Here's the thing - let your mother complain. It's family, she can't have everyone snowed :coolgleamA: so chances the people to whom she's complaining will already know to apply their Slipper's Mom Filter to anything she says. They're going to be familiar with her work. You have a legitimate medical excuse (anxiety), not that you need one, so why not use it to begin asserting yourself? Don't wait for your mom, siblings, or anyone else to suddenly begin valuing you and your time. It isn't likely to happen that way. You have to re-train them to view you with more respect, and you do that first by believing yourself that you're worthy of it. And then you follow that up with behaving like you believe it. The fallout will not be fun, but it doesn't sound like you're having much fun now anyhow - right? She offered to help, so hold her to it. Let her know that you're anxiety levels are high and if the party is going to happen she's going to need to step back up to the plate. Have ready a list of things she can buy or decor she can make or tasks she can do. Put the ball in her court. Don't let her old tricks work to get you back up to yours! And let her continue to complain; don't forget, your family (and likely a good number of her friends) aren't strangers to her persona. We can love people, and still be aware of their less wonderful qualities. Her circle is not immune to that, even if to her face they appear to indulge her complaints. Be loving but firm that these are the new parameters under which the party can take place. She may throw a tantrum and call it off; if so, let her do that. And don't you dare feel badly, no matter how hard anyone - even you - tries to guilt you into it. She can bring it up every holiday for the next twenty years and it will annoy the snot out of you BUT you'll have both the satisfaction of knowing it was the event at which you began to assert respect for you and your time AND you'll have the benefit of foresight in knowing time will eventually reveal to all ... her leopard's spots. And maybe those of the rest of your family, too. Delayed gratification is where it's at LOL. Or she may begrudgingly accept your new terms, have her party, and continue to grumble behind your back. But she'll have also taken note of your audacity ;) and though she won't be pleased, she'll start to realize she's dealing with a different Slipper. I'd not delay the inevitable, especially pushing towards winter holidays. Is she always like this? I wonder if this is some weird reaction to retiring, and she's struggling with the transition. It can be hard losing a huge part of your life and identity, even when you want it or knew it was coming. It'd make me feel better about her irrationality if there was that sort of underlying reason behind it. Because reading your update, I'm heartbroken you've been put in such a hard spot in terms of financing this thing. So an outdoor party in the south during summer. I like your idea of a mid-morning garden party. What about changing it from a party to an open house? That eliminates the expectation of lunch while keeping to the cooler morning hours. FWIW I don't think lunch is necessary even for your original idea. Nice, but not necessary. The open house can be between 9-11 or 10-12. Make some sweet tea, lemonade, and Shirley Temples. Put out cookies for 50, a batch of berry muffins and a few zucchini or banana loaves. If your mom would like something more substantial and is willing to finance it, she can buy supplies for you and Sis to make finger sandwiches. Maybe you know a gardener who may have extra cukes and tomatoes to slice and serve alongside those sandwiches. Add your branches, rocks, flowers, and banner decor then pat yourself on the back for pulling off a lovely (and God willing, her fourth and final) tribute to your Mom's career. And know you did so against many odds, while learning how to show others that your time is valuable. Good luck!

I live in what's pretty much the armpit of the country, in terms of sweatiness, smell, and overall feel. It's a temporary assignment, thanks be to God. A pool has been the only thing that's kept me from quitting my job and moving as far away from the awful pit to live off of the land, sell my body or anything else it would take to subsidize the loss of my income. This place is truly The Pits. The pool helps. I hate maintaining it, but it's worth it to me. I grew up on the beach so I like to have my daily dip. The nearest beach to me is at least six hours away, and it's probably the world's worst - if lack of tourism and development is any indication, not discounting how dirty, smelly and gross it is in my own (snobby) opinion LOL. We use it daily during the warm months. It's a short but miserable season, maybe June - September. We also use it some during cooler months, but for entertainment. We have boat races and light lanterns for outside meals, etc., for an additional few months each year. It's covered during winter. Times I wish I didn't have it - when stuff breaks. Last summer it was our slide, this summer the filter or something is leaking. It can be expensive but I figure we get as much use out of it as the season allows, so it's a reasonable trade-off. If I had mostly younger kids who would need my supervision out there, I might not love it as much. I have one younger kid who needs me or an older sibling out there at all times, but the rest of my kids can use it if there are three or more of them out there (and there always are). While I enjoy my own daily dip, I'm not enthused by the idea of spending all day every summer out there watching my kids' five millionth identical jump. It feels easier to say no to something that's not in my backyard. Times I'm glad I have it - too hot or too expensive to fill summer hours doing anything else. It's nice to just go out, play, exercise, and enjoy the pool. It's inexpensive to invite another family over, grill some dinner and blend some margaritas and call it a party. Way cheaper than eating out, way less messy than having another family's kids joining mine in tearing up the house, and way more fun than sweating it out at a park. It's an expense, though. I have my sons do maintenance, which helps. If we only used it a few times each month during the warm months, I'd go with the neighborhood pool. Let it be someone else's headache and your pleasure place.

That's wonderful about DH's raise, and congratulations on your pregnancy! And ... I love your attitude. Surprises can take time to process, but you seem to be taking it all in stride. That's almost as awesome as a new baby being on the way :)

I didn't vote in the poll. I homeschool my 12 year old. The older ones attend public school. I also have teen nephews at the local public schools. We all see the same thing your daughter is seeing. Nearly all of my homeschooled son's friends attend school. Even my 5th grade/11 year old's public school classmates had unlimited access to phones - typically smartphones. I know one mom who collects her kids' phones at night. Her kids are 11 and 14. I know a few moms who have taken phones away for periods of time if the phones were becoming an issue (e.g., staying up late or allowing the phones to dictate rude behavior) - but the standard was to start off allowing full access 24/7 unless it proved problematic. Those were all public or private school moms, but the one homeschool family I know who has teens followed the same format. I only know a few other homeschool families, and only the one has teenagers. Their 13 year old is allowed limited access to her phone - we typically lose communication with her around the dinner hour. Her 14 year old brother is allowed unrestricted access to his smartphone. The 13 year old was initially given unlimited access with the flip phone, on her 13th birthday. Turns out she needed some extra assistance with moderating her phone time LOL. We agree with your daughter. That said, if everyone else jumped off a bridge ...... ;)

Curiosity killed the cat ;) By presence I meant a literal presence; however I'm able to be present to that person, if they lose or are losing their battle with depression I believe they still feel my presence - that my being there is valid and helpful, even if not enough to lift them up. I don't think that's what I was saying, but there's a shard of truth to that. It's true that no one can be helped unless they: see the need for help, desire to be helped, and/or believe a trade-off exists for seeking help. But to sum it up as "[those] affected by depression who don't get out of it don't really want the help" grossly oversimplifies a complex, multi-faceted situation. I think Maus' post (#49) offers good insight. Here's my expounding of that, in answering your question: Sure, there are those who will prefer or choose to stay depressed. It might be all they’re familiar with due to dysfunctional relationships; it might be worth the creative outputs the depression inspires; it might even be something they feel they deserve as some sort of self-penance for any number of wrongs committed, real or perceived. I don't think those make up the majority, nor were they who I was speaking of, but sure - they exist. And they, they'll stay in a depressed state because they‘ve determined that the trade-off is worth it. This determination may be made by choice or by circumstance, by force or submission, in lucidity or fog; but that’s neither here nor there. It’s no less painful an experience, but it does change the framework from which they view it. Their depression becomes too big a part of their identity, and it begins to consume them. Liken it to the swimmer in a riptide who comes to that point where survival skills and desire can no longer save him from the pull of his increasingly dead weight. Watching from the shore we see him struggling, and then appear to just give up. How can they just give up? we wonder, failing to recognize that there is always a point of no return – regardless of how we got there, regardless of how much we want to survive, regardless of how strong we (think we) are, and regardless of how supportive the people at the shoreline are. The depressed may not appear to want help, but appearances are deceiving – not just to us, but even to them. What may appear to be giving up may really be someone drowning under the deadening weight of their depression. So yes, it’s a matter of them not wanting help – but no, it’s not as simple as that statement implies. Here are some hypothetical situations in which a depressed person may not appear to want help: He may fall to cultural ideas that may have him feeling he’s a failure to need to help. (Those being family culture, ethnic culture, social culture and those norms to which he identifies. In an effort to live up to his social norms he’s denying his situation warrants help.) He may not feel there’s any help out there for him. (Perhaps he’s tried various treatments, to no avail. None of the therapists “get him†and none of the meds last, if they work at all.) He may not feel worthy of help (he’s already convinced himself he’s insignificant to the world, why pay for or waste the time of others trying to get better – just so he can continue to be insignificant.) He may feel his depression is a cross to bear, for any reason real or perceived, shared or inferred, true or untrue. (To seek help nullifies the attempt to carry this cross.) There are more, but this post is long enough ;) and so many other posters have shared much more insightful, painful yet hopeful words. I'll defer to them for the rest of the thread.

No, I must've missed it also :coolgleamA: The OP reads like the homeowner was fine with the pre-nuptial arrangment and the new wife was not. In that scenario, as set up, a compromise is called for - at least in my opinion and yours, Marbel! I was glad to read the update downthread that the uncle had arrived at a reasonable compromise. I'm not sure there is one, but I don't think anyone suggested there be. It's not the same scenario as outlined in the OP. Posts calling for a compromise between wife and family suggested relatives "give a call before you pop over ..." as one example of a possible compromise. It wasn't disclosed until well into the thread that the uncle had already made this compromise/request and that this compromise/request is what the relatives were actually reacting to. You joined the thread post-updates, which may explain the disconnect between your initial response and the initial responses of others. In fairness, the updates reveal a very different situation than the one presented in the OP. We'll have to disagree on it being a dramatic shift, poppy. We're coming at it from two different angles :) but hey, that's what makes the world goes 'round. I think the pool is a surface issue and the evolving relationship is the crux of the situation - maybe consciously, maybe not, on the part of the nephews and neices. Marriage is a big shift. I see this as being more about a newly married uncle than about pool use. It's a shame because instead of focusing on how to nurture changing relationships within an extended family, focus is now on easing the tension between sides drawn - old family and new family. I hope it's short-lived!

Is this a newer gym, or maybe an older gym under new management? To quote AimeeM, it does seem a bit odd that an established gym wouldn't know a ballpark fee in advance, wouldn't offer scholarships, and wouldn't do a group fundraiser. But that could all be explained if this were a gym still getting its feet wet, or branching out for the first time into this program.

We liked the Ukrainian cultural village, too. We also rode horses at some gorgeous lake, but I can't remember the name of it. We did the mall, too, but you can do that anywhere. I liked having new-to-me stores in which to shop, and buy things we couldn't have gotten at home. Learned the hard way not to use the mall ATM for cash LOL. Wouldn't been cheaper to use my credit card, but hindsight ... and all of that. Enjoy your trip! I hope you get to meet up with swellmomma, what a great opportunity to make the world a bit smaller :)

As the responses in this thread show, what is "right" will vary from person to person - and maybe even relationship to relationship. Sometimes the best things to say are spoken by actions and not words. Being there, literally and figuratively. Not allowing them to isolate, but not forcing them out of their pit either. Just little reminders by virtue of presence (in-person if able, but calls/emails/cards/etc. if necessary) that someone DOES care, someone DOES see value in you, someone DOES notice, someone DOES still see the light outside of the pit and is going to be there to lift you up into it when you are ready. If you ever become ready. These people forget there's light out there, they need to be shown and convinced there truly is light (even dim light) beyond the pit. Sometimes the best things to say are the things you know they'd tell you if roles were reversed. These are the people who know there's light still out there, they're just walking under a huge storm cloud. They may be motivated (if sometimes hurt) by assertive reminders that this is a literal depression - a pothole in the road of life. The focus isn't on finding the light because the person knows it exists; the focus is on encouraging them to take off the sunglasses so they can return to it. There are different kinds of depression, and each kind is further separated by how each distinct personality is affected by it. There can be no best or worst way to approach this person, but the one right thing to do in any case is to be a continued presence. To not hold them to any relationship expectations, to see them almost as an emotional infant who is 99% reliant upon the outside world to acknowledge and meet emotional needs. When you can't trust yourself and your own feelings, you rely on the outside world to show you you're wrong. Not always consciously. When the outside world proves or agrees with your assessment of yourself, well - the pit naturally grows deeper. They'll try to justify away the reasons you're there (you HAVE to care b/c you're a parent/spouse/child/etc.; you wouldn't care if you knew what an awful person they are/things they've done; etc.) and all you can do is to quietly but assuredly try to show them they're wrong. It will only help those open to help, but I feel pretty certain given my professional experience that even those who can't be saved from their depressions still feel the presence; it's just that their justifications won out. It's not that they didn't feel and experience that outpouring of love. It truly does depend on the person, the relationship, and the nature of the depression. How heartbreaking to go through it, and worse - to watch it from the outside and to feel so helpless :(

She needs a sponsor. Look for area businesses, ideally small and local businesses - is there one you frequent who knows your family, especially your daughter? In return for sponsorship she can pass flyers door-to-door, wear a practice shirt or carry a duffle bag with their logo on it, or even "volunteer" at the business (cleaning, running orders to waiting cars, etc.) Do you attend church? Is there any way to spread the word (bulletin, website, bulletin board) that your daughter is raising funds? She may not mow, but what about weeding, planting, trimming, general maintenance (cleaning trash cans, washing windows, etc.). This is a busy time for real estate. My sons have made money in the past by putting out and removing signs - for sale/lease, open house, etc. She'd need your driving help, obviously. They've also made money doing cold calling to offer the agent's CMA services. NOT FUN but the agent provided the numbers and a script, and it was an air-conditioned gig. That could be another sponsorship option, too. Is it possible to work directly with the gym? I know our gym doesn't love it, but has been open to allowing parents to barter services in lieu of formal scholarships. Cleaning, advertising, etc. Otherwise the previously mentioned garage sales, car washes (every day if necessary), cookie/water/lemonade stand options are the only way to ensure she gets the money in time to commit. I know your neighborhood isn't the friendly kind but what about offering the pet-sitting services via craigslist? Can her dad afford to pay his half, and possibly more? If not, and it's a matter of his CHOICE, that's a bum deal. If so, as hard as it may be, would it be possible to borrow your half from him? She could work it off, or you could enter a re-payment plan with him - assuming the relationship allows for that kind of arrangment. Most reasonable parents mightn't like that, or want to set up a precedent, but may risk it for something this important to their child. It's just another option. As is asking his family for sponsorships or early birthday/holiday gifts since yours and DH's aren't an option for that. Is she a seasoned cheerleader? Might she be able to run a small mini-camp for little kids? I'd be willing to pay someone to spend a few hours teaching basic cheers to my girl - nothing as committed as a class or camp, but something to do over summer for the 4-8 year old set who had a passing interest in that. Since your neighborhood is what it is, maybe advertise on craigslist or put out the word at church, local businesses, homeschool group, etc. Respect what your neighborhood is, but don't accept it - put flyers door to door letting them know she's an area girl hoping to do something constructive. Maybe some of them will thaw and branch out a bit LOL. Or at least pass along the information to friends who might. If she's willing to hustle for it, I say go for it. Encourage her to work hard for the things that are important to her, keeping in mind that it's not a guaranteed thing. Be prepared for disappointment if she works hard and falls short, but know it's an important lesson to learn (better now when the stakes are lower, too.) But remind her she's worth hustling for and teach her that she's going to have to work hard to get to where she needs to be. In this case, financially, but those same skills transfer over to cheer, school, relationships, and so many other areas in life. Good luck to her, I hope she makes it!

It would naturally depend on who's asking, but for the most part I'm inclined to allow it. Re: liability, for all I know they'd have done it any how w/o even the courtesy or respect of asking first. That doesn't sway my opinion, it's just something that crossed my mind.

If the established family culture is fluid, then to suddenly dam it up (even when justified) goes deeper than someone getting mad he's no longer getting something from free. It's a game-changer beyond the catalyst. I think that's a very different beast than you're accounting for. Kids in particular - even adult "kids" who have known had that fun, easy-going uncle - aren't coming at it from the angle of entitlement. They're coming at it from having the (family cultural) rug pulled out from under them. It's not about the pool so much as it's about their uncle changing. And that's not a bad thing, nor an unusual one - especially when a single relative gets married, be it aunt or uncle or parent or sibling or even child. But it's unfair to pin it on immaturity and entitlement. Relationships evolve but adjustments take time. All parties need to realize this and dance accordingly. That's why a compromise is ideal; it allows the parties time to adjust with respect to each other's relationships. At the very least, it allows for relationships to evolve with some sacrifice on each party's part ... but without the risk of alienating any single, one relationship. There are no winners there. But again, we're not leave and cleave people. The checks and balances that present themselves when we pull our own marriage wagon into the circle of our extended family do us all well - individually, as couples, as extended family. And without regard or preference for "time in" so that no one is exempt - whether originating family or new-to family. It's not a perfect system, but it's the best compromise short of arranging marriages. And don't think I haven't tried that route with some of my siblings. <-- 98% kidding LOL So in sum, family culture can't be overlooked here. No one is to blame for anything, there's no reason to point someone out as the wronged party. It's simply the evolving of a relationship and acceptance that all parties now need to adjust. The marriage is best served by allowing time for that adjustment, and the extended family relationships are best served by giving space for that adjustment. There will be kinks on all sides. It's life, and life is about living. And living is about growing. And growing is about learning. And learning is about making mistakes and forgiving the mistakes of others, as each of us figures out this living gig. Let's just call it the psycho-socio- circle of life. Cue Elton John ...

Assessed value isn't a great gauge in trying to determine what to bid on a home. Those are typically done every year or two, during which time the MARKET value will have likely ebbed and flowed. And improvements may have been made to the home or property but not yet assessed. Not only that but assessed value is influenced by the homeowner - does he protest his taxes? If so, his assessed value will be lower. He wants that! Does he not protest his taxes? If not, his assessed value will be higher. You don't want to pay for that! It's a game, and the assessed value depends on each player's strategy. Foreclosures in the area will also affect assessed value. It's not the best baseline for making a bid. Market value is what you want to look for. If a buyer is willing to pay their asking price, it's not over-priced even if it's more than you'd be willing to pay LOL. You could register at Redfin. They have a search feature that allows you to see what on-market homes are listed at (including any changes in the listing's history), but also allows you to search for what recently-sold homes were last listed at and sold for. Some states don't make public the final selling prices, but the last listing price and pricing history may help you by giving you a ballpark idea. That's essentially pulling your own comps. A real estate agent would happily do the same, perhaps with added expertise to advise with. New homes can be exciting :) Let us know if you make a bid!

Not a bad suggestion! I bet between my boys they can even rouse up a good portion of their belt loops to "give" her since we have so many duplicates, triplicates, and more LOL. We've done a few just because they were good life lessons, but what a good idea to expand on that. We went to a GS meet and greet, but it bombed. My DD loves crafts and that stuff but she does that at home; she wanted "scouts" to be what she saw the cub scouts doing. Actual useful, real stuff with some crafts thrown in to round it out. Meanwhile I talked her AHG group into doing a few of the more outdoorsy stuff next year - can't wait!

That stinks about amnesty day, but the teacher's card kinda makes up for it! But hey, I can verify that you are in EXCELLENT company re: the personal fine. It's so bad that it's a running joke with our librarians. And my kids won't let me check out books on their cards, either LOL.

No encouraging stories, sorry, but one morsel for thought: The one thing that will work is going to be the one thing you can/will follow through with. Consistently. For some people, counting calories works. For others, more exercise works. For some, removing entire food groups works. For others, moderation does the trick I honestly think it boils down to partly genetics ... but mostly consistency and choosing a weight-loss method you can and will follow through with. I think so many dieting failures are due to trying to unrealistic expectations or restrictions from the on-set. That and the learning curve it can take to really get to know your genes and body. Good luck with your weight loss journey, whatever direction it takes - nothing works until you really want it, and it sounds like you're there. You can do this. You've already done a great job of maintaining, and that's no easy feat either.

I love the ping pong table idea. I think I'm going to get one of those! You could do silly contests - building bridges with a $5 box of popsicle sticks, or the dropping the egg thing, build a house from cards, etc. Throw some snacks at them every once in awhile, put on some 70s rock, and they'll either love you or hate you LOL. Do you have an old video recorder? My boys use an old camcorder to make home movies or to film themselves doing stupid stunts on their skateboards and bikes. They have Amazing Race contests at the park, with my 12 year old hosting like he's that Phil guy (accent and all) and the other boys doing challenges. We sometimes watch them after dinner, but the boys love watching them as soon as they get home.

Mine spend a lot of time outdoors - swimming, soccer, hoops, bikes, tennis, walking dogs, etc. My 11, 12, and 13 year olds still climb trees with friends and have water gun wars. Some of their friends start off thinking it's weird but when my older teens get in on the act, somehow it's less 'uncool' and more appealing LOL. I sometimes send them to the store to buy stuff for me, get them out of the house some but with a purpose - even if it's made up. One can never have too much butter ;) They also play video games, board games, and take things apart. Sometimes they'll put stuff back together. Sometimes they bake cookies or a cake for themselves. My 15 year old especially. His two best friends spend NO time in the kitchen at home, and they love making cookies. They get online and watch YouTube during the process, which is fine with me. I also put on movies - we're doing a MacGuyver marathon, so they're sitting around - watching, scheming, etc. Not ideal but (to me) preferable to too much time on a video game. I have a lot of boys and our house is a go-to house. I live walking distance from my brother, who also has teenage boys. My brother and I play soccer, so we often have pick up games between us in the yard. The boys always join in, even those who don't play soccer.

In my family, there'd be a compromise. If I were the newly married one, I'd fight for my family TBH. A compromise would be my bottom line. I'm not cutting out my family for my spouse. But I wouldn't marry someone who expected me to. As big as my family is, nobody has yet. There have been glitches but nothing that couldn't be compromised (as opposed to a pissing contest between family and spouse). My compromise would probably be they can come over with notice, or to have a standing day that the pool is available (and a day my spouse can be prepared or be gone - her choice). If I were the extended family, I'd stop coming over without warning and try to respect his new relationship. I'd probably call with some advance notice (at least a day's notice) and be sure to stay outside away from the house - no bathroom, fridge access, etc. unless invited in. That'd suck but I'd figure it would remove the in-laws headache about having me there. I'd assume the "public use" bit was an excuse to not come right out and say: I hate your family coming over unannounced whenever they want like you're a single guy. :lol: My family tends to be very involved with one another, but we let fiance(e)s and significant others know well in advance before they commit to marriage LOL. In my culture you truly do marry the family. Not everyone is cut out for us, but at least they know what they're in for! My answer wont be the popular one, but we're not leave-and-cleave types.

My 7 year old is my youngest, my only girl, and she cried when she learned she couldn't be a cub scout. She hadn't ever said she was looking foward to it, so we just assumed she knew she'd never be one. At that point we had some in cub scouts and some in boy scouts. To her 6 year old mind, she could be a cub scout because it wasn't BOY scouts. I guess she never noticed cub scouts being all boys LOL. Observation and situational awareness aren't her cuppa ;) She was devestated for weeks. Even worse than when she realized she couldn't stand to pee like her brothers. AHG has been okay, but they aren't as outdoorsy and hands on as she'd like. Fortunately her brothers make up for that by taking her camping and all that other stuff she's missing out on from cub scouts LOL. She LIVES for Boys' Life to come in the mail. Great idea to keep an eye out for it!

What a wonderful thing to hear! Milestones are always worth sharing, but this one is especially sweet. Here's to many more fun afternoons at the pool - you relaxing on the side and he enjoying his new friends :)

Hey, that's kind of cool! It'd be awesome if they celebrated with a library fine amnesty day LOL. Unless you're one of those people who turns stuff in on time. In which case, I hate me.

I have the sudden urge to re-read Animal Farm.

I always thought she came off a bit Stepford-y. Calm in a creepy way LOL. I've only seen a few episodes and am not really into them, so I don't keep up with or know much other than what I read here and at TWOP. I come from a family just a few kids shy of their number, and I have a large brood myself so the fascination has never been there. Not when I can watch Toddlers & Tiaras or Honey Boo Boo :coolgleamA: :lol: . I'm sure they're decent people doing the best they know how - same as the rest of us. No doubt they've learned along the way, are still learning as they go, and will have fans and haters alike. I think it's awesome you got into them. Nothing says summertime like getting hooked on a new-to-you show! I'm still trying to find one myself ...

LOVE the new paint color. It's calming yet invigorating at the same time :) How perfect for a schoolroom! I like those desks, too. I'm in the process of mentally re-doing our space. We currently have a long table but I was thinking of moving to desks now that they're getting older and (oddly) more easily distracted by each other. It's like they're regressing LOL. Are they an IKEA thing? I clicked through to your past schoolroom arrangments. I love that you've managed so many different configurations in a single room. Impressive! I get bored every year and feel a need to change things up, too. I just put it off until I give up on it though ;)