What about corporate honesty?

[Karen sn]

If only Corporate America had the same ethics as the people on this board.

I must admit that I feel more morally bound to independent mom and pop type places.

Not that I steal from WalMart...I actually just try to avoid them altogether because they are what they are.

 

We are learning about Hammurabi's Code this week and the whole eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth (tongue for a tongue according to dd).

I wonder how Hammurabi would deal with Corporate American welfare - like McDonald's getting our tax dollars (200,000) to advertise chicken mcnuggets overseas back in the 80's (thanks Reagan) - while social security for kids with a dead parent got cut. (Ask me how I know).

 

The year the figures were compiled: welfare for people 16 million.

.................................................welfare for BIG business 14 billion. Billion.

And that was for huge businesses, not the mom and pop stores who were going out of business because of the big corporations.

This I read in Reader's Digest if anyone wants to look it up.

 

We don't lie about dd's age to get cheaper food because I don't want to raise a dishonest kid. But I will be honest right now - I think if I went home and found that WalMart didn't charge me for a pack of gum, I would consider it "an eye for an eye" because of all the times they had over charged me on items that scanned wrong but I am not going to wait in line for 10 minutes for 30 cents.

 

And you can do that - alert them to the error and get your money back.

But if you buy the same thing again the very next day, they have not made the correction in their computer.

Wonder how much money they steal annually by refusing to correct the system that perpetuates this.

 

Now - the little grocer I used to go to where the prices were cleary marked on each individual package and the girls punched in the number by hand the old fashioned way -

I would pay for the gum next time I was there because they have never over charged me.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Karen sn

[Orthodox6]

Very likely a lot of us feel the same as you !

 

Sometimes, though, strict honesty is owed even the "Wicked Wally-Worlds". (And I must be very careful here when slamming Wal-Mart. On another education board, I witnessed how the wife of a Wal-Mart worker reacted with hurt and anger to negative criticism -- because her family desperately depended on her husband's continued employment there.) . .

 

This spring, I returned to a WalMart to return a one dollar bill which I was given, in overpayment, as change from my purchase. Before people call me ridiculous, please consider this: A cashier is responsible for the contents of his/her cash drawer. Records are kept, down to the last dollar. A nasty supervisor, during vampire season or during a full moon (you get the idea) would have had the "opening" available to punish that cashier, had I not driven back to the store and seen that the dollar bill was returned to the correct cash drawer. That cashier could have been the child, sister, or aunt of any one of us !

[I talk to the trees]

Corporate honesty is an oxymoron. I say that half in jest, but the sad fact is that it's too true to be funny. Big business will do whatever is necessary for the survival of the company, and find some way of justifying it.

 

Big business = Big $$ = Plenty to spend on lobbyists/ buying politicians = Laws to protect and support big business

 

It's a vicious circle.

 

My $.02

-Robin

[Orthodox6]

Neither "sprawling spider Big Business", nor "Mom-and-Pop small business", but an international company for which my dh works. . . When the company fell on rough times some years ago, the company founder and owner went totally without a salary for over one year (maybe even longer, but dh isn't home to ask him the length of time). He did this because he did not want to lay off any employees. There are many other acts of unselfishness I could cite regarding this man.

 

There ARE bright spots !

[pqr]

The year the figures were compiled: welfare for people 16 million.

.................................................welfare for BIG business 14 billion. Billion.

And that was for huge businesses, not the mom and pop stores who were going out of business because of the big corporations.

This I read in Reader's Digest if anyone wants to look it up.

 

 

 

Well I simply do not believe these figures.

 

In 1980 welfare was in the billions and it has been for every year since.

[PineFarmMom]

Well I simply do not believe these figures.

 

In 1980 welfare was in the billions and it has been for every year since.

 

I agree. I'm tired of hearing about evil big business. I'm not a fan of Wal-Mart, but I'm really, really not a fan of what I'm seeing right now and that is govt. takeover. I don't. want. socialism!! I think it's being forced on us. :(

[Vida Winter]

I agree. I'm tired of hearing about evil big business. I'm not a fan of Wal-Mart, but I'm really, really not a fan of what I'm seeing right now and that is govt. takeover. :(

 

:iagree:

 

If anything big business is a target now. If anyone is evil these days it's the government.

[lionfamily1999]

I think the reason you should not steal, is because it would lower you to corporation standards. The problem with codes, like Hammurabi's, are that they ignore individual truths for a less honest, blanket truth. An eye for an eye, simple and straightforward, but it does not take into account the person who accidently destroyed someone's eye, or the good samaritan that tried to help someone and their eye problem, but made it worse or simply couldn't fix it and is now blamed for the loss of the eye.

 

Yes, corporations are immoral money machines that ignore the individual in order to bring in as much money as possible, BUT the corporations are made on the backs of MANY individuals and when you steal from the corporation, if, for instance, you keep that dollar, then, it's not the corporation that will suffer, but the INDIVIDUAL whose register comes up short.

 

What it comes down to, is that petty revenges, keeping the gum or the dollar, will not contribute to ending corporations. All it will do is add more negative to the world, create another person getting screwed for something they have little to nothing to do with, and contribute to the overall sense of resentment and anger at a system that has become so focused on equalizing us all, that it's starting to strip our humanity away.

[Impish]

Corporate honesty is an oxymoron. I say that half in jest, but the sad fact is that it's too true to be funny. Big business will do whatever is necessary for the survival of the company, and find some way of justifying it.

 

Big business = Big $$ = Plenty to spend on lobbyists/ buying politicians = Laws to protect and support big business

 

It's a vicious circle.

 

My $.02

-Robin

Exactly what I was going to say.

[Vida Winter]

I think the reason you should not steal, is because it would lower you to corporation standards. The problem with codes, like Hammurabi's, are that they ignore individual truths for a less honest, blanket truth. An eye for an eye, simple and straightforward, but it does not take into account the person who accidently destroyed someone's eye, or the good samaritan that tried to help someone and their eye problem, but made it worse or simply couldn't fix it and is now blamed for the loss of the eye.

 

Yes, corporations are immoral money machines that ignore the individual in order to bring in as much money as possible, BUT the corporations are made on the backs of MANY individuals and when you steal from the corporation, if, for instance, you keep that dollar, then, it's not the corporation that will suffer, but the INDIVIDUAL whose register comes up short.

 

What it comes down to, is that petty revenges, keeping the gum or the dollar, will not contribute to ending corporations. All it will do is add more negative to the world, create another person getting screwed for something they have little to nothing to do with, and contribute to the overall sense of resentment and anger at a system that has become so focused on equalizing us all, that it's starting to strip our humanity away.

 

I'd just like to ask you if you have ever worked for a reputable corporation. They do exist, usually starting as mom-and-pop enterprises and growing when they have a product that the public wants to buy.

 

We would be a much different country today without our many successful large corporations. The ability to get on an airplane and fly comes to mind. Or log on to this web site. On the whole, I'd bet that corporations are doing a whole lot more good than evil. Same goes for individuals.

[Hillary in KS]

Well I simply do not believe these figures.

 

In 1980 welfare was in the billions and it has been for every year since.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

By Texas T I agree. I'm tired of hearing about evil big business. I'm not a fan of Wal-Mart, but I'm really, really not a fan of what I'm seeing right now and that is govt. takeover. I don't. want. socialism!! I think it's being forced on us. :(

 

IMHO our goverment had no desire for a goverment take over of the banks and car makers. It was the reckless actions of the greedy banks that almost brought our whole economy to its knees that necessitated our goverment taking some action. I also believe that our goverment cannot wait to get out of this mess asap:)

 

I love business and there has been several business owners in our family:) However, there has been a multitude of glaring examples of big business behaving badly as long as I can remember (and I am fairly old having remembered the first moon landing;))

[Lovedtodeath]

I know there are plenty of small Ma and Pa business owners who are less than honest and get more than their employees, running the business into the ground costing the employees their jobs, not fulfilling contracts of promised bonuses or raises, or not paying them for extended periods without cost to themselves. Don't ask me how I know.

[RoughCollie]

I remember how shocked I was when I found out Ford decided not to fix the Pinto's flaws, deciding it was cheaper for them to pay out an average $400K for each life lost than to fix the design problem with the car.

 

I found this out by reading the appellate decision in one of the cases against Ford.

[PineFarmMom]

IMHO our goverment had no desire for a goverment take over of the banks and car makers. It was the reckless actions of the greedy banks that almost brought our whole economy to its knees that necessitated our goverment taking some action. I also believe that our goverment cannot wait to get out of this mess asap:)

 

 

You and I will just have to agree to disagree on that. I think this is JUST what our giant govt. wanted in order to get even bigger than they already are which has been too big for too long. We're steamrolling ourselves into complete govt. control of our lives, and this business bailout situation is just part of it. I feel like so many people are saying, oh, please mr. president, save us save us!! You're our hero (in my best damsel in distress voice <swoon>) It's just so hard to believe what I'm seeing. I think back 20 years ago and wonder what people would think of what we've swallowed. :(

[elw_miller]

IMHO our goverment had no desire for a goverment take over of the banks and car makers. It was the reckless actions of the greedy banks that almost brought our whole economy to its knees that necessitated our goverment taking some action. I also believe that our goverment cannot wait to get out of this mess asap:)

 

I agree that the banks were greedy and foolish (though they were not the only ones). Institutions (businesses, governments, etc.) are only as honest as the people within them.

 

I hope you are right that "our goverment cannot wait to get out of this mess asap". But, I doubt they will--politicians like wielding power, and they are wielding more power over these banks and corporations than what is sound and wise, in my opinion. Politicians are always "taking some action"--whether it is really in the country's best interest or not, whether the action taken has been well considered or not, etc. (e.g., the CPSIA, No Child Left Behind, etc.). Sometimes I wish they wouldn't "take action"--I have a feeling things would turn out okay (quite possibly even better) without their interference. But, I could also be a raving loony. :)

 

Cicero, from On the Good Life, "On Duties II," page 168-169:

"The real answer to the problem is that we must make absolutely certain that private debts do not ever reach proportions which will constitute national peril. There are various ways of ensuring this. But just to take the money away from the rich creditors and give the debtors something that does not belong to them is no solution at all. For the firmest possible guarantee of a country's security is sound credit, and, once you cease to regard the repayment of debts as mandatory, soundness of credit is no more.

 

The most vigorous of all agitations to cancel debts took place while I was consul. Men of every sort and condition were involved, and they took up arms and enrolled themselves in whole armies. I stood up to them: and the result was that this pestilential business was wholly rooted out of our national life. Never have debts been more extensive than they were at that time. And yet they were paid off more fully, more easily, than ever before or since: because once all hopes of evading the obligation had been dispelled, repayment was recognized to be inevitable...

 

So the men in charge of our national interests will do well to steer clear of the kind of liberality which involves robbing one man to give to another. Instead, they must make it their foremost concern to ensure that the just operation of the law and the lawcourts shall guarantee to each and every citizen the safe possession of his own property. They must ensure that poor men are not swindled because they are poor. But they must equally guarantee that rich men are not prevented, by envious prejudice, from keeping what is theirs or recovering what was once theirs but is now lost."

[Nestof3]

Honestly, I think honesty is a problem across the board -- from individuals to employees to owners.

 

I personally think corporations get blamed a lot, but I've seen a lot of dishonest behavior from employees as well. These are things I've seen with my own eyes. Personally, I just aim to be honest and don't think two wrongs make a right.

 

calling in sick when they're not

 

shipping items from work so the company ends up paying for it

 

playing computer games and doing personal things when the person should be working

 

physically stealing from a company

 

using company cell phone for personal calls which result in extra fines

 

I personally don't think in terms of "corporate America" -- I think in terms of individuals. Companies are made up of individuals. People like my husband -- an owner.

 

I've seen plenty of people owe companies money and treat it like "well, I just cannot afford to pay them, and they have to accept that. Afterall -- they're a corporation.

 

Excuse me, but we area corporation, but when you tell my husband to mow your lawn, you should expect to pay and try your hardest to. If you can no longer afford it, tell my husband to stop mowing. Don't let him mow for the whole month and THEN say you cannot afford it.

 

Companies are made of people. People with families. Real people.

 

And, for the record: my husband is amazingly honest. He claims cash! He is an incredible boss. You cannot even fathom the stuff he puts up with. My husband -- owner of a corporation -- is wonderful.

Edited June 14, 2009 by nestof3