I think at some point we- society, whoever- need to mature beyond the need to identify really strongly with characteristics like our sexual preference or our status as a downtrodden single mum or a black or a whatever makes us a subcatagory or set aside from the majority- get over it so to speak. We can acknowledge it, work with it, but we dont have to make such a big deal about it- although I do understand we probably need to go through a STAGE of making a big deal about it if society is prejudiced against us for our minority characteristic. but then, there is a point you Get Over needing to constantly prove a point- probably when you stop being angry at how much you were hurt by the societal prejudices. I had a gay school friend- boy- and I have a gay brother-in-law and I guess its brothers-in-law (the kids have two uncles there instead of the normal uncle and aunt). All these people have outgrown the need to prove a point, to dress or talk in a particular way, or in any way identify strongly with their gayness, so it's just No Big Deal. If they wanted my acceptance and approval, I would probably recoil, but they don't, so they naturally have it because I don't need to relate to them through the filter of their identity as gay men- I can just relate to them as men, as humans. I think all these things- celebration of minorities, Gay Parades- have a healing purpose, and are valid in that context. Its ok for me, as long as they are not shoving it in my face or guilt tripping me. At some point though, the identity just becomes a chain around the neck, and we need to just get back to being ordinary people. But people will do what they need to do until they no longer feel the need to do it.

Jessica, That sounds really hard, and it's hard to know exactly who you are alluding to, but I wonder if its a lesson also for you to learn who and what you CAN control, and let the rest go to some extent? Because if you cant change them, and you can't, you are only going to hurt yourself trying to, and then you will be unhappy. I don't know if you are referring to your husband in the lack of support, too, and if you are, I understand that it must be especially difficult not to have his support. I don't want to sound like I am diminishing the realness and difficulty of your situation, but also remember the many children who have no grandparents at all. My kids see my parents every 3 years or so, and dh's mother more frequently (every 3-4 months), but she is getting old and she still cares for her severely disabled daughter, so she has never had much energy for my kids. So in effect, they see very little of grandparents. So, no one spoils them like that, but they also don't get the love and attention of extended family, at all- we are it- and I have never had one hour of babysitting from either grandparents, ever. Of course, it has it's blessings. We don't have the sort of issues you are having. Actually, that's not true. Dh's mum is a clean freak who still watches her weight at 75, has had plastic surgery several times, looks 20 years younger, and is basically tremendously image conscious. She has mentioned to my completely normal weighted daughter SEVERAL times over the years that she better not eat to much of the cake she has just given her in case she gets fat, and made fun of her non-existent stomach in a teasing way. We ignore it- this woman is a dragon when crossed- and then we undo the potential damage on the way home in the car by talking to dd, who has quite good self image and self worth, so its not an area her well meaning grandmother is going to influence her in. You have wonderfully high ideals, and such a pure heart....but somewhere along the line, maybe you are not allowing other people to be themselves, and accepting that they are doing what they see is best. If you set yourself against them, it will hurt everyone. But I may be off base, please forgive me- I can't tell. I don't know how extreme the situation is. It would probably upset me too. Perhaps not all of your son's behaviour is related to his being spoilt by others, though...he may actually be more of a "boy". My daughter, firstborn, was easy and well behaved, my son, 2nd born, was not. He threw massive tantrums frequently in public and we were quite strict, but often helpless to do much to stop them. We didn't parent them any differently, but they are very different. I cant count the number of times my husband carried his bawling, screaming son over his shoulder in public, pretending this was completely normal carrying on with his errands or whatever as if this was completely normal, smiling at people's judgements. He truly believes in disciplining kids, but there are times, with some kids, you just rid the wave and wait for it to pass, and accept your human helplessness. I am finding as my kids become teenagers, I am having to become the bad guy more often. We have a wonderful connection, but they keep wanting to stretch the boundaries waaaaay beyond the beyond, and they act most surprised and hurt that I turn from nice, generous mum into unbudgable, bad mum. It's a part of parenting. Their friends get to do this or that, they tell me. I don't care, say I. Being the bad guy seems to be part of parenting, and it's ok. If they are truly undermining you behind your back..... I would become a she lion, myself...but sometimes thats not the way to handle it, and you just have to let go and be the peacemaker for your children's sake.

Well I differ from most here. If I was doing science again with kids those ages, I would take a literary and nature-discovery approach much more than an academic, sciencey approach. I would prefer to nurture the love of the world around us first. I personally have not found a science course I like though, but I would take a CM approach next time, as I now am with my kids. But it could also be because my own kids are more literary than sciencey- so they haven't responded well to an academic, hard science approach. Only now that they have an actual science teacher who is passionate and an excellent teacher, are they warming up to science. And it's still not something they read about in their spare time or anything- they are not the sort of kids who do experiments in their free time. I think I am more of the mindset that really inspiring a curiosity for the world around them, rather than abstract concepts and knowledge, is more important. For my kids, facts clothed in a more literary, interesting to read, personable style are far more digestible. But then, they have never liked encyclopedias, or Usborne books, either- thats why most science courses just seem too dry to them. They simply are. Edited to add: as kids get older, of course doing more academic science may- may- be necessary for them. But, I am referring to the smaller kids. I don't think it is necessary and for many, it may actually deter an interest in the subject rather than inspire it. The whole idea of teaching little kids earlier and earlier what they could easily learn later, just leaves me cold. If I were Christian, I would use the Apologia books in a flash. They are the closest modern books that teach the way I prefer. However they are way too christian for us, unfortunately.

I just can't, to the extent that I would ideally like to, so I work within my own limitations. I do usually have some kids literature next to my bed to stay ahead to some extent- so I have pre-read some of their books- and it provides good bedtime reading- in fact, sometimes it is really good reading and I can't put the book down. I also have an afternoon rest time, and I usually do nap, but I also read during that time, and I am more awake then than the evenings so it is a better time for me to "study" more difficult books. And yes, I do use all of our holiday times to read ahead a bit. But its never really enough, so we just make do.

I am by no means rigidly consistent, but I am better than I was when I had fallen off the wagon and stopped the emails. For me, just glancing at the zone for the week, and noticing the chores, makes such a difference. Even if I don't do them, lol. I have been purging the schoolroom instead of the bathroom. It was going to be more benefit to me, the bathroom is ok, and I don't get the energy to purge the schoolroom very often so I figured I better ride the wave while it was here :)

Lol, I have read what SWB says about it before, but it does presuppose that kids will CARE enough to analyse their own awkward sounding sentences, lol. My preference is for a more intuitive approach, personally, but I realise that many prefer the more analytical one. I have had my kids learn diagramming for years, lol, and I am just dropping it now. They can do basic diagramming, but once it gets more complicated, it starts taking a lot of time. Time I would rather spend on other things. I have recently realised that there is more difference between the American and Australian/British grammar that I understood before. We (in Australia) simply use less punctuation. Less commas, in particular. We use what is needed minimally to understand something, for it to make sense. I have been pushing my kids so hard with grammar, American style, and I will continue to have them learn it and mark up sentences, but I have realised I am teaching them more than they need to learn. My 12yo son has been reading a book recently that is printed in America and he keeps coming and telling me its really hard for him to read it because they keep putting commas in strange places, where it doesn't feel natural, and he is getting distracted by it. I hadn't really realised it before, but this is the 2nd time in the last week I have come across this issue. So I am dropping the sentence diagramming at least, because I have realised it's not the same for us, anyway.

I have recently made this one up- it's a Book of Centures, so each double page is 100 years, all the way through. http://simplycharlottemason.com/timesavers/boc/ I have put it in a 3 ring binder. I put my kids writing assignmnents in the appropriate sections. However, can I just say I think its easy to get hung up on such things and I personally think I prefer timelines that change (I have the Sonlight Book of TIme)at least for older kids, because I just cant fit enough figures and information on one double page for a while year (1900-2000) or even 2 or 3 pages for the Rennaissance period. Its a serious practical consideration! I personally feel that older children, at least, are quite capable of not getting confused, just because it breaks down to every 50 years from 1 AD to 1800 AD or whatever, and every 10 years from then till now. Maybe for the grammar stage its best to have a visual wall timeline so that they "get" that we know a lot more about the more recent times- but once the kids are older, it becomes a very practical consideration whether to do it the same way. Just my 2 cents.

I like all the planning stuff, myself. If I didn't? I would do the bare minimum, choose curriculum, including memory work, that is just pick up and go, and make it much easier for myself. I am not into that much self sacrifice, lol. I also know from experience that a certain amount of planning during holidays makes the term go much more efficiently and therefore give me more "me time" during the term because I am not running around like a chook with my head cut off (maybe thats an Aussie saying? ). But, there is a whole world of compromise between intensive planning and a dvd curriculum. Maybe you are doing it harder than it needs to be?

How much vinegar are you using? And what type? I would use natural apple cider vinegar rather than cheap white vinegar. I use lemon juice though, instead. And, 1 tablespoon of vinegar/lemon juice to about a litre of water. That's very dilute- maybe you are using too much, and that's why there's too much smell? And are you rinsing again AFTER putting the dilute rinse through your hair? You are meant to. I think the smell would be quite faint, and would disappear quite quickly, if you did this.

My entry into art appreciation was an ex boyfriend who was an artist, and who used to take me into bookshops and browse through huge coffee table art books and show me stuff and talk for hours. He was passionate about Impressionism and I learned a lot from him- I dabbled in art too and it was fun to try different techniques, particularly playing with light. But he also told me stories about the artists and the background of Impressionism, and that is what opened my eyes to a lot of art. Just by knowing, having basic familiarity with one singe area- Impressionism- not in an academic sense but learning about Monet and Seurat and light and rebellion and Picasso and what the artists were thinking and where they were coming from- I feel it opened doors for me into all painting, because it gave me a reference point, even if I move backwards in time to earlier works. Maybe there is a lecture series you could listen to, or a book you could read, that would give the stories behind the art and the artists and why they painted what they painted, because for me, context is everything, even though I can also appreciate beauty in art. Without the background, it's just pretty colours and shapes to me, and I may or may not find them aesthetic. I am still no art connessoir, but I do feel passionate about some art, so I guess I have a relationship with it, an entry into it, in a way I certainly didn't gain in childhood.

Our kids were 3 and 5 years old. I had been the one resisting marriage. I was commitment phobic. I had refused him before, even after first saying yes, poor man. We moved house, and I started to have these fantasies of getting married in the lovely garden, and I knew something in me was ready, so I asked him! We were driving in the car, and we stopped at stoplights just as I asked him- as the lights turned green he said it was a sign, and yes!

:iagree: It's silly Phred feels the need to defend himself for his opinion, which the OP asked for- this is a public board- and she didn't ask for Christian points of view only, so she didn't get them (many of us have felt as the OP feels and many of us have gone in different directions with it). Phred was attacked for expressing what was obviously his opinion, as is everything everyone writes here. I think he was attacked because of the content of his opinion, rather than the fact he didn't qualify it with "this is my opinion". Isn't that ad hominim or something? You can't argue with an opinion, but if you attack the one who expresses the opinion that touches/disturbs something in you, you just expose your own unwillingness to stay clean and honest in the debate. Phred, opinionate on.

Hi Laura, It wasn't me that didn't like it :) My daughter did Cambridge Latin for 3 years in a small class with other homeschoolers. Members dropped out, she stayed, she enjoyed it...but at the end of 3 years she had only moved into the first half of book 2, and I knew she was capable of so much more. The teacher for some reason believed in going incredibly slowly, and set only a small amount of homework. But he covered the culture and history of Ancient times as well, and even threw in bits of Ancient Greek language. He was fascinating (I stayed and enjoyed the classes too). She enjoyed it because she thrives in small classes with teachers who love their subject. She is a very social creature. So I decided I could improve on all that and enrolled her in Book 3 of Cambridge online. All in all it's about the same money as the class, just all at once. And it freed up some time for us. But then I kind of left her to it, just looked over her shoulder every now and then to make sure it was getting done. The thing is the Independent Learning manuals only ask you to send in one assignment each week, but you complete several. So I am pretty sure she skimped on the ones she didn't need to send in. The other thing is, although I don't mind how the grammar is taught in Cambridge- it worked well in the class where the teacher moved slowly and went over and over the grammar as they went- when it came to self motivation to really understand and remember the new grammar- she just wasn't motivated, and I had kind of taken my hands off and left it to her since I was paying through the nose for a tutor. I don't think you would have the same problem coming over from Latin Prep because Calvin would already have the grammar pretty well learned. If I want her to continue with Latin I will have to go over the grammar with her-the recent stuff is not solid. Basically, I should never have expected her to have the motivation to really push herself, as she is not naturally a solo learner. I don't expect my son to learn it himself- I do it with him, me holding the answers, similar to you, whether he is doing Cambridge or Latin Prep- but I somehow expected more maturity and motivation from my daughter, and that was my mistake, not hers, I think. I think there needs to be a genuine self motivation to learn a language- any language- online, or alone. I should have watched more closely- I was relying on her desire for approval from her tutor, but it's hard to care when the tutor is in another country! I personally like the way Cambridge is set up, and I like the Independent Learning Manuals, but like all Latin, you need to learn the grammar. I think your situation will be quite different from ours. It is only my son who has used Latin Prep, not my daughter.

Dh is undiagnosed but seems to fit all the criteria.(very difficult child, expelled from 3 preschools, expelled from highschool, parents put him in boarding school just down the road to get rid of him.) He is adamant about it being the way he is and he wouldn't change it for anything...he is very entrepreneurial and an original thinker and has had a very interesting life. Yes, I find it difficult that he has such a short attention span etc, but I wouldn't want him to change and repress those qualities for me, because you lose more than the negative side effects. His daughter (my stepdaughter) was diagnosed as a child and her mother put her on the drugs all through her teens, secretly, because her dad was very much against the drugs. It certainly didn't help her schoolwork and she has gone off the drugs for a couple of years now, but still has the emotional development of someone at least 5 years younger. We don't know what the drugs did. Both her and her mum now severely repent about putting her on the drugs. The long term effects on the brain and neural development during childhood/teens are still so unknown. Anyway, obviously I am anti the drugs to some extent, but an adult needs to make that decision for themselves after doing the research themselves.

I think you can do a bit of both- in homeschooling situations, it is often the parent who has to facilitate and make friendships happen. I know I worked really hard to have ym kids feel at home in the homeschooling community, and make friends there, when I took them out of school. I knew it was a key to our success at homeschooling as a lifestyle. But there is only so much you can do. I don't think you can facilitate lifelong friendships, you can only do what you can now, and then let it be. My son has a homeschooling "best"friend who lives in the country on a farm- a long way away- but we make it happen. His day to day friends are the kids in the street and although they are very important to him now, I very much doubt they will be lifelong buddies. I would be more concerned with making sure my kids had the skills to make friends, rather than worry about whether the friends would be lifelong. I know my friends from childhood have very different values to me today (actually, we had different values then, too, but enough in common at the time) and I have simply outgrown the relationship we once had. I think that's common. "Old" friends can be deep ones, but not necessarily and I wouldn't idealise it. The ability to connect with people, to not sell out but be friendly and open and genuine, and step out of yourself enough to make a friend, is a more valuable thing to learn, and I don't think we can control the outcome of that for our children, or for ourselves for that matter.

Others is 3 beautiful rabbits. Oh, and I forgot the chickens. 3 chooks.

My dd14 basically only texts her friends because it's cheaper than phoning. It's one of the many ways she stays in contact with her peers, and I support it- she is a very social kid. I haven't felt it to be negative in any way, actually. She pays all her phone bills herself.

I think people don't like to not know, it's too scary to live in "I don't know", the Great Mystery of what on earth are we doing here, so they create a God and lots of stories and beliefs to comfort themselves- its been going on a long time, and "our" story of a Christian God (who is a personification of ourselves but with much more power over everything) seems more civilized than the Ancient Greek's polytheistic religion, but it's all the same to me. I do think "I don't know" is the bottom line and anything else is conjecture. I do know that there is a benevolent force in the world, (which I personally don't mind calling God, but its not Christian to me) that grows plants and animals and makes babies have ten adorable fingers and toes, and most tragedy is only tragedy from a very personal point of view. Most suffering is created by beliefs and attitudes of non acceptance of how things actually are. The fact is, the world has gone on for a long time- death, pain, suffering- and within that, there is also a massive amount of beauty and good and the capacity to love and be open to the good, or to shut down and defend and suffer, and see life through those filters. Its up to us. We think its personal, but it isn't. All we have any control over is our own responses. I think its childish to think we can manipulate a God up there with our beliefs in him or our prayers. But, the way the universe actually works is by itself incredibly mysterious and amazing, far beyond our comprehension. Awesome. Just realising our small place in it helps keep suffering in perspective. None of it is "personal" although it feels like it. It's all just the way the universe functions. Creation, destruction, on and on. If we try and only love some parts, and reject others, we suffer. Disclaimer, just my point of view, etc etc etc

Life, although I have in the back of my mind to write a curriculum for the homeschool market :)

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I bought HTPLus and I have tried to make it work for me so many times. I find it complicated, I dont need to track attendance or have that much detail. I always go back to pen and paper, and my own schedules made in Word. I also don't like the printout look of the daily or weekly schedule- its not aesthetically pleasing to me. If I had younger kids who could make use of my lesson plans for the older, i would probably try harder to make it work for me, but I dont.

I much prefer "just reading" along with oral and written narrations. Oral narrations often jsut take the form of the cihld telling me excitedly what is gong on in their story, because I am showing interest. I often wonder why people don't make more use of and discuss socratic dialogue as recommended in TWTM. Its so easy to do, to ask some relevent questions. By Logic stage I think its a good idea to be looking a little more deeply at at least one book at a time, but for us it still usually takes the form of oral narrations, ocasionally a written assignment, and some specific quesitons and guided discussion. We did use Literary Lessons from Lord of the Rings last year and it was good, and I don't regret it at all, however I find literary guides in general turn my kids off reading, wheras discussing with them engages them further. So sometimes I look online for some ideas of themes etc so that I can intelligently guide a discussion- we are about to read The Bronze Bow for literature and I have a list of questions to ask , to provoke conversation and deeper thinking, but it will still appear very informal to the kids, even though I have done research for it.

I used it with older kids and we read lots of historical fiction, did outlining and some essays, and left it at that.

I am simply using less and less curriculum, and more and more living books. I have change dover to Ambleside and a CM approach. I make up my own writing assignments, even though I own half a dozen writing curriculum on my shelves. We read, we discuss, we write. It's not rocket science. And for science, I outsource! We use a textbook for maths.

Oh, I can relate. I am not really a type A driven person but I am fairly academically minded and my son just isnt, he has learning difficulties, he challenges me a lot. All my high classical ideals have gone through so many transformations! This year, I am thrilled because his handwriting has improved to now being clearly legible, and he frequently writes assignments of one page instead of half. It's a big deal. He is 12. I think you probably know already that you need to just love him completely for who he is and not who you want him to be. I know its been hard for me but for me getting a diagnosis of dyslexia for my son helped me to stop giving us both a hard time. I thought I was a bad teacher and he was lazy, he thought he was stupid however many times I told him he wasnt, now I know it's not either of us, it's just how it is and its ok just how it is. There's nothing wrong with just being how you are. Not everyone is going to be a scholar. I also have a bright academically minded daughter who is similar to me, so I know how you feel. I think lots of cuddles and unconditional loving, separate from schoolwork, helps me maintain a good relationship with my son, as well as keeping my sonse of humour as much as possible- we have clashed a lot over school although its much better since I really did back off a lot, stopped "pushing" as I call it, and we changed over to using Ambleside. He loves to read, so by capitalising on his strength, we get everything else done too. I think you adjust your expectations by just seeing and loving your son as he is, whether he ever does well academically or not. Its not the most important thing in the world, how well he does on test scores, ever- your relationship to him is far more important. These are the years you and he will look back on. I came to a crunch about 9 months ago now, and realised I wasn't going to look back on these years with my son with much fondness, because I was constantly trying to get him to be something slightly different from who he is, and I thought I was doing it for him. But no, looking deeper, I wanted him to look good for me, at least partly. I went through quite a change and he felt it. I don't sacrifice today for tomorrow, for the future. This is the day I have with my son, and this is the day we need to live fully, with no regrets.This is life, not a practice run. I do use discipline and structure, but we finish school quicker than before, we read more books, we do nature walks, we just don't stress as much, and we are happier.