Ugh, what do I say to this mom?

[Margo out of lurking]

I work part time at our library. We have a woman working with us through a social services program. She's here temporarily for a few months, very sweet, going through very tough times in her life. In the past three months, she and her husband were saved, got married, and he left her a week later. She found out she's pregnant, her husband's wavering about coming back home, she and her kids (1 of which is the husband's) have been living with various relatives, her father was diagnosed with cancer, her 5 yodd broke her arm while falling, I know it's been rough.

 

She brought her kids (1 and 5) in last night to use a typewriter. The kids had been in daycare all day and I know they were tired. I know she's stressed, I know her kids are feeling it too. Mom snapped. Not only was she yelling at them, horribly, repeatedly, but she also slapped them at least twice. "I told you to sit over there," "Don't bug me right now!" it just went on and on, for 40 mins. I was almost sick to my stomach listening to her. It was shocking, nasty, ugly.

 

I'm not a boss. It's none of my business. However, we are "work friendly," and she is my sister in Christ. I know she was embarrassed (and it was one of the things she yelled at her kids), and I KNOW she'll mention it to me next week, probably in the terms of "You must think my kids are awful."

I can be very gentle. If she brought it up to me right now, I'd tell her that I know things have been very rough, that I know they were all stressed, that it was awful for me to listen to her talk to her kids that way, and that in the past, it was very helpful for me to talk to my kids in the same way I'd want someone else to talk to them.

 

But what SHOULD I say? I'm still shocked. She's a good worker, pleasant, having a rough time. I don't need to alienate her. I would not say that her kids are in danger, but it was awful.

 

Thoughts?

[abbeyej]

I'm so sorry. Honestly, it sounds like you already know how to handle this when/if it comes up. But I completely sympathize with the nausea you felt witnessing her treat her children like that. Yes, it sounds like the stressors in her life are just huge, and her "snapping" is understandable. Understandable, but not excusable.

 

And it sounds like you're prepared to respond gently, sympathetically, but honestly about what you saw. I think that's all you *can* do. If you can think of any practical ways to make her life simpler (just little things -- "Hey, I made muffins last night and it's just more than my family can eat, so I brought you a dozen. I love having them around as an easy breakfast/snack for the kids"), then that would be great too. Just knowing someone has thought of her and her kids, that you don't hate her or think she's a horrible mother because she lost it, those things could make a real difference to her...

[NorthwestMom]

I completely agree with abbeyej. I think you are prepared to handle it well. That poor woman. What stress she must be under! It's a great reminder for the rest of us, who don't know the back story, not to judge others who are losing it in public.

[MariannNOVA]

:iagree:

[Mom-ninja.]

When you talk to her, ask if she has someone to watch the kids so she can have decompression time. She is after all also growing a new person as well as taking care of her older children. It sounds like she could use lots of help.

[Joanne]

She brought her kids (1 and 5) in last night to use a typewriter. The kids had been in daycare all day and I know they were tired. I know she's stressed, I know her kids are feeling it too. Mom snapped. Not only was she yelling at them, horribly, repeatedly, but she also slapped them at least twice. "I told you to sit over there," "Don't bug me right now!" it just went on and on, for 40 mins. I was almost sick to my stomach listening to her. It was shocking, nasty, ugly.

 

Some of my worst parenting moments happened under similar levels of stress. And I am a parenting teacher!

 

I'd approach her with empathy, if you can. Empathy can be direct and honest but when it's delivered with authenticity, it is better recieved. "Hon, I know you are struggling. I remember when {fill in the blank with hard time} and my parenting suffered {give example}. I'd like to help you make this better for your kids."

 

Do you think she knows she was abusive? (She might not, I'm not trying to be snarky, really!)

[Mommyof4ks]

Is there anything that the kids can do while mom works so they are not bothering her? Kids get bored so quickly and start in bugging mom.

 

If there is anything you can do to help her relieve some stress, even just a listening ear may help her.

[TracyR]

My question to you since you know her well enough is : While you were watching her struggle would you have been able to instead of watch her struggle and have had a moment to help her so she could finish? I think to many times we stand back and not speak up and help. Then people in the end are put into instances that they'd rather not be in. Would there have been something there you could of given the kids so they would of sat for a few minutes, like a coloring book or books to read, toys, etc?

 

If you know she is having a hard time right now why not offer to take her kids for an afternoon, or make a dinner? From personal experience in life when people are dealing with tough times they don't stop and ask for help. I remember when my youngest daughter was born. We dealt with hospitalizations, trips to the Children's hospitals, Shriners,..etc. Her first couple of years was nothing but medical stuff. Not once did anyone stop and say" Hey, we're going to take your other three children for you so they can get away for a little bit. Not once did any of our so called friends just make a dinner and bring it over. People would say to us " If you need any help with anything let us know." That I have learned is the WORST thing you can say to someone during turbulant times.

Just tell her that you want to make dinner for her one night , or take her other kids so she can at least sit in the tub and decompress for a little bit, or sit and talk and be her listening ear. I can tell you she really needs that right now and it seems that no one in her life is stepping in to help. If you see her struggling , just step in and help. Don't wait for someone to ask because they won't.

 

I know this is one aspect that I am teaching my daughters. Just tell someone you are going to do something nice for them when they are in need of it. We need more people like this in the world.

[justamouse]

I completely agree with abbeyej. I think you are prepared to handle it well. That poor woman. What stress she must be under! It's a great reminder for the rest of us, who don't know the back story, not to judge others who are losing it in public.

 

 

How true. Just give her a shoulder. I'm sure she doesn't WANT to be that way with the kids, but that is some serious stress.

[Sparkle]

I'm sorry. :grouphug: That hurts my heart to read about. Honestly, I used to be just about that bad with my boys when they were little. Thank goodness I woke up and did a 180. I'm sure she feels terrible. Can you give her a hand or offer to listen to her? Also, maybe you can point her to the Gentle Christian Mothers website. I've found it to be immensely helpful.

[Catherine]

Offer to help her. She's obviously in need of it, probably more than anything you could possibly say.

[lgm]

Usually our librarian will intervene if a mom snaps...gentle reminder that we don't yell in the library, and would it be allright if the patron's children come with her for a few minutes to borrow some of the toys and puzzles from the children's section ? She'll actually escort the children to pick out something and bring them back , which gives mom a chance to cool off.

 

If there is a workstation in the children's area sometimes it works better to bend the rules and let the mama use it.

[sadiegirl]

I think all mothers have had one of those moments...stress, frustration except I have been lucky the time or two has been in our house.

Be there for her by encouraging her...I know from being with my boys 24/7 that having a break from being with them can make a difference.

I joined a women's bible study and that time away makes a big difference. We all appreciate each other more and it is good for us all.

Is there someone that could take the kids aside and read with them or could they play on a computer near by?

[emmsmama]

I know the situation is over, but if it ever comes up again, with her or with any other parent, you could try intervene in as non-confrontational of a way as possible. For example, I was at a hs'ing get-together one time and there were two kids arguing over a toy train. The one parent was calmy trying to diffuse the situation and the other was pretty much berating her son for wanting the train and imo just really having a rough time dealing with the situation. I could tell that other people in the room were uncomfortable as well with what was happening. I went over and asked the little boy if he wanted to come upstairs with me and see if we could find another train or maybe a cool car. It completely diffused the situation and gave mom a chance to cool off and see how else the situation could have been handled.

 

I wouldn't jump in in the same way with a child I didn't know or if the parent didn't know me, but you knew the mom so it wouldn't be like a stranger coming in to try to walk off with her children. If it was someone I didn't know in the library who was verbally assaulting her kids or being physical with them, I'd likely just grab a book off the shelf and ask if they had read that one yet, or something else to break the tension a bit hopefully and put the focus elsewhere; maybe get a colouring page and some crayons for the child to use.

 

I normally wouldn't jump into someone else's parenting situation, but in the case you described, I wouldn't be able to just sit back and watch. One time I was in the grocery store and a mom was berating her child and I just threw a smile his way to hopefully give him a little bit of a buoy in a rough situation. You have to judge the situation and that's difficult. If it's a parent with a child having a tantrum, I usually throw a supportive glance the parent's way because they are the one that needs the buoy in that situation.

 

With this mom it might be very important to let her know that her kids were acting normally and she doesn't need to be embarrassed about their behavior, and also that every parent has rough moments and give her some suggestions for the future if she's in that type of situation again (ex. get the kids colouring pages, pull a book off the shelf, ask them to help her with a job, or ask for help so she can walk away and cool off). Maybe she doesn't have a lot of parenting trick to pull out of her hat and needs some guidance in that area.

 

I know that with dh and I, if we feel the other is losing their cool or dealing with a situation poorly, we will often just gently touch the arm of the parent who needs help and that is our signal that we should re-evaluate how we are dealing with something and/or step back from the situation to cool off. It helps us not have to disagree on parenting in front of the kids, but also diffuse a situation when needed. I'm not saying to go touch the arms of strangers or other adults you aren't really close to, but just saying that everybody sometimes needs a little help to deal with a situation and I really appreciate it when dh helps me, in a kind way, to be a better parent.

Edited August 15, 2009 by emmsmama

[Tree House Academy]

If yelling at your kids to "sit over there" and "not bother me right now, I am busy" are abusive, then I am in trouble. If she wasn't cursing at them and yelling obscenities and grabbing them up and jerking them around, then really, it seems like she just a had a "pressure cooker" moment. We all having them occasionally. We all say ugly things occasionally (okay, maybe some are "perfect" but I am sure not!). It happens. Honestly, I wouldn't say anything to her about it. Most likely, she felt that she needed to react this way to her kids or the people around her would think she had lost control of them and couldnt' handle them. There have been times that my older son has embarassed me with the way he spoke to me or treated me and part of that embarassment came from the stares of people around me. Had I done nothing, I am sure there would have been comments about that too.

 

Bottom line, unless she was honestly ABUSING the children (and I think that verbal abuse would come in the form of insults to the kids like "you are being an idiot" or something that is self-esteem crushing...not from things like "I told you to sit over there"), it is really something I would leave alone. It is possible that she is a WONDERFUL and patient mother most of the time. We all have bad days/moments. Just my 2 cents, for what it is worth.

 

If the issue was her yelling in a library, I would have calmly taken her aside and reminded her that she is in the library. I may have also asked if I could take the kids and help them look for a book, etc for a few minutes so she felt like they were taken care of and she could recooperate for a few minutes.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Tree House Academy

[HayesW]

I had a really really bad day once. I had not slept at all the night before. I was 40 weeks pregnant. I spent the night of no sleep thinking I was in early labor. During services on Sunday morning, my then 5yo son was just bad. He was pushing me right to the very limit of love. At once point, I grabbed him by his hair to stop him from gyrating.

 

4 weeks later, I sat on a pew afters ervices. I was holding my 2 week old baby. A woman who sits 4 pews behind us came up to me. She told me I was mean to my children, that she had seen it before a couple of times and mentioned the one incident I described above.

 

I was devastated. and then I was furious. This is a woman who has 2 grown children. What I needed most was support and caring, and instead I was called a bad mom.

 

Instead of "calling her out" because she knows better than you what she did wrong, offer her a hand. The next time she comes in, ask her if you can take the kids for a quick walk. Maybe sit and read them a book. From a mother who has been on the other side and still has hard feelings about it, please be gentle.

[katilac]

I would offer as much sympathy and understanding as I could muster. imo, there's no point in telling her that it was hard to listen to and that she should speak to them the way she wants to be spoken to - - if she's upset and embarrassed about it, she knows that.

 

Many people do hit and/or spank their children. I can think it's awful all day long, but slaps or other hits that don't leave marks are generally allowed by law.

 

You say that she is working through a social services program, so I assume that she is having to fulfill various requirements, perhaps fill out interest surveys, job applications and such? We can say again and again that you can't expect young children to stand by quietly while you get this done, but look at it from her point of view: she likely has to get it done, or she doesn't get whatever help this program offers. Yelling at the kids, even giving them a smack, might be the lesser of two evils.

 

If I felt a responsibility to do something, I would consider what practical help I was willing and able to offer her. I don't think you have to do anything, but if you aren't able to offer concrete assistance, I'd simply accept her apology if she offers one, and enforce any relevant rules (like not shouting, etc).

[Reya]

The only reason to yell at kids for 40 minutes (??!!) is if they are not listening. I've yelled at my oldest before, never for anywhere close to that long or not nearly that many times. Yes, yelling's a problem, but the underlying problem is the expectation of yelling and the lack of respect that the kids have for the parent. If a child isn't obeying and the first "yell" doesn't solve it, and the next three don't, either....what are you doing?

 

She need support on how to get a relationship of loving obedience with her kids. I'm sure she already knows she yells too much! If she brings it up, I'd tentatively offer to give her constructive discipline suggestions to prevent those kinds of painful, no-win situations in the future.