Interesting perspective. Assuming that the government can only spend ___% of dollars annually on education, and there are two choices only- 1-- is to spend it on children who need it most to help them function as an adult in society and earn a living OR 2- Spend it on a certain top percent of the population who are cognitively advanced. Being cognitively advanced also gives such children a better chance at making a living in the real world, as compared to the children with 'special needs'. The problems the government will run into are : a- What is the cut off for being 'gifted'?? I notice some states call 2% as gifted and some call 10% as gifted... b- Would spending on the top 10% help the top 2% or 0.01%? There have been posts on these boards bemoaning the fact that '10% of a school are considered gifted and my child is in the 0.01% and is bored....". c- This population of top 10% or 2% or 0.01% will need teachers of a certain calibre, if you will. Are there teachers who can serve the needs of the gifted (once gyou decide who the gifted are). d- Defining 'special needs' is relatively easy (neurological, physical basis)...but there is no one common definition of 'gifted'.(High IQ? high creativity? Divergent thinking but not high IQ? very driven but not creative or high IQ?) FWIW, I have a DD who has a high IQ ( how high I don't know) and whose needs are not met in a regular school...So i get what you are saying. But, my point is that 'who to spend this fixed amount of dollars allocated for education on' is complex, so attributing lack of gifted services to 'Americans are uncomfortable with innate intelligence or uncomfortable with anything that smacks of privilege' (an opinion which may or may not be true) is, to me, unfair.

BTW, I don't dispute the bolded (above) at all! Where in my post have I implied anything to the contrary? *head scratching smiley* Anyways....I meant to ask whether it is the duty of each and every individual to reach his/her potential. And what implications such a duty entails. To add, If I were a gifted child, and were told that I must develop my talents and 'gifts' to contribute to my country...I would feel like I was under a lot of pressure, kwim? I think you and I are attributing different meanings to the article.

I read the entire article, but the excerpt quoted disturbed me on many levels. Shortchange the country, how? How fair is the expectation that each gifted child will contribute significantly towards furthering the political and economic aims of a country as an adult? What if he/she doesn't want to reach his/her potential? Does that decrease the 'value' of a gifted person? Since the article talks about 'extra money and attention' diverted to 'low achievers' ('academic strugglers')... it brings us to the other question: Who deserves to be educated? To me, it's sounds like a very slippery slope and going down that path has lead to dangerous ideas in the past (eugenics movement). Frankly, the undertone that any individual, gifted or not, is to be considered as a instrument, rather than an end in himself/herself bothers me immensely. I understand where the authors are coming from, but I wish they wouldn't pit one group ('gifted' children) against the other ('average' children) to make a point. ETA: I don't live in the U.S. anymore, so don't have a dog in this fight. My thoughts on the article were more on the ideas suggested.

I have always felt different but as I'm getting older, I'm becoming more aware of the differences between me and others around me. I'm quirky, nerdy and not really interested in small talk or melodramatic conversations. The caveat is that I've not come across the textbook 'average' adult or child yet. ETA:Substituted a word

I agree! The tricky part is to find out how a over-critical person views 'criticism'. Does the criticism stem from a genuine intention of 'helping' or 'coaching'? Or does it stem from a place of insecurity with one's own abilities?

Firstly, IMHO, the idea of 'practice' has to be understood in its entirety. It is not 'drill and kill'. It is about doing something often enough and long enough for it to become an automatic habit. It isn't torture (although our children sometimes like to believe so :) )..its a necessity. It is necessary because without getting facts automatic, he might find Algebra uphill. I know some children do go on to Algebra without automaticity of Arithmetic facts, but, speaking for myself, I will insist on my DD become fluent on arithmetic computation before heading towards abstract math.(I used to think otherwise earlier, but my own experience and my DD's has made me acknowledge the value of automaticity through regular practice) I am careful to explain to my DD why she needs to practice and why I insist on it because if she catches that I am indecisive or ambiguous about the need for 'practice'...she will negotiate her way out of it. :D So, in short, I will go with the first choice- make him do most of the problems (maybe 5-6 instead of 10?) and give him extra problems the next day if and when he makes errors ( If accuracy is less than 80%)

First, :grouphug: . Maybe it's time you had a long and matter of fact conversation with your DH regarding his parenting skills or lack thereof? IME, overly critical individuals cannot take criticism gracefully, so they become defensive and angry, which defeats the whole purpose. IMHO, The only way to deal with such individuals, especially family members, is to explain the effects of their criticisms in as unemotional and patient manner as possible, Something on the lines of "DS seeks your approval all the time, and when you say____, it hurts him. And over time, I am afraid his relationship with you will be damaged beyond repair" Or something to that effect. You could also share some literature on super bright children who are also asynchronous, with him. As Maya Angelou says "When you know better, you do better". Hopefully, educating him on asynchrony will change his behavior towards DS....a good link to start with is http://www.sengifted.org/archives/articles/asynchronous-developmen

*I* did not know until DD's first grade teacher told me "She is very advanced and does not belong in the first grade". (I began homeschooling shortly thereafter) Everyone else apparently knew long before. By everyone, I mean grandparents and extended family and friends and neighbors. Being a first time mom, I attributed everything DD did to "Don't all children do that??" and reasoned away the compliments. In hindsight, there were signs (precocious development), but I really was clueless :o.

As a PP suggested, try a program different from what her siblings are working on. I second the suggestion of MEP. wrt only the Arithmetic computations/calculations part---I accelerated my DD by having her do half the computations required. i.e. 10 instead of 20. For every error, I had her practice one problem addressing that error. But we also went lateral with enrichment---She played with Sudoku, Kakuro... lot of board games- Monopoly, Connect 4, Blokus, Scotland Yard, Chess.. We also did Origami and watched a lot of math videos on Number sequences and number theory. I integrated history and science into Math by reading about Pythagoras, Euclid and closer home- Aryabhatta and Bhaskar. So, worksheets was only one strand of her math 'curriculum', so to speak. But, I have an only child and I don't know how do-able what I suggested is, given that you will be juggling the needs of her siblings.. HTH

Yes! :D

Welcome back to the forum Rivka! I say go with anyone of your options..they all seem like strong programs. I have first hand experience with AOPS Pre-A and have only read reviews about the rest. I used AOPS with DD, but supplemented with straightforward online worksheets on each topic for practice on alternate days. DD was meh about AOPS because she does not handle frustration well. I second guessed myself too along the way, but i am glad. I stuck to the plan as i can see that it gave her an excellent foundation. Since your DD has already been through the whole cycle of MEP, which i think in a lot of ways is similar to AOPS in the way they approach problem solving...i think she is primed for trial and error and struggling through puzzles. Mom to a non prodigy telling you that it will be just fine!

She is playing with ideas! That is a very productive activity and critical for her or any child's cognitive development. I say encourage her to go on rabbit trails...they are the stuff creative breakthroughs are made of! Btw, some of the most prominent psychologists have emphasised the importance of free, unstructured, child lead play here ...http://departments.weber.edu/chfam/4990a/Theory&play.html

APA, It seems to be the most preferred style here in the Sciences as well as the Humanities (above undergrad). Honestly, I struggle with APA because I find all the details (citations for websites/book/journals/periodicals/etc) hard to remember and have to keep 'owl' from purdue handy while writing.

Anything by Kate D'camillo is much loved around here. "The miraculous Journey of Edward Tulane" is a beautiful though sad story. Then there's -"because of Winn Dixie", "Tale of Desperaux".. How about Eva Ibbotson whose style of writing is light hearted and fun- "Which Witch" and "Not just a witch". HTH

Since you quoted me and chose to respond to me...and since I have found your posts rational and open minded, in the past... I am amazed that anyone living in a place only for 5 years is implied to be an authority on it and is encouraged on her so called honest assessment. What I see is an inaccurate understanding and low tolerance of a culture. In my world, it is called a prejudice and is called out as such...not a stereotype. And what is the meaning of 'not inherently negative' anyway? Words have been, and are always used with specific meaning. One meaning which the speaker intends for them to have...and the other which the listener will end up with. Of course, you or I cannot control how the listener will assign meaning. But, being in the domain of education and on this site, which is a classical education site, and which is based on critical thinking and analysis, and most of all -being sensitive and thoughtful, The least a poster can do is think of the consequences of her post that is highly likely to hurt other people. Claiming that words are not 'inherently negative' is a smoke screen. (For instance - i can claim that I am not being inherently harsh in this post..but if you choose to think I am harsh..well...) ETA: let's take any further conversation regarding this matter over PMs....Bowing out from this thread.

Quark is Malaysian, born and raised. Speaking for myself, it is disappointing when a non-native to a culture, who lives in that culture by choice, makes acerbic comments about it that are very likely to offend the native. In short, your words did offend a Malaysian. Maybe you did not intend to...but the fact is that posting unflattering comments on a culture or country (adopted ) without stopping to think of the multi-cultural ( racial, religious etc) demographic on these boards is...naive.

I can only imagine the constant struggle you go through, as a mom to 3 EG/PG children...Hats Off to you for being reflective and thoughtful at trying to meet their needs. Corollary being that as long as your children are aware of the dilemma you face as a mom, your relationship with them would not be jeopardized. But, I think the mother in the OP pushed her daughter erroneously thinking she (daughter) is capable of far more than she actually was. That might be the cause for the daughter feeling 'cheated' of her childhood. IMO, a totally different situation than yours.

Very sad situation..yet I hope it has a happy ending sometime in the future. The 20s are the time to understand and accept one's place in the world. Especially for cognitively advanced children who search for meaning and purpose in their lives, this can be a very stressful phase. Add academic pressure to the mix, and the angst is more acute. (BTDT)... Another thing is that parents often underestimate the power and influence they have over their children. And once the child moves away, physically away, and when she/he gains perspective that can only come from reflection, things can get very ugly very fast. I hope the mother gives her daughter the mental and physical space that the latter probably needs the most....

There are many many 25 yr olds in my class who also struggled with the above quoted part. They just could not fathom that there are multiple perspectives on any matter. It has been really interesting to see the maturing, if you will, of their opinions and beliefs last year through some heavy duty reading.

It's rather interesting that suddenly (to me) there are a good number of posts pertaining to philosophical questions on knowledge and education on the boards :coolgleamA: ...

FTR, I am studying Sociology & Philosophy (Graduate level) and find it very very meaningful. For instance, the (Weberian) concept of 'Verstehen'..made me question some of my beliefs and opinions. But, I wonder how, the abstract and complex ideas in humanities, could be included in schools as a part of the curriculum without diluting or dumbing the concepts down. ETA: we posted at the same time...

I'm glad you brought this question up. I was/am getting the impression on these boards, that Humanities is somehow...inferior (maybe not the right word?) to STEM. I do not have a STEM background but I moved from STEM (Math, Chemistry) to Economics/Finance in my Bachelors. I found Economics/Finance to be as challenging, if not more, than Math at the Undergrad level. (Math inclusive of Calculus) Right now, I'm struggling with Sociology because of my inherent STEM mindset. I'm so used to objectivity and found the subjectivity in Humanities (Sociology, History and Psychology) very challenging. It will be awesome if someone from the Humanities shares their perspective!

I'm born and raised Indian and the big difference that an Indian education makes, in terms of competitive education, is the number of languages we are expected to be fluent in (as much as 3) as a part of academics and the kind of pressure (performance pressure) the students are exposed to. By default, all mothers are 'tiger-mothers'. Slowly, though, attitudes are changing and the pendulum is swinging the other way. To add--Not to give my daughter a competitive advantage, but just to give her the skills which I think are essential as an adult..I'm teaching her soft skills- how to talk without rambling, how to read carefully, how to write succinctly and lucidly and later- how to construct an argument. I'm hoping that once she develops the ability to focus and gains clarity in thought, everything else will fall in place.

I could be completely off the mark, but this is my take on that quote. From my experience with reading Adler and my recent study on epistemology, I guess he is referring, albeit vaguely, to knowledge- 1- what it is to truly 'know' something, the difference between 'know' and 'understand' (because I could know something and not really understand it), 2- How do we gain or acquire knowledge? Do we acquire it from reading/pondering over something new? 3- In the above quote, Adler argues that understanding can only happen through a struggle with unknown ideas or concepts (introduced to the reader by the writer) and sometimes those ideas/concepts do not make immediate sense. He adds that once the understanding is reached, any information pertaining to that idea will be only adding to information and not to more understanding. The assumption he makes it that most writers/authors build ideas/concepts that are intelligent /rational /logical.

I confess I feel guilty when DD comes back from school and asks me "When will she/they teach me something I don't know"?. I confess I let people-who-I-barely-know think she is a very short 10-11 yr old. I confess I find (most) Young Adult books more interesting, layered, complex than (most) current fiction for adults. I confess I have let DD's academics slide big time as I don't want to widen the gap between her and her peers anymore. I confess I don't talk about my DD to anyone, except DH and some online/IRL friends.