Thank you. I'll re-look at Fallacy Detective. It's been a few years but I thought I remembered them using the Bible as fact to support their arguments. That would not work for us. I'll also check out the Art of Argument. I haven't seen that one! Pegasus

How about using a PASS textbook? They are specifically designed for high school students who need an easy to understand format. You can download the student book free and see if it would meet your needs. The teacher books are available very inexpensively as well $3.50 + $3.50shipping. http://www.pass.leon.k12.fl.us/default.aspx

DD11 has completed the 3 Dandylion logic workbooks (loved them) and a couple of the MindBenders books. What can we use next? We both got a bit tired of MindBenders since it was the same type of puzzle over and over again. We'd like something with a bit more variety, like the Dandylion books. Oh, and we need something secular. I really liked the Fallacy Detective but we can't use it because of the Christian worldview. Anything written in a similar fashion but secular? Many thanks, Pegasus

Here ya go: http://ccrc.tc.columbia.edu/Publication.asp?UID=547 "The Postsecondary Achievement of Participants in Dual Enrollment: An Analysis of Student Outcomes in Two States" Good luck! Pegasus

Can I tack on a question to this thread? My apologies to the OP! I already own some of the books for LL 7. Do the questions/assignments refer to page numbers in the reading books, such that you'll have problems if you don't have the exact edition they sell? Thanks, Pegasus

I used to worry about the same thing but it worked out. DD is 8.5 and finally seems to have her "b" and "d" straightened out. The number 5 still sometimes gets written backwards but she usually notices and corrects it. Hang in there, you probably just need a little more time. Whatever you do, do NOT teach them the little trick of just using a capitals when they need a "b" or a "d". A friend of mine says her husband was taught this as a child and still, to this day, uses this whenever he writes. The sad thing is, his first name has a "D" in the middle and his last name has a "B" in the middle. So, he writes his first name as "RanDy." Pegasus

I would say Word. This will be used much more for completing papers in high school and college. Knowing Excel would be especially helpful for science, finance, statistics, etc., applications. Neither are hard to learn on your own if you are willing to use the help feature to look up something when you get stuck. Pegasus

Who can pick just one?!? We've tried and abandoned some programs. These are the ones we've used with some success: Wordsmith Apprentice Write a Super Sentence (Evan Moor) Paragraph Writing (Evan Moor) Writing Skills (EPS) And what we are planning to use in the next few years: Writing Strands Jump-In Wordsmith Pegasus

We used it when it gave you 2 free clips a day and we used it more recently just for the free trial. It is funny and educational but there is no way I'd pay their asking price for it. They have clips for younger kids, maybe good for ages 5 to 8 and more advanced clips for maybe ages 9-14 (rough estimates). Pegasus

I think you need to start with alpha if they are using their fingers to add. Don't belabor the lessons, once they have it mastered, move on. They should be able to get through it pretty quickly. Pegasus

Everyone has to make these choices for themselves but I would be doing my best to persuade my DC to find a less expensive school: state universities or even community college for the basic courses and then transferring. Pegasus

Try a used bookstore or online at Amazon or Half.com for very cheap high school and college textbooks. Once a new edition is out, the older edition is a huge bargain. Pegasus

I'd like to recommend EPS Writing Skills. This is what is finally working for us, after trying several different things. I've decided that writing is just something that you have to DO, every day, if possible, and wait until it starts to click. Pegasus

Hits: MUS EPS Writing Skills (FINALLY found the hand-holding program we needed) Hakim's History of US Prentice Hall's Life Science Sequential Spelling Misses: Vocabulary Cartoons (love the concept but first book was too easy for the age-range marketed, we're going to try one of the SAT prep Vocab Cartoons books) Outsourced art class (teacher canceled more classes than she held)

Even before reading the other posts, my first thought was death of either parent or divorce. . .or if the kids grew up and went off to college. I guess we'd be forced to give up homeschooling then too. Pegasus

Thank you, everyone. I appreciate all the information. I love to get more information that I ask for, Christine, so thanks! Pegasus

1. Can it only be purchased through Hewitt Homeschooling website? I can't seem to find it anywhere else. If that is the only place, what is their return policy like? I think I need to see this product (more than just the posted samples). 2. Can it easily to used secularly? The book choices and samples looks fine but their statement of faith makes it clear that they use a Christian perspective. I apologize in advance for how I am phrasing this, but just how Christian is Lightning Literature? 3. How important is the teacher book? Can it be used successfully with just the student book? Many thanks! Pegasus

Watching Bill Nye is good science exposure, IMHO, as long as it isn't the only science you do. We love science videos here. We also love experiments and have gone through many science kits. We've recently picked up a couple inexpensive workbooks by DK called Learn Science! These are not your typical workbooks. Each page includes a hands-on activity/experiment and then a suggestion on how to elaborate or extend this lesson. If you ever get the chance, check out a British show called Brainiac. Oh my, it is science experiments taken to the extreme. Not everything they do would be considered in good taste, but oh so funny. Pegasus

Just confirming all these great posts you are getting. Your daughter needs a strong foundation in early arithmetic. Don't worry about going back too far, she'll zip right through anything that is easy for her and you'll both KNOW that she has it mastered when she can teach it back to you. I like the idea of using the older version of MUS because it will be much less expensive than buying so many levels of the new version in a short period of time. Even the name "Foundations" emphasizes your goal and should be acceptable to your DD. Pegasus

Exploration Education is aimed at students in 4th-8th grade so a 12-year-old would be right in the middle. I used it with a science-loving 9 to 10 year old and she needed a little help now and then. I think a 12-year-old would be able to do the program very independently, especially if you think they can use a glue gun! I'd also expect more complete logbook entries from a 12-yo. Addiitonal lessons are included in the standard program for students in the 7th and 8th grades. I'd be sure he did those as well. We were very very pleased with this program and will be ordering the supplies again when my younger DD gets a little older. Pegasus

Here ya go: Old: the topics jump around and it seems to get worse as you progress through the series. Foundations didn't seem to jump around much but in Intermediate, the lessons go from simple fraction concepts to multiplication back to more complex fraction concepts and back again to more complicated multiplication problems. Also, the lessons sometimes contain 2 or 3 topics. Topics continue to jump around a bit in Advanced. New: Organized with less jumping from topic to topic and back again. Typically ONE new concept per lesson. Old: Each lesson contains 4 review sheets, each including just a few problems on the new concept and the remaining problems review of previous lessons. You can buy a separate book of extra practice problems if your student needs more practice on each new concept. New: Each lesson has 3 sheets for the new concept and 3 review sheets. Old: Tests are in the Teacher's Manual and must be copied for use. New: Tests are in a separate book. Old: Story problems are weak and all of similar type on a page (all multiplication by 8, for example). New: Story problems are mixed up a bit more but are still weak, IMHO. New: Not expensive compared to some other popular math programs but more than the old version used to be, mainly because each level covers less material. Old: Can be picked up very cheap on the second-hand market. I picked up a complete and unused set of Intermediate AND Advanced levels for less than one new version level from MUS. Bottom line: I think the new version is improved in so many ways that if a person is just starting MUS and budget is not too tight, go with the new. However, if a person already owns the old, the old is working for them, and budget is a concern, stick with the old. The old is GOOD, even if the new is better. If budget is a BIG concern, I'd even advise someone new to MUS pick up the old version cheaply, rather than miss out on MUS completely. We are using the old MUS and I am completely happy with Foundations. In Intermediate, while I am still happy with each lesson, I'm less thrilled with the jumping from topic to topic and back again. Advanced seems to be going a bit more smoothly although the topics still jump around some. My DD picks up new concepts quickly and we wouldn't need all the extra sheets provided in the new version anyway. We don't test so that improvement is not a draw for us either. I do add in Singapore's Challenging Word Problems and skip most of the ones in MUS, which I would do regardless of whether I was using the new or old MUS. That's all. I hope it helps. Pegasus

I won't bash you. You've obviously given this a lot of thought and care about the future of these dogs. However, I think many of the people who've responded are kidding themselves. You have two older dogs who shed heavily, jump, and aren't housebroken. People will NOT be falling over themselves to give them a good home. I think you should let them finish their lives with you in the backyard, since they don't seem unhappy and have one another for company. I also warn against getting another dog. Your life sounds too hectic at this stage. Pegasus

There is a MUCH cheaper program that is essentially identical to MUS. . .classic MUS, the previous edition. You can pick it up on the used market very inexpensively. I've paid between $10 and $20 for complete sets (teacher book, video, and student book). It's even cheaper than it appears because the older version covers 2 to 3 years worth of material per level. I looked carefully at the new MUS books and do think they provide many improvements. However, the older version can't be beat as far as value. I have a detailed comparison of old versus new MUS somewhere. Let me know if you are interested and I'll post it. Pegasus

Thanks for the ideas, everyone. My DH suggested making one, as well! I was curious if any states actually issued something called a certificate. I think I will wait and talk to my favorite librarian the next time I go in to our branch, rather than trying to communicate with the main library. She may just issue me the card without a fuss, or would certainly be able to explain what she needs. Pegasus

My local public library just shortened their check-out period to 2 weeks. I sent an e-mail asking if homeschooling parents would qualify for the special teacher card that allows a check-out period of 6 weeks. The answer I received was yes, but I'd have to provide a homeschooling certificate. Ummm. . .my state doesn't have anything called a homeschooling certificate. Does anyone?!? I guess it is just a situation of someone assuming that homeschoolers need "permission" to teach their own children at home. I don't have any kind of homeschool group ID or anything so I'm wondering what might satisfy the librarians that I'm a homeschooling parent and not someone just trying to skirt their short standard check-out period. Thanks. Pegasus