,MUS,JU,Singapore and Abeka......all before 1st grade. Then I took all the programs to my wonderful SIL that has a Masters in math and asked for help. She basically looked at every program, cover to cover and said this is what I would use if I could pick a math program for my class. That's what I did, sold the rest and never looked back. It has been wonderful to have a stable basal program.

 

I have used Singapore as my basal program for all three of my kiddos. They have all moved through it VERY differently and my younger two needed little breaks my oldest sailed right through it. I am sure you will make the right choice based on his needs:D

[Moni]

We've kept ours without ditching,

But we do

K -- no math

1st - math facts only, plus, minus, times, divide

2nd - Saxon Math 54

and then a year per Saxon book from then on.

 

Also did

Singapore Math 1B-6B and considered NEM.

 

But I wanted Saxon 54 and up because they are independent.

They were kind of my "math insurance" at the time, not having to rely on my availability, which transformed into not needing to rely on any teen boy being "receptive" to mother's imparting of math wisdom and teaching.

:seeya:

[ElizabethB]

We did 1A the second half of 1st grade and it took my daughter about a month or 2 before she got the number bonds. We just kept doing them anyway because they made sense to me. Eventually, they made sense to her and it really helped her understand subtraction and how subtraction is related to addition.

 

"I don't understand, why do I have to keep doing these things?"

"Just keep doing them."

 

A month or so later when we are doing number bonds with subtraction "Oh, these are the same as addition."

 

Every time we did them, I'd have her say "10 is made up of 6 and 4."

[LadyAberlin]

I didn't think you were judging me. I just wanted to make sure that it was understood by all that I didn't try all those programs in the last month and that it was over the course of the last 2 yrs LOL. I did horizons for the color and MUS because I liked it. Ds really needs color in all things. It isn't just math. I find things go so much smoother when there is color. I knew that technicaly Singapore 1A was first, but I also knew that some people used it in K. I actually had someone tell me to use it in prek when I was trying to decide where to go after the earlybird books. I just couldn't see doing it at age 4. I don't want to turn him off of math so we will probably just post pone Singapore.

 

Did you know that Singapore 1A is suitable for 1st -2nd grades. This is on the Singapore website. I think it may be mental maturation, his awareness just hasn't increased as fast as the books are going which, are above grade level anyways:). I think your probably on the right track, doing MUS and Horizons although I think MUS is plenty on it's own for that age, sounds great. I hope you don't feel as if I am judging you by using so many programs. I am the BTDT crowd. My oldest was my guinea pig and we used Rightstart,MUS,JU,Singapore and Abeka......all before 1st grade. Then I took all the programs to my wonderful SIL that has a Masters in math and asked for help. She basically looked at every program, cover to cover and said this is what I would use if I could pick a math program for my class. That's what I did, sold the rest and never looked back. It has been wonderful to have a stable basal program.

 

I have used Singapore as my basal program for all three of my kiddos. They have all moved through it VERY differently and my younger two needed little breaks my oldest sailed right through it. I am sure you will make the right choice based on his needs:D

[BillieBoy]

I didn't think you were judging me. I just wanted to make sure that it was understood by all that I didn't try all those programs in the last month and that it was over the course of the last 2 yrs LOL. I did horizons for the color and MUS because I liked it. Ds really needs color in all things. It isn't just math. I find things go so much smoother when there is color. I knew that technicaly Singapore 1A was first, but I also knew that some people used it in K. I actually had someone tell me to use it in prek when I was trying to decide where to go after the earlybird books. I just couldn't see doing it at age 4. I don't want to turn him off of math so we will probably just post pone Singapore.

 

I am a huge advocate and supporter of Singapore for all sorts of reasons. But like other posters said, and it states on their website, children in Singapore do not start 1A until 7 years old. Now to contradict myself, my dd did start 1A at 5 but only because I majored in math and could recognize she was very mathy, did I move forward at that point. If you wanted to stick with Singapore I don't see any reason why you couldn't start 1A, take your time and don't do it to any time table. To me, this level is the MOST important for mental math mastery. I would use all the extra practice, intensive practice and word problems for that level and take your time until bond mastery is attained. So if it takes 10 months for 1A then so be it. Time is not the crucial component but conceptual mastery is. Good luck.

 

From what I understand it is harder to get back in the saddle with Singapore in a later grade. I would pick something that fits and stick with it, too much switching around can get confusing and frustrating.