homeschooling a strong willed boy

[Doodle]

How do you manage?? :confused: Sometimes I have cooperation issues. Doodle doesn't always like to participate in the lesson/activity as planned. He frequentlty wants to "rewrite" the plan. It often feels like a battle of wills. Doodle doesn't like to be led. He wants to lead.

[Julie in Austin]

I have one like that!

 

I had to figure out ways to trick him into thinking that he was leading: "Do you want to do math or handwriting first?" "Do you want to do your piano now, or five more minutes of Legos and then piano?"

[Imprimis]

I have one like that!

 

I had to figure out ways to trick him into thinking that he was leading: "Do you want to do math or handwriting first?" "Do you want to do your piano now, or five more minutes of Legos and then piano?"

 

Yes, I agree with this! I frequently give my son a choice of acceptable options. Most of the time, it works.

[Doodle]

I often give Doodle a choice between A or B. He will select option C and define for me what that is. What do you do then?? Just restate the choice and remain strong?

[eternalknot]

How old is your boy? Mine is 8.

 

I write out a daily (school) plan for my strongwilled boy. I let him know the times I will be available (for the teacher-intensive subjects) and then leave it up to him to schedule the rest of his school day around that. So, I'll let him know what subjects we'll be covering that day (and how we'll be covering them) and it's up to him to do them in any order he chooses to.

 

I also let him start the morning with some free time. He reads or plays legos or whatever while I fix morning meal. We ease into our schoolday once bellies are filled and morning grouchies have faded. We don't have a set time that we wake up or that school starts, so that helps indirectly - we're not setting the tone for the day with a struggle, you know?

[Julie in Austin]

In that case, I would say, very calmly, "You can choose from A or B. If you choose C, then you will [lose this privilege, usually TV time or fun outing]." Very calm, no emotion, as if you don't care what he picks.

 

It was a long, hard road for me to learn this. My instinct was to say, "Young man, I am your mother and you WILL choose A or B right now!"

 

And guess what? He cared more about proving he could choose C than he did about any punishment I could levy on him. It was a frustrating couple of years! But when I refused to engage in power struggles, he eventually lost interest in them, too.

 

He turned 8 last week and is now my easiest-going, best-behaved child. But I happily would have sold him to any passing stranger for a wooden nickel when he was 3-5. (Did I just say that in public? :001_huh: ) Joking, of course, but he was some kind of difficult.

[eternalknot]

I often give Doodle a choice between A or B. He will select option C and define for me what that is. What do you do then?? Just restate the choice and remain strong?

 

Is option C an unreasonable option? If yes, say so. If no, consider it :D then decide yes or no, but at least seriously consider it.

 

My kids know that I will genuinely consider their Option C requests. Sometimes I say sure, why not - even if option C makes more work for me, or otherwise alters my plans. Sometimes I say nope, not this time - we're sticking to A or B and you have five minutes before you lose the privilege of choosing because we have GOT to get the show on the road.

 

My parents did this with us. It removed some of the need for us to BE so stubborn, because we softened up when we felt that we were genuinely being respected and listened to (after all, we were SO MUCH SMARTER than they were :tongue_smilie::lol:). I don't think it would have been as effective for them to just keep holding down the fort with choices A and B. It would have probably encouraged us to be even more strongwilled because it wouldn't address the real issue: I'm my own person with my own ideas and I think I know everything. My parents had to empower us a bit for us to realize we weren't the hotshots we thought we were.

[Doodle]

In that case, I would say, very calmly, "You can choose from A or B. If you choose C, then you will [lose this privilege, usually TV time or fun outing]." Very calm, no emotion, as if you don't care what he picks.

 

It was a long, hard road for me to learn this. My instinct was to say, "Young man, I am your mother and you WILL choose A or B right now!"

 

And guess what? He cared more about proving he could choose C than he did about any punishment I could levy on him. It was a frustrating couple of years! But when I refused to engage in power struggles, he eventually lost interest in them, too.

 

He turned 8 last week and is now my easiest-going, best-behaved child. But I happily would have sold him to any passing stranger for a wooden nickel when he was 3-5. (Did I just say that in public? :001_huh: ) Joking, of course, but he was some kind of difficult.

 

:lol: Thanks so much for this advice! I think I need to remain firm and unemotional.

[Doodle]

...Is option C an unreasonable option? If yes, say so. If no, consider it :D then decide yes or no, but at least seriously consider it...

 

 

I often consider and do option C. It just seems as though more and more C answers are all I get. I don't think he is trying to be difficult, but it sure is exhausting.

[elegantlion]

Strong willed boys can grow up to be men of great conviction. I try to keep that in mind with my ds. I read this book Strong willed child or Dreamer and it totally changed some of my approaches with my ds.

 

I have an only and so we can add some flexibility into our schedule. There are days when i do let ds have option C. I try to plan ahead which subjects need to stay on track and which have more leeway.

 

I sometimes think my child was born to negotiate everything. We do a lot of talking through things and I know when I have a goal and purpose in mind for each subject it helps me stay more calm about those kind of moments.

[Doodle]

 

...I sometimes think my child was born to negotiate everything...

 

YES! This is Doodle! He is also an only child which is why I can often accomodate option C. I was just worried now that we will "officially" be starting homeschooling and feared it would create havoc in trying to get through the subjects in a timely and organized fashion. For example, Math needs to be done one lesson at a time, in order. I can't see many C options there.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Doodle, LOL, I have much less hair now, a sore throat, and broken teeth. But I survived :)

 

I'm only partly kidding.

 

*I* wouldn't allow picking option C even if reasonable because you will continue getting C options for EVERYTHING. Some kids just absolutely do anything to be in charge. IRL, there will be times they can't be in charge and the consequences are too dire to let them think otherwise.

 

I write out a list and ds marks off what he does. He can choose just about anything on the list in any order. This gives him a hundred different combinations of choice.

 

Another way for an option C is to simply say, "I think math or spelling would be good, but which class would you rather do right now?"

 

Now, I do allow choices like physical labor as I know that sometimes boys like these need that.

 

Another thing I really like is to give a good "wrap your head around it" time. It might be, "Son, by 9am, you need to be sitting at the table having started your work." Say that at 8:45. That gives him a full 15 minutes to decide to comply. He might do it at 8:47 or at 8:59, but he usually would do it in time.

 

It sometimes helps to have logical POSITIVE consequences built-in. The positive (walk, read a book, play video game, etc) always happens, but it happens once the responsibility is handled. We take a daily walk, for example, but it is "about 10am." XY and Z must be completed and then we can take the walk. We'll take it early if they'd like and are ready. We'll have to wait a few extra minutes if they need time to finish up the work required.

 

HTHs a little,

[Cedarmom]

One thing that helped me was to know what my goals and purpose were. If his option C fit my goals, I might let him do it(also depending on how he asked). If not, I would do as the other poster suggested and tell him he could choose A or B, or let me choose.

[Brooke3193]

My strong-willed child is the one who I will begin hs-ing in a few weeks. A year ago, I would have said that hs-ing her would never work...to many battles. I have said so many things I see in this thread...."t's exhausting....she always presents option C....born to negotiate everything...."

 

Now, I am looking forward to spending more time with her by hs-ing her. A lot of things have changed. We figured out that, while always strong-willed, the negative aspects of that are magnified when she doesn't have enough sleep or is late for eating a meal. But, it also helped me to read "Raising Your Spirited Child" by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka. Actually, I've only listened to the audio book. I am no expert on it so I can't really explain it, but the book was awesome for changing my perspective and giving me some strategies.

 

One specific strategy I use is to give her a time limit. (This is a common need of spirited kids.) I often count to 20 for her to get her pjs on, for example. It's not done in a threatening way. It's more of a game/race/challenge. If I count, she understands there is a time limit. If I don't count, it takes her a half hour to brush her teeth.

[Peela]

Oh my 13yo is still like that and I have homeschooled him for 6 years now. He tries to re-negotiate everything.

Sometimes I will change my plan if what he is saying seems reasonable. But not usually. I try not to be a pushover, but I also try to be human and he just seems to need a lot of attention and one on one- always has. I reassure him, I cajole him, I encourage him. He always says "its too much" and I tend to say "you can do it", and he does, but then he says it again next time.

I dont have any solutions other than make sure you get an afternoon rest time to recover!

[Doodle]

...*I* wouldn't allow picking option C even if reasonable because you will continue getting C options for EVERYTHING. Some kids just absolutely do anything to be in charge. IRL, there will be times they can't be in charge and the consequences are too dire to let them think otherwise.

 

I write out a list and ds marks off what he does. He can choose just about anything on the list in any order. This gives him a hundred different combinations of choice...

 

I do think that allowing C options previously have contributed to getting them at the time now. The list idea would probably work for my boy. I'll give that a try once we start classes.

 

 

 

Now, I do allow choices like physical labor as I know that sometimes boys like these need that.

 

Can you explain further? Do you include physical activities with you school lessons?

 

 

It sometimes helps to have logical POSITIVE consequences built-in. The positive (walk, read a book, play video game, etc) always happens, but it happens once the responsibility is handled. We take a daily walk, for example, but it is "about 10am." XY and Z must be completed and then we can take the walk. We'll take it early if they'd like and are ready. We'll have to wait a few extra minutes if they need time to finish up the work required.

 

What would your reaction be if he didn't meet the time requirement?? When you do say "Sorry, no walk?" Sometimes Doodle will take forever to get his teeth brushed and pajamas on. Then he still wants a "bed-night" story. If he hasn't complied with the time frame given for getting ready for bed, do I deny him the story. I feel mean doing so, but otherwise he won't learn, will he?

[Chris in VA]

I agree with the poster who said that if you continually allow option C, he will go there more often. I think it's in the phrasing, however, and here's how I'd do it--

If you say, "A or B, or you can tell me your idea and I will listen and decide," you have given him 3 options, and they are all your options, even tho you are allowing input into the third option. Therefore, you still have authority. Does that make sense? There's nothing to rebel against. Now, you have to be firm if C is something you don't want--say no sweetly, and enforce A or B. If he fusses unduly (allow him to express the feelings, but not act out), or refuses, figure out a consequence in advance that he is aware of. Maybe, next time I choose, not you. Then we try again. Or, go to your room, or do an extra chore, or miss out on the special something later. Whatever.

 

You have to get comfortable with your own discomfort when he is not pleased. I no longer believe in placating my children to avoid conflict--it results in continual dissatisfaction, pushed boundaries, and kids in charge of the family, which is not what anyone wants, even if it seems easier.

 

I also think getting kids to be aware of their own feelings when they are trying to take charge is really helpful. "Are you feeling revved up and tight inside?" Often conflicts can be resolved if we can get the child "unstuck."

[Chris in VA]

What would your reaction be if he didn't meet the time requirement?? When you do say "Sorry, no walk?" Sometimes Doodle will take forever to get his teeth brushed and pajamas on. Then he still wants a "bed-night" story. If he hasn't complied with the time frame given for getting ready for bed, do I deny him the story. I feel mean doing so, but otherwise he won't learn, will he?

 

 

For this, I set a timer. It removes you from being the one to say time's up.

And yes, you sweetly say, "No story tonight because you didn't finish before the timer went off. You can try again tomorrow." Always letting them know they can try again is very motivating, I think. So, I'd give big hugs, do whatever else you do at bedtime, and then that's it until tomorrow. You don't have to hover or remind the next night, either--just let the timer do the work and remove yourself from the situation.

[Danestress]

In general, I am a fan of choices. I think they allow children to exercise control over their own environment and reduce conflict. I thinks it's generally a good idea to let children have as much control and decision making power as they are able to handle well, and the older the child, the wider his "realm" of decision making.

 

HOWEVER, I also think children need to practice obedience. It's really tough to homeschool a child who thinks everything is a choice. I would balance all those choices with some things that are simply required and required to be done when you say. I would have those things be small at first. Pick up your shoes, put them outside. No, not later. Now.

 

You haven't said how old your child is, but if you are having obedience issues and he's under 7 or so, I would really delay academics while I worked on household routines, obedience, and developing our relationship in ways that are active and fun, but also in ways that allow him to enjoy the privilege of having a mother who is the boss.

[Chris in VA]

Well-said.

[Moni]

Set him up to work independently of you.

The assignment list can be done together but can also always be done independently.

 

Or offer some choices too.

You can read one of these three books for Science and then write about it.

You can read one of these two books for History and then write about it.

You can read any of these 5 history/science books and then write about it.

You can write about what you read today or tomorrow.

 

I also explained sometimes you read just to read.

Other times you read and we discuss

Other times you read and write about it.

 

And I would be clear about which I was requiring, if I was requiring.

If I offered write today or tomorrow, then I'd be sure to state I accept his choice today and reiterate tomorrow would be writing, and about which topic, if I needed to assign that.

 

For instance, perhaps for 2 weeks the student "wrote about science reading."

Well, I would want some "write about history reading" done, so I'd make the Executive Decision and Executive Announcement that time after next, he would read/write on his history reading. No choices.

 

So I allowed choices when possible, but also let him know that some things were not up for discussion.

Sometimes I'd remind this Daily, even on a student choice day.

:seeya:

Edited July 28, 2009 by Moni

[skaterbabs]

1. Read Mary Sheedy Kurcinka's books "Raising Your Spirited Child" and "Kids, Parents & Power Struggles."

 

2. We find that "do-the-next-thing" curricula is MUCH better because it's NOT Mom telling them what to do, the program itself tells them what to do next.

Edited July 28, 2009 by skaterbabs

[myfunnybunch]

I often give Doodle a choice between A or B. He will select option C and define for me what that is. What do you do then?? Just restate the choice and remain strong?

 

Depends. Is option C reasonable? Is it "I'd rather start with science instead of math or reading," or is it, "I want to watch tv until my eyeballs pop out then eat cookies until I puke," or somewhere in between?

 

I've found that often I can reason my guy into choosing a reasonable option. I still retain my authority as a parent. I won't dicker, I won't go through endless negotiations. But this particular child seems to need to have his voice and ideas heard. Things go much more smoothly if we both feel that we're being listened to and respected, and it's good practice for problem- and conflict-solving when he's a strong-willed adult.

 

I like Chris in VA's post about phrasing option C. It's very much like what we do in our home.

 

Cat

Edited July 28, 2009 by myfunnybunch

[skaterbabs]

We practice "option C" frequently with Dot. If it doesn't cause trouble, sure, you can ______ instead of _____. When it's no longer convienent for mom, the answer will be "no." Sure, we do tend to get a little more of the "I can negotiate my way out of this" on occasion, but she knows that if I decide NO, then no it is.

[BMW]

I read many replies, but not all...

 

I have to say that while they are young, I think they should be taught to accept being told what they are to do, without negotiation. Save negotiating for later years... one of my sons was continuing to buck the system... always changing a and b for c. It was affecting his grades in public school because if the teacher specifically said "put the title at the top, put the illustration in the middle and a sentence at the bottom" AND the instructions were written in front of him, he'd switch it around on purpose to be "different" and, I believe, to simple disobey. Some days my boy would wake up and you saw in his eyes it was one of those days where "no one is going to tell me what to do" ran through his head. For months now when he switches it up... changes what he is told... etc., he does it completely over. I want him to know how to simply follow directions and obey. I mean, really, how will it serve him if he tells an officer, "Well, I know that there were double lines back there, but I thought I'd just cross so that _________" or some other such thing. In life, we do have to follow rules.

 

That said, I agree that there are times to let them negotiate and have creativity. That is where perhaps the child decides what order to do things... Pick some areas that you are not going to involve instruction and plan on those being his creative areas... perhaps a morning or evening routine... perhaps his choices on meals a few days a week... or him being able to choose his own clothing at a store (depending on your level of comfort with what a store has to offer!!).