Math for fast learner..advice?

[MissKNG]

Background: My dd will start PreK/K this coming September and she will almost be 3.5. She learns quickly and gets bored with repetition - we believe she's moderately gifted...nothing off the charts. Right now, we are going through Beginning Mathematical Reasoning (3 and 4 year olds) and she is breezing through - she actually told me she was "bored" at one point (that is when I stopped all the repeat exercises after she "got it").

 

I bought RightStart Math to use but am wary of the way it's taught. I'm worried I won't be able to get used to it myself in order to teach her effectively.

 

So I've been looking at other curriculum. I was wondering what everyone else thinks in regards to RS and other curriculum.

 

I think Saxon will be too slow. I'm also looking at Horizons and Singapore early bird. Someone suggested Miquon but that is a 1st grade math.

 

Should I stick with RS or purchase something else? If we start RS and it doesn't work, how easy is it to transition to something else? Plus if it doesn't work, I guess I'll need a back up - which is another reason that I'm looking for feedback on other curriculum.

 

THANKS!

[EKS]

I think the RightStart is an excellent curriculum for young math students and I would recommend it over Early Bird. RightStart transitions well into Singapore later on.

[skaterbabs]

We're using CLE for Dot. She's blowing through it really quickly, but the material is solid and we can skip a lot of the drill and yet she's still getting plenty of new material to challenge her. She does do between two and four lessons in a given day. We're going to suppliment the CLE with some problem solving and logic types of things, possibly MEP or Miquon.

 

Right Start was not an option for us due to the cost.

[Truscifi]

I don't know much about Right Start, but I used Saxon last year, and it was much too slow! We are using Singapore this year. I have looked through it and it looks much better, with a lot less repetition.

[purplecow7]

I started my kids on singapore early bird when they were 4. I would skip early bird and go straight to 1a. It does teach some concepts like more and less. I only bought the workbooks so I missed some of the explinations from the text and I could not figure it out. I thought my $ store books and target workbooks were better then early bird. However, I really like 1a and the price is right. Now I have twins, so my dd loves work books and sat right down and started filling in the numbers. My ds not so much. What I did for him was at first I had him just tell me the answer and I wrote it down, then we moved to him doing every other page and now at 5 he is doing all the writing. He still needs help with the reading so I sit with him. My 5 year dd reads and does the problem mostly by herself. The twins are #3 and #4 children. One last thing..just because she is going in prek/k I would look at more at first grade programs then kindergarten ones.

 

Oh and don't write off the whole gifted thing yet. My oldest just did things above the curve. Since he was my first we just thought it was all with in the normal range. He also went to a daycare where there were other kids who like him read early, did math early and thought of interesting things like him. Then in first grade we enter PS and what we thought was normal turned out not to be. He came home crying because he got in trouble for looking through the math book. Then he came home crying because the math was going so slow. We ended up enrolling him into EPGY in first grade - I recommend this program as well, but they should be able to use the computer. It is also very expensive. For math I always found my children wanted more and more and I would just give it too them. They had to go beyond their math fact skills to get to cool problems and when they learned that it took them longer to do the problems because they did not know their facts. They went back and learned them. Multiplication unplugged is my favorite music CD for this. My second dd loves music so this is how she learned her multiplication facts when she was 7. Oh and she can count by 2,3,4,5,and 6 as well. Also doing math facts in the car is helpful for those kids who hate repitition in worksheets.

 

I would also go to Hoagies gifted website - they have some cool math games like blokus all my children started playing when they were around 4. Also you might find that your child is more gifted then you think. :)

Edited July 23, 2009 by purplecow7
forgot to add

[MissKNG]

Singapoore users - What Singapore edition are you using? Standards or US edition? All that choice confuses me!

 

Skaterbabs- What is CLE?

[Mandy in TN]

Singapore US edition

 

CLE= Christian Light Education

 

HTH-

Mandy

[MissKNG]

Thanks! The difference I gathered from the site is that the Standards has a few more concepts and moves a bit faster than the US Edition...is that accurate? Just seems odd that the US Edition wouldn't be the more challenging one or at least AS challenging.

[EKS]

We were using the US edition but just switched over to the standards edition. My son really prefers color in the textbook and the standards has it all the way through (the US edition only has color in levels 1 and 2).

[Storm Bay]

RightStart was far too teacher intensive for us. We like Singapore Math, as well as MEP.

 

When it comes to academics at 3.5, I'll give you the same advice I give parents who want to start their dc with piano lessons before the age of 6 (or being ready to read.) I tell them that the only way I'll teach a very young child piano lessons is if they're going to the piano all by themselves every day and "practising" or even picking out tunes. Unless a child is gifted in music, they'll all catch up at a certain age if they start at 3 or 4 or at 7.

 

Now, with academics, I think that gifted dc who aren't interested in academics at 3.5 will do just fine. In fact, I come from a family just like that. It hasn't stopped any of them from accomplishing wonderful things, even if they're not the kinds of things that make them household names (although my sister was asked by all but one of her biochem professors if she was related to my uncle--he was a big name in those circles ;))

 

I really didn't do a math program with my dc at 3.5, although they're all mathy. Yes, a gifted dc needs to be stimulated, but I would only do a math program at that age if that's what your dc wants to do, not if she's bored. There are many fun ways to do math with games and activities that are far less boring to a child that age.

 

That said, I would choose SM over RS any day due to the heuristics of SM and the fact that it is less teacher intensive. In fact, by waiting to do math programs until my dc were 5 or 6 I was able to just show them what to do once or twice and they just got it. Quick and painless. That changed if something came up that they couldn't get that quickly (or by just reading the book, which is how my eldest is learning hs math.)

 

OTOH, I have a gifted dd who hated all math until Algebra, but only likes Algebra when she can do it for fun. However, she is 14 so she has to do an academic math program. Same with my 9 yo & 11 yo. Even dragging their feet, they are ready for Algebra by 11.

 

fwiw, I read a post that said that the Standards edition is the one for the CA schools. Is this correct? We usually use the US one for the extra measurements. We have a couple of texts with the Singapore way of doing numbers (no commas between large numbers, just spaces, Singaore money, no US measurements.)

[MissKNG]

Thanks for the advice but I'm not doing this because my dd is bored in general - she IS interested in academics. She WANTS to do math (and school) but is bored with the level she is doing now. Therefore, I'm looking for something more challenging for PreK coming up. Just because she is at a young age and excelling in math doesn't mean I'm going to put that on hold just so she can get to a more "acceptable" teaching age. Why would I stop the learning that she loves to do just because she's so young? She loves workbooks, she loves seatwork, she loves the structure! I don't know why this is so hard to believe!! LOL! It's normal to me!

 

With that said, thanks for the advice on Singapore. I'm really considering it over RS right now.

[Capt_Uhura]

WEll if you're worried about your ability to teach RS, I don't think Singapore will be much better unless you buy the HIGs. I did RS with two advanced boys and it worked well especially for my 2nd son whom I started in RS level A at 4yrs old. It was perfect for him. He completed it in about 4-5months. He went to PS for K so that slowed him way down b/c he was too tired in the afternoon but at 6yrs old is fourth through RS Level C. I initially chose RS over SM b/c from the looks of just the textbooks of SM, I wasn't confidant I could teach it properly as I wasn't taught math that way. That's why I chose RS. Now, from what I know from teaching RS levels A,B,C,D,andE, I could teach SM easily w/out the HIGs even. I don't think you can go wrong with either.

 

One caveat is that SM is easier to compact than RS. RS, the way the program is written, you don't realize what things are in preparation for a later topic so it's hard to skip around. WHereas in SM, it's easy to jump around. SOme don't like in SM that you do 2 digit addition in SM1a/b, then 3 digits in 2a/b etc and will combine all the addition units for example similar to how RS goes up to 4 digit addition in level A or level B if that's your entry point.

[MissKNG]

WEll if you're worried about your ability to teach RS, I don't think Singapore will be much better unless you buy the HIGs. I did RS with two advanced boys and it worked well especially for my 2nd son whom I started in RS level A at 4yrs old. It was perfect for him. He completed it in about 4-5months. He went to PS for K so that slowed him way down b/c he was too tired in the afternoon but at 6yrs old is fourth through RS Level C. I initially chose RS over SM b/c from the looks of just the textbooks of SM, I wasn't confidant I could teach it properly as I wasn't taught math that way. That's why I chose RS. Now, from what I know from teaching RS levels A,B,C,D,andE, I could teach SM easily w/out the HIGs even. I don't think you can go wrong with either.

 

One caveat is that SM is easier to compact than RS. RS, the way the program is written, you don't realize what things are in preparation for a later topic so it's hard to skip around. WHereas in SM, it's easy to jump around. SOme don't like in SM that you do 2 digit addition in SM1a/b, then 3 digits in 2a/b etc and will combine all the addition units for example similar to how RS goes up to 4 digit addition in level A or level B if that's your entry point.

 

What are HIGs? I'm not up on the lingo yet!:tongue_smilie:

[JenneinCA]

I can tell you what I am doing for my youngest. He is newly five (in May) and his math ability exceeds his writing ability so we have ditched the workbooks in favor of Mommy Math.

 

I found the Scope and Sequence charts for a math program that I liked (Horizons Math) and printed them. Then I figured out which things he already knew and which ones he didn't. And now we spend 15-20 minutes working on the items on the list that he needs to learn using the manipulatives that I have in the house.

 

Today we wrote the numbers 1 to 10 on a piece of paper. We counted to 100 by 1, 5, and 10. We worked on identifying coins and their values. We worked on learning the months of the year. And then played with our Frogs on Logs to make numbers. (These are Funtastic Frogs that sit on brown plastic logs. Ten to a log. We worked on making 23 using 2 logs and 3 loose frogs. And then other numbers.) And a run through of the addition flash cards, we are part way through the +3.

 

This doesn't sound particularly advanced to me, but according to most math books this is advanced. This is definitely Mommy and Kid time. The only part he can do without my help is the writing of numbers at the beginning. I felt this was the best compromise to the insane amounts of writing and repetition in many math books.

[EKS]

I felt this was the best compromise to the insane amounts of writing and repetition in many math books.

 

I dealt with the writing issue by having my son do the problems orally with me writing the answers in the workbook. At about age 6.75 I had him complete all workbook pages himself (this is in the Singapore workbooks).

[SunshineMom]

I would suggest Singapore Math if you are wanting a workbook. There is an online assessment test so you can gauge what book would be the best fit. I remember at this age doing a lot of Mommy Math too. There are many fun math games available.

[Storm Bay]

Thanks for the advice but I'm not doing this because my dd is bored in general - she IS interested in academics. She WANTS to do math (and school) but is bored with the level she is doing now. .

 

 

Excellent. I wasn't totally sure based on your OP. Then I second the other poster's suggestion to do the Singapore Math placement test and go from there. Some dc will go through pages and pages a day, too, and that's okay, as long as they're retaining it. You may wish to add Intensive Practice You may or may not find at some point down the road that she hits a wall; this varies with the gifted dc due to many factors. There are some dc who can get through all of hs math at a young age (there's at least one parent on this forum with a dd who started college at 12), and there are some who will reach a point where they've done everything up to Algebra but aren't ready for it yet, so you find other challenging math to do in the meantime. I have one I'm doing this with due to maturity issues. She's doing a Russian Math which is harder in many areas than SM 6, and she started it just after. But then she'll start LoF Algebra because it's fun. I make them all do Algebra 1 twice because I find that they do better with the theory, thinking & logic behind it when they're older. I want them to do more than plug in the numbers Algebra. Actually, LoF does teach thinking behind it, but I have another program I want them to do afterward because I think it's such a great thing for Algebra study.

[MissKNG]

Excellent. I wasn't totally sure based on your OP.

 

 

Ok, I hope I didn't come across as a jerk with my response. I get a "lecture" about doing school with my dd since she is so young often. Like I said, she loves workbooks, seat work and structure and apparently, that must not be normal! :001_huh:

 

I did go ahead and buy Earlybird B for her. I didn't do the placement test because based on the units they listed for A and B (and the worksheets samples I've found around the net), I could easily place her myself.

[KristenS]

We've used Horizons with success. It's easy to cross off extra repetition when you want to, and we rarely need the Teacher's Guide.

 

We start the K level in pre-K ... we will see how well that works with my daughter this year. She's not as mathematically inclined as my oldest was (he's flown through them without much instruction from me at all) ... she will likely need a bit more 'teaching' on my part, but I think she can handle it. If not, we'll save it.

 

We do a lot by dictation too when the motor skills aren't up to the workbook level.

[ecmom45]

IF you kid is gifted. RS and Singapore is the way to go. Saxon is too much repetitive. In my opinion, RS is an excellent curriculum for gifted as I do have 2 gifted kids. Not much repetition. Explain concept well, hands on.

[MissKNG]

IF you kid is gifted. RS and Singapore is the way to go. Saxon is too much repetitive. In my opinion, RS is an excellent curriculum for gifted as I do have 2 gifted kids. Not much repetition. Explain concept well, hands on.

 

 

Thanks, I ordered Earlybird B for her to start in Sept!

[Storm Bay]

Ok, I hope I didn't come across as a jerk with my response. I get a "lecture" about doing school with my dd since she is so young often. Like I said, she loves workbooks, seat work and structure and apparently, that must not be normal! :001_huh:

 

I did go ahead and buy Earlybird B for her. I didn't do the placement test because based on the units they listed for A and B (and the worksheets samples I've found around the net), I could easily place her myself.

 

 

No, I suspect you get that a lot. I gave my initial suggestions because there are some people who feel they have to do academics with their gifted preschoolers :). But some gifted dc push nonstop for academics. Mine don't fall into that category, but even though it can be exhausting, I would rather have that than very strong willed gifted dc who vehemently loathe certain academic tasks, such as expository writing ;).

[MissKNG]

No, I suspect you get that a lot. I gave my initial suggestions because there are some people who feel they have to do academics with their gifted preschoolers :). But some gifted dc push nonstop for academics. Mine don't fall into that category, but even though it can be exhausting, I would rather have that than very strong willed gifted dc who vehemently loathe certain academic tasks, such as expository writing ;).

 

Yeah, even though I'm happy she enjoys academic stuff, it does get tiresome and exhausting. Sometimes I don't want to "build words" at 7:30pm or do worksheets at 8pm!

 

My dd is EXACTLY like my father. He would have been a college-lifer if he could have, just taking all sorts of courses and obtaining all sorts of degrees.

[Linzy]

My 3 yo love RS. I got it because he was asking all the mathy questions and I just didn't know how to teach him and didn't want to turn him off math or mess him up. He's a little guy and is still working on learning pencil control so I didn't want anything involving too much writing. Anyway, he loves the abacus, and sleeps with the clock.

 

If you don't mind teacher intensive (which I don't because I love spending time with my buddy and he considers this to be fun play time). It's fun because everyday we go on a "scavenger hunt" for the items needed for the lesson and afterwards I let him choose 1 or 2 math games to play. We play with lots of dramatics especially with the numeracy games (ie eyes closed, back turned) then he gets to be the teacher and teach me and his imaginary students. Honestly although we were planning on moving slowly through the curriculum he begs for lessons daily.

[MusicMouseTN]

Can you clarify for me something, please ... RS = Rainbow Science? or Rod & Staff? Is there a website for Rainbow Science Math stuff I could look at?

[MissKNG]

Can you clarify for me something, please ... RS = Rainbow Science? or Rod & Staff? Is there a website for Rainbow Science Math stuff I could look at?

 

 

RS = RightStart Math

 

:lol:

[MusicMouseTN]

That makes much more sense! Thanks! :)

[skaterbabs]

My fast learner is excelling with CLE, but I'm also sensitive to when I notice there to be more repetition than she needs and she knows that if she's proven to me she has a good grasp on the topic, I won't make her do all of the drill.

 

I think that's where homeschoolers sometimes get caught up (myself included, especially with my boys.) We tend to think that just because there are three pages in a lesson, we have to do all three (or whatever.) There's no rule that says you MUST do all ten problems in a given lesson just because they are there.

[Storm Bay]

RS = RightStart Math

 

:lol:

 

 

Exactly. R&S is Rod & Staff. Not sure about Rainbow Science--I think it gets typed out in full.

[MissKNG]

 

I think that's where homeschoolers sometimes get caught up (myself included, especially with my boys.) We tend to think that just because there are three pages in a lesson, we have to do all three (or whatever.) There's no rule that says you MUST do all ten problems in a given lesson just because they are there.

 

:iagree:

 

I agree because I get caught up with that too. Like I KNOW she can do something but I feel like she needs to complete every page just because the pages are there! That's what was happening with her Beginning Math Reasoning book (CTC) that we are currently working through. She would do 10 pages or so then I noticed she would only do maybe 3 or 4. I asked why and she basically said she was bored because it was too easy. So I skip stuff now.

[skaterbabs]

Exactly! It's a big deal to me that we finish a given text, but that's because I want my money's worth out of the information. ;) I've finally gotten to the point where it doesn't irritate my sense of decorum to skip even entire lessons when the material is all review.

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

My advice: Don't use Saxon for a gifted student. You're right, it's too slow.

 

Take a look at Math Mammoth, too. I've read it's very similar to Singapore. You can get a sample pack and read lots of reviews on their site. I'm using 2nd grade with my 5-1/2 year old, and so far it is just what we needed.

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

Thanks for the advice but I'm not doing this because my dd is bored in general - she IS interested in academics. She WANTS to do math (and school) but is bored with the level she is doing now. Therefore, I'm looking for something more challenging for PreK coming up. Just because she is at a young age and excelling in math doesn't mean I'm going to put that on hold just so she can get to a more "acceptable" teaching age. Why would I stop the learning that she loves to do just because she's so young? She loves workbooks, she loves seatwork, she loves the structure! I don't know why this is so hard to believe!! LOL! It's normal to me!

 

 

 

I think you just described my 5 year old!

[MissKNG]

My advice: Don't use Saxon for a gifted student. You're right, it's too slow.

 

Take a look at Math Mammoth, too. I've read it's very similar to Singapore. You can get a sample pack and read lots of reviews on their site. I'm using 2nd grade with my 5-1/2 year old, and so far it is just what we needed.

 

 

Thanks for the tip! I will check out Math Mammoth more after dd completes her Singapore K - MM looks like it starts at 1st grade! I have heard of MM before as a math suggestion!

 

I already bought Singapore and received it in the mail! I think she will enjoy it as I bought the activity book along with the textbook.

[The Governess]

:iagree:

 

I agree because I get caught up with that too. Like I KNOW she can do something but I feel like she needs to complete every page just because the pages are there! That's what was happening with her Beginning Math Reasoning book (CTC) that we are currently working through. She would do 10 pages or so then I noticed she would only do maybe 3 or 4. I asked why and she basically said she was bored because it was too easy. So I skip stuff now.

 

We skip stuff too. Especially those problems where dd has to color a certain number of things on a page, or color the sets that are greater than x, etc. She understands the concept, but gets really tired of the coloring. So I'll just let her x them instead of color.

 

We just started Singapore 1A and are having fun with it. We did Earlybird and Power K math (also by Singapore) last year. Dd loved it. I hope yours does too! :001_smile:

[lilbean05]

This is our first year of homeschooling. My daughter turned 4 last week and we are on our 10th lesson of Horizons 1. SHE LOVES IT. She can't get enough of it and she has already learned to count by 5s and 2s up to 100 (she could do by 10s and 1s already). She is doing addition on a number line, writing greater than and less than symbols and understands what they mean, and soon the addition gets to be a bit tougher.

 

She took her first test today and she thought it was the greatest thing. She woke up and said "Today is my math test day!! I am going to do it ALL BY MYSELF, okay mommy?" She was just stoked.

 

It is VERY fast paced. It is spiral, so each of the lessons has a small repeat of what you learned the day before, but something new is introduced everyday. She never bores of it and it is her favorite subject.

 

As an aside, we are also doing Spelling Workout A, which has helped her dramatically with her handwriting. I was a bit nervous to start the math given that she wasn't writing all that great, though she was always trying and could certainly do the work--the writing seemed to be the kicker. After these 10 lessons, you can see a huge improvement in her handwriting, just from the fun practice (actually writing the number for a reason instead of 10 times in a row on a line).

[MissKNG]

This is our first year of homeschooling. My daughter turned 4 last week and we are on our 10th lesson of Horizons 1. SHE LOVES IT. She can't get enough of it and she has already learned to count by 5s and 2s up to 100 (she could do by 10s and 1s already). She is doing addition on a number line, writing greater than and less than symbols and understands what they mean, and soon the addition gets to be a bit tougher.

.

 

Horizons was the next choice if I didn't choose Singapore. I did buy Horizons Reading/Phonics K for her because I do like the Horizons curricula.

 

Horizons 1 means 1st grade, correct?

[lilbean05]

Yes, first grade Horizons. We love it!

[alexfam]

At that age my ds really liked singapore math and Abeka math.

[lighthouseacademy]

I think the RightStart is an excellent curriculum for young math students and I would recommend it over Early Bird. RightStart transitions well into Singapore later on.

 

I used RightStart B with my son starting at 4. It worked beautifully. However, be prepared to combine lessons with a child that picks up math concepts quickly.

[RanchGirl]

I started my math oriented son in Singapore, but didn't care for it. Horizons was perfect for him. There is enough explanation in the workbook for him that he often whizzes through it without needing a lot of "teaching" from me. The teacher books have never been useful for us until level 5, then I started giving him the quarter tests out of the teacher book (but still haven't needed the lessons). It's nice to know they are there though if I ever need them or if you don't feel comfortable teaching a new concept.

 

My second son started in Horizons and has also been doing well with the program. For both of them the key has been to move them ahead faster when they get bored -- usually by skipping extra problems. Also we used manipulatives for levels 1-3, not too much after that. Not for every lesson but frequently when introducing a new concept.